#16 - Sunday Night Sports Wrap: Patriots fans are Yankees fans, and What to do with Gordon Hayward?
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New England Championship ReWrap: 2003 New England Patriots
#13 - Josue Pavon
On this episode of Missing The Point, it's our monthly two hours Sunday Night Sports Wrap. we'll break down week 10 in the NFL and discuss the potential for an eighth playoff team to be added to the NFL playoffs if a game is canceled due to COVID-19. We'll discuss the NFL season as a whole as we've now gone beyond the midway point of the NFL season, and checking in some of our biggest storylines including Tom Brady's up and down first season in Tampa Bay. In the second hour, we have a discussion on patriots fans and become the Yankee fans of the NFL. The Celtics plans for the NBA Draft as the NBA seasons a little more than a month away and what exactly the Celtics have planned for Gordon Hayward and finally we discussed the weekend Sunday night matchup between the Patriots and the Ravens and the Monday night matchup between the Chicago Bears and the Minnesota Vikings.
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On this episode of missing the point, it's our monthly two hours Sunday night Sports wrap. We'll break down week 10 in the NFL and discuss the potential for an eighth playoff team to be added to the NFL playoffs if a game is canceled due to COVID-19. We'll discuss the NFL season as a whole as we've now gone beyond the midway point of the NFL season, and checking in some of our biggest storylines including Tom Brady's up and down first season in Tampa Bay. In the second hour, we have a discussion on of patriots fans and become the Yankee fans of the NFL. The Celtics plans for the NBA Draft as the NBA seasons a little more than a month away and what exactly the Celtics have planned for for Gordon Hayward and finally we discussed the weekend Sunday night matchup between the Patriots and the Ravens and the Monday night matchup between the Chicago Bears and the Minnesota Vikings but first This episode is being brought to you by box Oh crafts box Oh is an arts and crafts focus kids subscription box box Oh is a parent run company that combines creativity and convenience in one monthly package delivered right to your door boxes premier box box Oh holidays contains four separate art projects to get you and your family into the holiday spirit. Whether it's Halloween, Hanukkah, or Easter they've got you covered with holiday fun. Box Oh, we can't wait to see you create checkout box Oh crafts calm and exclusively to our listeners enter promo code sn SW for 10% off your first order. That's b o x o crafts.com promo code sn SW. missing the point is a one hour weekly two hour monthly podcast recapping the biggest stories in the worlds of sports with a New England flavor. The show notes and transcript of today's episode can be found in the description box below, as well as on our website www dot MTP show.com. If you're new to the show, consider subscribing. It's easiest way to see when we publish new episodes. We are on iTunes, Spotify, Google and wherever you get your podcasts. Be sure to rate us and leave a review of any of our shows. We always appreciate your feedback. Also, be sure to follow us on all of our social medias. All of our links will be in the show notes and check out our brand new website WWW dot MTP show.com that's MTP show calm. And now this is missing the point. But it's all relative.
Joe Malkin:Good evening, everybody and welcome into the Sunday night sports wrap. We are missing the point which is our new name. We've changed our name and if you haven't already downloaded that or listen to that episode where Mike and I go through the the name where it came from where it's going. That's I think that's lions from cotton eyed Joe. Then Then this is what it is. I mean we've changed our name to missing the point we've also got t shirts we as Dave said it looks like we all work at BestBuy not a sponsor so that's a great thing. But I am Joe Malkin joined tonight by the entire crew, our EP Craig D'Alessandro, Mike Mark Angelo, rayshawn, Buchanan, Bob Kelly, and all the way from the left coast Dave Clark. As always, guys been a busy week for all of us, I think especially with our personal and work lives and then the rollout of the new name we kind of Baltimore Colts this one on everybody the other night where Craig and I got too excited and decided to do it at midnight. It was it was actually a lot of fun to do, Craig and I you know, you guys always jumped at we talk outside of work, but I didn't see Craig in person today. We were six feet apart. So that was great. You're not a shop, Craig. But again, I am Joe Malkin joined by the entire crew and gentlemen, how are we? How are we doing tonight? Let's go around. Let's go with Mike first, Mike.
Unknown:How are you?
Craig D'Alessandro:I'm doing good dude. I'm just, you know, I think I'm really happy that the first show that we're doing after the name change is actually still the Sunday night sports wrap. Because I promise you I would have screwed that up so many times. recording it. So I'm happy we're all back together and I'm ready to get after it.
Joe Malkin:Mr. Clark, what's going on man?
Dave Clarke:Oh, man, I'm so just pumped to be here. I always love hanging out with you guys. You know, we talk every single day but it's really nice to get together for the for the full crew every month. The name change is a big deal. We used to be the Sunday night sports wrap the SW podcast but what really happened is that Mike was drunk with power because he invented the Sunday night sports rap so we had to kind of like fix his Electoral College and really get with it. So now we're missing the point where a six man podcasts in it were kind of a big deal. So like Welcome. Welcome to the revolution. Everybody.
Joe Malkin:Bobby, what's going on out there?
Rob Kelly:Yeah. How's it going? Everyone, as always glad to be here. A second. those thoughts when it comes to switching this name. I really we really just decided that we were too big for Sundays at this point. And it was time to move past Sunday night sports rap and become this in the points. I'm so happy we're here. And I also think it's huge. The first one is technically still the Sunday night sports wrap. If that's not confusing for everyone out there?
Joe Malkin:We can explain that a little bit too. But Mr. B, what's going on?
Rayshawn Buchanan:Yeah, the teacher is good classes in session already. Fine five minutes. And you know, but I know doing good man. You know, I'm glad we made a name change, you know, we actually agreed on it pretty quickly. You know, which, which is a good good I feel like you know, we always argue about something, especially when it comes to the game sells. Thanks, Dave. No, we're not happy about the name change, happy about where we're going. So the growth is real to talent is real. And although we're missing a point, we're not missing any talent. So you know, stay tuned, but it's more than
Dave Clarke:a good point. Right. It's a good point. Because what what our whole thing is, I think, is that we argue about things that don't matter. But we really nailed it on the things that do matter. So I second that for sure.
Joe Malkin:Dave always knows how to bring out the worst in all of us. So Craig is
Dave Clarke:not hard, guys. It's not hard. You're all terrible people. I
Rob Kelly:second that.
Joe Malkin:Craig Craig house. How's our EP doing over there as you're about to take a drink?
Craig D'Alessandro:We're doing very well. We're happy that hopefully everyone likes the name change. It took us an uncomfortably long a lot of time to actually settle on a new name, but we did we're happy with it. And we get we still got some surprises that people don't know yet that we'll be rolling out soon. And we're excited about it.
Joe Malkin:Yeah, I think you know, just to kind of wrap up the the name change part of it, you know, we'll run intended. Exactly. We were the SM SW podcast, which literally stood for the Sunday night sports rap. And we were sitting here releasing videos on Thursday, and sometimes on Tuesday and so that just didn't make sense anymore. I think it did to our loyal followers back from our our Dean college days on w Gao at 8.3 FM but nowadays we've reached a point where we're we're going out to so many other places we've gotten so much bigger and we really appreciate everybody that listens and pays attention and downloads our episode and if this is the first time you're watching us I know we already have a good amount of viewers on Facebook we appreciate you. you tuning in and again if you are new, this is what we look like. So if you want to just keep listening to our podcast, this will be released tomorrow morning. But also just just to throw out a couple more things so we are missing the point our social medias if you don't follow us already are on Instagram underscore missing the point Twitter at underscore MTP podcasts. You're watching us on facebook so you know where to find us. But facebook.com slash missing the points. And we have a wonderful new website that Craig has put together for us www dot MTP show.com. And as for the shirts, you know, we all did a lot of work coming up with the name going over the logos and everything else. But we have to think a little bit of hard but you know, Ray, we go I'm trying to thank my wife for doing
Dave Clarke:down over that little heart. Yeah, shout out
Joe Malkin:little bit of heart company owned by my wife that those personalized items from t shirts and everything else. So we'll link to her Facebook page in the show notes as well. Craig, second, look at Craig turn right around and just show the MTP on the back. It was almost like it was on cue, but he's just getting up to close this window so you can't hear traffic outside. That's great. Good podcast studios. We got here boys. So again, welcome in to the Sunday night sports wrap. We are missing the point and we're going to take you through the next hour and 53 minutes going through the NFL. The NBA with the NBA Draft coming up this week and the Celtics rumors that have been floating around and we'll finish off the show by touching on the Sunday night and Monday Night Football games, which will feature the Patriots and ravens on Sunday Night Football and then Dave's bears against the Vikings tomorrow night on Monday night bears. And I think the best part of this week, guys, I think we can all agree on it is that Bobby is saying today because his team is on a buy and not only are they not playing but they can't lose. So we just want to thank the Dallas Cowboys in the NFL for scheduling their buy. The best Sunday
Rob Kelly:I've had all year Bobby
Joe Malkin:saying for this show. So guys, let's get right into it. Let's talk about the NFL. One of the first things I want to touch on because they talked about a lot of playoff scenarios. They talked about a lot of playoff scenarios today on NFL redzone not a sponsor to
Unknown:sponsor you don't
Craig D'Alessandro:I wish you would.
Joe Malkin:doesn't love Scott Hanson though. The NFL is saying that if any games are canceled due to COVID, they're going to add another playoff spot. So we would go from seven which they added a new playoff spot this year anyway to eight if any games were canceled. I'm just curious what you guys think on that topic. I think it's an interesting thing they're trying to do and I could go both ways on it.
Craig D'Alessandro:I mean, I understand why they're doing it now because you know the game is being canceled uncertain times. And and all of that. But you're one of the one of the things that I like most about the NFL in the playoffs is that the best of the best teams with the some exceptions of whatever division is doing bad that year, but like it wasn't half of the league that makes playoffs, right, there was all it was always a select few and you knew that you were going to get the best teams making it. My fear is now as if you have 16 out of the 32 NFL teams. I mean, that's just gonna set a precedent. And I don't want that to happen every single year. I like the fact that the NFL playoffs mean something. And you know, just like the NBA, you always have those bottom feeders on the AC that are 10 games below 500. The NFL equivalent this year is going to be the NFC East, right. I mean, it's just you're going to have a six and 10 or 79. Team make it It happens every once in a while. But I don't want it to happen all the time.
Joe Malkin:Yeah, and I just real quick to touch on that. And that's talking more about a division winner, which is we have seen it before, right? There was a year that the Cardinals made it at seven and nine. And they were very good seven and nine. But Bobby, go ahead, nothing step on, you
Rob Kelly:know, you're gonna I feel like it's it's too many teams, that that's really what it comes down as if they were to expand the playoffs so that half the league in every week when I'm doing those power rankings, it just struggle to rank those teams 18 through 13. You know what I mean? Like, they're just half of them aren't good football teams. It's not even the fact of like, you know, this team is better than this team. It's like, okay, both of these teams think Who am I going to put ahead of who? It's just once you get below? You know what I mean? Like you're talking eagles, you're talking lions, you're talking Falcons, Panthers, Vikings? like none of these teams belong in the playoffs? Oh my god, like, Yeah, exactly. So, I mean, I'm just saying like, once you get to a certain point in football, there really is a fine line between good team and bad team.
Craig D'Alessandro:I just want to point out that you left out of that that whole little rant you had the Cowboys. Yeah,
Rob Kelly:they don't belong anywhere near
Dave Clarke:China. He's trying not to think of a mic. And but i think i think you make a good point, Bobby, because I think a sports fans, we're so used to being burned. You know, we're supposed to we're so used to being burned by the leaves that we watch. And anytime they try to add games or expand leaves or anything like that we immediately as very cynical sports fans go. You're just trying to make more money. And the real problem is, is we're gonna watch him. Every single one of us Okay, yeah, listen, we do a sports podcast where you know, we're the exception that proves the rule. But at the end of the day, we're gonna watch him and everybody else is gonna watch him. They're gonna make that money. They're gonna put those things on TV and people are gonna watch him. What are we gonna do protest? We love seeing these games. We even love and this is a very Mike Mark Angelo point. We even love seeing bad teams get beat up on. Is it a bad thing to have a couple bad teams be lambs to the slaughter in the playoffs in the NFL this year? It's a weird year. We have a lot of stuff going on. Send the Cowboys in there, send the Eagles in there send that that terrible division with winter in there to have some NFC team gain some momentum by slaughtering them on national television with the final with the final national TV game of their season. Being embarrassing and terrible. You know what, I don't even hate it. It's well deserved. It's well deserved if you're going to be the worst playoff team you should be shown to America is the worst playoff team. You know, yes. It's about them making money. Yes, it sucks for that team that they have to like not go home to their families and instead just be embarrassed on national TV. But that's what sports is all about. You know what I mean? So bearish TV. Yeah, it is. Because at the end of the day, I mean, we have a couple big WWE fans here in attendance today. And it's all about the pageantry. It's all about the stuff that that puts asses in seats as as as Mike Mark Angela always says that puts asses in seats if you know that the Philadelphia Eagles are gonna get absolutely spanked on national TV you will tune in from minute one so it's not a bad marketing I'm not I'm not opposed to it.
Craig D'Alessandro:I also will say like NFC East aside they're going to get some better teams in there like so the NFC West there you have some some really good opportunities to get out of the Seahawks the Rams the Cardinals could sneak in and that could happen in the south and in the AFC so the cartels
Dave Clarke:aren't a bad team though. Don't Don't act don't don't let those guys in because I think they might be a little bit of a sleeper. Oh,
Unknown:the car cars. Oh, no, no, no.
Craig D'Alessandro:I was saying like you we have the opportunity now with with the expansion of the field. You get better teams to make it that would not have in the past.
Rayshawn Buchanan:Yeah. Oh, that makes you that makes it a good point. There might be isn't that good for the lead. Then when you say oh,
Craig D'Alessandro:I was literally arguing with myself. I know. Okay.
Unknown:I think you're missing the point. Yeah.
Rob Kelly:First one, that's number Yeah,
Joe Malkin:I was I was gonna say I was I was about to go to Ray and say Ray, what do you think about it, but I think something we can touch on here is the fact that we saw all of the league's maybe with the exception of Major League Baseball in the MLS, which I don't know, for counting yet, but the NBA, the NHL and the NFL, have all made adjustments to their playoff format. But the NFL is about to make the biggest adjustment to their playoff format. And I think they did that.
Rayshawn Buchanan:No, I mean, listen, I think is great, right? Go figure I go against everyone here, right? But no, like, go like it. To me. It's a great idea, man. Like, I think that, you know, I love the one through ABC. Like I love that in basketball. But I mean, just to keep it from a football standpoint, like remember in 2010 when the Seattle Seahawks won 79 and then, you know, they had even though they wanted division, but they had a game, I think a quest field and you know, marshawn Lynch had marshawn Lynch had one of the greatest runs in NFL history, you know, where he ran over the whole damn neuron, the saints team. So, you know, you could get you can get a team that's seven to nine 897 that's catching fire at the end of the year. And then next thing you know, it's like, oh, now we're in the division around. Oh, we caught fire again in that round. Now. We're an NFC Championship game. So there's, there's always going to be a team that catches 2007 giants, right? Yeah, exactly. them too. So for those that are listening to new trends, you know that you got lucky. So, um, you know, you know, so you know, you know, don't don't leave us please come back. But no, but yeah, so that happens same thing in basketball like in 99. The Miami Heat were once seen a loss of AC with the new connection and Knicks made the finals as an AC so it can happen it doesn't happen too often. But to add to what Dave said, You know, I love to see teams get started as well. So I'm going to tune in on the watch and you know, you said to So once again, we're fans so you know, you know Bobby you know go ahead and say what you was about to say bro?
