#3 - NBA, MLS, WNBA, MLB Boycott in response to Jacob Blake shooting

Craig D'Alessandro : 0:24

On this episode of the SNSW podcast we have reaction to the decision of three major sports leagues the boycott played because of the shooting of Jacob Blake. We'll also discuss what actions can and should be taken to address the issue of social unrest in the future. This is the SNSW podcast and it's all relative. Welcome to Episode Three of the SNSW podcast. I'm Craig D'Alessandro Ep of the SNSW network. If this is your first time finding us welcome. We're thrilled to have you here with us. The SNSW podcast is usually a one hour weekly two hour monthly podcast recapping the biggest stories in the world of sports with the New England flavor. The show notes and transcripts of today's episode can be found in the show notes below, as well as our WordPress and buzzsprout patrons. If this is your first time finding us, please consider subscribing. It's easiest way to see when we publish new episodes. We are on iTunes, Spotify, Google and wherever you generally find your podcasts. Be sure to rate us and leave a review of any of our shows. We always appreciate the feedback. On today's show. We have Rayshawn Buchanan, Dave Clark and our host for this episode is Joe Malkin. We are recording today's show on Wednesday, August 26. To be published on Thursday, August 27. might have noticed that we uploaded two podcasts today. And there's a reason for that. Episode Two is recorded Tuesday, August 25. And in the 24 hours since recorded that things have changed dramatically. And one of the subjects we covered and that is the NBA. When we first started talking about doing this podcast, two of the things we talked about specifically was the possibility that we may need to do emergency podcasts of the situation calls for and two that we really wanted to stay away from discussing anything political, or anything involving social justice too much unless we absolutely had to. And unfortunately, this show falls under both categories. And with that I Give you Joe Malkin

Joe Malkin : 2:24

Thank you Craig and welcome everybody to the NSW podcast episode three. I am Joe Malkin along with Rachael Buchanan, Dave Clarke, and Craig D'Alessandro our EP. Thank you guys for joining us now, today alone. We have seen a shake up in sports, which started in the Orlando bubble of the NBA, and has since spilled over to four major sports, the NBA, the WNBA MLS and the MLB. And that issue is the shooting of Kenosha, Wisconsin resident Jacob Blake. This past weekend, and the NBA today finally said they have had enough and they are boycotting. It began with the hometown, Milwaukee Bucks, or I shouldn't say Wisconsin home Milwaukee Bucks and that spilled over to the rockets and the thunder and then the Celtics and Raptors decided to boycott their game as well. Shortly after the three, those NBA teams decided to boycott, the NBA officially canceled all three games, or at least postpone them, I shouldn't say canceled, they postponed those three games until further notice. And shortly after that announcement was made, it was said that the Milwaukee Brewers of Major League Baseball decided to strike from their game against the Cincinnati Reds this afternoon or this evening. And right about the same time there were, I believe, five NBA w NBA games tonight. Do the three or five and all of those have been postponed. Now as you guys may know, and many of you listening may know the W MBA parent company is the NBA So no surprise there. And then the Los Angeles Dodgers and San Francisco Giants of the MLB also decided to strike from their game this evening. And then the MLS had five games to kick off this evening. And those games have also been postponed. So just giving you a rundown of where we've gone today, when it comes to this social injustice that has occurred, once again, is really the way we have to phrase it tonight. And it's it's terrible that we have to phrase it that way. It's terrible that we have to phrase in any way at this point. And as Craig said, in the open, we very rarely, very rarely want to touch or mix sports with politics and social injustice. But tonight, today, I feel like there's just no way and immediately when this happened, we all we all got together and said some kind of response has to be given from our And because it does involve exactly what we love talking about on this podcast and that sports. And, guys, I'll welcome you in now to kind of give your opening thoughts on this before we get into discussion, but just based on that opening information, and the reason why all this is happening, I think the best place to go from here is to ration.

Rayshawn Buchanan : 5:48

So on episode two, you know, I mentioned briefly that, um, you know, I understood the premise of boycotts. But, you know, I thought because of potential implications financially that they will still play. I just figured that it would just be too much money involved, but I'm really glad to see that there was solidarity because you know, at first we only heard about the Celtics and bugs doing it and I said, Well, I get to they're doing it, but it's like, it can't just be on one mouse Where is just as a stem. So you know, it's It was important for other teams to, to join in with them. So I was happy to see that I didn't think it was going to spread to the major major league baseball MLS. I wasn't surprised with the WPA because people like Skylar Diggins and Candice Parker, you know, they've been really outspoken with, you know, whistling justice. And you know, many people will say their names and you're talking about breast in the Costco Briana Taylor. So I knew that once this happened, I knew for sure that it would get to a point where they use their platform, either to speak more about it, or in this case not to play So Dave, I'll let you go and you know, you could say what you think about what's going on so far?

