#9 - Boston Celtics Autopsy & Contenders and Pretenders in the NFL

Craig D'Alessandro : 0:24

On this episode of the SNSW podcast, it's time to perform an autopsy as we try and dissect the cause of the Boston Celtics elimination from their third Eastern Conference Finals in the past four years. We'll also break down week three of the NFL and revisit which teams are contenders or pretenders as we enter the quarter mark of the NFL season. We'll also hand out this week's Forrest Gump award with all the pomp and circumstance but first This episode is being brought to you by BOXO Crafts, BOXO is an arts and crafts focus kids subscription box. BOXO is a parent run company that combines creativity and convenience in one monthly package delivered right to your door. BOXO's premier box BOXO holidays contains four separate art projects to get you and your family into the holiday spirit. Whether it's Halloween, Hanukkah, or Easter they've got you covered with holiday fun. BOXO, we can't wait to see you create check out BOXO.com and exclusively to our listeners enter promo code SNSW for 10% off your first order. That's b o x o crafts.com promo code SNSW. The SNSW podcast is a one our weekly, two our monthly podcast breaking down all the biggest news in the world of sports with the New England flavor. If this is your first time finding us, please consider subscribing. It's easiest way to see we publish new episodes. We are on Apple, Spotify, Google and wherever you generally get your podcasts. Be sure to rate us and leave a review. We always appreciate your feedback. Follow us on social media. All of our links will be in the show notes. And now without further ado, this is the SNSW podcast. But it's all relative.

Joe Malkin : 2:15

Thanks, Craig. My name is Joe Malkin. And I'm here this week with Dave Clark. And Rayshawn Buchanan and of course the best producer that we could find. Craig D'Alessandro guys How we doing tonight? Man?

Dave Clarke : 2:27

So the more abuse you heard the Craig the better I do

Joe Malkin : 2:30

we don't we don't. We don't want to hurl any abuse at Craig he does enough for us already. So it guys Welcome into episode nine of the SN SW podcast. We have a lot to get to this week in a in a small package. So let's get right into it. The Boston Celtics are dropped out of the Eastern Conference Finals on Sunday night to the Miami Heat in six games. What are initially our takeaways from the series and the Celtics team.

Rayshawn Buchanan : 2:58

So first, I want to give credit to the Miami Heat for getting the job done. They were the tougher team. They were stronger team. And at the end of the day, they were more unified. So and I can end it with that. However, no Giannis Antetokounmpo no Kawhi Leonard, no LeBron James. There was no excuse for this Boston team not to get it done this time around. And as disappointing. Actually, I'm much more stuff further. I think this is actually worse than the last that we had to Milwaukee Bucks last year, mainly because they weren't the favorite. And they should have got the job done. But they didn't. And you know, hopefully they learn from this but right now as things as sucks and it's unfortunate that they went out this way because they basically quit and that's how I see it.

Dave Clarke : 3:42

Yeah, with you. I mean, it's just very upsetting. Like the star of the show. I know we do a sports podcast and Joe's like, reminder Dave, the Celtics lost in six games they eat as if like every Laker fan I know isn't reminded me the same thing. Same story different years. All I've heard for the past few days. And it's not wrong, but it's also a little bit not right. I mean, we still have this young core, there's still a massive upside. I totally agree with right, like it definitely hurts. It's definitely a kick to the nads. I thought we were gonna do better because there was less competition in front of us. But then it turned out there wasn't really like I do think that the heat we're, you know, on paper, okay. Yanis wasn't there sure. No, quiet great. But like, bam came out of nowhere, Jimmy Butler, you know, playing out of his mind, it's like, on paper going in. Sure we should be able to get through but like that he team did emerge as like a legitimate, you know, a legitimate team. And I'm free to say that because Mike isn't here to go. Like I said, that was actually going to be my next point. As you said that was a you know, Mike, Mike said that when they were in the midst of that series with the Bucs, right, he called it perfectly honestly, because they are other things. He said they're gonna be there. They're tough, they're gritty. They're beat not be not passes on hustle plays, which is the most frustrating part of that series is that like every hustle play, we're getting beat on, which is like so not our identity. So not our Mo. And like that. I mean, all that stuff just turned out to be true. So credit to him.

Joe Malkin : 5:06

So So going back to you mentioned Jimmy Butler, and he's clearly the biggest name on the Miami Heat. rayshawn is he big enough to you to have beaten the Boston Celtics and I asked this because I have a take on this and I want to hear your thoughts. On it was Jimmy Butler enough of a star for you. For the to beat the Celtics team,

Rayshawn Buchanan : 5:31

I actually had to go back to a tick I made a few years ago when a team he was on before the Chicago Bulls had went up to bow against the Celtics in the first round. And I remember saying to our friend, Tom, I say, you know, I say he's a talented player, but I would never, I would never be scared of a Jimmy Butler lead team. Now, fast forward to three years later now, I still really wasn't fulfilled with Jimmy Butler that team but however, when you have guys around you that are willing to be in be in their role and really flourish in a role. So drug It forces and his role, you know, tell the hero really has, has has stepped up in that series and said, Hey, you know, what, I'm someone that could shoot the lights out. I'm someone that's going to become a better defender. And, you know, he first and his role, family were bent bomb autobio. I type during our arm, in our recall, in our in our groups that, you know, he really reminded me of a younger al Horford, and, you know, he may surpass what al Horford did, but I mean, as someone that can that can pass like him, like a rebound a score, like, that's what happened to cast is just much better, you know, so that's, that's what happened like that. Bam,

Dave Clarke : 6:44

bam, bam, camp, bam, came out of nowhere. What's not a Jimmy Butler lead team that beat us, you know what I mean? Like the best player in the series was Bam Adebayo . You know.

Joe Malkin : 6:52

So Dave, to interrupt you real quick and go off of what Rayshawn said, because rayshawn played into into my point perfectly, is that I agree with you, Dave. Like I, I want to put that out there first. But I don't think Jimmy Butler was given enough creative license with Chicago. Maybe that's because he was younger. But we've said it multiple times. And after watching this heat team for six games, because all of us sat here and watch these watched every minute of these games in this series, I really can't give one enough credit to Pat Riley for rebuilding the heat. After the heat big three left, but also to Erik Spoelstra for how good of a coach, he really is. I thought that he was a puppet when LeBron was there, but I think, no sure he wouldn't. Maybe he was but Pat Riley has groomed him. Right. But Pat Riley has groomed him into a very good coach. And here's where I, you played into my point, Ray. And why I asked a question. I think Jimmy Butler was the best player on that court, because of who he is as a leader. Rather than who he is, as a talented basketball player. I think he was a floor manager in that series, and I think he is for for the Miami Heat. I mean, I think that he was super fired up. And I think they're more fired up than we were, was that Jimmy Butler made it I don't I just don't feel like we got beaten by not seeing

Dave Clarke : 8:20

right, not singularly that's what I mean. I just think that he's the glue that kept it all together. Maybe. I mean, I think that he he didn't fit into a lot of places and a lot of people were starting to write them off because he was basically like, calling people out everywhere he went, but you find a good spot for him where people can take that and the right attitude and the right culture and like, it seemed like everybody was clicking on the same page on that heat team. Like the fact that we got out work is like it's like I said before is like the worst part of it like Jimmy buckets works, you know, like he is a superstar but he gets back on defense. Like, they played that grade zone that just obviously knocked the stuffing out of us, like totally killed our stamina and our momentum going into that game six and it's like he's he is a big part of that, you know, but at the same time, bam. autobio to me was the best player on the floor. And he was the best player in that he's the best player in the series. And he emerged in that series and that's bad luck, you know, because we knew going into the season we were going to have matchup problems that big at the big spots. And you could just see Tice just getting absolutely mauled, you know, and it's it's unfortunate but it's true. Like we know we knew coming to this place, we're missing a piece still I got big man. So I'm not ready to write this team off for that reason, but it does worry me that we got outworked,

Rayshawn Buchanan : 9:30

right. But that that's the issue I had to cuz you know Tice obviously, it's a foul trouble, every game that you could think of it is

Dave Clarke : 9:38

so undersized, right? Because he's in there. Right? Is that?

