#13 - Josue Pavón - Celtics Writer for Heavy.com

Craig D'Alessandro: 0:24

On this episode of the NSW podcast, Ray Shawn Buchanan and Bob Kelly sit down just wait Pavone Celtics MBA writer for heavy calm, and Celtics reporter for clsm media to discuss the Celtics 2020 season, their disappointing season ending series in the Eastern Conference Finals versus the Miami Heat and what moves can be made to avoid a repeat in 2021 later in the interview, just wait we'll explain what it's like to do a podcast with one of Boston's most beloved Celtics icons Cedric Maxwell, but first This episode is being brought to you by box Oh crafts box Oh is an arts and crafts focus kids subscription box box Oh as a parent run company that combines creativity and convenience in one monthly package delivered right to your door boxes premier box box Oh holidays contains four separate art projects to get you and your family into the holiday spirit. Whether it's Halloween, Hanukkah, or Easter, they've got you covered with holiday fun. Box. Oh, we can't wait to see you create checkout boxercraft calm and exclusively to our listeners enter promo code sn SW for 10% off your first order. That's b o x o crafts.com promo code sn SW SW podcast is a one hour weekly two hour monthly podcast recapping the biggest stories in the world of sports with a New England flavor. The show notes and transcript of today's episode can be found in the description box below, as well as our WordPress and buzzsprout pages. If you're new to the show, consider subscribing. It's the easiest way to see when we publish new episodes. We are on iTunes, Spotify, Google and wherever you get your podcast. Be sure to rate us and leave a review of any of our shows. We always appreciate your feedback. And be sure to follow us on all of our social medias. All of our links will be in the show notes. And now this is the SMS w podcast but it's all relative.

Rayshawn Buchanan: 2:26

Hello and welcome to Episode 13 of this podcast. I'm rashami cannon alongside Bob Kelly. Today we have a special guest with us on the show. He covers a subject so heavy.com He is the co host of the second national podcast and the founder and co host of the cosmos food blog and podcast. We'll have all those links in the show notes below. He has also contributed to the garden report and as a southern Insider for CL ns media that being said I actually do some of the others just like Yvonne what's going on magnetic

Josue Pavon: 2:55

guys appreciate the invite. How are we

Rayshawn Buchanan: 2:56

doing? Good? Yes. Good. Good to have you on man. So just just before we start man just how's everything been during this quarantine season as has been? I know it's been crazy but you know

Josue Pavon: 3:06

yeah it's weird now right i mean right now we're supposed to be getting ready for a brand new regular season is the complete opposite is the beginning of the offseason it should be an entertaining offseason we'll see I'm talking generally speaking with the with the NBA. I do think the Celtics have a couple moves up their sleeves but I don't think it'll be anything huge. I'm sure we'll get into it soon. But yeah, it's been it's been quite a transition it's just different you know Elisa changing and supposed to be a complete different time. But I guess that's sort of puts the year 2020 to nutshell managers in different time I guess but they

Rayshawn Buchanan: 3:44

couldn't couldn't agree more. So

Josue Pavon: 3:46

our parents right now, you know, I check in with them of course, and things have been good. No friends and family. Luckily, guys, everyone's been healthy.

Rayshawn Buchanan: 3:54

Yeah, no, that's good to know. Same thing over here, man. It's been funny. It's been been crazy. But you know, thankfully to have people still safe and still sound so you just have to continue to stay that way. So sounds like you hit his home self. So let's get into it. Man. Sound good.

Josue Pavon: 4:08

Yeah, man. See, I can't even see I'm already talking about the cheese.

Rayshawn Buchanan: 4:12

Yeah, no, that's cool. That's what we're gonna do. That's my favorite thing to do, man. So, Alright, so the first question I want to ask is, what's the greatest you would get at the 2019 2020 Celtics? And who was the MVP of the Celtics for you this year?

Josue Pavon: 4:27

Oh, man, it's a good question. Um, a great I will give them I'm gonna give them you know what it was? It was c plus a friendly c plus a an MVP. I'm gonna say Jason Tatum for sure. Yeah.

Rayshawn Buchanan: 4:43

Yeah, I'm like, that's, that's, that's a little lower than I thought. But I mean, at me if some someone I mean, Bob, Bob knows, as Craig knows as to but, you know, I was killing them in the postseason. You know, I was I was so mad with how they performed the certain spots. So I mean, now you know, just talking to you right now and hearing you say see plus, I'm actually I'm actually gonna agree with you because this team with the talent they have, obviously, you know, Hayward and you know, smart kemba you know, all that talent is there on the top six or top seven guys. They underperformed and there's no other way to put it like, Oh, you know, these guys are young. Okay. Well, how long are we going to say that, you know, I'm saying so, um, I think I tend to agree with you that, you know, c plus is probably an accurate assessment of what happened this year.