Dave Clarke : 7:06

So yeah, I mean, like Joe said at the start of the show, it's just such a bummer that we have to keep living through this and keep seeing stuff like this happen over and over and over again and nothing changes. You know, we saw when the bubble in the NBA came back. Athletes kneeling for Black Lives Matter wearing messages of social justice on their jerseys. being empowered to and allowed to speak out on these issues, and it kind of felt for a minute, like there was a return to normalcy. And we talked the other day, yesterday and the podcast record yesterday that basically just about sports, you know, like the thing that we love to do. We made some bold predictions for some upcoming series. We were already right about some stuff. And the things that we didn't predict was this today, like you said, Ray, and I think you know, it was such a rolling developing story today in the world of sports, it was impossible for us not to talk about it, but also from a moral standpoint. I think anyone that's living in the world should should look at in the face and realize that this is the thing that You need to parse out and discuss with the people around you and think about because it's a real thing. And as much as you go on Facebook or Twitter and you see comments where it's like, Great, well, they've boycotted. What is that done? Well, we're talking about it. You know, we're sitting here we're talking about it. We're you know, we're, we're a podcast where we made sure to get together to discuss it. And you know, we've been talking about it all day in our in our slack group chat, and everybody on all of social media is talking about it. So it worked. It already worked. It brought attention to the issue. I don't know what happens from here though, because it seems like there's nothing that any of us can do you know, when, when you're raised in a country that touts freedom of speech and freedom of expression and freedom of protest, where you can change things with your dissenting voice and opinion. And then it turns out that that for some groups of people doesn't seem to be the case. Even people in positions of power criticize when they make a standard they or they boycott or they walk away from their jobs or their sports. You know, I understand, I understand why they're feeling so exasperated and so hopeless and not know, knowing what else to do. And I'll also say, lastly, that I think it was completely appropriate for it to be the Milwaukee Bucks to start this off. I think that it was awesome that they did that. I think it's a bunch of men and women in a generation that's often criticized for being you know, thankless and and lazy and not active and not hard working, trying their absolute best to make a change in the face of a lot of resistance and a lot of nothing changing. So I I'm actually I'm super proud of those guys. You know, you and me and, and everybody here does a podcast about sports. So it's not in our best interest for sports to go away. But I think sometimes it's just not a game. You know,

Joe Malkin : 10:36

it's unprecedented in so many ways. And there's so many layers to this, like we know, to the black and white at the core, what the issue is right? We know what needs to be changed. But like you said day of when, when it comes to professional athletes, taking a stand and taking away the entertainment that so many people look forward to on a daily basis. Maybe that is when we'll finally start paying attention. And one of the one of the things you look at when it comes to inequalities in this country, one of the points we can go back to is Jackie Robinson when he came into major league baseball and how he fought on the field in order to gain that respect for him and an entire group of people this is so much different when you hear you're talking about sides that are that have come so close over the years. And another layer that blows me away. And while the end that point is we're not doing it on the on the field or on the court now right now we're doing it by stepping off the court and saying, you know, basketball is not important right now. Ryan Braun of the Milwaukee Brewers baseball is not what's important right now. The w MBA, each team that's in their bubble, took a stand or took a knee on the court that they all play on, after announcing that their games had been postponed this evening. So many people Look at this and say to get to the next level, well, look at these pampered millionaires, what are they going to do? Well, something that no one else is these pampered millionaires who have worked so hard to get where they are. We're not talking about slackers. I mean, you look at LeBron James and and have your opinions about the man, but he has a platform that he's using. And so are so many other NBA players, whether they be black, white, Hispanic, it doesn't matter what every NBA player that that decided tonight to take a stand has done something good for humanity. Cuz, you know, I think we've all said it. I've said it a million times, but someone one of us said it this afternoon. And so we're talking about humanity, which it's a very simple concepts when you break it down. And I know that you guys have seen it and And so many opinions on social media, whether it be Twitter or Facebook of people that we all kind of know where they sit on the on the spectrum and saying things like, Oh, I didn't watch the NBA anyway. Well, that's your prerogative. I mean, that's fine, but we didn't need to know that now. You're not gonna you're gonna continue to not watch it because of this. I mean, that that just blows me away. That's your prerogative if you don't want to watch it. But if you're not going to watch it, because you think the whiny millionaire should shut up and play ball, I think it's time to look at the the why whiny millionaires that are elected officials who decided to do nothing with with this issue, and that's why it takes the whiny millionaires to start something to get stuff moving. I just we all know it. And I want to make sure I'm directing this conversation, especially towards you guys. So I mean, jump in and add whatever you want at some point because I don't want this to be the Joe show here. I did express some of my thoughts earlier on this and every other issue. But we're not we're not dealing with sports here. This isn't what we're talking about. It's not shut up in play. Right. There, there will be repercussions on both sides of this. But as Dave said in his opening statement, we hold ourselves to the standard where the First Amendment matters so much, and it does, right. I mean, that's, if we want to get historical on everybody. That's what we left as a nation. To get what we have we left a nation that did not Allow us the freedom of speech, the freedom of religion, the freedom of press, the freedom to assemble the freedom to protest that they didn't allow that. But now we have that. And as Dave said, We are now shunned for doing those things. So at what point rayshawn I'll kick this question to you. What At what point does the peaceful protest not the writing and the looting but at what point to the peaceful protests make a difference? And and steps are taken. I mean, this is a this is a fight that has been fought for. So very long. So what At what point? Do athletes stepping off the court? What At what point does that make a difference?

Rayshawn Buchanan : 16:15

Um, well, I mean, I think it starts it just start now. You know, um, you know, like I said, like we talked about, we didn't think that it was something that was going to actually happened, but the fact that they came together, you know, talked it out, thought it out. Um, this is actually what Kyrie Irving was, was thinking about, you know, and you know, I knew I had to bring this up when we talk about this because I remember slamming him I think some of us have slammed him for his thoughts