Rayshawn Buchanan : 9:42

Right, exactly. So that's part of it. But then, you know, this is where I have to, you know, get on it with in this regard. So, Grant Williams later on in this series became a lot better guarding the picker roll. When when bam, they put them in that situation. So you know, Brad rent is six,

Dave Clarke : 10:01

six. We figured that out to you later.

Rayshawn Buchanan : 10:03

Right? But I'm saying but even when they did figure it out, it was like, okay, you have to stick with it. And there's times they don't play it. Yeah, exactly. There's too many young. There's too many times when either grant one is or Robert Williams was out there for a short stint. And he didn't let them play through their mistakes and that that's a problem right? So if you're counting on these guys to be in opponent because like I said, when when hero got hot spoke was like, Oh, he's hot, we're given its own, you know. And obviously, Grant Williams or Rob Williams wasn't going to go get you 25 or 30. So whether honor for four, but if they could get you a few stops, they can get you a rebound here and there, they can get you a hustle play. And they've done their job because that's their role on this team, in fact that they wasn't allowed to do that on a consistent basis, not only in this series, but really throughout the playoffs really is a diamond. So what Brad Stevens did as a coach this this just play off. So

Dave Clarke : 10:56

where do you think I think comes from of that forcing, like it seems like it's either smart, Tatum or brown. And sometimes Kemba Walker, even though he like fell off a little bit in the playoffs that just get a green light to force their way back into the game. And they get to just put up shots to get to get themselves back in the game and get high. They all have the green light on that. And it's like very frustrating, because I think it's it's the other side of the coin to what you were just saying, right? Because it's like, yeah, we need to let our role players get hot and like do work for us, especially when you want to go deep in the playoffs. Like you have to have those guys step up. And we get this demand. He did this to us before with a totally different squad. They let the role players beat us, you know, I mean, because we were throwing bodies at their superstars. But where does that come from? Is that Brad's fault? Or are these players just like, no, this is our team. We got to like, get back in you know, like, it doesn't seem like it's an instruction to me. It?

Joe Malkin : 11:42

Well, I'm gonna disagree with you. I think it is because I think they're too stiff. I you you watch that. And I mentioned it while we were watching these games multiple times where there's four guys out on the perimeter. There's one guy down low, and it's usually not even the biggest guy on the court, which is not how that should be for us

Dave Clarke : 11:59

for the C's for all y'all. Yeah, we have we have to play an attack because we're so much smaller, but and everybody underneath the basket.

Joe Malkin : 12:05

And I understand that, but everybody looks stiff. Everybody looked like they were being told when how and where to be on the floor at all times. And everyone, as you mentioned was given the green light to shoot a three or shoot a deep ball or whatever it was. And you mentioned role players. But that's that's not that's not role playing. Right. That's everybody doing the same thing expecting a different outcome. And to go along with this point. Marcus smart took 22 shots in series. That's absurd. And lower. Campbell took 14

Dave Clarke : 12:42

Yeah, that's not that's that's completely ridiculous. That's what I'm talking about, though, is that hero ball stuff that they all start doing. It's like there's too many guys. We have like too many guys. Absolutely. You know what I mean? It's like I it's either going to be Tatum, or it's going to be nobody at this point. So everybody needs to just like get on the same page with that it's almost the same thing that happened with Kyrie I mean, I know there's a ton to blame for Kyrie but the share sharing of responsibilities but a constant theme in this in this team like what do you

Rayshawn Buchanan : 13:07

Yeah, there was only one time I feel like we had a legit pecking order. And that was the it era right? Because you knew the ball was coming at it. Maybe occasionally Avery Bradley, maybe Jay Crowder because he had a few game winners while he was here. Al Horford had a couple of game winners But you knew when it was getting the ball you know King King so forth like that that was his nickname was he was clutch yeah cuz he was clutch right but you know once we got carried you know, the team was much deeper and it was like oh, like you know we can just you know because Bricker spread it out but you know, Kyrie should have been that closer um, but there was so many times where it was just like oh, like you know, oh, we'll have to get past here. Now with theory ball movement is where Bradley was supposed to do right that's that's something you hear him preach. But at this moment now with him being several years in I really think it's a matter of all the players as they're going to buy into what he's saying. Because if when they do buy in the low damn near unbeatable you know, so when they buy when the shot doesn't fall it's like oh now let's go back to ISO let's you know let's drive and then we kick out to you know to a corner three which is fine

Dave Clarke : 14:18

which would you be fine as Tatum is that is is at his alleged ceiling. Because if Tatum takes a game over like we know he can that he did less and less as that as the series went on, because he was against more like better and better players and they were figuring them out a little bit more. But if he can get that together, it doesn't matter as much right? Because it's like just get the ball to Tatum. It's like you said pecking order man like the Celtics. I know we always harp on about the Celtics but the only Celtics figuring out their pecking order among like those four, three superstars. Fourth, like sprouting superstar is a big part of why they're successful, because they all trust each other. And they all like deep down, we're like, it Ray gets the shot in this situation, Paul gets the shot in this situation, we do not have that it looked at their like who who the ball goes to was just not decided on and not talked about. And now not all movements, sure, but like, there are going to be ISO situations that they have to just get figured out, you know,

Rayshawn Buchanan : 15:08

right. And I'll add to that, right, because I think that obviously, you know, we you know, 2020 is a year that we've never seen before far is just having as long of a break in the season. But I think we started to see that happen in February right. So when Tatum funneled he was he was becoming an all star He went absolutely nuts in late January, early February. Now something tells me that if they was able to still keep playing, I felt like that pecking order would have been solved. And just said, Look, he's the guy this is it. He's he's getting 3534 40 point games against the best teams like so. Yeah. 41 against the Lakers. He had 39 against the Clippers in early February, like, he was starting to say, look, if you give me the ball, I could I could take you there. But I don't know. Maybe it's just like, you know, it was a doubt that crept in it was it? You know, why didn't do what it is. But it was it was it just it reverted back to old habits, as opposed to what happened at February where he started to say, Okay, I am the best player. Everyone get out of my way

Dave Clarke : 16:07

of making tea was a factor. You know, I think I think that those are our factors. I'm not saying they're not but I think fatigue is a factor too. Like Tatum was the, like, number one, four minutes played on average in the playoffs in the bubble. So I either across the whole bubble or just the playoffs. He was like number one for minutes played. So that to me means we're throwing a 20. You know, we have to always remind ourselves like, I know, it's a running joke, but like, he is not a veteran yet, to the point where we can like really, really, like you know, LeBron didn't win anything for his first six years. I'm not saying he's LeBron, but like, bear with me. He's still a kid. And you know, there's a lot of responsibility on his shoulders in Boston, and almost too much maybe because I even caught myself being furious at him. for you guys. Remember, I was yelling about it on our zoom chat about for only scoring three points in a half because I was so angry because I'm like, cuz I'm thinking back to that time like that, like the all star break. Or lean up the all star break where he was going. He just went every single game, he looked even better than the last game. And yeah, all this stuff happened. Sure. Like we had to shut down. But to me, that made him the guy in my head, like I had decided, and if because it seemed like he had decided, so he didn't step up and prove that and I, you know, that made me really mad. But we have to remember that he's just he's still a kid. So we can't break don't break our shiny toy here. You know what I mean? Like this is ceiling still super high. So it's tough. I know. It's a tough loss. But we still do have a young team. I know. I don't want to keep saying that forever. But you know what I mean?

Joe Malkin : 17:30

Well, let's change. Let's change gears slightly here. And you guys talk about the the age of the team. And I think part of the problem just from my standpoint, I think part of the problem is that all these guys are so close in age with maybe the exception of Gordon Hayward. There's a couple of older guys, but everybody's fairly young. I mean, smarts only been in the league for six years. Part of the problem is that they aren't playing the roles right, Dave? That's what you said. And they're not playing the roles in the role of Marcus smart. Sure. We saw him come down to court and hit five threes at the end of the game, and that's, that's fine. But that's not that's not him. He was just hot that day. And that's just the way it goes right. Not every pitcher in Major League Baseball is gonna throw a no hitter and sometimes you find one. Even a blind squirrel finds a nut right? Not every Trent Dilfer in the NFL is gonna win a Super Bowl, but sometimes it happens. So we see these issues with the team. And I think we've kind of talked about a lot of their flaws and rayshawn brought up Brad Stevens being in his seventh year and he just signed a five year extension that's going to put him here for, you know, a 12 year stint overall if he doesn't leave and re you mentioned some of those teams during the first half of his seven years here that did have the role players. So two questions. Do they have a fundamental flaw? And is Brad Stevens the answer?