Rob Kelly:No, so I was just gonna say the NFC I get because you're right there's there's a good amount of teams in the NFC only way I would support it in the NFC. If you literally just take out the NFC East and you're like, Okay, you guys battle for the rest of the playoff sauce because none of them deserve it. But anyways, with the AFC right you take away the teams that are battling for the playoffs right now. So it's like bills, dolphins, chiefs, Raiders, Steelers, ravens, browns, Colts Titans, right, that's seven teams that are in the playoffs right there. The rest of the teams are the Texans. What two and seven jaguars one and eight. bangles two and five, chargers two and six. jets and patriots do any of those teams deserve to be on the playoffs.
Dave Clarke:Desert deserve is so deserve is so is such an expansive point, though, because that's like deserve deserve is based on what you're giving them to achieve. It deserve is if you finish it you say forget about the NFC ease, but you can't that one of those teams is going to make the playoffs. They so if if you win the NFC East, you by definition deserve to be in the playoffs. So if you deserve to be in the playoffs, you deserve to play a playoff team. You deserve to get beat up by a playoff team. Let's do it. Let's add all this teams in like, okay, great point, Bobby, like the Patriots. You know, I know we're going to touch on this later. And I don't want to I don't want to like spoil anything. But the Patriots being in the playoffs is still fun. Yeah. Are they like a great team anymore? No. Like, do they have the personnel to bring them to the playoffs? No. But Would any of us be really bad opposed to the New England Patriots being in the playoffs and like making a run, they could still win a Super Bowl. If you if you get them in, if you get them in the dance, they could still get there. They could still win. And anybody
Joe Malkin:can write we've seen it
Dave Clarke:because it's so open. That's why I don't know. But because it's so open this year, I think that there is something to be said for letting them all shoot it out. You know what I mean? Like, because because there's so like in the past and I see you, Joe but in the past and you're good. The the the best teams have been clear in this year and everything that's going on good teams are bad, bad teams are good do not to spoil the state of the sizzle. But good teams are bad, bad teams are good. Let's let them all shoot it out. You know what I mean?
Joe Malkin:Like who cares? It's more football. And to go along with with Dave's point there and I'm gonna totally agree with them. Because the the only way you get away from what you're about what you're talking about Bobby is to go to a standings table over go over divisional rounds, or divisions like they have in the NFL now. Right? So you split the conferences into just two conference tables and pick the top six or seven teams from those and you get you get rid of North north south, east and west right. So if and I'm going to throw a crazy prediction out here but the New York Giants are going to win the NFC East because that team is actually looking much better than they do based
Unknown:off today though,
Joe Malkin:right you're basing this off the last I'm basing this off the last three weeks
Dave Clarke:I think but you put it you got pushed over the edge by that went today and like put away I went against the Philadelphia Eagles isn't gonna it shouldn't convince you Anything
Joe Malkin:No, but I'm gonna go back to my one other thing about Dave is that I'm gonna go back to my my point that I always go to is that they are still an NFL team, the Philadelphia Eagles, they do still have Carson Wentz who is a lower tier quarterback. But that that Eagles team was a Super Bowl team just a couple years ago. And
Unknown:because of him, though,
Joe Malkin:I'm not saying because I'm not saying because of him, but what I'm saying is is that your your point is that if you win the NFC if you win the NFC East, you deserve to be in the playoffs. So if the Giants beat an NFC East team and the Philadelphia Eagles, they now have a divisional game, which means they should even more be propelled towards the playoffs. So does that mean does that prove your point? Right? Absolutely. Yes, I believe that their win today convinces me more. But over the last three weeks that giants team has played relatively, it's because it's all relative out of their mind
Rob Kelly:yet, Joe. So I would never normally back up the Giants ever in the history of my life. But I have to say I completely agree with you as a Patriots fan. They are the favourites to win that division because of the fact that they just have the most upside out of anyone out of those teams right now you look at who they have and how they can play when they play their best. They have the most upside out of everyone in the NFC East.
Dave Clarke:Bobby Bobby Let me ask you something seriously though, because you often talk about things like championship DNA franchise DNA, when we and you know, I know No, but seriously, I know that these guys give you shit for it but I agree with you a lot of the time you can you can give it the old I test sometimes. And you can see things that maybe don't show up on paper. The The thing about franchise DNA we often touch on this theme, right? The the Cowboys are and this isn't a poke at you, I promise but the Cowboys are perennial underachievers, right? It based on what they have on paper. The Patriots are never to be counted out. Like these franchise DNA things are the New York Giants, if to Joe's point to expand on a little bit, just just thinking about it. Are the New York Giants always the they shouldn't be good, but they're good team. You know, like the two years that they won those Super Bowls. And I know you guys have some bias here when it comes to the New England Patriots losing to them Super Bowls, both times the second time less so but both times. They didn't even really deserve to be there. They weren't even really on paper, the team that should have been in the Superbowl beating the Patriots, and they certainly shouldn't have been beating the Patriots. On paper in either of those games individually. Are the New York Giants, the team that can somehow weirdly pull things out in a year where it's anyone's chance or the New York Giants the exact kind of franchise with franchise DNA to go and do something like this.
Craig D'Alessandro:I think while you still had Eli and Tom coffin there they were a team and I can say this as a patriot fan. They were a team that you never wanted to see in the playoffs because you knew that when they got hot they would always get hot in December and January and they would just do one thing better than you did. Now I don't know as it's currently constituted. I you know, Joe judge is pretty unproven. I think Daniel Jones is unproven. I think if that team still had Barkley and he was healthy that would be a team that was there D line just out of curiosity does
Unknown:anyone No no.
Joe Malkin:Okay,
Rob Kelly:it's been good enough.
Dave Clarke:The Giants the Giants won those two Super Bowls based on their defensive line right they basically they did it based on like quarterback pressure.
Craig D'Alessandro:Well, all that second one was that Mario Manningham cash on the sidelines because Julian Edelman was was covering him.
Rob Kelly:So that defensive
Dave Clarke:sure but what got him what got him to the show was the fact that they could they could rush the quarterback and then when they were able to put Tom Brady under pressure, which it turned as it turns out, is the only thing you can really do to an elite quarterback to make it make him not beat you in a game. And and it worked out. It was a perfect storm. I wonder i'd like you know, it said, well, you guys often talk about the bears, you know, like the bears have never had a good quarterback. But the bears have always had a good defense. I wonder if they're starting to develop a franchise identity. That's this. You know, it's like you're a giants lineman, a giants lineman has won the Giants a Super Bowl, you know, like this kind of championship DNA topic is a real thing. I'm not saying the New York Giants are gonna go on to win the Superbowl. But you can get buy in from from a team based on Yeah, they don't have Eli Manning and Tom coffin anymore, Mike, but shit, man. I mean, it wasn't that long ago.
Rob Kelly:Let's just say let's just get
Dave Clarke:your time and I play in the city in New York and you It matters that you are part of this identity. Can you pull more out of your athletes? If you're in a franchise like that? And I guess is my question.
Joe Malkin:So so to go to that point where Bobby just said, just get there, Bobby. I don't I don't think that that's your mentality, but we'll get there and also, who would have known that Joe judge was the best head coach in the Bill Belichick coaching tree, but rayshawn you kind of got a little fired up there on a couple of those points. And I know I'm passing over you, Bobby. It's on purpose. I want to go. Want to go over to Ray, Shawn. Because right Ray, you got a little fired up there, especially on my point talking about the Giants over the Eagles today and all that. So I kind of want to get your your thoughts on all this.
Rayshawn Buchanan:Yeah, I mean, well, so now so the Eagles have what? three, five in one now?
Joe Malkin:Yeah, they record it. Yeah.
Rayshawn Buchanan:So yeah. So, I mean, I think that they still show up to play. They're still going to be the best team in that division. Um, I mean, I guess it's cute that the Giants have been better than I feel. Great. Bravo. Awesome. Round of applause. Joe, judge. Funny how a guy named Joe is rubber for another guy named Joe Wright. Let you be the judge of that stuff. See what I did there. But
Joe Malkin:Ray, they were Oh, in six, four weeks ago, is what I'm saying.
Rayshawn Buchanan:No, that's awesome. That's great. That's that that is beautiful. I'm glad to see how he is. Got them to be the three and seven. They are on the way. You know, Daniel Jones, Dan triplus. He rented again his own awesome, that is phenomenal. Um, but I do think that, you know, I mean, he's, he's okay. He's all right. But like Mike said, You lost a qualm Barkley, like, to me, that's the guy that makes that team go. Because, you know, Danny dives is they've coined a nickname for him down there. Like, he's not dropping dimes. He's, you know, he's not gonna drop down. He's doing anything. He looks like Danny, Danny NASCAR cuz he wants to run every damn where so? Um, that's what he's doing. So listen. Well, your point. Your point is, I
Dave Clarke:think that he's not he's not about to revolutionize the quarterback. He scrambled a couple times. Right? Yeah,
Rayshawn Buchanan:Correct. Correct. And, you know, we're gonna come to next, but it's just like, I think that um, Philly, Philly should still win. And, you know, mathematic fact, no, Philly will win that division. And I'm pretty sure that the Giants will win more than one or two games in
Rob Kelly:the NFC East. We're spending more time on them then they have wins First of all, and and also the, the giants, the giants were our three in one since a clown went down. Alright, so I do think that this is a great coaching job for judge. I just think that it really doesn't matter who comes out of that division, because it's going to be the first division in the history of the NFL where the division winner is legitimately upset that they won the division because they're going to go from a top 10 pick to a 28
Dave Clarke:i don't i don't know i honestly I really don't know if I agree with that Bobby because I was, you know the championship. rewrap link to it in the show notes. The as I like to call it the championship. rewrap starring everybody. But Dave, I was listening to it comment on your comment. And you guys, you guys made a great point is that bill Bella check. You know, I mean, I know this is this becomes the Bill Belichick show sometimes. But the guy's a great coach. And it's important to talk about, he used to be able to, I forget who said it, but he used to be able to fire up his team by saying you're not the expected winner. You're not the favorite. So here comes that post lawyer Milloy. You're the new guys, get everybody in, get everybody bought in who's going to be the winner who's going to who's going to prove the media wrong? Who's going to prove these people wrong? That's the case in the NFC East right now. It doesn't matter what your record is. You can be a playoff, a playoff contender. You just have to get to the dance man. You
Joe Malkin:just have to get the show. I've really never heard you be so much of a hype man. And I'm so jacked up right now and I and I'll go back to but you're absolutely right. Because kind of going arguing with with Mike's point and going with your point as you're one of us on the left, I mean, one of us on the right on the camera, and like The Brady Bunch. But to go along with your pointing it's it's it's great because I was when Mike said it at first I was okay, you know, that would kind of suck. But then I'm thinking back to what rayshawn said about the Seahawks against the saints. And you think back to those 2007 giants. And if we think of it from a sports point of view, like wasn't 2007 almost like a perfect season for the NFL in a lot of ways. You have a perfect going into the Super Bowl. I know crap. This is what happens when I see you. You have a perfect team going into the Super Bowl. And you have an eight Nate giants team in the Super Bowl. And then you get you get kind of the king of the NFL knocked off. And the giants who are one of the storied franchises in the NFL, nine and seven, not eight and eight, sorry, nine at nine and seven. Thank you, Bobby for correcting me on my NFC East trivia from from 14 years ago,
Dave Clarke:that people have to know we know we're talking about No,
Joe Malkin:no, you're right. No, you're right. And
Rob Kelly:when it comes to my shitty NFC,
Joe Malkin:for those of you watching and listening, this is why we have six of us to keep everybody accountable. It's not because we don't know what we're talking about. It's just to keep us all accountable. But Dave, it's kind of it's so much hype because You're right, like when you get that bad team, and then on on wildcard weekend, you get a seven, a nine team beating up on a 13 and three, number three seed. Like that's kind of fun. That's sort of present. Because Because you know what it is in all sports, not just the NFL, the NFL is really good at it. You know, they have a WWE streak in them as far as this bus. The key word is narrative. narrative is something that people buy into people write down to somebody on a team, if you if you're on the D line, if you're the if you're the defensive line coach in the New York Giants, or you're the or you're the quarterback coach
Dave Clarke:on the Philadelphia Eagles, you can go, here's the narrative, here's what they're telling you doesn't work, but you're still a playoff team. Your only job is to have a better record than the other three teams in your little tiny division. That's your only job. If you achieve that. Then you have a chance to do it. Do it all when the Pittsburgh Steelers who by the way, I hope we move on to them a little bit later. I'm hype on right now. I know I live in a Pittsburgh Steelers household and and you know those who are friends of the show know that, but I'm hyped on the Pittsburgh Steelers right now. When the Pittsburgh Steelers went and won that first Super Bowl in our era, there were a wildcard team. And their big thing when they went into the two that year 11 and five was their narrative. Everything that they were told was, yeah, you guys are a great franchise and all but like you're not it. You're not the team. You know, you can tell whoever wins the NFC East, that they still have a shot. You did what you need to do you did your job. Does anyone remember that phrase? You know, you can you can pull that and put it on any other team and say you can do it. You know, you got yourself to the dance, you can make the play,
Joe Malkin:whether that's the six nine and one eagles, or the seven and 169 and one Eagles or the seven and nine giants.
Dave Clarke:I'm not putting any of my hard earned money on an NSC East team winning the Super Bowl, but it's fun to say out loud on the show.
Craig D'Alessandro:I mean, I feel like I've had some time to think about it right and because it's our first show, I'm asking for a take Mulligan I want my initial take to be not counted because now that I've had time to think about it, I talked you out of it is that you're great because when you think when you really think about it, you see the Giants play the Bucs Do you think do you think the Bucs ever want to play the giants in the playoffs? Because I don't think that they do. And
Dave Clarke:quarterback Tom Brees or quarterback and that's in his head.
Craig D'Alessandro:So I think that DNA matters. I think allowing more teams in will lead to a better viewing experience. There will be some some bad teams that get in but I think all in all, it is better. So I was wrong. Already. 30 minutes in I was wrong.
Rob Kelly:It's a new podcasts. New mic. That's right. This is the first
Joe Malkin:time you've been on my Quark, Angela, you've been wrong about the lion so far too. Now to Mike's point before we switch gears here is that you some leagues have that figured out, right? Like the NHL has that figured out we saw that the LA kings win a Stanley Cup as the eight seed in the West. That's fun that that stuff is fun to watch. If the NFL can replicate that and the NFL can not dilute their rosters and their product. It's going to be awesome to see a seven seed in the east or I'm sorry, a seven seed in the AFC go on to win a Super Bowl.
Craig D'Alessandro:I also think that that's the most comparable sport that you just mentioned there. I think that in the NHL, right, it just takes a goalie to get hot. That's that's I mean that's that's literally it and everything else will fall into place in the NFL. It takes a defense defensive line or a quarterback just to say you know what, this is on me and they can leave their teams to the Superbowl. So yeah, you know what, I'm all for it. I guess every team should be the place
Rob Kelly:we're coming we're coming back to this when the Patriots right.
Joe Malkin:Oh, yeah. Well, we we're gonna get to we're gonna get to a couple of questions that were posed to us. So we'll we're gonna touch on some of the games going on here in week 10. We know we've kind of jumped off and done some other things here releasing the rewrap for the 2003 New England Patriots which you can find wherever you listen to podcast right now just search missing the point you can find that hosted by Bob Kelly. He does a great job with those. We really enjoyed talking about the 2003 New England Patriots which I think talking about it we all agree was one of the best patriots teams in their run of Super Bowls at 14 to two sorry,
Dave Clarke:I'd love to jump in there and Joe just just as a as a as a listener because again, the only one of our really close knit group here that didn't make the rewrap cutting I'm just kidding. I'm not a Patriots fan didn't make these. Bobby apparently was a Patriots fan for like eight minutes so he gets to host the Patriots fan podcast but until they
Rob Kelly:make Super Bowls in a row.