Joe Malkin : 16:45

very rarely agree with him, but he was spot on,

Rayshawn Buchanan : 16:48

yeah, Yes, he was. Yeah, he was he was spot on about what he was saying. And, you know, some some old hemming apology, to be honest, um, you know, he talked about it being big into basketball. And, you know, we just made this a default. Well, you're just saying this because you're not playing it's easy to say no play when you're not playing, you're not going to be in the playoffs or whatever. Um, but to answer the question, like the peaceful approach says, process start, it starts with stuff like this. So, um, but to be honest, like, it can't just be a game. It can't just be two games like they may go ahead and just be go drastically and just say, you know, we're just going to end the season. Um, and I want to say this on air, I want to say this for the record, um, I had to check my privilege to check my tech my miso ego at the door. So yesterday I was I was thinking like, you know, I'm okay, I want to see the SEC around, I want to see this, I'll be speaking about this I want to see, but it's like, wait a minute. Am I saying this? Um, because I'm bored and want entertainment? And the answer was, yes, I want to entertainment. I would and I want to keep doing the show. So you know, we have a vested interest in it, but I had to think about it as a black man, I still want the same thing they want and you know, I want the injustice I want the injustice to stop. I want the you know, I want the shootings to stop I want the, you know, whatever negative is happening. I wanna I want all the stop so I really remember having checked myself yesterday. I'm like, wait a minute, like, yeah, you want them to play but this is not about the second round of playoffs personally. This is this is about it. They're going to not and I'm glad that other athletes have joined in and and, you know, I said hopefully it stays this peaceful and hopefully they now bring more change than they ever expected.

Joe Malkin : 18:35

And that's that's where it gets interesting, isn't it? Like, shouldn't we all want all of those things you just mentioned, which is which is the I think the issue that I have, and rayshawn to go to your point about about the protests and you know, it starts now. The problem is it started so very long ago. And we talked just before we got on that it was there was a resurgence about four years ago. In a in a preseason NFL game, where a quarterback for the San Francisco 49ers by the name of Colin Kaepernick took a knee during the national anthem and shocked the entire sports world shocked the nation shocked the world that he that he took a knee during the national Anthem of the United States. And that was four years ago to the day, which is kind of eerie in a way. But also why why now? Why now is the Commissioner of football saying Oh, I should have listened then I've always learned in cooking that it's best to put the pasta in the pot before the water boils over the sides, and not wait for not wait for something bad to happen before we prevent things. So, I mean, this started so long ago. And Dave, I can hear you over there. And I'll let you take over here because I know you have some thoughts on this. Go ahead.

Dave Clarke : 20:08

Um, I just I think it's such a good point you just brought up where it's it's this thing of the the idea that people missed the compute completely missed the point of Colin Kaepernick protests, you know, and even though he was saying it, they completely missed the point. They missed the point of the George Floyd protest that happened, you know, this year. And you start to ask yourself, why why do they keep missing the point when you're explaining it to them? Why are vast swaths of people completely missing the point? It's because they don't want to hear it. Roger Goodell didn't want to hear it. You know, he didn't want to be at the center of this conversation. He just wanted to keep making money hand over fist with the NFL, which, you know, I mean, there's a part of me that, that doesn't begrudge him that emotion. I begrudge him his reaction, and I begrudge him the idea. I regret it everything he did after that and how he completely screwed up his reaction to the to the Kaepernick protests, but like Ray said, it's in us to have personal biases, it's in us to have the first thing that happens. The first thing that you think is well, how does this affect me? Like how, what do I want you know, and even Ray as a Black man was like, oh, but I want basketball to still be playing, you know what I mean? And it's like so then you look around the rest of the country. And you can understand that how people don't immediately in initially, themselves understand what's going on, because it's not their experience, you know, this.

Joe Malkin : 21:44

Isn't that ironic at the same time, like, let's stop and think about how ironic that is. So we here today, and kind of hypocritical in a lot of ways, if you if you look at again, I can't believe there's two sides of this argument. But if you look at not this argument, but just in general, there's two sides of the coin, the MBA shock and awe, right, like, hey, by the way, we're just not showing up. We're gonna sit in the locker. I'm like the Orlando Magic around the floor. The bucks don't come out for pregame warmups. And that's and that's that and now all of a sudden, that's, well, what what's going on? And what do human beings not like the most is Sudden and immediate change. But aren't these in justices? And I want to throw this out there for everybody listening? Because you can you're allowed to have your own thoughts on these. It doesn't mean you're right. And most of the time, you're probably wrong. But when those things happen when when the shootings of human beings, happens at the hand of people who are intended to protect the community, isn't that shocking? Ah, isn't that the same thing? Don't people jump to conclusions about the exact same thing? So while we're sitting here going, Well, I want basketball. And other people are saying, Well, I don't want civil unrest. So you have to you have to check yourself at the door, as Ray said about, about jet you know, check your privilege, right? Why Why is not having sports wrong? But the other thing Okay, so Dave, I just want because

Dave Clarke : 23:35

it doesn't it doesn't it doesn't you don't you? It's like there's there's no definite answer. It's a good question to like, think about but the first thing is that you don't even you and I and Joe don't look like anyone that's getting murdered in by police in these videos. So whilst we maybe have the kind of perspective or view that like we can empathize and relate, I mean, we're from the east coast, you know what I mean? Like people on coasts have have that view, like we're in that echo chamber already. We're in that kind of progressive echo chamber already. There's, there's people that just, they're not evil people, they just get bad information. You know what I mean? It's like every piece of social media, everybody lives inside their own echo chamber. And there's the spectrum of political bias runs a Gambit in our group. There's six of us, and we have conversations that Where we differ completely politically but it has it retains civility because we all have a vested interest in one another, and in in retaining civility for this product that we put out, right? But because social media is just the bathroom wall and it completely takes down this, this veil of society, people's true biases actually come out which could end up in the long term and I'm talking hundreds of years be a positive but right now if you're if the to answer your question, why right now, why is it like why is it all like coming up right now? It's it's because it's always been there. It's just people are showing their asses now. You know what I mean? Like, that's just that's just what's happening. I think it's my theory. I don't have the answers. I'm not a sports podcaster