Dave Clarke : 18:56

Yeah, they have a fundamental flaw, which is that they don't have a dynamic big man that can keep up with all the dynamic big men that are spread across the league right now. So there's no way we win unless we have somebody that's a lot better than than Daniel Tice at the five, in my opinion. So is it a Is it a fixable flaw? Absolutely. Like we have these three picks in the first round we have sorry to say Gordon Hayward. Like maybe somebody takes that contract off her hands we can get someone you know, I heard some bonus was discussed some scuttlebutt. Gordon Hayward, and I, you know, I know this has been I hate to bring up this hot button issue. But Gordon has been a lightning rod of conversation in our group. He did not show up in game six, right. Like he did not show up at all in game six. And you have to ask yourself, like, if his performance is safe, status inconsistent. You got to move him on. He's gone after a year anyway. Right?

Rayshawn Buchanan : 19:48

No, I'm glad you brought that up. Because I see I wrote down something I saw earlier. So I'm not sure if you guys are familiar with Jarrod Weiss but he's a part of the the athletic. So he talked about Indiana wanting to move on from all the depot so I actually saw a trade that that does fan roll but I thought it was pretty cool. So it was going to be Hayward, Tice Langford and the 14th picked Indiana for all the different Myles Turner. Not to be honest. Yeah, exactly. I do that. Hey, we need to be moved to a logon buddy. I'll drive I'll get back

Dave Clarke : 20:23

to the airport. Right now,

Rayshawn Buchanan : 20:25

exactly, you know, overwhelmed with, like, a letter. So, you know, it likes it and I've been I've been the biggest supporter in the group but it's just like that that's how I do see that you know, so

Joe Malkin : 20:39

that helps for him because he is from Indianapolis right and eight or

Rayshawn Buchanan : 20:43

just had a baby like, you know, hey, you know BB smaller market later.

Joe Malkin : 20:46

Sure. smaller market he he'll have time to come back from his injury somewhere else maybe somebody will take on his contract. And it's funny, you mentioned that ratio, because I wrote down the same exact thing, because I saw the same exact trade proposal and I went I got I got to put this in here and I I should have known you and seen it, but I was trying to be that guy. Right.

Dave Clarke : 21:05

But Joe, to your question to your question is Brad Stevens the answer. Was that your question? Well, that was it. Let me say this though, Gordon Hayward gets gets shipped out. A big part of Brad Stevens, like negative downside goes with him. Because there is a huge thing that Brad doesn't see when when Gordon Hayward is not playing well. And he always gives him more more rope and more minutes, then another player in his position in his context might deserve and it's just a fact, you know, which is fine. I mean, they're together in college. Like I get it. A lot of chatting, right.

Joe Malkin : 21:38

Yeah, exactly. A lot of coaches have that bias towards guys that they've either coached at the college level, or they've they've had success with in the past. And you're just not everybody is going to have success everywhere. We've seen you guys should have beers

Dave Clarke : 21:52

when you're not on company time. You know what I mean? I see your relationship blossom on the court. I mean, so it's like, just figure that out somewhere else.

Unknown Speaker : 22:03

Just it's just like, Oh, stop it.

Rayshawn Buchanan : 22:05

So we all agree, you trade Hayward for all the Victor Oladipo and I know there's more to the hammer. No, not that. Not just him though. Cuz No,

Joe Malkin : 22:12

no, no. That's what I just said. No, no, I understand. But what I'm saying is you trade Hayward and those other pieces including the 14th, overall pick in the draft for Turner and old depot. Sunday night after game six loss, you would just get here, Hayward so we can drive into the airport to send you to Indianapolis.

Rayshawn Buchanan : 22:33

Yeah. And I should I'll add, I had two other I do the first round trips to LA so we're gonna do like, take take it all. I don't care. We don't need we don't need ethics at this moment. So take take take the 1426 and 30th. Pick Romeo, Lightfoot, Tice and Hayward. And hey, see, see you later. You know, but you know, at the end of the day, it's like they do need a more veteran presence who so yes, Myles Turner, all the people will fit the timeline from a user standpoint, because Oh, Victor Oladipo was only 28. And then I was turning to turn 24 earlier this year. So you know, you're the first one I picked

Joe Malkin : 23:07

top 28 is still it's still veteran presence. We're on the on this team.

Rayshawn Buchanan : 23:13

But it's like, you know, but it's amazing how we think that now it's 28 that as a veteran guy was like, to me, they're still young, but they need to get some guys like, could you imagine if we got $1 at the trade? Oh,

Dave Clarke : 23:24

yeah, he knows right? If you find the

Rayshawn Buchanan : 23:28

right rap, and you know,

Dave Clarke : 23:29

totally, but listen, oh, no problem we had and you kept saying it right. It was true. It's like they weren't you know, it's like, you're just taking perimeter shots. You're just taking premier shots and you drive the basketball and it drives basketball works. The reason they they weren't able to do it all game, it's like that's tiring. You know what I mean? Especially when you have such a small presence down low. If you drive and you have a big man there. I mean, I know we don't play basketball like this anymore. I know it's something 90 you can't if you drive and you have a presence in there, the heat did it to us all series with bam, they just if you split the lane, and you get that short lane run up, you can just toss it up to him. He'll finish at the rim. We just do not have that at all.

Rayshawn Buchanan : 24:04

If they cancer kinda lose. It didn't use enough. Rob Williams could be that guy. So

Dave Clarke : 24:09

yes, I know you love I know you love

Rayshawn Buchanan : 24:13

him though. He could be a guy though.

Dave Clarke : 24:15

Yes. But he also still has to be on the court to do all the other stuff,

Rayshawn Buchanan : 24:19

though. That's not bad.

Joe Malkin : 24:22

All right. So hang on a sec. We, we've talked about. We've talked about the players. We've gone over that first trade rumor with Victor Oladipo and Turner. But let's answer the question right now. Seven years. He's been here, Brad Stevens, he just signed a five year extension. The answer, let me give you the answer. He's got to get to a finals. Right. He's been here seven years, he's had the opportunity. So to me is to get to the finals. And if he's here for five more years, he's got to win an NBA championship. Can it changing the question of Is he the answer to Can he do it?

Dave Clarke : 25:01

He can do it. He hasn't been given his win with this team team yet. He hasn't been given his team where they say like, okay, all the pieces are in place, you know, anything else to move. This is who you have going with them. That team doesn't exist yet. We're still a year or two away from I know it feels fresh because we just got bounced out, but it's a very long term project. Longer term than I think we've seen in the NBA in recent seasons, we can go one or two with the exception of 7076 years, we can go one of two ways we can go 76 years away where we were firing coaches, and we're moving stuff around and like this, this and the other or we let the man build to the end, and we put all our eggs in that basket because we're already into deep anyway, with Brad Stevens there's there's no upside to getting rid of him and having another coach come in here, you know, so, I hope so. I hope he's the answer, but like, He better be at this point. All right, right. You told us you have the answer. Let's hear it.