Josue Pavon: 5:30

Yeah, I mean, well, the reason why I don't give them you know, I wouldn't give them a higher grade than a C plus is because the way things unfolded. I mean, obviously, the injuries played a part here. This team wasn't healthy. It came at a really bad times. Gordon Hayward, in my opinion. I mean, there isn't a better fourth option out there in the NBA. I mean, it's just his numbers across the board, just completely were overlooked what he was doing before the playoffs, or at least before the bubble. And I think that was a humongous blow. Obviously, we saw what happened throughout the course of the Toronto series and how important he could have been at ensure that Southern survived that but they were outmatched in my opinion. I mean, I I to some degree, they underperforms because of their execution and because they had so many golden opportunities, big reason why c plus comes into play there. I mean, I can't give a team like the Celtics A B that had a fourth quarter lead and every single game in the US to Congress file that I'm not like exaggerating, like every single game there was a fourth quarter and of course there was a double digit lead more than a couple of times for the Celtics, you know, games that were in their hands, and they essentially just let fly away but again to credit the Miami Heat. They did outplayed the sub there's let's not kid ourselves here. I can't I don't fall in the narrative of these guys shot themselves in the foot. Yeah, they did, to a certain extent Sure. Experienced plate apart. Whereas Yeah, they're they're younger than most. But their experience these guys have been there before, right. They've been in this situation. Specifically, we look at 2018. How far, Jalen brown Jason Tatum were what who Jason Tatum is now compared to who he was back then who they were facing and that at that time, all those all that experience, you take all that into account, and you're like, Well, wait a minute here. Could we have asked or could the sellers have asked for a better path to the NBA Finals? It just didn't get better than that. If someone would have told me a month before the playoffs started, hey, this is gonna beat the Raptors. They're gonna beat the Philadelphia sixers in the first round, but I'm not quite sure how they're gonna do against Miami. Oh. I mean, I like the heat. You know, I was a huge fan of the Miami Heat, especially when they added those two guys, right before the shutdown. But the Celtics Let's face it, there was a favorite in that team in that series, excuse me, you know?

Rob Kelly: 7:47

So, so I have a follow up questions that now I'm with you with the underperformed in the reason and how they underperformed is why that C plus comes into play because to me, well, basketball effort or a lack of effort is an inexcusable thing. So I'm definitely with you on that. If they had played the Bucs in that Eastern Conference Finals, would that grade be higher for you?

Josue Pavon: 8:11

No, no, no what believe not I I thought that maybe he was gonna be a tougher challenge in the books. I just thought overall. They just had so many. Here's the biggest reason why I didn't believe in the Bucs to the playoffs because I'm like Eric Bledsoe you know a diligent og with Magento always available are always trying to add Yeah, you know, do I trust these guys do I trust these shooters and I didn't I don't trust these guys. And sure Chris Middleton is gonna give you some heck of you know a couple of performances throughout the course of us best of seven series but I'm like is that enough though? And the Miami he just defensively so many obstacles there for the Celtics, whether we're talking, you know, evil dolla, you know, motivated dragons, which I think is key to emphasize that word motivated I love drawbridge over kemba one on one you know, because motivated dragons is a different kind of player which just made the heat a completely different team out of bio i thought was a humongous advantage for the Miami Heat, you know, compared to Brook Lopez and again, it's not a knock to Brook Lopez but the running gun the way I can defend this transition, I mean, it was just a much tougher matchup In my opinion, the identity of the Miami Heat I just thought I didn't like I would prefer this for the toughest chances I would have preferred them to see to see them play the Bucs honestly

Rayshawn Buchanan: 9:33

Yeah, I mean I think it's this one that's sad cuz I feel like a lot of people felt the other way like they wanted the clinical easy way out you know and face Miami you know now I mean Milwaukee You know, I think people were basing it off last year where you know, they essentially took this out of their five but we were not to go down that rabbit hole and talk about the chemistry issues that team has so the stuff that we carry and you know just you know Tatum not getting the shots of brown you know feeling comfortable in the offense and just being mad that he was getting more butts from these than they probably should have coming off that that ankle injury but um, I don't reason why the Milwaukee would have been tougher is because they they just packed the pain you know, they shoot a lot by filler they pack the paint enough that you know, they would have just kept attacking and you know, the reps call everything for you honest in my opinion, so not to sound like that guy, but I'm going to be that guy like I felt like he gets everything All so let's see, he runs down the middle This is like oh, okay he's a 611 Russell Westbrook and he just you know people just run out the way he when he attacked So, um, and I said they do shoot but like you said to me there is Jonathan and a bunch of role players like metal fencing me as a role player to arm that 30 stag I think was a game for against Milwaukee. I mean just Miami when he had 36 and it's like, Whoa, why can't you do that against other you know, when the officers they're like when I get on the team? He doesn't so um, I don't know it's kind of interesting dynamic with them. For sure. Um, so that kind of leads in to cut up so kind of keeping the topic where Miami so hypothetically, speaking of the Southwest, they got past Miami, you know, how do you think they would have fared I guess the Lakers in the finals?