Joe Malkin : 25:05

Yeah, well, exactly. And that's why you know, I keep trying to make sure we don't we don't go into territory that we don't belong in and, but you know, racism, because that's kind of what we're boiling down to and rayshawn you can correct me if I'm wrong, but racism is Kind of what in a lot of ways were talking about. And one sport that has always been at the forefront of attempting to tackle racism is international football or soccer as we like to call it here in the United States. And it has worked and also completely failed. We have seen players at the international level walk off of fields because they felt they were I shouldn't say felt that because something was said to them from the stands and they took a stand and either went into the stands or just refused to play. Entire teams have walked off the field because stuff has been said from from the stands. And this is where those lines blur as Greg again said in the open and why we're here because those lines are getting blurry. Where sports I don't want to say matters. less, but it is just a game at the end of the day, right? Yes, we consume it and we give our money to these teams, these organizations, these TV outlets and that's why these guys are paid like they are. And it there's just so many layers and I can't even wrap my head around it and I but I keep looking down at rayshawn and I'm like, Ray take this over and give me something because man it's it's it's so interesting, interesting is such a weird word to use. But when it comes to sports and what they mean to us clearly they are very important to us I mean ratio like I could listen to you read the basketball reference comm page for the Boston Celtics and I could, I could probably just relax listening to you talk about because That's just how good you are with basketball. I mean, I don't want to listen to Dave talk about Liverpool Football, that would probably just put me to sleep or makes me really angry. But Ray, I mean, you know, we're sitting here talking about sports. And you know, you said before we got on here, say our piece, and I feel as though the six of us have always been aligned in our thoughts on on these specific issues, the issues that are going on, because I think we're all human individuals who know that a human is a human, regardless of what they look like. But right I mean, give me give me some more outlook on you know, whether it's your feelings on the situation or, you know, sports and racism or whatever, whatever you want to say.

Rayshawn Buchanan : 28:17

No, so I share the same sentiment with you, Joe, about Dave and Liverpool before we get to the next point, as well. About that, but it's okay. Um, no, but I mean, I'm glad that you guys have said those things as you said, um, we get to me, that's how the conversation goes further. You know, I think sometimes, you know, we get a word about, you know, saying the wrong thing, or we don't know what to say, because we haven't been in a situation and that's okay. As long as you're sharing how you empathize with something, and that you tried, that you seek understanding, because and not seek understanding what to be silent really means that you're being compliant unless you're okay with what's going on. So it's important to speak out. So whether you're using Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, you know, you send out a text message or whatever, um, do that, you know, tell tell a friend that you have this a person of color, you know, how you feel about them. But let it be genuine, not just because something something's going on. Like I've known you guys for 10 plus years, um, and it wasn't and it wasn't Just because something happened to George floor that hurts you guys, you know? Yes. And like, I think that that's another thing too. But it's to tie it back into with the athletes. I want to touch on the NFL. Because someone asked me that text me Well, you know, do you think that the NFL is going to play? And I say, Yeah, I do. Um, I don't think that they're going to say maybe much on the issue and that's mainly because they're, what's the word there? So then they not proactive they they're reactionary. So something happens and they want to react, which is why I brought you did I was going on this redemption tour, so to speak. And, you know, yes, we know they dropped the ball but Colin kapernick they've dropped the ball. What a lot of things in the NFL, but I think now they need to lean on the Richard Sherman's little world. They need to lean on someone like Brian Clark is not playing anymore, but that's someone that they should connect with. When they do NFL symposiums, like had these comments. We have with these players of how to make things better, not just within the NFL, but how the NFL is going to convey a message to his audience. And so the world, we can no longer be reactionary, we have to be proactive with how we handle this. So whether that's a sports, whether that's an everyday life, we just have to get there. So, like, I want to I appreciate you, Joe, I appreciate you, Dave. I appreciate you, Craig, for being individuals, I want to be agents of change, and not to stand by the sidelines and let things just happen and just be said, just because you're scared of what someone's going to say or think about too. Honestly, the hell with them. And if you're someone that doesn't want to speak on that, then To hell with you, too.

Dave Clarke : 31:05

It's funny though. Well said. It's funny that that this spectrum that it runs, though, isn't it? Because Yeah, you have you literally have one set one and it where it's us trying our best to have a conversation about race about how it relates to the subject matter of our podcasts about how we relate to each other. And you end but you also have Colin Kaepernick kneeling. And a group of people just saying Black Lives Matter just matter not like better or like above or anything just matter just like exist and and just want to be taken as a human life. Right. And sports to relate it back to that has always been both progressive and racist at the exact same time. You know, it's it's like,

Joe Malkin : 31:51

especially the NBA.

Dave Clarke : 31:53

Yeah, I mean, it's like you know, the last I read today that the last boycott of a game was actually Bill Russell and the Celtics in the 60s, the last time players are in response to racial injustice, less time players set out which you know, Boston's got its own set of problems with with race with race and everything that go along with it. But the spectrum that it runs is is people saying keep politics out of sports. Keep this out of sports. It's always been a part of sports. It never has it, you know, it can be Hold itself up as a paragon when baseball players are crossing the color barrier, but then you go, why was there a color barrier for so long? You know what I mean? Like why? You know, and and it can be people sitting on the sidelines, like you were saying like yelling at players, but also watching these players participate in the commodity that you're purchasing, you know what I mean? It's like, your How can you watch basketball and be a fan of the NBA and say, Oh, God, just just get on with it. Like, it's like it's predominantly an African American League. You know what I mean? Like what they say is what you should take seriously. I just thought that that