Rayshawn Buchanan : 25:55

Yeah, no, I think that he is the answer, man. You know, let's say you know, he pissed me off at times, but he definitely is the I think every coach

Joe Malkin : 26:01

I mean, Bella check this often times, and he's been here for 21 years and one of six Super Bowls. But you can't say that people don't doubt Bill Belichick so if they're doubting him, you have every right and every Of course

Dave Clarke : 26:14

I've never I've never been mad at Juergen Klopp once in my entire life just for the boy

Joe Malkin : 26:17

You know what? I don't think many people can have you seen the man he's he's a great he's a great guy. A wonderful coach. But while we know you've been mad at Marc trestman and Matt Nagy and all those guys so it stressed

Rayshawn Buchanan : 26:29

out so No, no, that was a throwback name right there. Right

Joe Malkin : 26:33

so we all we all agree Brad Stevens is currently the answer I agree with you Dave that you can't you can't move on to someone else and i'm i mean you know we have other teams now Doc Rivers, parts ways mutually we all know what that means. With the clippers. Steve Ballmer says that it was I kind of believe that guy of all the guys in the NBA he's kind of one of the good guys when he says you know all we do we agree to part ways you could have Doc Rivers back in the east and could you imagine though all these teams that are like yeah get get docked to New Orleans bring bring doc to you know, where else did they haven't gone Philadelphia? Can you imagine if people were like I brought out doc in Could you imagine that conversation? That's not a question. I don't want to go down that road. It's just something that popped into my head so I'm not gonna go there. But here's another trade that was brought up we brought up the the old depot and Turner for Hayward and and everything else. Wait, wait, can we go back one second that I just want to say one thing Doc Rivers getting fired? fully deserved to get fired?

Unknown Speaker : 27:37

Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. Which I just

Dave Clarke : 27:39

I know we don't talk about because it's like that's your your out like even more so. Now. Okay, go on. All right, what

Joe Malkin : 27:47

one more point on the Celtics and then I have one overall NBA question. So the last point on the Celtics is another trade was rumored this afternoon as I'm driving home I started seeing everything blow up

Dave Clarke : 28:00

folks on the road man

Joe Malkin : 28:02

I was but when you're listening to the radio and you know you just I nope not gonna go into it cuz I'm gonna get myself in trouble. So there was a rumor out there and this might be a stretch but Marcus smart and whatever package it takes, because it clearly can't be a straight up package. But to Golden State for the number two overall pick. I think it's outlandish but it's a rumor and it deserves to be talked about because we talked about it in our slack and I think we all agree we need a veteran presence as Ray has said multiple times already in the last half hour. We need a big man there's I can't

Dave Clarke : 28:46

watch this. I can't watch this builds anymore like that. I like I don't want the second overall pick in the draft Honestly, I don't know how Ray feels but come on. I mean, we just how many rookies have yet to wait on

Joe Malkin : 28:57

well that's what I'm saying what but but you don't need to you don't need to use it right. So you can trade that away? Who are draft picks to trade. There's always like gonna be a package of draft picks to trade like let's go get points but we don't but we don't have anything to trade now. And if we if we trade so let me ask Raiden right if we if we trade Hayward the 14th Tice and who is the other player Romeo Langford to Indiana for Ola debo and Turner is that enough to keep Marcus smart here not even worried about this trade? And just go ahead with with the 2021 season or the 2020 and 2021 season Oh

Rayshawn Buchanan : 29:36

yeah, I think so. I mean, I still tend to be more work to be done obviously but I think that will be a start you know you have to me I also they need to get rid of me to like please I just I've held off long enough but I've never seen anyone getting more clout off one serious party honestly, for a few for a few games back in 2017 by god god i'm not i'm not gonna go there. But

Joe Malkin : 30:03

to go to why isn't that how it goes?

Rayshawn Buchanan : 30:06

I don't want I don't want the number to pick either like like Dave said, But um, I did write about this. So you can read that article on WordPress and plug that but i if they are going to go to their browser, they use a draft pick. So I would try. I think Detroit has a number seven pick. So I would trade I would trade with Detroit. Not going to get all the depot Turner. I would trade up with Detroit and talk to them about Hey, for the seventh pick we'll give you the 1426 and 30 years since you're looking at to rebuild and you know they have to sign Krishna wood they have to build around Blake Griffin so there's a lot of pieces they need to fill them

Dave Clarke : 30:38

they do it that seventh Picton

Rayshawn Buchanan : 30:40

to get to get that guy out of iowa state that I've been telling you all about. The same as Tyrese Haliburton like six five guard 180 South 50% from the field 41 from three what do we get and what are we

Dave Clarke : 30:51

going to get a guard for? What are we going to what are we going to get a guard because

Rayshawn Buchanan : 30:55

I don't think they have a guard off the bench that could do what he does and his dad damn shirring Brad Wanamaker he had nothing

Unknown Speaker : 31:00

is there I don't want more guards but I want to be

Joe Malkin : 31:03

alright so what

Rayshawn Buchanan : 31:04

are you getting you could get that but I'm saying like I just I think to me he would be the best player available at that spot because why isn't this gone? Unless Unless you get the number two pick when you get someone like James Why

Dave Clarke : 31:15

are you just checking it your belly checking it yourself? Take the best player

Unknown Speaker : 31:19

the best player he's the best player at

Joe Malkin : 31:20

that spot Am I pick the kid from Memphis right is that right because that was gonna be my

Rayshawn Buchanan : 31:25

why isn't the Wiseman will be the number two pick in my opinion behind Anthony Edwards yeah

Joe Malkin : 31:28

so you go get Wiseman so you train away smite you go get Wiseman you may not get the old debo Turner return for Hayward. So you keep a word at least until halfway through the season. Maybe trade him see if somebody will take on the contract for a rental and then try and sign them back. But now you now you have the kid from Memphis, you have Hayward and you have no smart. Is that a team? That's good enough to contend?

Rayshawn Buchanan : 31:52

Absolutely not. No,

Joe Malkin : 31:53

I agree. That's why I'm asking the question.

Rayshawn Buchanan : 31:56

Yeah, no, yeah, I don't I don't think I want to say absolutely not just leave it at that. I don't think that that's something like I did Danny. He has an irrational love for certain players like rozier was one of them. I'm surprised to hear that was their go so I'm surprised but I mean kemba was an upgrade obviously. But um, Barca smart is next in line with that. Like he loves Marcus smart Marcus might think reminds him of himself from when he played. So I think that's why I don't see Marcus not going anywhere. Unless it was something that just completely blew me away. Um, but the issue is because Danny Ainge has fleeced so many gems over the years to me, he backs out of certain deals that might make us better Yeah, because it's like well of I don't think I can get the best out of if I can't Brooklyn Nets. I'm not going to make the deal and that's the problem and I think that's one started things in certain years because like you know what if I'm not getting the best deal so to speak I'm getting a million Jeff pitch

Unknown Speaker : 32:54

I still love what he does it

Joe Malkin : 32:55

Yeah. That's why they call him

Rayshawn Buchanan : 32:58

times where he's been he's been kind of you know, he stood patent it's like no like we have a team that could win now if you knew behind the scenes that someone was injured or playing with a you know not playing but not playing the way she wanted to play and you say you know what, when are ready then I get that but you know as fans we don't know that we're just saying like look, this team is in the top three at ease you need to compete you know so but who knows but likely Yeah, I don't think getting the number two pick. No Lego smart changes anything I just think that if you like but if you make that deal for all the people in Turner, and then maybe go get like a you know, I don't know someone like have a Shawn Holmes from Sacramento, even like a Willie cauley Stein out of Dallas like someone like that could be like a Tyson Chandler, Clint capela type guy. That would work perfectly in Brad Stevens. offense. defensive.

Joe Malkin : 33:49

All right. Oh, by the time everyone listens to this, the NBA Finals will be one game deep. It's the Los Angeles Lakers against the Miami Heat. The NBA couldn't have scripted it better. Who wins the series? Lakers. Bye. Bye so much. Lakers. How many? Five Lakers and five? Right.

Rayshawn Buchanan : 34:12

I'll say leg is a six. I think that Dam's emerges just wasn't with the Celtics series. I think we're gonna see him emerging and further. And because he plays so hard, he's gonna make ad work hard. And of course, he is gonna win that matchup in those consecutive weeks and talk to you there. But ad is phenomenal. babett BAM is really starting to catch people's eyes. So the broadcast

Dave Clarke : 34:36

Tiger right now though, he's doing that LeBron. No,

Rayshawn Buchanan : 34:38

he does. He definitely does. But blood in the water. Right, but between what Ben has done and then the way that Miami can shoot that will keep them in a couple of games. So I think that will end up winning them again. I think we'll see more

Dave Clarke : 34:53

of closer so well to like we call

Rayshawn Buchanan : 34:55

it out. They have

Dave Clarke : 34:56

absolutely absolutely. We kept getting on them and we couldn't get it done, you know, and it's like the Lakers ability to close I think will because like this, the whole narrative surrounding that last series that they're in, right, right because like they get the nugget to come back and it was like God and it was just like, we're not the Clippers, booboo, right? No, no thanks. I'm

Rayshawn Buchanan : 35:13

yeah, so Dave who say farmers I say I say lake is one of the six though.