Joe Malkin:Like this whole thing. They never won three in a row
Dave Clarke:just as a small plug. Just as a small plug for the rewrap. I did listen to it obviously because I'm on this show and if you ever want to learn about like the eighth safety on on the New England Patriots in 2013 You need to you need to listen to this podcast because this is a group of guys that remembers the roster of the New England Patriots. And we'll talk about like the blood type of a guy you've never heard of
Joe Malkin:elleebana Kane Oh, negative.
Dave Clarke:Yeah, I mean, they really know their stuff if you really want to learn about the New England Patriots in 2003 and and Ray kept pointing on this in the rewrap if you're 25 or below, and you've only kind of heard stories about the 2003 New England Patriots and you want to kind of know where your why your team is legit. Why your franchise is the best franchise in the last 20 years, I highly recommend the championship for your app because they they really, they really go into detail and one of my favorite points, and I'll and I'll save it after this. I'm Bill Belichick wasn't Bill Belichick before 2003. And we've learned that in that podcast and they make a great point about that they really talk about it. I learned so much. In retrospect listening to this and if anybody is is curious about the history of the NFL, if you're curious about the history of the franchise, I highly recommend it. I know I'm biased, but I really do believe in this in this podcast. So go listen,
Joe Malkin:and I pose a huge question here. Has Dave ever been this much of a hype man for any of it like Dave's great mood today?
Unknown:It's the name change it.
Joe Malkin:That's it. That's what we'll go with new pod new us. So now that we've talked about the NFC East for 35 minutes, let's move to the NFC South and talking about our old friend Tom Brady up here in New England and talk about the Tampa Bay Bucs who were absolutely railroaded last week by New Orleans. And Ray and I kind of talked about this a little bit and Ray this was some it was it was alright. So I have to make I have to preface this because I think I said about a half a dozen times once to Craig's face in person today. f Tom Brady. And I set it like that e FF not not not the whole word. f Tom Brady. And it's not because he plays
Dave Clarke:like poop sometimes Jay does play
Joe Malkin:like sometimes. Partly it was because of fantasy football implications where he ran the ball in for a touchdown on the one yard line. And rojo is in the backfield, Ronald Jones and he couldn't just hand it off to him and got me points. But you know, no big deal. Good thing. Thank goodness for that. 98 yard touchdown run the longest in Tampa Bay Buccaneers history. And the second longest in Tom Brady's career. Only behind the 99 yard touchdown pass to Julian Edelman.
Unknown:What?
Joe Malkin:They're the same guy. It doesn't matter.
Unknown:But yeah, the same guy. Have
Joe Malkin:you ever seen him both in the same room? Don't answer that. So the Tampa Bay. So but but and I don't mean that as a Patriots fan. I really i've i've always appreciated what Tom Brady did as a quarterback as a person here in New England for this franchise, from an entertainment standpoint, bringing six Super Bowls to New England. But right now, this guy is playing out of his mind. And I'm gonna throw this out there because this might be my hot take of the day because I've been hot on Josh McDaniels being a lot of the issues with the Patriots offense lately, and we're gonna get into this later, but this is going back to the Tampa game today. Regardless of how Tom Brady has played this season, it was a lot of fun. Being a Patriots fan, watching him get absolutely railroaded by the New Orleans Saints last week, I loved every second of it. And they were all in one with Antonio brown back on the roster. So So hey, hang on, hang on,
Craig D'Alessandro:dad, dude. Like you don't act like you don't want to be this type of page. Okay.
Joe Malkin:I'm an NFL fan. But hang on. I just said I love it. Thank you for bringing me six Super Bowls. He's not here anymore. But
Dave Clarke:let me finish.
Joe Malkin:Let me let me finish my thought by saying Tom Brady was a lot of the glue that was holding this organization in this franchise together in New England. And now that he's gone, now that he's gone. Look what's going on. We're not even gotten to the page about the Patriots yet. So now we're going to let me Okay,
Dave Clarke:let's drag all our dirty laundry out on our listening fan base. So as you as loyal listeners know, we have a little bit of a group chat. We're all very good friends. We all really like love and care about each other. Don't worry, but and one of the biggest points of contention is that rayshawn and Joe are diehard patriots fans, much like Mike and Craig but on this point, they're diehard patriots fans to the point where they are sorry, boys. That
Joe Malkin:is not true.
Dave Clarke:Get your feelings hurt by by sorry for swearing on the live show but getting their feelings hurt by this patriots season to the point where I'm hearing stuff like this, Tom. It's great to see Tom Brady railroaded. He's your guy.
Rayshawn Buchanan:What is was he excited anymore? No joke joke kills him. I'm the one that's been honest saying memory actually is better. You can listen to someone to sound bites that Craig put together the best producer in the game. When I say 20
Dave Clarke:touches on Twitter, he's not listening to you.
Rayshawn Buchanan:retweet this love when it comes out. But when I said 20 touchdowns before I do my
Craig D'Alessandro:job you guys do yours
Rayshawn Buchanan:Exactly. While I'm doing my right now by plugging by giving you credit, but I'm 20 when I said 20 touchdowns to four picks and I said ballgame. And I said he's tearing us up like, guess what now that's over 20 723 touchdowns seven picks,
Dave Clarke:fared a fair amount lumpy when Joe Malkin has been waiting to hate Tom Brady since
Joe Malkin:no no no, Hang on. Hang on. That's that's not
Dave Clarke:banning the Peyton Manning fan and the Patriots fan base.
Joe Malkin:But that's that's not true. Because I have always said and Craig can back me up on this because as we've mentioned before the show and during the show, I am friends with Craig outside of the outside of work. I have all
Rob Kelly:the labor friends
Joe Malkin:always. Bobby You're just jealous. I have always You're just jealous that you're not as good friends with Craig as I have always been plenty to
Craig D'Alessandro:go around boys. Oh my god,
Joe Malkin:get your mic out of there. I have always been the one to say that Tom Brady did great things here. I loved what he did here. I'm so happy he was here and did what he did. But I was always the one that said I wasn't a big fan of them. I I've never been the biggest fan of Tom Brady.
Dave Clarke:Let's Let's go down to that right because we all understand this point. When when you're a sports fan, if we're going to go meta here, you're often a fan of a franchise which is kind of ludicrous in and of itself right? It's it's based on your geographic location like what they've done whatever Okay, like not to bring down the whole house of cards. But what makes you love a franchise often that the players that reflect what you love about the game in the team? So if Tom wasn't that for you, Joe, like that's okay. Because Tom was never the kind of quarterback that that displayed a love of the game type of thing. It was all about system. It was all about his business it was all about and honestly Bella check. The receivers need to hit their spot when they're told to right like get get get where you need to be. So we're in the offseason. We were all talking there. It's on record. You know, we're we do a podcast, there's audio of this. Who's going to be the winner of this Tom Brady or bill bill check. Let's not overreact to Tom Brady doing okay. When Bill Belichick is is having a little bit of a tough time. The at the end of the day, Tom Brady is a good to great quarterback when he's throwing the ball on the field. Okay, the reason why he's going to get goat status. This is unarguable the reason why he's gonna get gold status. The reason why he's where he is, is because he participated in a franchise that had genius behind it with Bill Belichick. Right and and I've always been married to that point. Tom Brady doing well, the Tampa Bay Buccaneers is no surprise. He has a ton of weapons though, right? He has a ton of weapons over there. Don't take pleasure in them losing a game because there's a good chance that he goes on to win a seven Super Bowl. There is a good chance of that.
Joe Malkin:Okay, just a follow up on that. I said before the season started that I didn't think they were gonna win a Super Bowl and that that wasn't vindictive, that but
Dave Clarke:you changed your mind a little bit, right?
Joe Malkin:A little bit. Absolutely. A little bit. But But yes, we can say that. I'm the second mind you have changed tonight. So you only have Craig Bobby and rayshawn good company to yourself. ratio is the most stubborn of all of us. Bring up the Celtics and so we're gonna we're gonna get there get given another 18 minutes or so. But, Dave, I couldn't I couldn't agree with you more. I think what I'm trying to say is there were there were times and we've seen it already in two wraps, right where the Patriots have had bad losses. with Tom Brady as quarterback and in the hangover. We saw the Tom Brady had bad losses, I think to me, and when he put me on the couch here and asked me about my feelings. I think I think what it is here is that he lost to in New Orleans team that he probably shouldn't have lost you by a large margin. And that was that was the entire Tampa Bay's.
Dave Clarke:I hate to keep interrupting and I'm sorry for this, but I did say pre in our pregame in our preview show that that is still always going to be the New Orleans division, and that divisional games are important to point out divisional games. Tom Brady came into that franchise battle being experienced beating up the bills, the dolphins and the Jets going into a Drew Brees franchise was at Drew Brees division was always going to be difficult to him. And it was going to be it was inevitable for him to lose to the saints twice. Was it embarrassing for him to get beat up that way? Yes, it was it and correct me if I'm wrong boys, but was that the worst loss temper he's ever tested?
Unknown:Yes, it was.
Dave Clarke:But it doesn't make it a little bit Better than Drew Brees handed in that last toy?
Joe Malkin:Yeah, Drew Brees instead of of, you know, instead of
Dave Clarke:Eli Manning For God's sake,
Unknown:take more embarrassing losses in his career already. Nick foles
Rayshawn Buchanan:I want to ask the question because I feel like you know, we're beating around the bush, right? So yes, great. They beat him twice. And you know, we were a lot not just not just Joe, there's a lot of people either you're listening to this, you
Joe Malkin:don't want me and with pink hats and don't don't know not to pick
Rayshawn Buchanan:on this or let me class are still in session. Gotcha. Oh, no, just this. This is what I mean. A lot of people will hype off for week nine when. And once again, the suit the New Orleans Saints won a Super Bowl in 2009. Right? Everyone, you can fact check that they beat them. You know, the memorable play is Tracy Porter running down the sideline of the picking off number 18. It was a beautiful moment. I'll never forget it. They have not done much in 10 years. They haven't done much. So I'm excuse me if I'm not getting hype off of week nine. When was it? What's the dominant period domination? Absolutely. Talk to me a January when they may be the only one shown in the Superbowl in the Superdome. And Tom Brady's in Tampa saying hey, I have the chance to get number seven and they're on the couch watching it just like the six of us. So just to sit back there now seven and three. There's nobody there's nobody in the NFC there's nobody in the NFC that wants to face him Come play on town tell you that right now. So I could care less about a week nine when I don't care what happens in week 12. In metric Craig Craig told us earlier in the show during in the zoom chat. breezes when I would uh when an injury he just went out with a ranger so guess what, autosaves fans that was soccer crazy that shot Washington's right now once again it sucks that he went out with an injury but things can change very quickly and I promise you number 12 without someone you want to see come playoff time if he gonna be shot. Somebody else that same.
Dave Clarke:Same point were making earlier just got to get to just got to get the playoffs. Right and everything's wide open. Right? Everything is wide. open right now.
Rayshawn Buchanan:Right now you don't want to see that problem.
Joe Malkin:I'm gonna do I gotta pull a mic here and slow down. Okay. Right, what you're saying almost, it validates my feelings towards Tom Brady a little bit more in that. All it is is the fact that he did so much here and I'm not upset that he left. Everyone knew he was gone. So I told
Dave Clarke:I told you just have it. unpacked it yet with your therapist. You're like the most upset that he left?
Joe Malkin:Yeah, no, no, but but but but but I knew it was coming. I called it I said it. So maybe maybe you're right, maybe. But maybe we're here for you. Maybe I was more of a fan of him than I ever thought I was. But hang on. I want to go to Bobby because Bobby has been trying to jump in here now. Now that rayshawn has taught us something about the hoppin
Rob Kelly:Yeah, so so not to follow Mr. B's lesson over here. Okay.
Unknown:But so,
Rob Kelly:the thing I want to point out about that game last week is I don't think that that was an image of who the Buccaneers are. They didn't show up from that game to start with, you know what I mean? Like they didn't have a game plan. They were certain 913 11 for their first four possessions. By the time they even realize they were playing football. It was already 21 to nothing. So that game is there done. You know what I mean? especially against the way the New Orleans team was playing last week that game was over so fast. Array I know you asked me is this game over? You asked me that you asked us all that. Right in the second quarter. I said no, I was definitely wrong. I can't wait. I mean,
Rayshawn Buchanan:yeah, you got a guy early pretty quickly. Shout out to Yogi Bear. But you know, it's just like, man, but it was but then he comes back today you know, since we're gonna talk about we kind of stuff too. He comes back today. And they drop 46 Yeah, on the team squat 31 or Kansas City last week, so it's not like Whoa, oh, just
Dave Clarke:don't don't do an iPhone math this week because But no, no, but don't do NFL math this season. Because you know, the bears have beaten teams. The Bears beat the Bucs. You know what I mean? Like, there's teams that have beaten other teams that shouldn't have it's a weird season,
Joe Malkin:the the NFL is getting the NFL is getting their parody. One last point.
Rob Kelly:Can we just point out how fast Joe went vindictive against Tom Brady. Just because he left and he sees them being successful and how much shit I get for being a victim against the Patriots when you just did the same. I'll tell you. I'll tell you some right now, Bobby,
Dave Clarke:I wouldn't want to act. I wouldn't want to be one of Joe malkins ex girlfriends because he really comes out. Leave Hey,
Joe Malkin:I've been married for four years. Me.
Unknown:Me Joe.
Rob Kelly:He got he got pleasure out of seeing Tom Brady get railroaded, right There I'ma tell I'm a troll because I get pleasure out of the
Unknown:troll
Joe Malkin:that's not a troll the guy was here for 20 years and I'm a Patriots fan I always happen whether he's here or not,
Rayshawn Buchanan:no you know you know what it is to is just like how Joe feels about Tom Brady is how Mike feels about Doc Rivers right you know Doc Rivers leaves he prided like how dark left Boston goes to the Clippers his lob city Blake Griffin by the
Dave Clarke:way doc did not leave we leave Boston he has no rating from Boston because
Rayshawn Buchanan:no, no No But Dave to fit Mike's narrative he walked he left because he didn't fit Mike's narrative. You know he bought
Craig D'Alessandro:or just the facts like if you want a narrative for each other
Dave Clarke:hang on hang on hang on. Let me let me do me Do me a favor do me a favor. Let me ask you guys a question the Patriots fans in the room. Let me ask you guys a question. When you look at an ad a Tom Brady. let me pose you a hypothetical there
Joe Malkin:is no other player like him. So we have to look at Tom Brady.
Dave Clarke:Sure. So he goes and wins the seven Super Bowl. Okay. What are you gonna What are you going to say about Tom Brady as a pet not as a as an NFL fan? Because as an NFL fan, I already think he's ago as an NFL fan who as somebody who loves greatness I already think he's the goat if he went seven I not only do I think he's the goat I think that he's never gonna be tough across all across all sports it no question
Unknown:it's possibly worldwide
Dave Clarke:yeah 100 Oh no 100% 100% worldwide
Rayshawn Buchanan:because obviously less than we're all all of us that appears fans on here and those that are listening you know, we're we're taught to be fans of the team not to play right. Um, but obviously you know, you just can't help button put the two together when it came to Tom and some people have gone and you know, ran down to Tampa Bay on I 95. With him I get that that's fine. You know, you know, that's teachers on
Unknown:those aren't real fans.