Rayshawn Buchanan : 33:04

that happens that happens because you know, and you know, we've all been guilty of this as well. I think well, I don't want to speak for you. I'll speak for myself. Um, when you think when you see someone getting a certain amount of money, you just they just want to take whatever so because the bronze getting, you know 30 plus million Russell was was Getting 30 plus million like I mean for instance I remember a few years ago I think a Utah a fan do something racially charged to him and you know Russell Westbrook is from LA and you know so he he responded accordingly and you know so all he's he's Russell Westbrook off with it's like no he's a human being and you just can't say what you want to say. Because you want yeah because it makes it makes the millions of dollars and you want to tell an athlete like that's that's insane that's a jump of argument

Joe Malkin : 33:56

that tells me a way to because you look at the the the level and the work that the and this this blows me away in so many factions of life. But when you look at professional athletes and and I want to use Richard Sherman as a good example Richard Sherman is a black athlete. Richard Sherman has a four year degree from him. Stanford University. Richard Sherman is a brilliant human being. Just because he plays a sport, doesn't mean he's not smart. Like people can listen to this podcast and go, Well, what do you what do you guys have any say talking about this one? You're not black to, you know, all you do you just talk about sports shut up and it's like, well, no, because you're allowed, you're allowed to have an opinion and you're allowed to have a view on things. Even if you don't agree with the person. That's that's voicing that opinion. And unfortunately for us, that goes for the other side to which, you know, that's that's just life but, and Colin Kaepernick. It's just so funny because people make excuses for professional athletes and specifically black professional athletes. Colin Kaepernick takes a knee and starts protesting social injustice, and people immediately talk about how he was adopted. by a white family, a rich white family and got a full ride to Nevada. It's like, well, he didn't choose the family. He was adopted by number one. And number two, his hard work and athletic prowess is what got him a scholarship.

Dave Clarke : 35:39

Now, I'll tell you something else on that point. I'm sorry to interrupt you, but it Well, I think that's a really good point. And I think that I'll tell you one thing that we know being sports fans being people that do a sports podcast, you don't get to the top 1% of the top 1% of the biggest sports in the country without being smart. Like you just don't like you can do you can do like Oh, he's a dumb jock. You can you can do that stereotype because you've watched The Breakfast Club one too many times all you want. The fact of the matter is it raw talent doesn't get you there. And regardless of anything else, like raw talent just doesn't get you there. You have to be smart. Like there's there's players because of and we're not going to get into this I know but because of the disproportionate wealth gap between races, there's plenty There's African American players in top, top sports, that were in environments that the people criticizing them have no idea about, like, have no concept of understanding. And they have to be so smart to navigate those environments without without being destroyed by them and then make it to the top level. And today just because they're playing a sport success is still success, you know, I mean, like they still did it.

Joe Malkin : 36:49

Well, and that's and that's another point. I want to I want to touch on that. And my next point is not to diminish the, the careers and the livelihoods of teachers is rayshawn is one of doctors have nurses. I know people in all of these professions are police officers, firefighters, it doesn't doesn't matter. This isn't to diminish that but going off of what Dave just said, when the guy making millions of dollars, who has worked his butt off is on the court or on the field or on the ice, wherever he is and then he opens his mouth. That is that is okay. We probably should listen At some point because those people as you just said, Dave, I mean whether you have a silver spoon in your mouth or not, you've probably dealt with some kind of adversity in your life. But the it's it's always funny to me that the people in the stands that paid $70 for a ticket $10 for a beer $7 for a hot dog are the ones that are belligerent and yelling racial slurs at the guys on the court and think that that's okay, like that. That blows me away is that you think you think you can walk in get drunk and belligerent and just yet like, I mean, okay. I, I have yelled at players and officials at a sporting events I think we all have, I'm never going to yell something that is going to personally attack that person. And I'm not saying that makes me any better or worse than anyone else in the world, but I've never been one to yell out something that attacks them, their character or their skin color or color. You want to yell at somebody about their performance on the field?

Rayshawn Buchanan : 38:29

Right? Right. But you know why that's the case though, because you know, it's not that deep. Like you said, it says there's just a game again today, right? So, um, I think I see Oh God, I forgot what game I went to. might have been Yeah, actually Oh, when I was done in Miami, what do you see yourself as heat? And I was down you know, in the 100 level, and I was on the Bron James all night. Got no hair. You know, you can't you can't

Joe Malkin : 38:59

Well, he does now

Rayshawn Buchanan : 39:00

Yeah, yeah, well, yeah, it's kind of in the middle. It looks a whole looks a whole lot differently. And we just ended everything. Oh, no, I'm just kidding. But no, no, but no, yeah, I was getting his hair, his headband looking crazy. His jump shot being off. I'm saying whatever I need, I need to say, but I said it was never going to be a derogatory term. Even though he might find the hair job offensive. But no, whatever, it's okay. That's why, at that point, you have a million dollar side by some.

Joe Malkin : 39:32

Maybe, maybe it was you to cause him to go out and get plugs

Rayshawn Buchanan : 39:36

it. Maybe it wasn't me, you know, I'll say, I'll take credit for that. But it's just like, it's just having to know like, Look, it's never that deep guys like so. If you're listening to somewhere or you're listening to this in the future, know that when you go to a sporting event in the future, listen, you want to get on the athlete, that's fine. There's nothing wrong with that. But you're not to yell something derogatory to anything, I think that it's okay. Really, it says a lot about you. And it just says a lot about how much you're not looking to change. And, you know, I kind of want to shift gears for a second because we talked about this in the pre show, too. Um, I want to give a shout out to Kenny Smith. Kenny Smith, who is he's one of the people on inside the NBA on TNT. And, you know, you know, this is gonna be a lot There must be some game plan as we know and you know, so he spoke up there and you know he mentioned about how you know he was his head was about to explode. You know, he just kind of thought really felt on fire and really just impromptu just made a decision to you know really walk up and leave. And you know, kudos Ernie Johnson who said no he respect he respected that decision