Josue Pavon: 11:10

honestly think you probably would have thought the same thing. Lakers and six, maybe five? Maybe? I mean, again, the matchup instead of BAM Adebayo we're talking Anthony Davis. You know what I mean? I just don't I didn't like this episode. Chances are that and it's funny. my mic goes back. If they had a shot. He thinks this other team had a song like Max was like, You're insane. Listen, the series against the Raptors. I thought this team had turned a significant corner that would get them to the NBA Finals. I really did. Whether the market busts waiting for them or whether it was the Miami Heat I'm like they learned so much about themselves throughout that specifically Jason Tatum. Um, you know, it's you can pinpoint so many things that you know, if they went differently and that best of seven series because the he that the sub is when that series, but game one, bam, out of bio, like one of the greatest blocks ever, like seriously, you can't make that stuff up. And then people complain of Oh, Jason Tatum. Well, the last possession No, no, it's true. The last possession, that possession, he did exactly what you want him to do. He just set up for the three, he didn't back down, bam, out of Bibles coming down. It was toe to toe man verse, man, you know, man on man, and he lost. And, you know, let's say that he converts that layup so let's go to NBA Finals, maybe, you know, there was just so many of those situations. But again, in the end, there's always had a lot of games when they could have won. And that's, that's probably not even one that tops the list, I guess. Game one is up there. But there was a couple of other winnable games as well. Go right through the fingertips.

Rob Kelly: 12:43

Yeah, that's, that's what surprised me most about that E series is you really did see and I said it so much on the show. throughout that entire series, like you really did see that team championship mentality that that they were backed up against the ball so many times they had, they had absolute nut checks, like listen, your everything is against you. What are you made of in each time they showed up and did their thing? And he gets a heat series and it was just the complete opposite. So but then with the Lakers, I agree with you there when it comes to Anthony Davis. I think he would have krait created such crazy matchup problems now. Do you think there would have been even when it came to LeBron, do you think he would have absolutely dominated this team in that final like he did to the heat?

Josue Pavon: 13:33

Um, I think he would have saw probably the same, maybe a little less, but not not much. I think they did a really good job. A really good job but and in comparison to what LeBron typically does because the Boston Celtics, they fared well in those two games against him, or at least in general, you know, I just think the Celtics defense has just taken another notch compared to what we've seen, and it's sort of hard to gauge I mean, the easiest game to look at would be the overtime loss that happened. MLA was actually there for that one heck of a game in my opinion. It's probably it's up there probably probably my favorite performance from Jason Tatum. But um, they impressed me how they defended, you know, the Celtics that of course, the Lakers and LeBron James like, he has a really good memory he remembers getting you'll remember a 35 or I forget what do I think was a 40 point blowout at the southeast gave him a few months before so. I was expecting

Rayshawn Buchanan: 14:27

something. Yeah, that was on MLK Day. It was crazy.

Josue Pavon: 14:29

Yeah, yeah. It was supposed to get us a you know, they go they push it to overtime. Tatum, you know, 41 points, career high, all that good stuff. So I love the Celtics match. You know, I love the way they defend him. But just overall, as a matchup Celtics first Lakers, I just think Anthony Davis puts them over the top for sure.

Rob Kelly: 14:50

Yeah, for sure. Now not to keep rehashing that heartbreaking season that we just had. But as we know, that's over. So we're gonna ask you some GM questions of what you think the Celtics need to do in order to get to that spot that we think they should be at, which is in the NBA Finals. Does that sound good? All right,

Josue Pavon: 15:10

man, I don't know.

Rob Kelly: 15:11

Alright, so So first question. facts, flow. So that's that we'd write into my next question. So when it comes to this draft, what do you think the Celtics strategy should be Now we all know they need a big man. So they acquire that as a young big man. Or did they take those pics? Plus a couple players? Maybe go get like a mouse Turner, Steven Adams, where do you see them going with this?