Rayshawn Buchanan:But if if he wins number seven, whether it be this year or next year on he's undoubtedly the best to ever do it. To me he already is a bit of a it just it just further semesters legacy. And to me, it's I say it contains a super because grain is like, um, I was always to me like a 6040 brady bill. And like, this was just this is just the Met that So, um, I'm not gonna, but when I am gonna say is, I'm you know, I've called out Robert Kraft and our group chat we know, but for different reasons. Um, but I would definitely call him up because listen, you're the owner. So your bill talked the owner you are. So if you still believe that Tommy and Tommy still has something left in the tank, that you make sure that Tommy has wiki has, in order for you to get number seven, for you to still be the best franchise of all time. And you for you to continue dominance. We understand we understand.
Joe Malkin:I take that that's something we've talked about before and Ray usually you and I are on the same at least close to the same side on these things. But on that one right there. They want a Super Bowl after the relationship between Bill Belichick and Tom Brady soured, he was gone after 2019
Dave Clarke:regardless being right through Kraft. Now one time doesn't mean that Bill Belichick didn't make all the calls that he made.
Rayshawn Buchanan:I'll give you some insight about the fact I know because I actually spoke to a
Dave Clarke:close personal friend of Robert Kraft ratio.
Rayshawn Buchanan:No, no, no, no, not No, not not, not Robert Kraft. So um, I won't say the person's name because the person even though they're not listening, but there was a guy that was on the team when they lost the Philadelphia Superbowl. And I was working down in Miami. And you know, so I was like, yo, so you know, you worked on the Patriots and um, you know, I said Uh, no, I said How was it during this year? Like, you know what, I said What happened? I said you could speak into particulars. He said Brady walked into the office went up to craft said it's either him or me and I said what he was like Yeah, he says either me or him so you know in 2017 Okay, you chose ready then you could continue to choose a player because that guy is proven and time and time again. Yes, coaches coach for players play. And everybody was coming here because they want to play with 12 it was because they want to play for bill they wanted to come play with Tom Brady. Because they knew he was going to get the ball not
Unknown:the case untrue.
Rayshawn Buchanan:No, no absolutely not the case and this and this every day if not we're not talking to other three but Ronnie Harrison was a bill guy and I'm telling you right now in the last five or six years players were coming in whether there are reavis whether it was on reggie wayne was
Dave Clarke:very simple question. Let me ask you a very good question. If that's true, where was his receiving Corps in the last year that he played in?
Rayshawn Buchanan:But that's that's on that's on Bella tected? g m s? No,
Dave Clarke:no, it's on. It's on Bella check when it's convenient, right? Because if they were coming here to play with Tom Brady, Tom, it doesn't matter. No, that's but that's the point
Joe Malkin:is to say no, you're making the same point.
Dave Clarke:The point is, if they're coming here and play with Tom, they should be coming to catch passes from Tom Brady, where the where's the receiving corps? Where are they they should be capacitor Cam Newton right now because they all should have shown up for Tom Brady. To that point.
Joe Malkin:Why do you think he ended up going to Tampa Bay that has Mike Evans, Scotty Miller who's who's up and coming. They have that. who's who's the other?
Rayshawn Buchanan:who's gone when oj Howard
Joe Malkin:the oj hat. Well, they traded and they trade. Oh, no, no,
Rayshawn Buchanan:no, he's still there.
Joe Malkin:Cam Cameron braid, right. Yeah. Why do you think Rob gronkowski came out of retirement and got the Patriots to trade him and then Tom Brady talked Tampa Bay and Bruce Arians
Dave Clarke:reviews what exactly you said that was a Rob gronkowski mastermind he was cut by Bill Belichick.
Unknown:No, no, no.
Dave Clarke:But Bill Belichick had the choice to have him on the team. He said I'll catch passes for Tom Brady or no one. No, no. I'll catch passes for Tom Brady or no one.
Joe Malkin:You're no you're right. Hang on. Bobby. You're absolutely right. He said I'll catch passes from Tom Brady or no one
Dave Clarke:bill had the choice to have gronk and build a room sorry. gronk. Can no England no chose not to have that combination? No, he didn't Rob gronkowski
Joe Malkin:didn't want to play for Bill Belichick anymore. But the medical staff, medical staff in the organization screwed Rob gronkowski because on multiple occasions with his injuries, he went to second and third opinions from doctors outside of the New England Patriots, because he felt as though it was convenient for Bill Belichick your point
Dave Clarke:where I'm sorry. What's your? What's your theory here that that Bill Belichick is fabricating medical claims against no non housekeeping?
Joe Malkin:No, nope, nope, that he wanted Rob gronkowski to come back and play injured. That he wanted Rob grand cause you to come back later.
Craig D'Alessandro:If there's just a chance that we can just kind of get this thing back on on the rails here. Here's how I want to answer a couple of the things that you just said that you just laid out. Thank god Mike just can't go. Okay. So gronk was almost going to be traded to the lions in 2018. Your corrective, he said, If you trade now retire, so he stayed. Okay. But then he retired the next year and said he's only gonna come back to play with Tom. But that aside, I think now if to your original question of four and a half minutes ago, if if Brady wins the Super Bowl in Tampa Bay? Obviously, he's the greatest of all time. And I don't think there's anything else that he can do that will that will raise that and there's certainly nothing he can do that will that will restrict that in my mind. What it will do is it will damn the Patriots though, because you had the guy and you let them go. You and it was not. I don't think it was overly malicious. I think Bill as the GM has always had this theory that the only time they've ever won Super Bowls was when they had a really good defensive squad. Because when they sold out for hold on when they sold out for offense in 2007 they didn't do anything 2011 they got there. They didn't do anything. So yes. So it's more Danny I just think it's more damning to build and and Robert Kraft for letting him go. Then Then it is good. That tarp it does it
Dave Clarke:okay, but we're not because Tom Brady's won a few games in the Patriots have lost a few games does not know. And by the way, I
Joe Malkin:think that because of how I presented
Unknown:this season doesn't
Dave Clarke:know I want to respond to Mike's point,
Craig D'Alessandro:regardless of how the Patriots finish, regardless of the Patriots finish this year. It doesn't
Dave Clarke:know I know. But let me get to the end because again, you guys have put me in a position to defend the New England Patriots, which is like not where I want to be. So think about this. We're only at where we're at. Okay, when it when Tom Brady inevitably like we're talking like a 5% chance of Tom Brady winning a Super Bowl this year? Yes, it's wide open. Yes. All the things you said is true. But okay, maybe a little higher because because he's Tom Brady, like on paper, sure. But if he doesn't, and Bill Belichick decides to draft a defensive player in a very defensive upcoming draft and build a new defense and long term win a championship with the defense wins championships mentality with a quarterback like Cam Newton or something along those lines. Bill Belcher is playing the long game guys. You can't decide who wins this based on the first nine or 10 games of the first season after they've split up like
Craig D'Alessandro:if bill so Bill's running out of time right he he has to draft the defense and have a reasonably
Unknown:clean he's gonna live forever what's what's the one
Joe Malkin:thing he doesn't want to be Marv Levy and yeah so
Dave Clarke:so I but Cody's are only getting bigger guys he's gonna be there for the next 10 years Don't worry,
Craig D'Alessandro:I think if bill wins with without Tom, it is it means more for Bill than it means for Tom because of where he went because he went to such a good situation on offense now he can't control the defense. But like if he goes there and wins with all those weapons and it's and and
Dave Clarke:I would agree with you, I would agree with you to the point where it just just a little bit the opposite where it's, it means more to Bill's point. If you can't win with offensive weapons. Do you know what I mean? Like, if Tom Brady goes in and he can't win with all the weapons that he was asking bill to supply him, then Bill's correct. And that's the exact kind of thing that Bill Belichick loves to be right about. So I wouldn't I would not bet against him. Go ahead, Bobby.
Rob Kelly:Feel like it. I feel like what it comes down to though is the Patriots new coming into this year, even before last year. And Bill already said it this season that they were going to be in salary cap hell, for the next few years, because they sold out for those Super Bowls. Brady almost left after that Eagles Super Bowl because he already knew this. So I don't think it's something where he left the team because of this. Because of that. It was the thing where he knew there was no chance, if he stayed in New England, they were going to be able to put the kind of team around him to win him and other Super Bowl going to be able to going to be able to win to be able to Yes, and I are choosing not to judge because the only way I see it right now for the Patriots to actually get back to a point where they were is to build that through the draft and Brady's not gonna sit around and watch a team build something through the draft. That's just not who he is, at this point. If he was 32, maybe, but he's not. It's 43. The Patriots need a few draft classes to come in here because free agents aren't going to do it because they just don't have the money. So
Joe Malkin:let me pose a question here to Bobby's point, and this goes for everybody, because now we've gotten on the Patriots training, like Mike said, we've gone way off but before I do that, we're entering into the second hour of the Sunday night sports wrap. So I do want to reset let's all take a deep breath, breath. Take a sip of your drink. And and, you know, let's let's get back to it. We've now fired up rayshawn we fired up Dave, Dave was our height man. I don't love that. I was great. leverages you still here because I can't see him
Unknown:with hearing spirit. Okay,
Joe Malkin:so we've we've fired up Ray, Shawn, which I did. I fired up Dave. Bobby has actually been the most level headed in this conversation with me it's because the Cowboys aren't playing this hobby. And we've done it this has been a great first hour. We do have a couple of questions to pose here as we enter this the second hour we do want to welcome you in if you're just listening to us now we hang on the Sunday night sports wrap I'm Joe Malkin rayshawn Buchanan, Mike Mark Angelo Craig D'Alessandro or EP Bob Kelly and Dave Clark from the left coast. We are under our new name as missing the point hosting the Sunday night sports wrap as we do once a month usually on the second Sunday of the month for two hours to go back to our roots of our college days where we were on w Gao at 8.3 not a sponsor. And I just want to let you guys know that if you don't follow us yet on Instagram it's at underscore missing the point on twitter at underscore MTP podcast and if you're watching us on Facebook, you already know this but if you're listening to this after the fact facebook.com slash missing the points our website MTP showed or www dot MTP show calm and we all are wearing our T shirts today. missing the point big Craig turnaround for the for the folks at home big MTP on the back and I want to say thank you to a little bit of heart My wife's company for providing these shirts for us and and guys it's been a great first hour once again the same for the for the third time here and we've turned Dave from our hype man into the into the protagonist of
Craig D'Alessandro:I know Dave's just a better heel. I mean he's just a better he'll he's not a good babyface and I love you but you just aren't you are a better he'll he's a great villain.
Dave Clarke:That's the best way I've ever been called an asshole in my whole life.
Rob Kelly:Thank you so
Joe Malkin:much. Mike has always been great at that. So
Rayshawn Buchanan:national Hill too. So yeah,
Joe Malkin:that's true. Let's pose a couple questions here. Now that we've talked about this whole this whole conversation of Tom Brady with the Patriots and and and now with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers and that entire situation, and I think we could really go in and dissect that entire the psychology behind all of it because Dave, I agree with you 100%. And I'm gonna kind of cut this here, but I agree with you 100% that Bill Belichick does things when it's convenient for him. But I think that goes into the decisions behind Tom Brady. We all know he never wanted to get rid of Jimmy Garoppolo. And that's a whole nother conversation for the last half hour that we're going to get into when we go into the Sunday night and Monday Night Football games. But two questions I really want to pose to you guys here. Just from a question that we that Bobby threw up on our Instagram and our Twitter this week of asking people you know what, this is great right now. Now you're you're a you're a fan of the NFL and or you're a fan of the Patriots and your team isn't doing well. So how's that going for you? So one of the one of the things was one of the narratives is we've won six rings. It'll be okay. And we've talked about this before, because this was something that Bobby and and Dave brought up at the beginning of the year of while you Hey, you know, you guys are fine. And now I'm kind of understanding, Dave, based on that conversation there is what you're saying is that the the Patriots themselves are in kind of a bridge or a rebuild, not necessarily that it's over. But that, hey, you've won six championships. You're just in a transition. But let's ask this question. Yankees the New York Yankees have won 27 championships in their history. Right? And especially as Red Sox fans, I believe, I believe every single one of us is a Red Sox fan all six of us. If you if you ever heard or said anything bad to a Yankees fan about the Red Sox winning World Series, they would come back and say 27 rings. And now we got people coming back and saying six rings for the New England Patriots. Our New England Patriots fans as a collective not the four of us on this podcast, our New England Patriots fans, the new Yankee fans, Mike
Craig D'Alessandro:Yes. And if you remember I've been saying this since we were on the air at at our alma mater Dean college. I personally, I think that patriot fans for the most part are insufferable right now. Because Because it is it's always you know, the reason why I you know, I love them because I'm here and I watched them like we all watch it with their family. I get it. That's that's our attachment. Right? But like, they won games they weren't supposed to, and nobody knew who they were. And they were the underdog. And then they went through like a 10 year period where they didn't win a damn thing. They got there. And fans were like, Yeah, but in bill we trust like, we still want three out of four. We did this we did that and then they want to get right and that comeback against the Falcons was great. But if you talk to a patriot fan, like if you're like, hey, how come? The defense is bad this year? They'll be like we won six championships in the last 20 years. That's okay, great. That's not the question. I'm asking you. How do you win six in the next one? Because now when I'm hearing from patriot fan says, you know, let's tank let's get a draft pick let's do this. That spits in the face of everything that you that that you have been regurgitating and spewing to other people for the last 20 years it's it's in bill we trust we're never going to be a bad team. We're going to do this and not now you want to tank figure it out. be better.
Rob Kelly:The thing is though is I think that that is a little more of the end bill we trust and you think because I think a lot of patriots fans have this idea right now. That bill is a little smarter than what the NFL is giving him credit for this specific season. And that this is a cobra tank called cow herd already had the tank or the take this past week when it comes to what he's doing. I've never seen bill do what he's doing with the season when it comes to Cam Newton and praising this so like but I agree with you 100% that they are the Yankee fan but but but
Craig D'Alessandro:and there's no doubt about what's your point before you go Rachel But to your point, Bob about how about how he's so smart. Is that really true? Because he's still drafting the Lawrence Taylor type of linebackers on defense. I can't cover that just the six for 260 pound linebackers that like he had he's missed the boat there. So I think he's the greatest coach of all time. Nothing's ever gonna change that. But patriot fans need to be aware that when you are bad people will talk to you about your team being bad and you cannot say well we won six championships because you have turned into the Yankee fans that you hated 15 years ago
Joe Malkin:I we have to go to rayshawn because rayshawn it when rayshawn starts rubbing his eyes when it's Mike talking Yeah, there's there's there's very rarely a rift there so Ray
Unknown:it's always a it's a natural Rift.
Rayshawn Buchanan:Oh, yeah. Are you in Bobby's got y'all serious? Like legitimate series that you know, we've become we've become Yankee fans.
Unknown:The majority of patriot fans. Yes.
Rayshawn Buchanan:That's That's a joke. Now let's listen. All right, Dave. Okay, yes, Dave 127 championships we get that um, but any likes that we've won six in the last 20 years, but I've said this on a previous show. Boston for the longest time has been considered a little brother. Which we have been unfortunately that's just what it is. We've been a little brother so yeah, the little brother has been on top for a while so yeah, we're gonna pop our chest a little bit and that's okay. We should be allowed but for them Yankee fans are still yell 27 championships when you've won one championship and the last 20 years. To me that's a problem. And it also to could they get it not everyone was won and lost all I'm sorry. They wanted 2008 1009 I'm sorry, but they did lose it through to the Florida Marlins. My bad. Sorry, revisionist history. Sorry. Is
Unknown:the john Hanley own just yet.
Rayshawn Buchanan:Yeah. So yeah, so sorry.