Joe Malkin : 40:45

the best in the game

Rayshawn Buchanan : 40:46

Yeah, he is he's awesome and you know he respected decision immediately on I'm hoping others other announces other sports shows they do that so whether it's people are undisputed whether this on First things first, whatever. I'm just I hope I hope people follow that and not because they've seen it, but because they really feel that that's something that would help maybe daters don't want to talk about it in that in that moment, and that's okay. Um, but you know, just Oh, God, you

Joe Malkin : 41:15

know, I was just gonna say and if you have the platform to do it, do it. I know, many people on social media whether I know them personally or have seen them Through through other conversations. So many people jump at the notion that these these guys these, whether it's, you know, a professional athlete or a broadcaster, or whatever it is, again, going back to the whole idea of, you know, shut up and play or and that's not your job like, no, but you go on Facebook and do the same thing and I know what you do for a living too. So we're but it's freedom of

Rayshawn Buchanan : 41:51

speech, freedom of speech. Well, right, exactly.

Joe Malkin : 41:54

That's exactly. Yeah. And that's what I said before, right? Like, it doesn't matter if you agree or disagree with their opinion, some people's opinions are blatantly wrong as we as we now know, the people that decide to look at factors that do not correlate to the outcome of a situation as using that as evidence of why things happen as I'm doing it in code because I really don't want to go down that that path. rode but you know, it's and to kind of make it a little this isn't light but a lighter topic. Lauren Duvernay tardif is an NFL lineman for the Kansas City Chiefs. Canadian Canadian born he is a, I believe he is black. And he has a doctorate in medicine and Master's in surgery. And he came out a couple years ago talking about CTE and concussions. Very, very well spoken young men. And I say young man, cuz he's four years younger than me. It's always really weird when I am now older than the guys that I'm watching play sports on TV. But it came out and said something and again, people were like, what is this guy know, how can he talk about and it's like, well, first of all, he's an NFL football players and he's alignment. So he's very likely had a concussion, but he's also literally a doctor, literally a doctor and when it comes comes down to and kind of my point of what I'm going to hear is, and I think we would all agree, it's amazing in the world, the age of information that we live in, that people can be so ignorant and not do a simple search on the internet. Or even say, you know, like, like we do so often with these issues, because we do talk to him daily is like, hey, Ray, how do you feel about this? You know, I came on, before we got on the show and gave Ray one of my opinions on this whole thing. not expecting the answer I got back was that he agrees with me. And, and it's okay if he didn't, but I was I was pleasantly surprised when he did. And the point is, is that if you can have a conversation instead of telling somebody to shut up and dribble or shut up and play, and you can just have a conversation with the person and hear them out and hear their experiences because there are things that I'm making this about people not not race, there are things that Greg has gone through. There are things that Dave has gone through, there are things that rayshawn has gone through and things that I have gone through, that we've gone through in our lives, that the other one of those other guys may not know about. But if it comes up in conversation, you damn well, better believe that we're all going to talk about those things, and have a conversation, to understand what's actually going on, and understand and experience that one of our fellow human beings I don't even care if you're a friend or an acquaintance or a complete stranger. Just talk and shut up and talk which is weird to say, right? But it's, it's so true. Just listen. And you can you can just do so many things if you just listen like, right? I mean, he's right here. rayshawn is no better or worse than me. Because of the color of his skin. But I can tell you he's a teacher of young people in a pretty tough city. And he does a pretty good job from what I can tell. And he survived Miami so better than I can do. You know, so I mean, I don't mean to get too deep and pull it away from sports and Dave, I can kind of see like a confused look on your Facebook Like you're trying to put everything together and I feel like I'm railroading is Dave like, No, no, no,

Dave Clarke : 45:49

no, no, I think it's a good point. I think that I just got me thinking as you were talking about it, it's like it. I feel like I remember being in school. And I think that I was kind of taught that we'd fix racism, by the time that by the time I got here, you know what I mean? By like, by Whoa. Just like it just, you know, when you, you learn about like, it's like, look here, but here's like, here's Martin Luther King, you know, like, he did all this stuff in the 1960s. And like, he fixed racism, like I feel like that's the veil thing underneath everything. And it's like, I think that's where I'm starting to think that's where people are are coming from like, on the internet, you know, they're kind of like, well, but don't don't complain, look at look at look at them they go. And it's like, but when you say like just ask somebody about their experiences like that's when I've learned way more like since since leaving school and I'm sure it's different now like what, you know when I was born when I was growing up because I'm old but you know, it's like when I speak to people and I learned about their experiences, like that's what, that's what I've learned about, you know what I mean? That's when people go like, no, it's not happening to you. It's happening to people that look like me. So just take my word for it. I go like, Yeah, all right. Like, makes a lot more sense to me. What do I know? You know, I mean, that's, I know, that's the only reason I was making a face because I was just like, I'm just thinking back. It's like, man, I got so gypped you know, it's like Nobody. Nobody ever I wish I had a teacher like Ray, you know, because that's always something that was my first black teacher was when I got to college. All right, so like, what's what's that all about? You know what I mean? Like there's, there's issues could be there