Josue Pavon: 15:38

The second part for sure. Look, I wish there was this secret big man, the soldiers could just grab and plug into the Stevens's rotation. The guy was fleurs, I just don't see it. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe there is one. But again, can he plug him in compressing this, plug this guy in and get instant results? I just don't see. That's the best course i think i think it's what the enemy is going to try to do. In terms of seeing a huge shake up. I just don't see that. Some people might look at that as a huge take up. If that's the case, then I think that's what Dan is aiming for. I think he wants to package those pigs. You know, maybe Packers couple of these players, couple of these younger younger guys. It's just tough because he just didn't have a good chance to showcase them. Right. I mean, no meal for how much trade values is there right. Outside of a historic preseason three point performance from Carson Edwards. Where's this trade value after that one year removed from that? You know, so it's just really tough for him? Because I think if you have a guy like that, then it makes things a little easier. Robert Williams, I mean, there were some parts, there was some there was a stretch in the season before the shutdown where it was like, man, maybe this is it. And it just didn't happen. Right. It just never materialized. So. I think he's gonna be up against it. I love those two guys. You just named Myles Turner, in particular, of course, his name did come up. Some people are so crazy about it, or at least they're not crazy about the idea of seeing the Indiana Pacers deal him. But I mean, I've been told that, you know, the pieces are open to it. You know, I mean, he hasn't been completely healthy, but they're not completely thrilled about that new contract. They're a little nervous. They're thinking about getting from up under that. But is that package enough? You know, put yourself in the in the Pacers issues? Are you excited about Romeo Langford? Are you going to give up a guy like that? I mean, sure, are you going to say some cat space there, but you know, you're going to want someone in return someone that you truly believe in now, for the Celtics was sort of works in their favor. Maybe there's a team that's drooling over someone that's projected to be selected at that pig. Maybe someone really wants that 14 pig. Or maybe that one guy brings on two more rookies that they're that you know, two or three more rookies, maybe this is worth it. But again, it's not gonna be a whole lot of value in that proverbial big man that we're all sort of trying to plug and see who's gonna fit for the Celtics.

Rob Kelly: 18:10

Right, the one person I think, I want to think about this that can add value that possibly could get as Myles Turner, because you said they're trying to get that cap space is I know, I know. Gordon Hayward has one or two years left on his deal. I think he has two left now. Right. So So what if what just hypothetically share me out? Gordon Hayward Lankford the pics and I don't know. Who's the the guy that we just got from? France?

Rayshawn Buchanan: 18:44

Oh, this supporter?

Rob Kelly: 18:45

Yeah. I don't know me. I'm just I'm. So what do you is Gordon Hayward enough to get that upside. Do you think with the Pacers where they could partner old depot with Hayward for one season? See what they got? And then maybe they would think about doing that or is or is the week down on Hayward like like a lot of Celtic nation

Josue Pavon: 19:02

thing man like Hayward again, what he did throughout the regular season is great. But because of what happened in the playoffs, the very first game man talk about bad luck, the first game of the playoffs that really set it back. So his tray value diminish. in a huge way after that, it's sort of but but not in a way that's like, Oh, he's completely out of the window. But it's like, Hey, you have to prove that you can do that again. You know, and I think that's why all signs are pointing that he's gonna opt into that deal. Because what, there's not gonna be a whole lot of that that's out there. And you can prove yourself for $34 million. You know, you got to take that, you know, and I think if you're the Indiana Pacers, I'm going to wait because I'm going to say, let's see how he does. And if I like them that much. I was gonna sign them. You know, we'll see what the words value is that and if we're crazy about moving from Myles Turner, the money will be there, you know. So it's a couple of different ways you can look at it. If Gordon Hayward was putting up those kind of numbers throughout the postseason. Maybe the Pacers Think about it. Maybe they say you know what, let's get him now. You know, obviously he has hometown roots here. Maybe the home a hometown discount will will come into play when we have to give him a new contract come the next offseason. But again, seeing Hayward go down didn't do him any favors for the Boston Celtics. If you're trying to deal him, I think your best bet is at least the the trade deadline in 2021. Whichever, whenever that's going to be

Rayshawn Buchanan: 20:22

right I mean, but that's that's the thing about is like, you know, I felt like teams are not going to look on and take as ever. And so I feel like I mean that that's an option because it may be well, so to speak so that that's possible. But I just want to circle back around before we close out about the big myth thing, right? So yeah, most likely there is some magical big man out there that's going to do something but you know, three guys I'm thinking of right away. So obviously we're not going to get Wiseman because wife is going to go top three when he goes to Charlotte or to go to state or to Minnesota, but jaylon Smith from, from Maryland, Daniel Otero who's from Minnesota, and then James Weisman, his teammate precious I'm sure. Quicker maybe be a late lottery round pick. So do you know do you know all those guys and you know, could those guys be a fit and rasti the system? Personally, I think it would be the best fit because the fact defensively I think he's just he right now to me. He's an NBA defender. Now. He can't he can't shoot that well yet. But from it from a defensive standpoint, he fished with brass. He was trying to do versatility watch.