Dave Clarke:So if anyone wants to listen to it,
Craig D'Alessandro:but also, to your point not to hijack your statement the majority of patriot fans Now that are that are fans of this team. We're not fans in the 90s. Like they don't remember what when it was.
Rayshawn Buchanan:That's the one that they wanted. They wanted to be dominant. Remember? UrbanCode said no remember Curtis Martin and older Smith knows guys and that's fine. That's on him. But But we do. So we're not we're not talking about us logic. Can you tell me about the pink hats? So the pink hats if you want to fall off the bandwagon, that's all Yo, you want to be dumb enough to see and go for it? That's all go. We don't care. We don't need you.
Joe Malkin:So two things. We already decided that Curtis Martin was a better jet than a patriot. So we everybody, everybody can eat that like that. The second. The second is that a lot of the pink hats have that haven't jumped off the majority of the Patriots fans that are saying we've won six championships. Those are pink hats.
Dave Clarke:Okay, listen, as I guess the resident Patriots fan all of a sudden of this podcast, right you guys. You guys have a complicated relationship with your team. Here's why. And and what I'm trying to sum up what everybody's trying to say. Yes, you were the little brother originally for the majority of a Boston sports franchise. Fan hood. The Patriots were as we've often talked about, and I'm sure you've often talked about with your close friends and family at home that the New England Patriots were the the the runt of the litter. Am I wrong about that? Does anyone want to argue with that?
Joe Malkin:40 years of their franchise history. They were the right.
Dave Clarke:So they were the runt of the litter then what happened a very extreme pivot into not only the not the runt of the litter of Boston sports franchises, the best Boston sports franchise in your in your era Are you with with me if you weren't about the Celtics, but in your era, the best most winningest Boston sports franchise of your lifetime and the best franchise of all of our generations lifetime, no matter who you are a fan of that's a complicated relationship. So what defines Patriots fan hood? Okay. And And listen, I mean, we went into the prepping this show with me saying, Is there enough to talk about with the Patriots? And here we are spending the entire show? It's interesting
Rayshawn Buchanan:to the spokesperson, right?
Dave Clarke:Yeah, it's interesting. And here we are. So like, I'm glad I asked the question, but I'm glad we're talking about it. It's a complicated relationship. Because you're what what is this sports fandom relationship? Your dad's taunted to your grandparents taught it to you. When you were told about the Patriots, most of you, I would think I don't assume your narratives. But I bet you're told that they just weren't that great. And they probably weren't ever expected to be that great. You know, the only symbol they ever appeared in one generation ago, they got spanked by the bears when you grew up, you then developed this identity as a Patriots fan. You develop the identity of we're the best football franchise period, the only other franchise that can possibly compete with you as the Steelers. And in our era, they weren't as good. So, like, I'm just talking about Super Bowls and wins and stuff. So
Rayshawn Buchanan:once again, get to but I got you.
Dave Clarke:Yeah. No, I'm saying in our era in our lifetime, yeah. In our life. Right. Right. There's
Rob Kelly:another team with five to for the record.
Unknown:Oh, sorry. I forgot what the long they've
Joe Malkin:been. They've been real bad. You know, the
Dave Clarke:point being point being your identity with this team, I'm starting to realize is so complicated, because you were told they were bad. They turned out to be good. And then this is the really weird part. You were expecting them to get worse sooner than they got worse.
Joe Malkin:Yeah. But if they were they were bad to cut in there. They were bad.
Craig D'Alessandro:But never for us, though. Really one year for you.
Dave Clarke:That's my point. Like you. You were waiting for so long for them to get back. You're happy with two. You were happy with three? You were happy with four. You were happy with five? Damn, we got six. And then all of a sudden when it good and there was always we're eventually going to get bad again. We're eventually gonna get bad again. We're waiting for this identity to reform it the Patriots, but
Joe Malkin:it's happened with every franchise. That was good.
Dave Clarke:Yes, but you don't know how to be the franchise that you are now. Yeah. And what I'm saying to you, and what Bobby's been trying to say to you, from our perspective as non patriots fans, is that you guys are at the table now. You don't have to immediately run back to Okay, we're back. We're back again. We're bad again. We're bad again. We're okay, whatever. We're the runt of the litter. You're a good franchise nap.
Joe Malkin:You're well run subway to that point. There are good franchises that are run poorly. The San Francisco 40 Niners are not a well run franchise. You're both now. You're a good franchise and
Unknown:you're still where the original question
Craig D'Alessandro:wasn't about the franchise. It was about the fans show like enjoy. You're a patriot. And you're not about
Unknown:your fans need therapy, guys. But hang on,
Joe Malkin:hang on. That's that's the thing though. Dave Right. Like you're saying we need therapy. But that's right now so so to go on what your point is into flip it on its head. I bet you I bet you that when when 49 are fans watch their 40 Niners team come off of that huge run. They felt they Oh, they fell off hard because after after Steve Young was gone, they fell off the Cowboys after they won those Super Bowls in the 90s. They fell off. It wasn't about coaching and jamming with the foreigners. It was about a quarterback. You guys had the no Listen to me. You had this.
Dave Clarke:You not only did you have the Joe Montana, in Tom Brady, you have the GM, you had the owner, you're doing oak. Hey, Ryan paces my GM he traded up for fucking tribute ski, you're fine.
Joe Malkin:The F word is now at a one count on this show. To
Dave Clarke:access my second
Joe Malkin:show. We're on three
Rob Kelly:foot. So that's that's where I think the page the Yankees fan really comes off the clearest to me is is like you guys, like DK said patriots fans have been waiting this forever. I've also been waiting for this forever, kinda just to see how not you guys but how the fan base would react. You know what I mean, to see exactly how everything would go down? And I have to
Dave Clarke:say more insecure than they should have.
Rob Kelly:That's the point that well, 100%. Yes. Because
Joe Malkin:no, you guys are getting the perspective from me and Ray, who are who get to the point where we overreact in the moment. And you're getting it from us. But I can I can tell you from listening to Boston sports, right? Hang on, I can tell you from listening to Boston Sports Radio, it's actually a little more level headed than you guys think. And I think that's partly because of what Bobby said, where everybody Joe rayshawn said, where everybody jumped on 95 and drove down to Tampa, because the people that were following the Patriots and actually cared about the Patriots, when Tom Brady was here are no longer here. So the people that actually give a shit about the Patriots are not as reactionary as you may think.
Dave Clarke:But But let me but let me but let me reiterate the point that your identity is currently forming as a fan base. Because you can have an identity as a winning team. But the counterpoint to that is what's always going to inform your identity as a fan base. Think about me and Bobby, we talk about this stuff all the time. Bobby Bobby's fan base, the Dallas Cowboys is not only informed by the winning seasons, it's informed by the losing seasons, it's informed by the recent seasons, the bears. Have they won in our lifetime? No, they served one Super Bowl, which you guys tried to delete, which I'm still mad about. But I but the bears are respected franchise, their their identity is something that can't be denied. If you're a Bears fan, you're It doesn't matter if they don't win the next 20 years. If you're a Bears fan, that's a better fandom than being a Washington football team fan fact. So you when you're a Patriots fan, what you guys are going through right now and I can't but I care about you too. And the point is what you guys are going through is you're realizing that your identity as a fan base is now which rarely happens most of the time in all sports, you come into an identity, you guys have the unique position to develop your identity as a fan base based on this bad season. Stay with Bill Belichick stay.
Rayshawn Buchanan:Well. Let me let me let me get into that. Right. So I'll tell you what I think happened. It was with me, I can't speak for Joe but maybe some other things. Right? So obviously, you know, Brady leaves in March. And you know, obviously, you know, I was in you know, utter and complete shock. And it's like damn, well, you know, what are we going to do? And so can you know, obviously the kind of goal isn't it? You know, you know, Dave, as you pointed out on a previous show, it's like oh, you know, I can't move you guys just have to try to talk yourself into you know, having Jerry said him as the quarterback and all this other weird stuff happens. So you know, I think we're already kind of preparing for the worst then it's like oh, okay, you get you get cameo and Oh, he's a former MVP. Then he comes on the first game has 155 yards passing which is a great but it's better than what we might have expected has 7500 but they didn't they go they go to Seattle. He go he throws the 397 and Edelman has a career day. Then they come back next week. This arm I was like okay, I'm sorry, I guess Vegas and they'd been on by 16 and say like, oh wait a minute like have we found our kawhi Leonard to our Tim Duncan like could we've been just we've been dispersed. That's what we've been what dispose of the NFL. That's that's what we've been. Yeah. And now now isn't Yankees? Yeah, so Exactly. So you know, through through
Dave Clarke:the NBA just for the record.
Rayshawn Buchanan:Yeah, so that's the thing though. So it's like, we thought okay, wait, have we found our kawhi Leonard said to Tim Duncan. Oh, well, maybe we can still get to a conference championship but maybe we can get to a division around and then oh cam gets cobit Oh, Adam gets hurt, oh Gilmore gets hurt. And it's like, Oh, shit. We were sorry, we suck. We suck. And that's where it comes from Mike. So it's not like Whoa, oh, we should just say no. If I realize we don't have a chance right now we have a chance to be built, like Bobby said, and we're still trusting a builder. So build a team up the middle. Hey, yo, go get that top 10 pick. Don't you don't get a frickin lineman from Alabama get get Zach Wilson or Justin feels a train Lance. And let's start over and let's run the AFC like we've been running for the last 20 years.
Craig D'Alessandro:I guess my question though, my overarching point, Bobby, I'm sorry for cutting off I'll be really quick right is like it was there any difference between 2004 Stan of the Yankees after the Red Sox won the World Series. Then there was a 2013 Patriots fan, right? We had not won in 10 years. And we were still telling people that we are the best team. They're like, we want three in bill Brady's the best week that in reality, that's when we not we. But we're fans, I'm the same way. That's when we were at our most insufferable. We had not done a damn thing in 10 years. And we're still telling people that we're the best. We're the greatest. That's when it became the little bit of the Yankee syndrome.
Rob Kelly:That's when I jumped off, I have to let you know that that is when I decided that it was more of like, I I can't, I can't keep especially because the Patriots kept winning and the Cowboys kept losing it was something where like, my my grandfather, we have discovered across the narrative of this podcast that you're just a masochist, and you like, it is true.
Joe Malkin:My dad's a Cowboys fan. So
Dave Clarke:I'm just gonna go I think you saw the most pain available and you jumped on that pain ban. I stayed on the reservation for your therapist.
Rob Kelly:But speaking of therapy, when it comes to the Patriots, I think that what makes us stand out so much more above everything else is the fact that you guys are finally seeing how much you appreciate the winning when you get to this point. And I think that that's something that patriots fans almost forgot about is how much it sucks and how low that basement really is. So that way when you brought it up to them, at least for this season, when they've been in this place in the past, they get so mad and then they don't let you go to that point because of the fact that they haven't been there. I think patriot patriot fans forgot the chase. We just assumed the end point.
Joe Malkin:But I think it's interesting you bring that up Bobby because I think what going back to Mike's point of the Patriots fan base was at its most insufferable in 2013 2014 right around the time there had the we had the three and had lost two right we were three and two going into that that 2013 season in Super Bowls. So that we were inseparable because we still had the guy everybody at that point thought that Tom Brady was just gonna last forever he was going to be here forever. And and part of it to go back to my point of of the the Belichick Brady Rift, where Bella check, wanted he drafted he drafted who he thought was going to be the next guy. I think we can all agree on that he drafted Jimmy Garoppolo and honestly thought he was going to be the next guy. We all I think we can all agree on that the Patriots fan base would agree on that.
Rob Kelly:Nobody really agree on that too. By the way,
Joe Malkin:I Well, that's what I'm saying. But so here's here's where I think that we as a fan base thought that when Tom Brady was gone, and Jimmy Garoppolo was still here, we had our Steve Young to Joe Montana. Yes, yes, we had our guy. And then guess what? Robert Kraft makes a deal with Tom
Dave Clarke:1894 San Francisco 40 Niners had the balls to trade Joe Montana though, unfortunately. So just
Rob Kelly:just for the record, though,
Rayshawn Buchanan:the record
Rob Kelly:guys went on to win a Super Bowl. So Jimmy g was not that for the record. There's no he we don't know
Joe Malkin:that. But we do know
Dave Clarke:we do know that because he got hurt.
Rob Kelly:Every single year.
Joe Malkin:Every young Steve Young was he had a better he's not CVO now. Steve Young. This is a whole different podcast. Steve Young had a better team around him at the time that he took over as quarterback because the owner of the San Francisco 40 Niners saw that it was time to move on from Joe Montana. But guess what
Dave Clarke:was happening? Robert Kraft because of how good Steve Young was the
Joe Malkin:Robert Kraft did not see that it was time to move on from Tom Brady and kept him around even though his general manager wanted to even though his general manager wanted to treat Tom Brady the same way he had treated lawyer Malloy, he had treated Assad de Samuel Thai law, the list goes on. He wanted to treat them the same way. So we've now gone into the we're coming into the last half hour of the show and about Five minutes. So there is a couple topics I want to throw out there. So that Dave and I can can stop jumping all over each other here. Sorry. No, no, no, this has been great. Oh,
Rob Kelly:don't be sorry, literally don't see guys that you guys say I'm calm. It's just because you guys are doing all my interrupting. So like, I don't have to do it. You know what I mean? It's just you guys do it for me. It's great. There's a lot to talk about.
Joe Malkin:I'm gonna try really hard not to interrupt tonight. And it's been going okay, like slightly. Okay,
Unknown:good.
Joe Malkin:Thank you. I appreciate it. I'm really getting Nancy over here. But it's also because Bobby, the Cowboys aren't playing. So you're not?
Rob Kelly:Yeah, it's great.
Joe Malkin:I want to I want to get away from the NFL. And there's a reason why there is an NBA Draft in four days. This year is going to be really weird with the NBA because the NBA is going to have a draft in November, and then they're going to have another draft in June. So it's, it's really, really freaking weird. But over the last few weeks, there has also been some Celtics rumors that have been flying around. So I really want to touch on this. The NBA season starts on December 22. This year. They have the NBA and the Players Association has agreed on a condensed 72 games season, which is something they were working towards anyway, because they wanted to do something like international soccer does and put a tournament in the middle of their season, which most most of the International basketball associations do as well. But the first question I want to pose and this this is going to be directly at rayshawn. And some of Bobby too, because this is something you guys were talking about and we floated in the slack the other day is Gordon Hayward on the move.
Rayshawn Buchanan:Yes. So go ahead, Rick. I think I think that he is but se fans, I want you to understand what's coming out of my mouth was coming out of decay as well. It was kind of a boss mouth. A lot of these deals that involve going to Hayward cannot happen unless he opts in.
Unknown:Yeah, that's it, I
Rayshawn Buchanan:get that we do not get the money. If he opts out. We also this is not last year what happened with Al Horford over Kyrie, this is a whole different situation is almost sorry to hear that clearly. I want you to understand that and I flip out like I may flip out McGinty does nothing come Tuesday or Wednesday, if Gordon Hayward does not opt in, we cannot get certain deals to happen. That being said, I believe that if he likes to Indiana deal we didn't go into hammered because they you know he's from there. And you know, they just had a fourth child. Um, I did he does choose to opt in because you know, 34.2 is just really hard to pass. You saw that thing you saw happen when Mike Conley as well over in Utah, he just opted in for his $34.2 million option to for the next year. So that's just hard to pass. And this and this in this current climate, the NBA. Nevertheless, Gordon Hayward should be on the move, whether it's to New York, whether it's to Indiana, I'm hoping day, but I feel like it should get through team deal though. Like I feel like it shouldn't be just with another team like I do like the one Indiana's talking about with macdiarmid and TJ Macondo and Myles Turner, but I'm hoping that 13 guests evolves and we're still able to add more things off the bench. So
Dave Clarke:I think that you and I, in private off the off the podcast have argued about Gordon Hayward. Yeah, we all talk. So glad you've come around to my point that like I, you know, I love the idea of Gordon Hayward is like the last piece of that puzzle. But yes, 100% he needs to move on. He's a team player. He's gonna he's gonna opt in and let us trade his contract. I really I really believe that. That's what he's that's the favor that he's going to do to the Boston Celtics and to Brad Stevens, knowing what I know about Gordon Hayward, I really do think that that's true. If your trade option is true, and I and I intentionally didn't participate in this in our in our group chat, if, if just sorry, described to me the two pieces of the trade. You just said it's Turner. And who else?