Joe Malkin : 35:17

Yeah. All right. So Lakers and five for Dave Lakers and six for for Ray. I can't disagree. I really want too, I really would love to tell you that the heat are gonna win the series just to see when so we could have a narrative and something to talk about in two weeks. And, you know, without getting into it we've already talked about lebrons legacy. So, when you're listening to this, go back and download the seven minute episode that myself Mike Mark Angelo and Bob Kelly had the bonus episode from last week on lebrons legacy, I'm going to have to agree with with Ray Shawn here and say Lakers and six. I think it's going to be a fun series to watch. I think both of these teams are good. Miami is fast. They're young, they're very smart. They don't make a lot of mistakes and the Lakers have LeBron and KD so that's the way that's gonna go. Alright guys, and now it's time for this week's Forrest Gump award.

Dave Clarke : 36:11

Before his gumbo award beloved American hero Forrest Gump is the namesake for our weekly award show given to one lucky or unlucky member of the sports community. Forrest Gump, a seemingly dumb guy doing smart things surrounded by seemingly smart people doing dumb things. So who is this week's dumbest, smart guy or smartest dumb guy in the Wide World of Sports? Your host will decide based on the contributors nominees, and away we go.

Joe Malkin : 36:48

What's your purpose in this army to do whatever you

Unknown Speaker : 36:52

tell my drill sergeants, get it done. You're outstanding. You must have a goddamn IQ of 60. You kept them kept in

Rayshawn Buchanan : 37:09

the office. So I have to go with the Illumina stuff is honor Arthur blank, walk out and say I guess he was shooting blanks. I'm just kidding. No, but you know, so, um, it's a May is dumped is amazing to me or dumb to me that, um, he's still employing the endpoint. Dan Quinn, you know, how many how many blown leaves need no to see before you say, Hey, you know what, you know, before we get off this plane, why unless you notice that you're relieved of your duties, or we're going to eventually part ways. You know, so, you know, obviously, he's smart getting on, you know, you're a businessman, you know, you know how to make money. That's great. But, you know, his decision to keep dancing around, you know, after what happened is suitable for the one what happened against the Cowboys, and that was happening against them. I guess Chicago A few years ago, like, it's comical, like he he's he's definitely, he's definitely my nominee and really should be the winner of the forrest gump award this week.

Joe Malkin : 38:11

With a lobby for yourself, Dave.

Dave Clarke : 38:14

That was Yeah, that's gonna be a tough act to follow. Mainly because you had such heavy material with the idiocy that's going on over there at the Falcons. When I woke up this morning, I had a surefire Forrest Gump Award nominee, and it was gonna be Matt Ryan, because he just looks he's the face of that franchise, and he just looks so stupid every time they do that, and it's kind of his fault every time. But I've pivoted since and I'm actually gonna nominate the future record holding Forrest Gump award winner because he's gonna win a lot. I'm going to nominate Jon Gruden. So Jon Gruden is a really dumb guy but he did a really smart thing this week. He did a really really smart thing this week he decided to blow the game against the Patriots because he had them in his sights he's two games up you know running in sees the past the past come out there and look sloppy you know cam can't get it going first time you really may seen it make some boneheaded I don't really understand the offense mistakes, which is like still cool, whatever. And Gruden manages to not manage the clock effectively at all. kick kick field goals when he shouldn't have do all the dumb john Rooney things that you could possibly do to blog in football and then manages to blow the game of football gets out coached by Bill Belichick No surprise there. And that's a smart thing that Jon Gruden did, because he was up to games and people were starting to talk about him. And it that little voice in his head that said, You're Jon Gruden, okay, you're not very smart. You got to get in there you got find a big a big bunch of money. And I love voice was like you know what, you're in too deep. You got to get some of that attention off you. You got to cruise this team to a nice 10 nice 10 and six atmost and then go away early in the playoffs because nobody should be asking you any questions. That's a smart man. That day john green, you're my Forrest Gump nominee.

Joe Malkin : 40:04

I'm trying to I don't know if you're a politician or you are Jon Gruden in disguise trying to throw the forrest gump award. So here's my take, here's my take on both of those things.

Dave Clarke : 40:18

is at least at least going to be a record holder and nominations

Joe Malkin : 40:23

Absolutely. here's here's my thought on. I'm Arthur blank. Lowe's is better than Home Depot. Arthur blank owns Home Depot. Ray when we started the season and we did our AFC NFC predictions, I didn't have Dan Quinn, I had the AFC right. I was on the other side. So I have Zach Taylor, as my first coach gone. There are two coaches in the NFL that should go long before Zach Taylor and I'm starting to come around to what Bobby said about your Joe Burrell being in Cincinnati like that Cincinnati team is bad, but they don't look awful, if that makes sense. Right? So they just extend it, Joe makes it everything else, whatever. We're not really talking about them. We're talking about the Atlanta Falcons. I also don't want to put in the Super Bowl against New England where they blew a 25 point lead into this while while it's the same coach, the same owner the same quarterback. It's not the exact same team. What you have to look at it's somebody's fault, though.

Unknown Speaker : 41:25

No, no. nobody's fault.

Joe Malkin : 41:28

But But, but let's talk about let's talk to the Atlanta Falcons 25 point lead in the Super Bowl. That's not true at all. What I see is that Dan Quinn can't close. Right always be closing and he can't. So Dan Quinn should be gone for his overall track record. But you're absolutely right ratio. I'm like if we just want to talk about 2020 he should have come in with a short leash to begin with.

Dave Clarke : 41:57

And he blew multiple 15 point leads in one season that has never happened in the history of the NFL 100 years that has never been the only person with a with a longer track record in that organization of blowing championship games and blowing leads is Matt Ryan. And he's got even back in college against Virginia Tech. He choked.

Joe Malkin : 42:18

So you're saying that Ryan should be cut? I'm not saying I'm not saying it should be cut. I'm just saying like if you bring a different coach in Alright, is there a zero percent chance that ever happens again? Not with Maddie ice is your quarterback I love the guy. You know, we'll see product but he's just kind of proven that he doesn't have that Killer Instinct when it comes to like putting a game away. Like I just that's just never happened to Tom Brady. You know, I mean, I know that's a tough comparison but like or Aaron Rodgers or Joker so so my other point on that is to get back to that you're absolutely right about those guys. But my other point was about the coaches that I think should go before Zack Taylor. It's Dan Quinn and Adam gaisce and Dan Quinn should actually absolutely be gone and rate we do have to talk about that right because you mentioned how Matt Ryan has done this under multiple coaches similar outcomes. Similar performances right not a bad quarterback just can't finish. You look at Aaron Rodgers who's now had multiple coaches in Green Bay and it's still the same player right but he's just he's just got that Killer Instinct literally echoing every everything Dave just said

Dave Clarke : 43:22

but guess I mean cases the same thing right? Because like his quarterback is underperforming,

Joe Malkin : 43:26

but his his quarterback is underperforming because he ruins quarterbacks and he has a history of doing that. So now I'm gonna switch gears over to Dave and and look at Jon Gruden. I can understand why you don't like Chucky. It's a scary movie. I don't like horror movies either. But that's no reason not to like a guy because he ruined a Super Bowl for you in 2003 when he been

Dave Clarke : 43:51

First of all, he didn't ruin a Super Bowl for me. I didn't have a horse in the race. He ruined a Super Bowl for America. So you know he had

Joe Malkin : 43:59

a bowl for America make a case?

Dave Clarke : 44:02

Was that not the most boring Super Bowl you've ever watched? I've watched so many points. Do you remember the Super Bowl between the Pittsburgh Steelers and the Arizona Cardinals?