Josue Pavon: 21:25

Yeah, no, I like it. But that's the one thing that stood out for me for sure that that's that's realistic. Certainly grab. But I just don't know if he's NBA ready, you know, and I also don't think that Brad Stevens is completely, I mean, not that he would give up on Robert woods. But I think there's still some hope there. I mean, Grant Williams is certainly above Robert and the totem pole for Brad Stevens. And that's another guy too. I mean, don't don't think on grant that's going to certainly step into a bigger role. And I think he'll do a really good job. I do have a he someone's going to be an everyday player in the NBA, which is exactly what Brad Stevens said. And I think he makes that leap sooner than people are gonna realize now. It's gonna get you over the top. No, but he's a piece that get that that's gonna boost that second unit. And right now, I think the Celtics outside of guys like who might be available, you know, whether we're talking I don't know, Willie cauley Stein or you know, these guys who may be looking to latch onto a team and prove that they still have, you know, what it takes to contribute to a contending team? You know, maybe it's not the Ticket Ticket fly or something like that, and that pans out. But I think your best bet is to see what happens from from within itself is can't trade for someone like a Myles Turner or someone of that magnitude or a defensive shot blocker that's a root protector, then I think that's sort of the route they're going to go and the mid season because I think Danny Ainge is gonna make it. I think he's made it somewhat obvious that this team isn't where it or it needs to be to compete for a championship. So he's got to make a deal with those pieces. I just don't see him keeping all those draft picks along with the rookies that he already has on the roster. So we'll see. We'll wait. But that's, that's the area that stress the most for sure.

Rob Kelly: 23:09

Yeah, no, I can. So like, that's, that's where my head always goes to is like, we've seen it so many times in the past where with Danny Ainge, you always think he's gonna make that deal with these picks, but then he just doesn't, you know, we've seen it year in and year out, we're like, oh, we're gonna do it this year, this D, or this is the IRS here. And then we ended up drafting Carson Edwards, and grant Williams, you know, so like, as much as I really wish, I feel like I'm with you on this because like, I wish we would make that deal, but I just don't. I feel like unless it is perfect for Danny, which always seems to be the trend, he's not gonna pull that trigger, unless there's something he knows is gonna make his team better.

Josue Pavon: 23:48

Right, which makes you think how patient he can be right? Yeah, he wait this thing out. And that's why I think it's just like, relatively speaking, you're gonna see pretty much the same rotation of the same core that you saw last season. And guys, like, I don't know, 48 or javante has a shot to make the team they may bring they may retain devonte for next season. But shimmy odelay I mean, a lot of these guys, you're not gonna see them. We gotta

Rayshawn Buchanan: 24:12

go man. I'm Ray Ray hate. I'm out. Like To me it I will say this. Wrap it up someone but it's like,

Rob Kelly: 24:20

Brian sent me man, you better

Rayshawn Buchanan: 24:25

know, a semi Oh, delay to me has gotten so much out of what he did. In that first round series. It was a couple years ago. And it's unbelievable to me. Like he hasn't done much since. Like, he had a he had a nice little stretch earlier this year. Like I know.

Josue Pavon: 24:40

Every time I talk about books, right?

Rayshawn Buchanan: 24:41

Yeah. Not to Milwaukee, right. So it's just like, okay, like, yes, he can garden yarns for a couple of possessions. But what other defining moments has he had and his younger and it hasn't been one? So maybe he's the next Yeah, but sadly, he has to go. Like you have to upgrade that bench. I'm sorry. Like, it cannot stay as you know, I feel like to me, as selfish as we've been conditioned to think like, well, he's not dead. He's not gonna make that move. So listen to me like you're listening to this lady. Do not, do not think that you have to finish the other team. I know. That's what you've been doing. But NES Dang, I get what made it happen.

Josue Pavon: 25:17

But 443 and D guy like he's just he's just like you. He was a man. He this guy. He's gonna mold that To this player that I needed to be in just yeah unfortunate never worked out Yeah, I mean

Rayshawn Buchanan: 25:28

look at three and D you know that that kid out of Villanova CITIC Bay that might be the next guy. He's a three and D guys specialist for like, you know? Yeah, so maybe that's the guy they look after cuz to me just show me days done man but you know it is I'm not gonna I could go another 20 minutes about that but

Josue Pavon: 25:46

well i don't know maybe javante will be use me at least in that role maybe I don't know if you dislike him as much but maybe

Rayshawn Buchanan: 25:55

he's a he's a high flyer but once again what are the moments that you have like, okay, you can jump over somebody but you know, I mean he has to grow defensively before I could say that he's gonna be an impact player. So we'll see.