Joe Malkin : 47:21

could be the area you're in too, and I don't want A hijacker turned to that conversation. But it does also depend on where the opportunity is, but was an opportunity to take it away from somebody. And that's why the Rooney Rule was instilled in the NFL, and a lot of teams. And for those of you that don't know what the Rooney Rule is, in its infancy form. It basically says that you, every team, when you're hiring a head coach, you have to interview a minority candidate for that position. I know Ray Sean's given air quotes. Well, but that's where I'm going is like, so if we were on the, the SMS w podcast and like, we didn't, we didn't have a host, but we knew we wanted Mike as our next host. But there was a rule within the bylaws of podcasts that we had to interview somebody, a minority candidate, we just be like, Alright, well, right. We're going to interview you to say we did it, but we're actually going to give the job to Mike. But that's what that's what the Rooney Rule was. That's what it was. happening with the Rooney Rule in so many ways. And now they've made it so that you actually have to not only interview one minority candidate, but two in one has to be from outside the organization. So I mean, you can still mess with that a little bit. But you know, to go back to Dave's point, like you didn't have a black teacher until you got to college. That's, I mean, that's pretty cool. Good. They're a college professor. Like that's awesome. Like, if you imagine ray is a college professor, that would be awesome, dude, you gotta you could

Rayshawn Buchanan : 49:00

That'd be another show. But I want to I want to add, as he was saying, right, so this is on on football, but it's I mean, on a Rooney Rule, but is tied to that, right. So Nate McMillan, who has been in Indiana the last four years. He was also relieved of his duties yesterday. And it made me think about how Brett Brown was given seven years, even though part of it was a problem. You know, but it's just like how many how many guys that like Nate McMillan would have got seven years to get that type of turnaround right? So Nate McMillan had a deeper hurt Brogdon was out Jeremy lamb was out. There was you know, there were some bonus now out.

Dave Clarke : 49:44

So something is missing to all stars against Miami Heat Yeah, exactly.

Rayshawn Buchanan : 49:48

So yeah, right so somebody somebody players that you're missing and before he can clean on his desk its Happy trails. And once again other coaches have gotten longer, you know, longer ropes, you know, to do the same job. And, you know, next thing you know, is like, he's gone. So it's like that that's another thing too, that just has to stop. Because whether they think oh, we're not feeding etc. And so while you want

Joe Malkin : 50:17

to play devil's advocate and totally jump on you there is is that organizationally, do you mean, is that is that based on that organization and that organizations management?

Rayshawn Buchanan : 50:31

I mean, I don't think I think herb Simon is the owner like Kevin Pritchard? Like I don't I don't think Kevin Christian has known Nate McMillan for a long time because they used to be over important. So they he knows Nate, I think that's why he brought him over there to Indiana. Arm makes it tough coach Nate has 661 wins in the regular season. You know, if you listen to look it up. I don't I don't want to say I'm right. But yet either way he has over 600 wins in his career on the macro coach, he's been to the playoffs. And I felt like he was in he was gotten a broad deal. Like I felt like he should have been able to get at least one more year with that course. I mean, yeah, sure, you know, but yeah,

Joe Malkin : 51:09

and that's why would that have would that have happened with another coach and that this is this is

Rayshawn Buchanan : 51:16

the So no, I don't I don't because i don't i don't think so be like say I think about Brett Brown. I think about someone Okay, perfect example. In the NBA, someone like George call, George Powell has done nothing in years. But he continuously got here continuously had a job. It's like, bro, you made the finals with Seattle and 96 I was I was sipping juice boxes on the playground when he was in the finals, bro. I'm still

Joe Malkin : 51:39

you still use Xbox on the playground?

Rayshawn Buchanan : 51:41

I am too, but I'll tell you about it. But you know, but it's like, it's crazy.

Dave Clarke : 51:51

these guys away for for me to believe that there's insidious and systemic racism in hiring practices in sports. The easiest way to get me to believe it is that you can tell me that you can't even stop police from shooting black people on video and getting away with it. So there's probably some insidious hiring and firing practices that isn't on video that isn't easy to point to evidence of. It's like you literally are just you're like at the end of every show. rayshawn says arrest of cops who killed Briana Taylor. What's he actually asking for? Like if we actually break that down? People cops broke into the wrong place. apartment is shot a lady while she was sleeping in her bed. And those cops are still just fine. Like they woke up and had their Wheaties this morning. No problem. And that's the, for me the easiest The easiest way to believe it. I know you don't want to believe it because we all have the face of the oppressor. We all have the face of privilege except for Ray. We all have to everybody in this podcast right now has that but you got to believe it because like, Look, they can't even stop getting shot on the street on video. You know what I mean? Of course, of course, those things are going on. To me at least.

Joe Malkin : 52:55

Yeah, sure. And I mean, those are the things that we see right, as we're getting close to the end here. So I'll go around the room in just a second to get final thoughts. But you know, that's, that's kind of where we are with this conversation. Right? That's why that's why we're doing this episode three of this podcast is because an incident occurred in terms of a cop involved shooting that has destroyed To the sports world. If it didn't disrupt the sports world, we wouldn't be here having this conversation. And a lot of people are gonna disagree with us. And some people are going to agree with this conversation, excuse me conversation. But the reason we're having it is because these things continue to happen. And the definition of insanity is to continue to do the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result. And that's kind of what's happening here in the in the in our world right now. You know, people, and before we get into laws and politics, people talk about the things that go on in this country, in such a vacuum, because everyone looks at us from the outside world and thinks we're nuts. And we are as a society as a whole society. But as we got to be better, and it it starts at the top, the very top and it trickles down to private citizens. But it starts with elected officials that includes many sheriff's offices around the country. And it goes into police departments around the country. where, you know, we talked about it earlier, there's a chain of no chain of command. That's what I call it earlier, but there's a line of succession and the power used by police officers. And if it wasn't, if it gets to the if something gets to the point where you're disrupting the sports world, which it clearly takes a lot to disrupt that there's clearly a problem. Clearly an absolutely a problem. But before literally right before I send it over to Dave for final thoughts and Ray you'll you'll go last but it was it was reported just before we got on the air here that that incident in Kenosha, Wisconsin. It was one officer that fired several shots no other officer fired a shot. Why not? Not Why did not why didn't another officer fire shot? Why did one officer fire seven shots at a man who was unarmed? So and you know what it continues to happen in the same form and fashion where a police officer discharges his weapon at a black person, but you know, just stop on both sides train better if you know what athletes do when when they're making mistakes, they train better. So let's bring it back to sports there. And you know, David I'm gonna go over to you for your final thoughts.