Rayshawn Buchanan:So Turner, TJ McConnell and McDermott. Yeah. So I
Dave Clarke:guess the biggest piece of that right, so agreed.
Rayshawn Buchanan:No more. Are we not not moved on? Am I
Dave Clarke:Oh, no. But but at the biggest piece of the point I'm about to make, I'm a little sick. And And listen, I love Danny Ainge, and I think he's a great GM. I'm a little sick of the constant rebuild. It's time with Tatum and brown. And it's it's tough to switch into these gears because like, Listen, I go to sleep thinking about Jason Tatum and Jalen Brown, but I I am a little sick of the rebuild. I think we're one big man away one real true big man away from from making a run. And I'm really sick of buying time with young prospects and pieces. And I really think that you could make this go on forever. You can really make this go on forever. You could build young pieces and draft picks around Tatum and brown for forever and then and then get another Tatum and brown but you'll consistently lose in the Eastern Conference. playoffs get made fun of by Yankees fans that just go and get our I'm sorry Yankees Lakers same thing get made fun of by Lakers just going to just patriots San Antonio Spurs just go and get just go and get the pieces that get you a championship you know what I mean? Like how often are we How long is this rebuild gonna take re but tell me Give me a year timeline rayshawn Buchanan how many years is this rebuild gonna take because this rebuild has already taken six years? Yeah, I
Rayshawn Buchanan:mean it's happened during the brush to error. I mean granted me I mean, coach, he
Dave Clarke:coaches superstar because he couldn't coach Kyrie
Rayshawn Buchanan:so not so. Okay. He This is I've said this off the air to people. He has to coach what I call a mid major superstar. Right? So hey, word, you know, obviously, you know, I mean, lack of a better word is a mid major superstar tane amber brown because they're mild mannered on our mid majors hype superstar. So I think that's why they're on the team. And, you know, we talked a little bit about that with Josiah Pavone. You know, that can be in the show notes as well. But just so he talked about how Jalen Brown was really a bad guy, right. And I knew nothing about Joomla coming out of out of California because I really didn't watch the PAC 12
Dave Clarke:news news a freak athlete with Yeah, no, yeah, it
Rob Kelly:was a free African green 2.0 coming out of college,
Rayshawn Buchanan:right. No, but
Rob Kelly:no, but that was for Yes. coming out of college. Oh,
Rayshawn Buchanan:yeah. But no, but that's what I got. But no, But to your point, Bobby actually test me off that he would have been a competitor Jeff Green because Jeff Green was He kind of looks like them. No, not not even that.
Rob Kelly:He can show.
Dave Clarke:Nobody is not the athlete. No, no,
Rayshawn Buchanan:no, it's not. It's not even not. It's Jeff Green was always comfortable with being very good. And that was the case. I didn't want Jaylen brown to be in that mold or someone who was just comfortable being very good. Now Jalen Brown has taken increments in his game every year and that's what has put him in that fringe All Star category and eventually gamble
Dave Clarke:I would gamble on JB Perry so I would I go through and honestly gamble on JB before I gamble on Tatum. Now listen, I'm not the GM of the Boston Celtics. But what I'm from what I've seen, attitude wise, attitude wise from those two guys. Jalen Brown is a winner. he's a he's a try hard guy till the whistle. Tatum the things that make me mad about Jason Tatum are not his technical ability. He's a great shooter. He's clutch we know that like he you know he went and did the Kobe thing like I really hate that we let a Laker anywhere near our best prospect
Rob Kelly:I killed him what our season?
Dave Clarke:Yeah, not not cool that we and you know rest in peace Kobe like note, you know, I'm not being disrespectful to his memory, but we should let them anywhere near a Celtic. But listen, I mean, Jaylen Brown is the attitude guy. The Boston Celtics, if we're going to keep a piece, it should be him. Not not Tatum, I Tatum we could get a lot for right now. If we're going to trade anyone or we're going to we're going to talk about where we're going to build around. To your point, right. To your point you might not think so. But to your point. Jalen browns, the guy you know,
Rayshawn Buchanan:I mean, so yes, it's possible. Sorry, but it's possible because they now Tatum wasn't involved in this deal. But Tannen when he was on all this, all the smoke podcasts, once again, not a sponsor. Sorry, Greg. But what I'm Steven Jackson and Matt Barnes. Tatum aluna. So wanting to play with Devin Booker. You know, when it's when it's 2017 draft was happening.
Dave Clarke:Great. Those are gonna be really great regular season highlights that don't result in a championship and I'm not
Rayshawn Buchanan:right right but but that Devin Booker, I don't know cuz, you know, there's another guy that was also drafted at 13 that turned out to be great to his house to Colby but Devin Booker can ball that guy's 26 six and five on a regular basis. Um,
Dave Clarke:if I sent you the can't win with the guard. Would you disagree with me?
Unknown:Yes, you can't win with a guard. You can't win with a guard.
Craig D'Alessandro:I would agree with you.
Rayshawn Buchanan:As your best as your best player. Yeah, as Booker Booker is not better than Tatum, but I'm just saying I just think that I felt like those guys together. Um, because I felt like it was hot or not
Dave Clarke:better than Durant and Kyrie, though you know what I mean, in the East Yeah, but
Rayshawn Buchanan:everyone's putting them everyone's putting and I get it, everyone's putting KD and Kyrie on the pedestal already, but this there's so many variables that have to happen and also variables that
Dave Clarke:that that netsky made the playoffs without Wait, wait, wait.
Rayshawn Buchanan:Yeah, but if every Kyrie has to be healthy, better at go ahead on
Rob Kelly:this we're talking about rebuilding though and this trade isn't that though this trade is exactly what we're looking for is we are looking for that big man down low. And that's what Myles Turner is he is a body that will get you rebounds. That will be the guy that you need to give you that strength on that front line. So I mean, you look at just giving up Hayward and getting back a Myles Turner in response. That is a deal that brings this team to that next spot that we're looking for. We're not looking to rebuild with him. I
Dave Clarke:think the minute I think the mid major point that that Ray made, you know what I mean? It's like alright, does Myles Turner not just make us consistently more average?
Unknown:No, he does he know what doesn't
Rob Kelly:he's he's al Horford. He's an Al Horford with attitude. What Myles Turner says though
Dave Clarke:we're missing a winning piece. We're not missing a consistent big man. We're missing a big man that can win you a game.
Rayshawn Buchanan:right but but you're not you're not gonna get a job and I do think
Rob Kelly:Myles Turner
Unknown:was like, I
Dave Clarke:wouldn't want to Joelle and beat he can't win you a series like that's a different conversation. What I would love I would love a Karl Anthony towns I would love it.
Rob Kelly:I like that is you need to be able to retool exactly, you're giving up a big piece to do those. So if you want to stick with this core a deal like that Myles Turner
Dave Clarke:not saying that I'm saying move Tatum. You want
Rob Kelly:to Oh, so you really want
Rayshawn Buchanan:to get drunk? I'm not I'm not moving? No,
Dave Clarke:I actually legitimately am drunk but like No, I'm serious Move. Move not
Joe Malkin:just so everyone knows was the theme drunk had about hang on being drunk is not a sponsored
Unknown:series. He's he hasn't stepped up guys.
Rayshawn Buchanan:Like right but I'm not Tina brown those though. Yeah,
Rob Kelly:I don't think we're at that point. Yeah,
Rayshawn Buchanan:we're not at that point. You're
Dave Clarke:not saying how long we're gonna rebuild for like, maybe
Rob Kelly:we're not but we're not building is we're trying
Dave Clarke:to take a team. We've always been two games away from going to the finals. How long are you gonna be Eastern Conference?
Craig D'Alessandro:That's right. Right.
Rob Kelly:But the thing is, sorry, but the thing is last year, but but look at that team and what they were missing that team isn't a blow it up type of team. This isn't the Dallas Cowboys who were average every single year is Jay says he
Dave Clarke:is is Jason. Are you telling me that you know for a fact that Jason Tatum is the kind of winner that he can be the best player on championship?
Rob Kelly:I know. I think he is Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah.
Joe Malkin:Let me tell you hang on. Let me take this. And let's let's frame it this way. Okay. Dave. Dave is under the impression that it's that it's a rebuild, right.
Dave Clarke:Not a rebuild, not a rebuild. It's, it's been under construction. Okay.
Joe Malkin:So you're saying it's under construction for too long. And raesha and Bobby are the obvious of where two games away from the NBA Finals all the time, right? We're always two games away from the NBA Finals. So this Wednesday, November 18. At 8pm is the 2020 NBA Draft. The Boston Celtics have picked number 14 pick number 26 or not number 30 Hang on a sec number right now pick number 30 and pick number 47. So as Dave said, there they've been under construction for too long and I'm gonna go to you guys and say I think that they understand that I think that trader Danny and Brad understand that so if we can we've talked about the the Gordon Hayward trade those four picks. Let's go with Dave's narrative. They're not going to use them. What do they do with them?
Craig D'Alessandro:I think that they should I mean, I'm just gonna throw the theory out here because I think you guys are the you guys have the PhDs in basketball. I just had a I just have a Master's Would you like to trade up all those pics for the for the big man from USC?
Rayshawn Buchanan:Hell yeah, hell yeah.
Craig D'Alessandro:I think you might have to move something else there but it's Oh, that's
Rayshawn Buchanan:that's cool. He so so okay,
Unknown:I don't get it but yes, I would do that deal. I don't think we
Rayshawn Buchanan:talked about BAM being the guy in the Miami series. It wasn't a bad one in that series. It
Dave Clarke:was her ban was hurting the finals so like,
Rayshawn Buchanan:but that that that is BAM 2.0 he's just got to play make a dead band Miss, but he can defend he can he can stretch evens can make them
Unknown:that playmaker though Yes,
Rayshawn Buchanan:right. definitely get him
Rob Kelly:though. So what does he give this team more upside next year? Yes. And I disagree with that is like but if you take Myles Turner and insert him into this team, Myles Turner was the Pacers second best player and that is a playoff ship Bobby,
Dave Clarke:ever tell you something? I'll just tell you this right now and I and I'm gonna put words in both your mouths. If we draft those draft picks, if we draft What is it? 1426 and
Joe Malkin:30 and 40.
Dave Clarke:Okay, if we draft those draft picks, I'm out on this Celtics team. Yeah, I agree. I think and so are you guys by the way. Already, you guys
Rob Kelly:move them and bring in a Myles Turner and another secondary.
Unknown:That is just
Dave Clarke:averageness I
Rob Kelly:completely I Myles Turner is an all star power forward center. And if he You guys are completely already had
Dave Clarke:al Horford Bobby he's racing wait but
Rob Kelly:out bright but so you're saying you bring in another young guy who you have to sit there and develop and turn into exactly what Myles Turner already and I'll make
Dave Clarke:it real simple. We don't need a playmaking big man, we need a rebounder and a board crasher. And that's what we've been missing for the past seven seasons,
Rob Kelly:mouse Turner's 14 and 12 every single season
Dave Clarke:but that's not how he fits into a Brad Stevens offense Bobby you know that, you know that he's going to look like a like a mitigated version of Al Horford. He's going to go he's going to go early. And he's gonna pass early and he's going to make plays like simply in the pocket right like that's what's going to happen. What we need is a athletic the the the timelord ceiling is what we're looking for that
Rayshawn Buchanan:that's what that kid that kid out of USC he
Dave Clarke:has actually got a gamble on that right then.
Rayshawn Buchanan:Yes, but they can't we also talked about what uh, what Joe sway Bobby precious I chew on a Memphis who was James Weisman his teammate. Precious I sure could jump out the building like I get that do is the NBA defender right now. And to me he fits more forgot there was such a thing
Dave Clarke:as an NBA defender but yes,
Rayshawn Buchanan:I don't know I'm saying like but I remember like darker was said about every Bradley he was right when he came out of Texas. He said every Braley right now is NBA defender. Yeah, because
Dave Clarke:the NBA right now though if you're athletic, but yes, I agree with you.
Rayshawn Buchanan:Right, but I'm saying but he he barely finished when he came in but he can log down wherever you put in front of him. So guess what? I think that that's what Yes.
Dave Clarke:Fender on the team in the last like six years other than Marcus smart, I would agree. Yes.
Rayshawn Buchanan:Right. Yeah, absolutely.
Craig D'Alessandro:Don't we also trust Brad's ability to like if they can get to see it was it is it onyeka a gumball machine if they can get him don't trust Brad's ability to develop him to be I honestly, I don't
Dave Clarke:know, coach that last series, so I'm really not sure.
Rayshawn Buchanan:Well, not not not for big men as much. He's really great regard like he's a point guard. He can't
Dave Clarke:win with guards. So I don't know.
Rayshawn Buchanan:I want to add to the point that you made about on the reboot, right, because I think, you know, we this gets lost in translation because of how it would happen. So in 2017, obviously, um, you know, who trained for Kyrie you know, Hayward comes and then you know, you know, you got al Horford a year before. I really think that in 2017, Danny Ainge really did push all the chips to the table and said, Okay, I want to win with Kyrie you know, of who's you know, beside Horford,
Unknown:and he made it out of that deal?
Rayshawn Buchanan:Oh, no, he did. But what I'm saying is that they gave their thoughts so we've been we've been clamoring especially me, I might get rid of the Brooklyn Brooklyn figure and probably does like too long. I agree. Right. So I think so by I think also the aid that a plan really was Kyrie and Anthony Davis it was it just was people could say what they want like yeah, that was the game was gonna get carried away but
Dave Clarke:Anthony Davis was Kevin Durant 2.0 right. It was just like, you don't want to come play in Boston. We thought we were gonna get you but you just don't want to complain Boston because the market sucks. And apparently we were fucking racist in like, 1970 so nobody wants to come play for us. Third. I mean,
Rayshawn Buchanan:yeah, I mean, whatever. I mean, you know, you guys first ring Congrats, but you know, um, you know, it is what it is, but I just know, that was what Danny ages plan was.
Rob Kelly:And that plan did he did
Rayshawn Buchanan:it. He did but he had a morphett on the fly. So to still, like Dave had an all star guard here every year of Vash demons 10 year except for the first year, like so. That desk part that part's not the problem but one can just to stay healthy, right? And then to can um, you know, I say Can they can they continue to have that player development? So do I think of homebrew from USC would be the best fit if they do it. Yes. I you know, I still like Halliburton I've been telling you guys about that for three or four shows like hella grand for you from Iowa State to me. And it's funny because now he started
Unknown:that's another big upside guy that I know you know?
Rob Kelly:I just have but I just have such a different mindset when it comes to this offseason is like I'm not trying to bring a rookie into this team guys you guys talk about
Dave Clarke:not worrying about we're not talking about another kind of rookie like like the timelord with a big upside we're talking about the USC guys are ready made guy. He can come in and be and be legit.