Rob Kelly: 26:07

Why do people said the same thing about Jalen when he came into the league today?

Rayshawn Buchanan: 26:10

He's he's not he's not gentlemen.

Josue Pavon: 26:14

You read my mind like Brad loves these guys. He can play two through four Brad's like really like he's drooling over these guys like yeah,

Rob Kelly: 26:24

them through very mad

Josue Pavon: 26:25

man. We are Jalen got drafted. I'm on Causeway going on and on. They're like, my co host Sean Sean Dutra is just like nah man. I hope he doesn't there's no way I might know Jalen Brown. Jalen Brown is so Brad Stevens he's such a Brad guy. Like he does everything that Brad loves and has the athleticism and you know, how he how he can defend and transition I'm like, this has brassy has written all over it. So yeah, he loves those guys.

Rayshawn Buchanan: 26:52

Yeah, he does. I mean, you know, thankfully, we kept doing the I know everyone in 2016 one at Jimmy Butler. So

Josue Pavon: 26:58

why now to

Rayshawn Buchanan: 26:59

Yeah, I mean, I'm I mean, you know, I'm not afraid to say that, you know, I wanted me at that time. Not gonna lie, cuz I'm like, I didn't I didn't watch too much Pac 10 basketball at the time. So I'm like, Who is this kid? And we got another guy who can't shoot right away. Like that's why I was pitched but you know, he's grown every year. So I'm excited. So that's

Josue Pavon: 27:17

that's John's that's John's new go to Jamal. Jamal Murray. I'm wondering man. Yeah, but this dude wanted everyone but Jalen like, yeah. Man, it's a selfish draft. Chris Dunn. I don't know where this team is going, man. Oh my gosh.

Rayshawn Buchanan: 27:32

Yeah, that's Yeah, I'm actually glad that

Josue Pavon: 27:36

I did give him credit for that one, though. I'm like I was there was some days during my mock drive. I was like Jamal would but I'm like, wait a minute now. Jalen is just that guy that fits the mold and nothing to bug Jamal if people forget if the nuggets don't make him into a point guard. You know it could it could take a couple of years before he actually because this is gonna happen eventually. Right? You can't hide this right? But it may have derailed things for another year or two before we actually see who he is now but

Rob Kelly: 28:02

yeah, but right so i one last question about the offseason when it comes so I know that what we just said the Celtics to me have been ignoring their bench and not bringing in those bench guys that we've seen have success year in year out those those guys who are so vital to winning a championship is there anyone out there and free agents or anything like that that can fit that that role for the Celtics at this point, because the it just seems like to me that's something that they've been ignoring the past couple years. No posies coming in no house coming. You know what I mean? None of those those those guys coming off the bench that you really can rely on?

Josue Pavon: 28:41

Yeah, no, that's a that's a good question. I mean, it's just no one really comes to mind last year. I love the idea of Jamal Crawford. I thought that was someone that just just from the locker room standpoint, you just really get in there and sort of help fix things, you know, but I now I don't know, you know, it's just, I think of a couple of guys, but I just don't think they would fit where the Saudis are going, or at least because of the cap restrictions, you know, Rondo and he's gonna want to hear that name. But, man, someone like that.

Rayshawn Buchanan: 29:14

I would love rendre come back.

Josue Pavon: 29:16

I know, that voice could go a really long way for someone like kemba Walker, you know, and that's the role he finds himself in now just mentoring and it's a heck of a position to be in, you know, for someone who's been in the league for so long. So, but yeah, no, that's a good question. I mean, those guys certainly come to mind. But again, I just don't realistically see the something's going out and, you know, ignoring the other two major issues that they need to address and addressing, you know, the locker room presence and voice, but hopefully, something comes along, you know, I would like to see Danny do that. That was sort of what he used to do. Right. During the prayer, you know, any veteran that was thirsty for a championship hop on if we if we if we like you

Unknown: 29:56

if

Josue Pavon: 29:58

he would come on in. So hopefully,

Unknown: 30:02

yeah, right. Right, right.