Unknown Speaker : 44:09

That's a chess match to chess. No, no, no

Joe Malkin : 44:14

you're not you're you're gonna get a shot fired up. Oh, wait,

Unknown Speaker : 44:17

there was two job catches at the

Rayshawn Buchanan : 44:18

end of that. Right But I'll say this. If you that to me, even though they smacked open like which was beautiful. Even if I was talking shit about what happened. He fought with us otaku. Now I'll go the year before we won. When the Giants got demolished by the Ravens to me that was that was probably the most boring you lost 35 to seven.

Dave Clarke : 44:41

Yeah, but I love that ravens defense. I mean, oh

Rayshawn Buchanan : 44:45

my god, you know,

Dave Clarke : 44:47

entertaining to watch the show kill people.

Joe Malkin : 44:49

point is I have to pick a winner. And the winner

Rayshawn Buchanan : 44:54

already dropped. drumroll man. Let's make it happen. Let's go.

Joe Malkin : 44:57

Craig insert drum roll here. The winner of the forrest gump award for this week is Rachel Buchanan.

Unknown Speaker : 45:07

Ah,

Joe Malkin : 45:09

if you didn't see that coming, Jon Gruden took

Unknown Speaker : 45:11

the mask off.

Dave Clarke : 45:14

So let's say I can't believe I lost my first time with my own invented award.

Rayshawn Buchanan : 45:21

I want to say thank you and

Dave Clarke : 45:23

design The next game

Rayshawn Buchanan : 45:25

is baby. Let's get it. That's right. So know what you get out of

Joe Malkin : 45:28

both of our Forrest Gump award nominees we're in the NFL and that's where the second half of this show is going to take us into the NFL week three. Guys, what a week this this was from beginning to end. And, Dave, let's let's start with you, because this Chicago Bears team interests me so much of the teams with a winning record in the NFL right now. Because you have two weeks where Mitch trubisky goes out and wins them to games, essentially, right, big fourth quarter comeback and week one. I'm pretty sure he just did it again in week two. But then in week three, the narrative changes and the pair's yank Mitch trubisky. For Nikhil, Nick foles. And Nick foles, goes out and gets the W. What is going on with your Chicago Bears?

Dave Clarke : 46:22

So I think that Matt naggy is playing 3d chess. This is what's happening. I think that he if you remember, I was back in trubisky because he came out and said he won the camp. You know, he kind of won the cube off in the in the, you know, defunct, the, you know, shitty offseason that we had. So I was like, cool, put Rybicki and maybe we can see something here. I think the mat Nike knows he's he's basically one. He's got one more quarterback before he gets fired. So I think he's gone. I need to justify, I need to take the pressure of Rybicki sitting on the bench and looking at Nick foles as a narrative out. And I need to pull them at the exact right time. And I think he knew that they were going to come back against the Falcons because the fat Falcon stink, and they love blowing leads. And I think that he was like, this is where I'm going to get everybody to get fired up for Nick foles because he's going to come in and win this game. If he lets trubisky within the game. That's a tough decision for the next week. You know what I mean? Because it's like, what do you just want us another game like you got to get him in there and he knows the attributes. He's the guy that's going to get him fired. He can see it and trubisky his eyes that he's the guy is going to get him fired. So Nick foles comes out throws three touchdowns should have been four because I don't know if you saw that decision. But that was trashed. There was no they call it a touchdown and there was no discernible evidence to overturn that into an interception and touch back. Awful. So fine, but finally still, they still blew the lead even though the rest of the rest waved off two different touchdown throws. One of them was definitely cash but they waved off two different touchdown throws should have been for for Nick on the day. And now next to starting QB. So really good job Matt naggy way to play that 3d chess way to take Mitch out as a factor. The Mitch trubisky era is over. It was nice having you it was a cool 45 yard run the ad on Sunday and by Nick foles all the way.

Joe Malkin : 48:11

So we're backing Nick foles in Chicago. Here's an interesting stat in week three, including the Chicago Bears. Every team 28 of the 32 teams in the NFL scored more than 20 points in week three, with the exception of the Jaguars, the giants, the Chargers, and the jets and the Broncos so five teams I missed out on the Giants because I forgot they were an NFL team. five teams don't score more than 20 points. The dolphins take care of the Jaguars. The 40 Niners beat up on the Giants without Jimmy Garoppolo which was amazing to me the Giants we look at all these other teams that we think the Jaguars are bad, the giant both of those teams in East Rutherford, New Jersey are terrible. We had our first tie in the NFL, the Cincinnati Bengals, and the Philadelphia Eagles. And this is one I want to jump on because we all talked to the beginning or at least I talked to the beginning of the season about how bad I thought the Bengals would be. And you guys kind of talked me off the ledge with the Hey, it's Joe burrow show. Give it time, but let's flip the script here. How bad is that Eagles team? Because not only are they bad, they don't have fans in the stands. And walking off the field on Sunday. The sound guy in Philadelphia booed Carson Wentz coming off the field how bad Is that real? That's how bad is this Eagles team

Dave Clarke : 49:43

really bad really really bad? Yeah, that that that that overtime? I watched it I don't know why how I got stuck on watching it like it must have been some wall in between games watch that overtime between a Philadelphia and Cincinnati It was like watching two blind kids trying to fight each other It was like they just couldn't they couldn't get anything done. I was like what is no one gonna score you just gonna trip over yourselves until until like the game's over it is your we're gonna shake hands and go home is pathetic. Like I've seen ties in the NFL when like two teams like buttheads you know the way like I always make the joke like, like if it's a low scoring games like Oh, what is this the Steelers versus the Ravens if it's like five to three. Yeah, like that's like a Steelers ravens score line. At least Unlike the third quarter, but it's like so it's like two guys like cancel each other out beating each other up. We love seeing it. Okay fine It's a tie you know I'm bet more okay with ties than probably most of you guys because there's ties in the main sport I watch and soccer so I'm good with it. But that tie was pathetic. Oh my god they should have they should have been banned from more should

Joe Malkin : 50:44

concede, and more pathetic fulfilling, more pathetic for affiliate in Cincinnati I think. Carson Wentz I you know, I didn't see the whole game of Carson Wentz. It seemed like he had opportunities to throw it all day and he didn't get it done and he's just not that good. You know who is good. The guy who wants to blow for that team Nick foles Oh, Nick foles who's now the quarterback of the Chicago Bears. I agree with Carson Wentz is the Mitch trubisky. In Philadelphia that's going to get Doug Peterson fired. Ray Ray, let me ask you, because we already heard we already heard Dave's take on the Raiders patriots game, where he just thinks that Jon Gruden blewitt patriots win 36 to 20 over the Raiders, I think it was a better game for the Patriots than people might give them credit for so far. they've they've they've beaten the two teams that they should and probably lost to the team that they should lose to what did you think of the Patriots offense in this game? Basically, going back to what Dave said about Cam Newton a couple of interesting decisions. But what was your thoughts on the game plan in the offensive execution?

Rayshawn Buchanan : 51:44

I was very impressed with how their running game looked on Sunday, obviously, you know, when you go for 250 yards. I mean, that's, you know, that's college type numbers. So, it hasn't happened too often in the NFL. So I was happy to see that. You know, it was good to see Sony Michelle, good going to, you know, you know, Bob has been probably the biggest, you know, hater of Sony Michelle in our in our group. But, you know, take that Bob, you know, Sony went off on Sunday. So, you know, that was a good time to say, you know, obviously he's underperformed at times, but hopefully, it's something that is assigned to come. You know, I'm JJ Taylor to me. Looks like Dion Lewis 2.0. And I hope they find more ways to incorporate him in the offense Could I think that eventually, he can be that guy that's, you know, that change of pace back that's, you know, that's really needed in the NFL. So, um, but more importantly, it was good to see that cam didn't have to have a game throwing for 350 like three total touchdowns for them to win. So to go 17 to 28 from 160 to you know, he had a turnover. So they haven't really really predicted performance like he did a week one on even a week was 155 look better than the 162 but you know to be pedestrian as he was on Sunday, and they still win by 15. Really, to me is a good sign. Hopefully you just get better defensively though.