Dave Clarke : 56:26

Thanks, Joe. I think for you know, the interest of full transparency like a part of the reason we started to put this show together today, even though we recorded that one other one yesterday, and we're putting this out tomorrow is because a lot of the stuff that happened today made a lot of the stuff we talked about yesterday, old news, so we had to react. But another large part of the reason is because we're human beings that have empathy, and if you have any empathy, any at all, you should be exhausted right now. You should be so tired. You should be so tired of listening to this. You should be this tired as Kenny Smith was today as tired as the jet was that he had to leave work because he was just sick of it. And he wanted to stand in solidarity but I saw the look on his face. He's just so tired, man. He's so sick of it. And so am I like, no more basketball until everyone can stop being racist and shooting black people. That's fair. That's what you do for your like little kids, right? It's like you You see, if you keep screwing things up, you don't get any privileges and that's fine. You know, that's fine. I'm okay with that. So just stop. Like you said, Joe, please for the love of God, just just stop.

Joe Malkin : 57:34

Yep, go off of that. And then go to Ray is that I think, since about mid March, we've all been pretty exhausted with a pandemic, multiple shootings, a lot of issues in our world. And all I see, personally, is people taking sides, when whether it's a red side or a blue side or a black side or a white side, everybody's taking sides and in my personal opinion, when it comes to kneeling during the national anthem, and I know I kind of took a turn here, but this was something I wanted to bring up in this My personal opinion, stop playing the national anthem before every single sporting event in the country. And that's not to deter kneeling. It's to turn the violence that comes with a song that is supposed to be about our nation and bringing us together. Regardless of what your feelings are, we shouldn't play it before every sporting event.

Craig D'Alessandro : 58:52

Arn't we one of the only major countries in the world that do that?

Joe Malkin : 58:55

Yes, yeah. and Canada, but that's because that's because they're so intertwined with us, but Canada just started the Canadian Premier League Soccer League last year. They don't play the Canadian national anthem.

Dave Clarke : 59:08

Ireland does it but coup attacks that's on slaps. Okay, I'm done.

Joe Malkin : 59:12

Are you are you from the I thought you were from Cleveland? So and then, my other Two points is when it comes to red and blue. In terms of politics, they're both wrong. And when it comes to black and white, we're all people. We all bleed red blood. We all bruise. You know, we're like fruits. We all grow hair. We all we're all human. So get over it, because that's just the way it is. It's time to it's time to cut the BS and figure out a way to fix things instead of constantly arguing on social media about how you're right and someone that doesn't have the same views as he was wrong. And to close us out rayshawn beginning

Rayshawn Buchanan : 1:00:08

so for a start, I think he just set up in hopes No, I'm just kidding. I had to lighten the mood for a second. No, um, I believe that it started But legislation, I'll say it one more time. It starts with legislation. It has to be things that are written in. That's another change. Because we can we can talk all day, we could talk to the blue in the face, unless you have things that are written on paper. That's the reason why we're still in a lot of the mess that we're in. We're still dealing with stuff that was written in 1776, where black people are still considered three fifths of a person. So because of that, there's a lot of things that won't change because of stuff. They're still written in laws. That would never create it for people that look like yours truly. And lastly, I just want to say, you know, United we stand divided we fall. You know, it was let's say it was cool to see the NBA start that I expected them to start it but it was cool to see the MLS It was cool to CW MMA. It was cool to see it really cool to see Major League Baseball follow suit. I will see if the NFL does it. I don't know. I doubt that. I also doubt the NFL will do it as well. But we'll see we're pleasantly pleasantly surprised when that time comes. But as always our end every show with this and so it happens. You know, y'all new service the cops that killed Briana Taylor.

Joe Malkin : 1:01:38

Thank you, Ray. Thank you, Dave and Craig, of course, our EP, thank you very much I know that this isn't, you know, we tried to keep it loose at some points in this. But you know, this is this is gonna sound privileged, but it doesn't, it doesn't come from a privileged standpoint. You're messing with our sports. Stop it. All right, like it's really it's very simple, but that's gonna end it there. So thank you all for joining us for Episode Three of the SMS w podcast, a little bit of an amendment to our recording from the 25th. So we hope you enjoy and enjoyed both shows that came out today. And we want to think again, Craig, for helping us get this together. rayshawn we we are so happy you enjoyed your sub on your porch. And Dave, thank you for joining us from balmy LA. And I'm Joe Malkin and we will talk to you for the next NSW podcast.

Craig D'Alessandro : 1:02:40

Thanks for tuning in to this episode of the ss w podcast. The SNSW podcast is a one hour weekly two hour monthly podcast recapping the biggest news in the world sorts with the New England flavor. The show notes and transcripts of today's episode can be found in the description below, as well as our WordPress and buzzsprout pages. This is your first time finding us please consider subscribing. We are on iTunes, Spotify, Google and wherever you generally find your podcast. Be sure to rate us leave a review of any of our shows. We always appreciate the feedback and until next time, I'm Craig D'Alessandro. Thanks for listening.