Josue Pavon: 30:06

You pass your test, you know, so but maybe maybe that does happen maybe something comes comes available it's just it's just tough right now is so early in the offseason dry at a time where we don't even know what when things are going to really get get going. You know, but um, but Okay, my but let me ask you guys a question because this guy This name popped in my head and not because he fits the the criteria you just said but it just I think it was more of a ironic thing that his his name popped up to mark his cousins. People people aren't you know, I'm

Rayshawn Buchanan: 30:40

like my initial reaction is yes. Like I would I would love that. Now I know you know people are big up here on Oh, you know, is he gonna ruin the locker room? But at this moment you need talent coming off the bench right now. I'm assuming I'm assuming he will come off the bench. I don't know bramblestar him but now, I know he would probably get killed in the picker role because I feel like he hasn't been the same, you know, mobile, mobile since since ACL. I mean, since he was injured a couple of years ago. But, um, did you get into for three and a half million dollars? I'll take it.

Rob Kelly: 31:12

Yeah, that's, I mean, I don't know who I feel like he would start because I mean, we're starting Daniel Tice at center in the middle of the Eastern Conference Finals so to me I think that's a great it's someone that I know Brad likes, because I know it's someone that they had had conversations about bringing it in the past. I like to mark is here I like that a lot actually.

Rayshawn Buchanan: 31:34

Yeah, I mean and also he brings it to seal the silhouette from Gregg Popovich. He brings some nasty here like we need is is 64 point guard can't be you know minutes about Marcus smart can't be the only guy that brings that nasty arm it's too pretty out there at times and you got to get ready sometimes, you know, not to wait, but it's like we have some goons on that team. So whether it was parked, you know, kg, you know, posing Tony Allen, you know, like we had guys that will say, you know, we know our role. And you know, we're suffering to you not just physically but mentally too. So they kind of get some guys here.

Josue Pavon: 32:11

Is that dominating? influence? Right? That presence, you know, funny before I never forget this, and I guess it didn't. It's like a moot point because of what happened because Trump is one but I'll never forget game seven right before the tip. And I think it was a was it Lowery know, someone from the Raptors was like talking to I don't think it was like, I don't think he would do it. He was someone else talking to Tatum, and they're just like, laughing and stuff. And like, Listen, like, I'm not gonna be like, oh, Tina was not focused enough or he's out of the game. I'm just like, what happened to those other Celtics teams, you know, like, like, like that culture where it was just like, I'm not soon as we hit the floor, like, We're not friends, like, I'll talk in the hallways. Like, you know what I mean? Like, I think the more that you know, and I think Miami had a lot of that and I don't want to say they they bully the Celtics, but they sort of got into their head right, you know, you know, absolutely

Rayshawn Buchanan: 33:04

and

Josue Pavon: 33:05

there's nothing you know, that's gonna happen to any team and I think this was in the end and that game seven it was a it was a head game in the Miami one.

Rob Kelly: 33:13

Yeah, I think that's that's the biggest piece they were missing. Which is definitely what they need, which we'll be talking about the whole time is strength. You know what I mean? They just got bullied that entire series they were getting bullied all over the place whether it was Tatum, whether it was brown, everyone was getting voted up and down the court so I'm with you on that.

Rayshawn Buchanan: 33:32

They meet they made them out of Biola Shaquille O'Neal out there right right. And he essentially he got neutralized in that in that in the finals he got neutralize You know, it was consecutive consecutive just Kentucky in AD said hey, it's my time big phone. You know, my look there's levels to this and he found out what but because to me, you know, you could tell me if you agree or disagree, I felt like BAM is an upgraded version of Al Horford just someone that can you know that's beneficial you can bring your brand you know it should be like our yet but to me I think he's gonna grow into that player and maybe surpass what hell is done in the NBA.

Josue Pavon: 34:12

Yeah, no, that's a good comparison. Because I'll you know, people forget that three was literally I think that that three point touch is what made this other say, Okay, done deal. He's our guy now because when he added that to his game, it obviously changed things and it fit the mold for Brad Stevens. So yeah, it's actually a good, good, good comparison. Because I think that was one year, a year five, maybe, you know, he had been in the league for quite some time. And then he, he

Rayshawn Buchanan: 34:37

got he got drafted. Oh, seven.

Josue Pavon: 34:39

Yeah, he went from taking like one or two to five threes a night so Right,

Rayshawn Buchanan: 34:44

right. Exactly. Yeah.

Rob Kelly: 34:46

All right. So talks about the offseason a lot. Now, you have podcasts and Cedric Maxwell. Anyone who listens to this who watches the Celtics, know that Cedric Maxwell is not only one of the most entertaining people I've ever seen on TV, but probably one of the biggest characters I've I don't wanna say I've met him because I haven't but probably one of the biggest characters I've ever seen on TV as well. You got you got any good Cedric stories first man.