Joe Malkin : 53:06

So I have to make some points on the I still think Sony Michel is on his way out. I don't think Sony Michel is very good. You know, we made the Dave sorry, not Dave. Bob made the comment that Nick Chubb went after Sony Michel in that draft. I think that's a good point. I don't I don't think Sony Michelle is the the answer at running back into England. I don't think JJ Taylor's the answer at running back for New England. And I don't think the Rex burkhead is either but so here's what i think i think that they recognized that James White would have been a big help against Seattle. And they used Dion Lewis 2.0, which I really liked JJ Taylor, so don't don't take my last comment as as a total negative. I think he's a hard runner. I think he is able to get to the outside and hit the corner. Unlike many running backs in New England haven't been able to do in the last two decades. I think he allows them to be more dynamic and they do need to get him more involved in the offense. But I think he was fulfilling for James White while he's out. And I think the way they incorporated Rex burkhead this weekend. And to your point Ray brought all four of the the backs I'm counting Cam Newton as one of those backs. The way they brought all four of them into the game plan and allowed them to run wild. I just don't think the Raiders were ready for Rex burkhead I don't think it was a matter of Jon Gruden blowing the game. I just don't think he recognized that they had Rex burkhead in the backfield and that he was going to have as big of a day as he had I don't think he's ever going to have a game that good in his career ever again. But I think when they get James White back, you're going to see this offense click even more and for them to click as well as they did this weekend and still have those mistakes because Dave mentioned it in his point earlier about how he made mistakes. He did make mistakes he came there was a lot of throws or adjustments in the run game that he made that maybe he should have done something differently and that was concerning to me. I think James White is coming back hopefully next week is going to help that for Cam Newton. And that offense. I just don't see room in the offense for four running backs when they had to try and incorporate three this week and granted I think it made a busier for the Raiders than it did for the Patriots but to have to incorporate another guy in I think, I think Sony Michel is going to be the odd man out.

Dave Clarke : 55:50

I mean, it's a fun offense. You know, it's a fun offense to watch but it does make you kind of wish now I'm not a Patriots fan, but it does make you kind of wish there was more weapons in there like real weapons that he could like really exploit and use like between cam and and Josh McDaniels, but like, yeah, I mean, Sony. Michelle is not the answer. We're gonna kill Harry's numbers like this this week. Yeah, he passed, he didn't score at all. Like he's so inconsistent for you guys too. And it's like, it's for sort of the same issues that you had last year, you just have a lot more dynamism a quarterback now, which like Josh downs can work with, but you can still see the same issues like the weapons aren't really there. So unless unless they can kind of figure out this weird, special offensive, they're running and like, you know, win games that like by driving on the field really fast, like, you know, close out. I don't know, I still don't see them as going all the way. But some of the eliteness that I see I've seen around the rest of the league. Well, especially when you have two teams in your conference alone in Kansas City and Baltimore and Kansas City made Baltimore look like a JV team last night, on Monday Night Football this week.

Joe Malkin : 56:52

And I still think Baltimore is one of the better teams in the league. Yeah, they're really my my my early pick for Super Bowl right now going into week for the NFL season is Kansas City and Seattle. I just I think both of those teams are, are so far ahead of everybody else. But going back to your patriots point. I agree. I think this is this is the negative right to me where Cam Newton can succeed. We've seen it in the NFL, he has succeeded. He's been to the playoff four times in nine years. He's been to a Super Bowl. He's been Rookie of the Year he's been offensive player the year twice. He's been MVP, right? We know the guy can play and we know he's a coachable player because every coach is played for has said that about him. They said that about him in Florida. They said it about him at Auburn. They said Ron Rivera said it about him in Carolina and I think my hand is gonna be your problem. No, no, but that's what I'm getting to is that that Josh McDaniels said it just today about him. But when you look at the pieces that are put around him, I think he needs something closer to topped here at a position right he had Greg Olson for all those years. He doesn't have anything near a Greg Olson in England. He had Steve Smith at the beginning of his career at wide receiver he i mean he's got Julian Edelman, but to me Steve Smith was a better wide receiver in the NFL fan Julian Edelman and he didn't get his due at the end of the day. I mean, that guy probably should have won multiple somewhat even

Dave Clarke : 58:30

but even receivers sure, but like look at what Rodgers is doing in Green Bay like he he doesn't have a ton of weapons throw the ball too but that's what he's got a bit because he's not the best running back in like that he's ever played with probably like that. I can remember Yeah, he he has these this back to a weapon and he's using it. He's like doing a little Tom Brady action like across the like just short little outlets and stuff you can make that work where you can't make work as a guy like him just completely by himself.

Joe Malkin : 58:56

And that's what I was getting to with with that point. And that was kind of my long way around. It was that Cam Newton needs something he needs that he needs that one piece he needs that Greg Olson that Steve Smith that Christian McCaffrey he needs that one piece where Tom Brady a lot of the time made the made guys that piece right we've talked about the 2001 Super Bowl already on the podcast. Go back and check that out the first championship rewrap that we did hosted by Bob Kelly that's on our channel as well. Tom Brady, a lot of times did not have a dude. Really the only times he had dudes on offense was Corey Dillon. And Randy moss. Besides that, we I can't point to a guy that was

Dave Clarke : 59:44

an absolute koski

Joe Malkin : 59:46

grant an absolute superstar Yes. gronk is one of the best tight ends of all time. He's definitely Brady's best ever weapons. I think he is his best ever weapon. And I think he's as big as pinky as well which isn't a bad thing. I don't say that every every guy every person needs their pinky right long and short of it is because now I'm trying to get around this because Craig got in my head by by timing in there with Rob gronkowski. Cuz so those are his big three weapons. So cam needs one but the point is is I agree with Dave that cam needs that guy. He needs that dude, more than Tom Brady needs that dude.

Rayshawn Buchanan : 1:00:22

Yeah, I mean that That's okay. Obviously. Um, I mean, who knows? I mean, but like you said in the press conference, which I love that he said that, because I'm not sure that people were expecting to answer him when they said, Oh, so what do you think this office needs? Or do you think the guy is in the room? And he said, or what do you think is the next big weapon? He was like? Well, it's here in the room. And I love that answer from him, like whether he thought it or not like the fact that he actually said that in public was great to me, because I think it gives that confidence. And, you know, I mean, we've talked about nuclear here in the past, but I feel like he is someone that I think is adapting to how camrys as opposed to how Brady led last year, and hopefully, that's something that is a sign of the future that he does start to grow. I said, You're right, Dave, he hasn't been inconsistent right now. So that's, that's the unfortunate part. But hopefully, he is someone that can be that weapon, you know, when going to 64 to 25. I mean, you know, obviously, this guy should be the limit, but it hasn't been the case so far. So, you know, hopefully, you know, it turns around, going forward. So we'll see.

Joe Malkin : 1:01:30

So, two more questions for you as we get through the NFL here. And one the first one is a week after the New England Patriots. Were one play away from beating the Seattle Seahawks. We saw Bob Kelly's Dallas Cowboys come within the same realm. Right? They were so close against Seattle this week. And it despite the loss, is this a good cowboys team?

Unknown Speaker : 1:02:08

I thought you're gonna keep sagging.

Joe Malkin : 1:02:09

No, no, that was that.

Rayshawn Buchanan : 1:02:10

I thought it was a dog. That's my paws. No. Let me make the boys in good order. Get this I was I thought it was I thought it was a joke. I was waiting for the for the punch line.

Joe Malkin : 1:02:20

Well, let me let me make the point. And the only reason I bring this up is because we saw the Patriots lose to Seattle. And we saw it so let me rephrase this question. We saw the Patriots lose to Seattle a week ago, we saw Dallas lose to Seattle this week. This Dallas is without a doubt going to win that NFC East I'm gonna say it right now because the NFC East is absolutely terrible. Washington is bad. ferocious. Philly is bad. New York is terrible. I don't see it going any other way. I guess what my other question is is or my basic question is Seattle beats both of these teams

Dave Clarke : 1:02:58

put New England against Dallas in a one off who wins depends on the context of the situation. If it's next week, I'd say Dallas has a really good shot of winning because nothing's online if it's a Super Bowl because that's the only actual game of steaks they could play or like they both needed a win to get into the playoffs maybe at the end of the regular season. I think no one wins every single time because it's the same story like beats McCarthy no because Dallas has an identity or just kind of losers man and like I'm sorry to say that but

Joe Malkin : 1:03:27

refused so hard.