Rob Kelly:But is he but is he we don't know. We don't I just I just don't know if this team is ready to bring in another unknown. I feel like the way to go with this team is to move those pics and bring najimy
Dave Clarke:October by October that guy's starting it Listen,
Rob Kelly:we only have one month. This isn't a normal NBA offseason we have one month until that until tip off of the regular season.
Dave Clarke:Okay, well then well then draft well then draft if that's the case draft well, because nobody wants to trade with any age. So what we have here is we have an opportunity to draft the Biggest upside Big Man of the entirety of this rebuild process. And if you go with this dude from USC barring injury, he has the potential to be our starting five in our starting five at the five spot by October, you know what I mean? Like he could be a playoff 39 to 43 minute guy by October we will not get the guy that you want Bobby I know that what you're saying and Bobby, I love you for it. You're an optimist, but nobody wants to give Danny Ainge anything because you can embarrass when you trade with any age what we have left is we have a draft pick left and this guy is on the board if we could trade up I think it's unrealistic because I think we'd have to give those three picks away plus Gordon Hayward plus probably something else to get him I really do think probably well Marcus varnam okay with because perimeter defenders apparently are not as important as we thought but like
Joe Malkin:perimeter defenders that throw up 22 threes a game on yeah
Dave Clarke:yeah no I that's a different conversation. Guys. I
Joe Malkin:think I think really what what needs to happen here to be the mike Mark Angelo voice or reason is that if you want to get to the point that you want to go to, you have to move a word, you have to get those the those pieces I think I think Myles Turner is one of those pieces. So I'm going to jump on that with Bobby. However, I am with Dave on the fact that they don't need to use those pics. And if they can move those pics for the big man or a big man and package something together, then they can move on and get over that hump of game five of the NBA of the Eastern Conference Finals.
Rayshawn Buchanan:So I want to add to that right so I think 30 seconds. Okay, cool. So go right so 32 Yeah, no, you
Joe Malkin:got 30 as well.
Rayshawn Buchanan:Right and in a perfect setting like I would want the guy from USC and Myles Turner could if I could get both of those guys on the team I'm with that now now now you're talking about something
Unknown:no chance No chance.
Rayshawn Buchanan:No I'm saying if you if you trade that up but you get that pick. Today we're saying doesn't use that for you holiday which even though I like him I don't we don't need him.
Dave Clarke:You know that USC guy I mean, this is what we do a Celtics fans, right? I'm sorry, I'm interrupting your 30 seconds but it's getting
Joe Malkin:into the state of the sizzle. I'm just throwing that out if
Dave Clarke:this is what we do is Celtics fans, right? we optimize you know and like that USC guys gonna be on the suns in two years. So you know, it's playing like a league. Yeah, yeah. And it sucks, but it's true. I thought Kevin Durant was gonna be a Celtic. So anyway, sorry
Rob Kelly:that I don't think we need that playmaking five. I think you guys have PTSD from BAM out of bio absolutely dominant dominating us I didn't say comics
Dave Clarke:final board crashing board crash
Rob Kelly:I still don't think that it's as important as we need that I think we need someone download who has a presence. And I think that's what we were missing in that Eastern Conference Finals is someone that actually even put a little timid ation into BAM autobio and we didn't have that. I don't think it needs to be a superstar. It needs to be more than Daniel types. I can tell you that. And second point is we definitely deal those points those picks for someone else it's not going to be a rough draft picks. It's not we're not bringing a rookie after those picks on paper.
Joe Malkin:They may they may they may trade a pair of picks up to get a better pick, but there's no way they use the four picks they
Dave Clarke:if the number 14 pick of the NBA Draft goes and plays on the Boston Celtics is
Rob Kelly:that they won't they won't they if they make a move for the fifth pick. They're trading it put money down. Sure guarantee that
Dave Clarke:sure. But if the 14th overall pick up the NBA Draft plays in the Boston Celtics next year, don't even watch Tony Well,
Joe Malkin:maybe Dini shouldn't have fleeced the Brooklyn Nets back the
Unknown:tech and we
Joe Malkin:and we wouldn't be having this conversation.
Dave Clarke:It's meta because at the end of the day, it's meta, because what he did was he made the best trade in the history of the NBA, but then it didn't win him a championship. And now no one wants to trade with him. That was your point. Right? Right. Nobody wants to mess with Danny now,
Rayshawn Buchanan:right? Yeah, I can fleece them as I probably can't
Dave Clarke:because nobody wants to be on the other end of it. Danny Pink you know you need to do now you need to draft you need to make the best possible pick in the Draft. I think Danny knows that. I really do. And I and I think if he gets us a good big man. I've been saying for months I'm a joke. We're a big man away from a championship that is our problem. Right on this note, we
Rob Kelly:need to have an NBA show.
Joe Malkin:Yeah, I know three guys and then we got to move on.
Rayshawn Buchanan:All right, so three guys so precious. Actually, Taro Terry from Stanford University, and nj Jaden Smith from Maryland. They got those three guys think about those three guys. They may drop their 1426 and 30 if they don't move them.
Joe Malkin:Alright, so we have two big NFL games coming up to the to this group. Anyway, again for the fifth time. It's just to make Bobby eddie's is that his Dallas Cowboys are not playing this week. Deep breath for Bob Kelly here, but guess what? When's playing tonight? The New England Patriots against the Baltimore Ravens and tomorrow night. It's Dave's bears against the Minnesota Vikings. I can tell you one of those teams has a better chance of winning their game. And Dave, tell me why it's the bears.
Dave Clarke:It's actually not the best. Yeah, unfortunately,
Joe Malkin:all the bears are gonna definitely the bears are gonna beat the bike. Well, well,
Dave Clarke:okay. Yes, of course they have a better chance of winning their game than the Cowboys. But I'm sorry, I was a patriot of the Patriots.
Rob Kelly:Same same at this point. Same same at this point. But
Dave Clarke:I'm, like I said to you guys a few weeks ago when I couldn't make this show. Weirdly, with a winning record of five in one I was out on Matt naggy and the reason why is because I think he's a coward. I think that what he does is he tries to keep his job. I think it's it's he's a nice guy. But he's the it's the Matt naggy show it in his head. He's trying to get paid through at the end of the season. I think he knows this time is up. The guy can't run an offense. Nick foles is a decent quarterback Mitch trubisky is a below average quarterback that offense is so embarrassingly bad. And a five in one offense they five one team with an offense that is that bad is it's such a weird thing to try to defend you know, our defenses Okay. Where this bend don't break thing we're trying to do is is fine but if you're going to do the bend don't break thing you have to have a good offense. Yeah, they're five and four and they they're on a three game skit. You guys remember the the Patriots year where you I? I feel like you were you almost want a Super Bowl with the bend don't break thing with that narrative. But yeah, yeah, exactly. And it was because you had a decent offense. You can bend or break and give your offense decent field position. If Nick foles goes three out or throws picks. It doesn't matter. But you know, bend don't break doesn't mean anything unless your offense can convert the not breaking into points. So we knew this, you know, I mean, we knew this going in the day. We're kind of pretenders. Whatever. I think naggy is just scared. You know. And I think that that's the thing that he does incorrectly. I think that he can kind of put the right people in to a defense. I think that he can win divisional games when it counts, which is big for bears fans, and I am with them on that. I think it's big that he can beat the Packers. He's big that he can beat the Vikings. I think that we're going to win the Monday night game. But overall, I'm sick of it. Just like I was saying about the Celtics like I'm sick of it. I want to build a team that can win. I genuinely think Nick foles could run an offense that that can get us where we need to be, but they call the wrong place. And if you're five and two, and your head coaches taking over play calling, that's a problem. You know what I mean? Like that if you're if you're three and oh, and you're switching out your quarterback, that's a problem. And Matt naggy is not a leader in that sense. And it's switch for me really drastically. Like I don't know exactly what happened. But like, I was all in on them. He was a young coach. We were cool. And now it's like Dude, you're just doing the wrong thing. So yeah, are the Patriots gonna win? I'm sorry. The Patriots gonna lose on Sunday. Probably the bears gonna win on Monday, probably. But that doesn't mean that the bears are any better than we thought they were or the Patriots are any worse than
Rob Kelly:they're exactly.
Joe Malkin:Maybe Matt naggy is just listening to the guy in the center
Dave Clarke:who we thought they were we let him off the hook. That's right. All right.
Joe Malkin:So now that we've gotten our thoughts on the Monday Night Football game between the bears and the Vikings rayshawn I want you to give us your thoughts on tonight's Sunday night game, which we'll be kicking off moment momentarily in like 25 minutes between the Patriots and the Ravens.
Rayshawn Buchanan:So I've been back and forth about this all week, you know, thinking about Okay, what's gonna happen, you know, we barely beat the jabs. And you know, we're like, you know, we're basically a team that's in mediocrity right now. That's just that's just the fact. Um, I have a funny feeling. We're going to upset them tonight. And I don't want it to happen because it's like, Damn, like, I don't want false hope. I don't want what's happened with Bobby. last 25 years. were winning November 81. In December,
Joe Malkin:Any question?
Rob Kelly:Any yell at me when I bring up this point
Unknown:and yell at me when I bring up the point
Rayshawn Buchanan:and it's just like, Yeah, but if it's my narrative, shout out to Mike. Oh, no, but it's just like, Damn, I don't want them to keep building hold during opening open and bam. It just drops from underneath me and in the season's over. So it's like, I haven't found a girl. I was at Baltimore tonight, but I hope I hope I'm wrong. Um, but yeah, I mean, whatever. Have it on the record pictures when 2421
Joe Malkin:it also really hurts. It also really hurts our predictions, right if the Patriots upset the Ravens tonight, so right, exactly, right.
Rayshawn Buchanan:Oh my god.
Craig D'Alessandro:I'm gonna tell you either the Patriots are gonna get that Their absolute asses kicked in like it's gonna be, it will be like a 30 point blowout or they're gonna win, they will not lose a close game they will not lose a close game to them. So it will either be a blowout or a win and i think i think that if the bears lose to the Vikings that's that's really that's because I think Vikings are trash. And I think that the bears are really good. So I think that the bears are going to actually handily defeat the Vikings on Monday Night Football, but I think either way like if the if the Patriots beat the Ravens I'm gonna tell you at four and five I don't feel any like any better about that. So it'd be a great one and I don't really
Joe Malkin:like same thing
Craig D'Alessandro:yet. Yeah, but but I think like it will it will not be a close loss that's what I'm gonna say it's gonna be a blowout
Dave Clarke:if you have to say as just just interject to the end here Joe like and I know we're running out of time. The the bears are the Steelers light and when you and I and I think that we really did a bad we really should have talked about the Pittsburgh Steelers. Well
Joe Malkin:Hang on a second. Wait
Rob Kelly:a second. Do I talk about those games?
Joe Malkin:What games you
Unknown:hate the Patriots. Lately lately? I have
Joe Malkin:we do a two hour show once a month on a Sunday. And you know that that's what we do. Now.
Unknown:I had had
Joe Malkin:nine points about the game. Day one. Craig didn't really say much.
Rob Kelly:All I'm gonna say is I read I read I really think the bears would be a problem in this NFL if they had any offense what so that's
Dave Clarke:very common when they don't have any offense right and they mom is and the problem actually isn't even quarterback. The problem is we have good running backs and they don't have an offensive line that's run blocking at all. So they just aren't I have to interject this the Steelers spanked the Bengals today the Steelers are the favorite to win the Superbowl right
Joe Malkin:we have to talk about the Steelers we
Unknown:know so important.
Joe Malkin:But it doesn't make sense but it's the same thing as the Giants beating the Eagles
Rayshawn Buchanan:you know it's not about it. No
Dave Clarke:it's not the Steelers are nine and oh Joe
Joe Malkin:No, I understand that but what I'm saying is if you want to put more weight on a divisional I'm agreeing with you. I'm just going around all
Dave Clarke:right well then Fahrenheit Dave?
Joe Malkin:Very angry for the last hour and 57 minutes no but I'm agreeing with you if we're going to it in a roundabout way. The Steelers just need a divisional opponent with a very good rookie quarterback and a head coach that I've actually underestimated I actually after even though they're very good, I'll be called
Dave Clarke:it I'll be called. The Bengals are decent. Yeah,
Joe Malkin:he did. And they're not they're not a bad two six and one.
Unknown:borough is going to be good.
Joe Malkin:But let's let's run over a little bit here. Let's make this more than two hours. Let's make Greg's life a living hell. And let's talk about the Steelers because they're nine and Oh,
Dave Clarke:the Pittsburgh Steelers and and I want you guys to let this next point land in the way that it's supposed to. This is the best franchise start for the Pittsburgh Steelers. Now. This is not the Arizona Cardinals. This is not the Washington football team. This is the Pittsburgh Steelers. The best NFL franchise in the history of the NFL in my humble opinion only only battled by the New England Patriots for the past 20 years. The Pittsburgh Steelers have never started better than seven and oh, now they're nine no and no why they're not No. Do you their defense? Yes is better is Ben Roethlisberger. Good. Totally Is he having a career year office surgery? Unbelievable well totally their defense
Craig D'Alessandro:guy my guys gonna kind of cut in here they're also not no because they have one of the easiest schedules I've ever seen this year
Unknown:on true
Craig D'Alessandro:just wait they beat the Giants the Broncos, the Texans the Eagles the browns. Okay,
Rob Kelly:that's barely saying the Cowboys but
Dave Clarke:you can only play the teams put in front of you and you can never count out the Pittsburgh Steelers because the division that they're in Sure. Okay, that the teams that are in Pittsburgh division has has always consisted of the Baltimore Ravens. The Baltimore Ravens are also every as we have just come off talking about the team, the team of the AFC sleeper watch right. The Pittsburgh Steelers are so legit. When they were 12 points up on the Cincinnati Bengals. Today I was watching the game or I peeped the game as I was trying to get this together with our live show. It was such a heavy 12 points guys. That 12 points was that the game was over by 12 by 12 nothing. The game was done. This Pittsburgh Steelers defense is legit because of their defense. They are so good. They went eight Nate with a down franchise quarterback last season. Knew they're going to be a little bit better we did not know they're going to be this much better their offense can produce. By the way, what is Bob Kelly always talk about championship DNA. XYZ. Their special teams is good. The people there's a great special tool is good. But like those ads, something which in a championship season that means something do I think they're gonna go 16 and oh, my tone kind of an intimated that I didn't I actually think they might say legitimately might they might go 60 to know and then win the Superbowl. What that not really make you mad as patriots fans. This is the narrative season. This is the season of narratives. They might do it. They might do it. There's so good guys, Ben Roethlisberger is playing out of his mind.
Joe Malkin:So the Pittsburgh Steelers could very well go 16 and oh, and as a Patriots fan, speaking from my perspective, it would not upset me because as much as patriots fans have wanted to hate the Pittsburgh Steelers in the past and maybe we did in the earlier rival,
Dave Clarke:right? If they're your rival,
Joe Malkin:you're doing the right the rival has the rival of the New England Patriots has changed as time has gone on. There is a point where it was the Steelers there was there was a point where it was even in the Jets, but there there was there was a point where it was the Steelers but I almost look at the Steelers a lot of the way I look at the Yankees now as a fan who has matured? I didn't know what do we really hate the Yankees of the 90s? No, I didn't. Because it was a great team.
Unknown:No, you don't know what you did then.
Joe Malkin:I may have then but I don't I don't hate.
Craig D'Alessandro:So revisionist because number one we never won a World Series. You
Unknown:know, one of them
Joe Malkin:were the San Antonio Spurs of the NFL is ratio.
Dave Clarke:Joe, it's just that Bill Belichick is the Popovich of the NFL.