Josue Pavon: 35:12

Oh, man, Max is a truck this this guy sometimes do we? Honestly man sometimes our episodes are just like full blown conversations that just needs to be be documented, you know, it's like, sometimes we will record an episode and then we'll just like start talking about something else and I'll just hit record and then that'll warp into another one. It's incredible. The chemistry and just who is who is you know, this personality everyone who's who's had conversation with him will tell you but man good max story. I'm trying to think I mean, one that certainly comes to mind at first was this happened when we're out in LA when the stuff is played against the Lakers and the reason comes to mind because it was so close to the shutdown and outside of the podcast, you know, obviously I see him all the time before and after games and on the road so every couple cities every once in a while he hit me up to take me out to eat or go somewhere to hang out because obviously, he knows a lot of the spots and stuff. This is actually my Bay first time in LA so um, I was an off day and there the other day, he stays with the Celtics day, right so they stay they stay in this hotel in Beverly Hills and invited me over so yeah, invite me over, man. So we're hanging out. It was it was a it was a blast, man. We're talking about like all kinds of stuff that had nothing to do with basketball. He's telling me like crazy stories about like him in college and his days and stuff. Like way way before he even got to the NBA. And we start getting into this the Mount Rushmore conversation. So many times it's actually one of our very first episodes was about this Mount Rushmore Who is your sports Mount Rushmore not basketball sports Mount Rushmore so I'm throwing out names of course. You know, Jordan is being brought up Muhammad Ali, you know, Mike Tyson stuff. And as you guys could imagine, Max isn't shy right? So we're young people are this not some people have a conversation with people are sort of, you know, quiet a bit. Imagine just turn around be like, Hey, give me a Mount Rushmore. I'm sorry. So

Rayshawn Buchanan: 37:19

yeah, you you

Josue Pavon: 37:22

sports Mount Rushmore. You got people literally ready to be like, Michael Jordan, right. You know, clearly on the spot on Tiger Woods, like just random people. So then he said, Oh, what about you miss? And I look over. And it's a it's Cari Champion from ESPN? Yes, that is.

Rayshawn Buchanan: 37:40

Yeah.

Josue Pavon: 37:41

Yeah. And I'm like, Oh, man. So that's that's champion. He's like, wait. I'm like, that's the girl. He was like, I thought she looked familiar. So she can't hear us. Right. He's telling me I'm telling her who she is. He's like, well, but even better. Let's find out who her Mount Rushmore is. She goes over she gives her a Mount Rushmore she throw Colby there. So we get to a whole conversation about how Kobe's name you know, obviously Kobe's legacy and how everything you know, it has them your MBA, well, that time was upside down, right. And a couple of days. This is a couple days before Memorial, some more coconut oil. Was that Monday, the game was Sunday. And we were talking for a while and we end up just just just hanging out and I don't know that's the first thing that came to my mind because I'm just like, man, like Beverly Hills. This is obviously like not, you know, the Ramada, you know, and this dude is just screaming at people. Strangers. Like mentally I love it though. I love it. Like, think about it. You're thinking Oh, yes. This is middle of a random nice hotel. Like, you know who these people like can be like surgeons in there like you

Rob Kelly: 38:47

don't know. Los Angeles of all places to like,

Josue Pavon: 38:50

yeah, there's so many times when I'm with Max, it's exactly what this is why I have a podcast with him. So many times. I'm just like, this is a podcast like it was like a line that he's always joke with him. He say something fun. Hey, Max. No, this is to be like a podcast. I'm like, Yes, this is so yeah, man. Funny times, but never a dull moment. We're studying Maxwell.

Rayshawn Buchanan: 39:11

Yeah, I could imagine that That's dope before so before we get out of here man like how can we find you on social media?

Josue Pavon: 39:18

Oh man appreciate it so you can find me on Twitter at Joe underscore sway check up on writing also follow follow heavy on Celtics on Facebook guys, we got a lot of great content coming out a lot of you know obviously things rumors and reports and a handful of us got you covered not to sell things with it. But obviously for specific for exclusively Celtics writing and coverage. Fall Fall heavy on sell things on Facebook.

Rayshawn Buchanan: 39:47

Yeah, sounds good, man. Well, we appreciate your time, man. You know, we hope to send you last time that we connect with you. And

Josue Pavon: 39:53

oh, no, definitely man as soon as again. I appreciate it. This is fun. Yeah, no, yeah,

Rayshawn Buchanan: 39:57

it was a suit man. So we appreciate you coming on the show today and we hope to have you on again as we get closer to the start of the 2021 season. Once again. My guest today has been Joseph Pavone. He covers the Celtics for heavy calm. He is the co host of the surgeon Maestro podcast and the founder and co host of the Cosmic History blog and podcast. Just say thank you for joining us here today. So for Bob Kelly ombre Shawn cannon. This has been Episode 13 of the ss w podcast. We'll talk to you next time. Peace