Dave Clarke : 1:03:28

I did they are though is the thing you know, it's he I made him mad in the slack cuz I was talking shit about Tony Romo as a quarterback and he got so mad. I love you Bobby, but like Tony Romo is over two in the playoffs. Like that's his whole. That's his numbers. He's not a winner, but that's not his fault. That's the Cowboys fault. When you go to the Cowboys, you lose what matters. I love it.

Unknown Speaker : 1:03:51

I love it. I love it. I love it.

Rayshawn Buchanan : 1:03:53

That's a great response. I love the

Joe Malkin : 1:03:55

Craig if you if you can isolate raisons little deep, deep tone laugh there. And we can use it for a Halloween episode. That would be great. All right, final, final NFL question, cuz we're starting to get a little slow here. The best three, you know, team in the NFL, we have the Buffalo Bills, the cam castleberry. Next question. It's very Steelers. Let me start over so so you can't interrupt me. I'm going to read the AFC teams first. The bills are three no Kansas City Chiefs Pittsburgh Steelers, Tennessee Titans. The I can't believe that in the NFC East. The Seattle Seahawks are three out the Green Bay Packers are three and oh the Chicago Bears are three you know who is the best three and AAU team in the NFL right now. Really the best three no team Dave.

Rayshawn Buchanan : 1:04:50

I'll be the best. Okay, I'll start Yeah, cuz we know what you're going to say. Um, I mean, it has to be Kansas City. I mean, we have any of the answer right now. It's, I mean, is it because you're a fan or you just you just don't like mahomes which is fine. But he's he's, that team is phenomenal. And like you said, Joe, early in the show. They made Baltimore look like a JV team. And I said on a previous show, I don't see this team losing and to me is Kansas City by far

Joe Malkin : 1:05:23

follow up question. Who's the biggest surprise three?

Rayshawn Buchanan : 1:05:27

Oh, Chicago?

Unknown Speaker : 1:05:30

Yeah.

Rayshawn Buchanan : 1:05:35

I mean,

Unknown Speaker : 1:05:38

I didn't tell you I

Rayshawn Buchanan : 1:05:42

mean, come on, but it's just like Realistically speaking, sir. Um, I didn't think that Chicago would be, you know, three and oh, but I mean, hey, don't give credit some bandag jump.

Dave Clarke : 1:05:55

All jokes aside, all jokes aside, the bears are of course, the biggest surprise three, you know, I was the season, but it's not as big of a surprise when you look at their strength of schedule across the first eight games. I mean, they just didn't haven't beat anybody. And I feel like that might have been part of Maggie's plan, too. He's like, Oh, we got a soft schedule. Let me just throw Rybicki in there. If he fails against these joke teams, like whatever Let me try and I'll try and salvage the season. But regardless, it's Yeah, it's of course it's Kansas City in the NFC. I think it's a little bit of a toss up like who's the best three? No, but probably the Seahawks. I think they look really good. But Packers sleepy, sleepy, good. You know, because like, I know, Rogers going off and he's the conversation but that Packers team is actually really good. Like, what's his name? Aaron Jones. Very good running back. He's an absolute foot. He's an absolute beast. So yeah, they're really they're sneaky. Good. I mean, I

Joe Malkin : 1:06:43

think we're as we head into the the quarter pole of the season here into week four quarter pole. that's a that's a little horse racing. Wow,

Rayshawn Buchanan : 1:06:52

vernacular. We can give you everything on the show, baby.

Joe Malkin : 1:06:55

That's right. So question, a question. That's right. I have to agree with you that the the the most surprising team is the Chicago Bears. But I think you're right. I really like I do like Matt, Matt and Matt Nagy. I think he's kind of one of those mediocre coaches that can get the job done. And for our second Marc trestman mediocre he is mediocre. Come on right now. He

Dave Clarke : 1:07:20

helped build that Kansas City offense that your state you loved so much. He just how can you lead from the lily pad while the city Hey, the most amazing officer because he's

Joe Malkin : 1:07:30

not there because he's not there right now. Because he's not there right now.

Dave Clarke : 1:07:33

The architecture that he was the best to

Joe Malkin : 1:07:35

the operation. That's great. And so was here, this well, shoot, that's not that's not gonna help my point. That's gonna help your point. So was Tony. So as Tony Dungy for the team for the Buccaneers team that won the Super Bowl with the coach that will remain unnamed. But this, the Seahawks are by far the best, the best team in the NFC. And I say, by far, because I think that's going to be the team that goes to the Super Bowl. But I I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that the Packers can't take down the Seahawks in the NFC Championship. I just think the playoffs are gonna be so much fun this year. Because

Dave Clarke : 1:08:12

I think the Seahawks, the Seahawks, Seahawks, real quick, they have the strongest three, you know, like they have the medius, three, you know, oh, without a doubt anybody in the NFL, including the chiefs, I think I think that they got pushed, I think that there was a lot of like, wildcard factors in the game. They're playing like a new Cam Newton, like all this crazy stuff could happen to them, and they saw it off. So I'm saying that's the strongest three now for them, even though I don't think that they would beat the chiefs.

Joe Malkin : 1:08:37

Now, they're not the best team, but they're the strongest three, you know, right. So again, we're only going into week four. But I like the NFC chip, like right now, after three weeks, which is so early packers and Seahawks in the NFC Championship game, you have the chiefs and the Ravens in the AFC Championship game and see what happens because I think it's just going to make for a lot of fun and a great narrative coming into the end of the NFL season. So we've gone on for a little over an hour here. And as we come to a close, I would like to go around the room to everybody with their final points of the evening. And I will start with Dave Clark.

Dave Clarke : 1:09:19

I'm sure I'm legitimately shocked the most shocking thing that happened I think this week was yesterday on Monday, recording this on Tuesday yesterday the coach of the Falcons did not get fired that was the most shocked that I was all week and probably will remain and it's crazy and it's an absolute he's Ray was right to win the forrest gump board and this one because it's a dereliction of duty to not fire him. And that's all I've got. Rachel,

Rayshawn Buchanan : 1:09:43

I've could haven't been on the show since we posted about going over 1000 downloads so just you know thank you for those that have listened, you know, we we hope and pray that you continue to listen to a lot more they have a lot more content to give and you know we are working our asses off to you know, give you the best content possible. So we appreciate the listening, appreciate the downloads, and just continue to spread the word so now once again just thank you and just continue to listen at the nose I mean also I mean we talked about doc i mean you know I talked about on a different thing when I say I want to talk to he got you know fired and you know he deserved it so you hear me Mike I'm saying that he deserved it. I'm not defending it, you know, you deserve to go.

Dave Clarke : 1:10:26

It means your signature, your signature sign off.

Rayshawn Buchanan : 1:10:30

Well I gotcha. Well that is it we know what needs to happen and like I said they they have they have not done it doesn't seem like they're going to do it. Well we do we do know that they need to handle the situation when it comes to Briana Taylor that we still need justice for her. So I'll make that clear and playing song. I appreciate that. Y'all brought that back up, cuz that is true. I'm like that sentiments not enough. So we still need justice for so. Um, yeah, I'll leave it at that.

Joe Malkin : 1:11:01

Thanks, guys. And my final thought for the week has to do with NFL week three, and the NFL as a whole. We've gone over records every week, we've talked about the Patriots. We've talked about every other team in the league, and who are surprises. We have the New England Patriots sitting at two and one, the Chicago Bears sitting at three you know, Dave's cowboys sitting at two and one. But we all know who the best teams in the NFL are through three weeks. And as we head into the quarter, Paul, I said it while we were talking about the NFL, my favourites to go to the Super Bowl right now are the Seattle Seahawks and the Kansas City Chiefs. And I'm going to stick by that and that will be my final thought for the night. My last thing to say this week during this recording is the first presidential debate. And I have to tell you it no matter how it turns out, who wins the debates go out and vote for who you believe should be the next president or the President of the United States. And that'll do it for our EP Craig D'Alessandro for Dave Clark. rayshawn Buchanan, my name is Joe Malkin. This has been episode nine of the ss w podcast. Have a great one. We'll talk to you next week.