Joe Malkin:I just want to point out he has a franchise. I just want to point out that when speaking about the New England Patriots fan base, Bobby and Dave today have both said we just throw that out there. So I and also
Rob Kelly:my family we are
Joe Malkin:to Mike's point, the Pittsburgh Steelers going into the NFL season ahead the 31st straight
Craig D'Alessandro:their opponents record was 117 and 139 based off last year but you know only you can only play this was put in front of you it just so happens that the first nine teams that were put in front of them five of them were shitty teams and yeah, but but they did their job they did what they were supposed to do. They won
Joe Malkin:not had the same fate against the same opponents relatively and you know that the team directly above them and strength of schedule. The Dallas Cowboys and they've had an awful year.
Craig D'Alessandro:Well, okay, but but but again, the Steelers have a a hot ahead and make Dave's point, a Hall of Fame quarterback. They have.
Dave Clarke:Are we designing the Ben Robbins version?
Unknown:Yeah, yeah. Yeah. He's
Dave Clarke:just like, super problematic, though.
Unknown:I guess. He's above
Rob Kelly:the he's above the entity we talked about last week. Yeah, Hall
Joe Malkin:of Fame in the hall on his way to the bathroom both
Dave Clarke:also like maybe we can just like take off away from him because of like, the things that he's done, but like, oh, by the way, by the way, best career year of Ben Roethlisberger in the NFL this year. So far. He's playing out of his mind right now. But anyway, yeah, he's awful as a person, so I don't know. But yeah, he is
Craig D'Alessandro:a Hall of Fame Hall of Fame quarterback. That place is a wide receiver factory. I don't know what they do. But they just always have good wide receivers. It's a good franchise. They drag the coach. Well, I mean, so i think i think i would love it if the Steelers listen. Anybody but the 72 dolphins Dave. So Leah, I hope you're listening. I hope you guys go 19. And now because I never want to hear about mercury Morris ever and pulling into the house ever again. So do it.
Joe Malkin:Wouldn't it be great? be great if we had this as patriots fans like think about the for all the Patriots fans watching and listening? Wouldn't it be phenomenal? If the Pittsburgh Steelers win 16 and oh, Jet and the New York Jets win? Oh and 16? Yes. In the in the first year that Tom Brady left New England and the Patriots fan of Super Bowl. Oh, as
Dave Clarke:a Patriots fan. If it's going to be anyone it should be the Steelers because that's the franchise that's on the level of you guys. That's the franchise. Yet you win at Listen, I am engaged to a Steelers fan. As you just called out, Mike. I've spent my entire life about around patriots fans. When I talk about the bears when Bobby talks about the Cowboys. It's a different thing. When Steelers fans and patriots fans talk to each other. It's like pistols at dawn. It's like the end of Hamilton. You know what I mean? Like it's it's so serious. It's it's it the tension, you could cut it with a knife. Those are the two best franchises of the past 20 years. The fact that you're calling out that it would be great if it was the Steelers above anyone else. Really you should tell that to the identity of your franchise because as we talked about earlier,
Joe Malkin:I'm just saying I'm just saying the Steelers and the Jets. Going 16 for an over in the same seat well
Craig D'Alessandro:I just think that the Steelers are probably like the model franchise with the NFL right? They've been relevant for every decade since the 70s. They really represent you really have not sucked and like Mike Tomlin almost got them to to the playoffs last year. Without Ben Roethlisberger, they
Dave Clarke:went What's your opinion, Mike? Honestly, what's your opinion of Mike Tomlin? Is the head coach talent? Say it out loud from from the bottom of your heart. Do you think he's a good head coach or not?
Craig D'Alessandro:Yes. gun to my head. Yes. I think they're I think he's I don't know what he would you said the same thing two years ago. Yeah. But here's the thing. I don't know. But Ray,
Dave Clarke:Ray, I can sign this face Ray has something to say about that.
Craig D'Alessandro:Like Tomlin can get players to play above their ability, but I don't know what he schemes if that makes sense.
Rayshawn Buchanan:Okay, thank you. You redeemed yourself a little bit there. So he's, he's a motivator and a leader of men as people love to say now in sports media, like he's a leader of men. But if you're saying I needed to put together X's and O's I'm not I'm not worried about Mike Tomlin. That's, that's why every time they came to Pittsburgh, Pittsburgh came in New England on his 10 year and it was mattered and we got smacked. So I'm that's that's the thing. Is he every year based
Dave Clarke:on history, though, he's getting better and better as years. Go on.
Rayshawn Buchanan:I'm basing on what I saw. No, you got it. But you actually were using that two years ago. I'm asking that because when we played we played it. We played him in the AFC Championship games. You know, um, you know, Antonio, Tonio Brown was out there making facebook live videos instead of, you know, talk about what are we going to do next week? They came into New England, you know, ready, those gets the flu flicker. Those are the Chris Hogan and that was the end of their season. So, um, you know, we go back to I mean, that was Bill Keller, but we'd go back to Bill cow was ever named Dave. They have not been knowingly when it's mattered play. Nice.
Joe Malkin:Here you go, guys. Here's the great motivators. As a Patriots fan, this is about to come out of my mouth. Here's why. Since the Patriots became a franchise in 1960, November 2 1959, but who's counting? Since since the day they became a franchise, the Pittsburgh Steelers regardless, the Patriots would have to win the seven Super Bowl to be to be considered the best franchise because the Pittsburgh Steelers are the best franchise in NFL history. And what goes to show that is kind of what back to what rayshawn just said, but in another way. Sure. They haven't been able to beat the Patriots when it matters. In the last 20 years. You guys do realize that they have the shortest head coaching list in the history of the NFL, right? Yeah, they have had three head coaches since 1969. And all of them are above 500. In not only the regular season, but also the playoffs.
Dave Clarke:Honestly, if we're saying anyone's the San Antonio Spurs to the NFL is the Pittsburgh Steelers.
Joe Malkin:But that's a fair comparison, because I don't think anybody hates the San Antonio Spurs where people actually hate the New York Yankees and the
Unknown:Mavericks fans do yeah.
Joe Malkin:I also, I mean,
Craig D'Alessandro:I think Steelers fans, Steelers fans hate hates patriot fans, whether we hate that. Oh, that's true without
Dave Clarke:the party only because you're new to the party, I think give it a few more identity issue that we were talking about earlier, you know, but no,
Rayshawn Buchanan:that's no, it's true, Dave because like I hated the Colts hated them. Yeah,
Dave Clarke:I don't know if they were your rival. But not because the franchise because Peyton Manning be Tom Brady was the rival though.
Rayshawn Buchanan:But I don't I don't hate Pittsburgh. Like I said in an earlier episode respecting my guy. Slash was my guy. drove
Unknown:the bus or something.
Rayshawn Buchanan:Z's casual name's Rob. They're
Dave Clarke:alive in the 70s.
Craig D'Alessandro:I think Steelers fans hate us more, because they've always been at that elevation. Right. They've always been there, except
Rayshawn Buchanan:except for the 80s.
Craig D'Alessandro:But they've always been a perennial relevant franchise in the NFL. And out of nowhere, the Patriots became like what you said earlier, they became the best over the last 20 years. So like, there wasn't, there was that tension from Sears fans. For us, like, for the first part, like the first three years, like we were just happy to be there, right? We just had, it just so happened that we had to beat you twice to get there, or the series fans. But after that, it was like,
Dave Clarke:I honestly think that that page that I'm sorry, Steelers fans, respect the Bill Belichick Tom Brady era as a team, but I think that their opinion is they they really don't respect the franchise. Yeah, that's fair. I really think that if if the Patriots are able to adjust and take a Cam Newton team say to the playoffs deep to the AFC Championship game, take a take some sort of team that doesn't involve Tom Brady, or it somehow involves a new era of the Patriots. Then you'll be on the radar of the Steelers fan base. If the if that's your point. You know,
Joe Malkin:what we're gonna do? We're gonna take that and just say that the Well yeah, right. Yeah, just shut up and host right. So we've now touched on on Leah's Steelers. And I think I think to do that, and I think the visible seventh
Dave Clarke:member of this. That's right.
Joe Malkin:I think Dave, Dave has made a great point because not only has Dave made this point about the Steelers, but he's really brought it full circle with what we really started this show with is an identity crisis of patriots fans, because the Patriots have not been a relevant franchise for nearly as long as the Steelers have. But the nice thing that we can write home about as patriots fans is that every franchise has and will have a bad year, and they will have bridges and they will have rebuilding periods now. And that's a no one. No, I mean, I i've always understood that. But I think you were also right, in the sense that and I think that this was always kind of inherently apparent that you were right about this is that patriots fans didn't think it was going to happen as quickly, but to Bobby's point, Bill Belichick is smarter than people give him credit for. Even though everybody thinks that Bill Belichick is really smart. So now that we have gone 11 minutes over we've gone into the third hour of the Sunday night sports wrap for the first time under the missing the point name. And Craig Craig has probably cursed us in his head a million times. But Craig, guess what, we have at least five more minutes because now it is time for what everyone looks forward to on the live Sunday night sports wrap once a month, for the first time under the new missing the point name. We have the one and only state of the sizzle.
Dave Clarke:Go ahead is if I haven't talked enough tonight. But thank you, Joe. Gentlemen, here we are again. And the state of the sizzle is wild. I'll be honest, in the NFL, nobody is good. And everyone is good. In a wild 2020 with COVID elections, murder Hornets etc. The craziest thing it turns out is sports is sports are a reflection of the society in which we live, often retrospectively in the most inspirational way see, Jackie Robinson breaking the color barrier and Jim Abbott throwing a no hitter with one hand Lou Gehrig's farewell speech. It seems they are doing a wonderful job of smashing expectations here in the year of smashed expectations. The year of the Patriots being under 500 sorry, the year of the Steelers starting quarterback coming off a major store surgery and setting up franchise winning record. The year of no fans was supposed to be the year of no fun. But it turns out that the Cattrall fucked up America's game more than no fans. Because the no fans league is why I love this sports restart, don't you? It's no consequences. The teams that were supposed to be good suck. The teams that were supposed to suck Mike, the lions are shockingly Okay, slash bang average. But so glad they're here. As I've often say, sports are great. They make life a little easier to digest a little milk after some pepper. And while they reflect what's going on in the world, they make things a little easier to live with. I'm happy to help with you beautiful people, be a conduit to something that is good, but isn't good to something that matters, but doesn't matter sports, human nature is reflected in the pageantry and elegance of sports. And our personalities are reflected in how much we miss the point. If you're done with MTP Yeah, you know me. Welcome to the new era of life, liberty, and the pursuit of sports chat. The state of the sizzle is all relative. Thank you, and welcome to missing the point.
Joe Malkin:Wow way to put in every single one of the key phrases Dave? Right. brilliant, brilliant. So guys, we have finally reached the end of the Sunday night sports wrap and what a what a good way to go out with the state of the sizzle that we get only once a month now that we used to get once a week back in the day. But we really do want to say thank you, as Dave just said, Thank you to everybody for listening following being a part of the journey. From the old from the olden days, to the new days to now. We have so much engagement on social media, we have so much conversation between all of us. And it's been phenomenal. And Dave really summed it up there and in the sports of 2020 have really allowed us to have the exact conversations we just had tonight, which was very heated and as always, Dave brings out the worst in all of us. For the final thoughts of everybody I would like to start this evening with and I hope he prepared something because I just saw him pull his mic closer to his face. But now we in our three Craig give us your final thoughts and help us elongate this show as much as possible.
Craig D'Alessandro:Why would I want to do that you guys have tortured me so far. You know how long is in fact like I'm thinking that long. I'm glad that That the show has gone off as well as I've I knew it would it just important for everyone to remember this exact same show nothing's gonna change for us. We'll still be here every month on second Sunday. new shows every week we got whoever's in the arrows ready to go. Nothing's changing unless one of you all quit and everything just falls apart. But we got plenty of
Joe Malkin:money to come for sure. And it's arrows in the quiver Ray go ahead with your final thought.
Rayshawn Buchanan:Gosh, love you guys for Oh man. Um, no but no thank thank you guys for those of us who've been on air so so far listen for this long. We say thank you if you listen to later on in the week, we say thank you. Uh, you know, Mike do appreciate where I'm going with this. But uh, you know, this is another one for the good guys. And you had to see the M T. P P. Love that.
Unknown:All right,
Joe Malkin:Bobby Kelly, go right ahead.
Rob Kelly:didn't hate that at all. I know. I know. I know. It's been a quiet night for me but I can't give more credit to these guys for taking all my fire because you guys were on point tonight and I want to point that out. You guys were on fire and killing it from moment one tonight. That was awesome. Second point is I don't know if everyone just saw it. But DeAndre Hopkins just made the greatest game winning catch I've ever seen. I'm sorry,
Unknown:my newest fantasy edition.
Rob Kelly:I had a whole new end of the show point that I was gonna make but I watched that play and I was like that needs to be my final point. That was the best Hail Mary catch I've seen in a very long time. That was that was unreal.
Joe Malkin:So So Twitter exploded when that catch happened and it's like you can't you can't see anything on
Rob Kelly:Oh catch.
Joe Malkin:Mike What are your What are your final thoughts?
Craig D'Alessandro:So obviously I echo everyone's sentiments I think that everyone everyone brought it tonight it was it was awesome to see people that are not normally as fired up as they are tonight. Fired up so that was great. Like my real final word though, is this whole fake narrative that Doc Rivers was traded he asked to be traded he said he want to be here for a rebuild DK okay and and rayshawn just remember that he did not want to take part in it. He left he asked to leave and didn't win the damn thing since so thank you it was a pleasure being around you guys this evening.
Joe Malkin:So I just want to say and I don't think I've ever been on the defensive as much as I was tonight. I literally since we've been on the radio and of course I'm like right back me up because and but raisons always the one that's like man not getting involved. Even though he starts he starts the fire and then he walks away. I'm like yeah alright guys see you later you deal with it now your problem but no, guys, it's everybody out there. We've harped on it a lot but the we appreciate you for staying around our new name missing the point again just to recap it'll be in the show notes below but Instagram admin at underscore missing the point on twitter at underscore MTP podcast. If you're watching us on Facebook, you know where we are. But if you don't at facebook.com slash missing the points our new website MTP www dot MTP show.com. And thank you again to a little bit of heart for the shirts. And, you know, thank you to all our supporters that have been with us and follow everything we do. And and really, guys, I mean, this was a good one to out. We're going on two hours and 20 minutes Thursday with the MTP There we go. But you know, per usual, everybody Enjoy your week. Enjoy your time we're coming up on the holidays, they're going to look a lot different this year. We could all be having a friendsgiving over over zoom just to have some some family around. So once again, we appreciate all of you who watch listen support download, please go to www dot MTP show.com. You can find us anywhere you listen to your podcasts. We've really touched on a lot of great topics here and we have so much more coming for you in the future. Nothing is going to change only the name. The faces stay the same. Thank you again. Ray Shawn Buchanan and Mike Mark Angelo Dave Clark Craig D'Alessandro the best up in the game and Bob Kelly. I am Joe Malkin. We'll talk to you next time.
Craig D'Alessandro:Thanks for tuning in to this episode of missing the point. This important is a one hour weekly two hour monthly podcast recapping the biggest stories in the world of sports with the ringland flavor. The show notes and transcripts of today's episode can be found in the description box below, as well as on our website www dot MTP show comm if you're new to the show, consider subscribing. It's the easiest way to see when we publish new episodes. We are on iTunes, Spotify, Google and wherever you get your podcasts. Be sure to rate us and leave a review of any of our shows. We always appreciate your feedback. Also, be sure to follow us on all of our social medias. All of our links will be in the show notes. And be sure to check out our brand new website WWW dot MTV show.com That's MTP show calm for missing the point. I'm Craig D'Alessandro. We'll talk to you next time.