Beyond the Arc: Thrills and Spills of the 2024 NBA Playoffs

 

Dave Clarke: Missing the point! NBA. Wow, I've loved, loved these playoffs so far, Mike. You and I, I'm here with Mike Marcangelo, I am DK Sizzle, I, you and I have not really gotten a chance to talk about the basketball playoffs since we've been sort of Balls deep in this in this playoff run, into the second round. All the narratives have been laid out.

Mike Marcangelo: We're halfway through several series. All the series are interesting in different ways. But let's take it from, let's do the, this is how I like to think about it. We'll, we'll, Go farthest away from the Celtics and bring it home to the Celtics. The Celtics will be the last thing we talk about. But let's start over in the Western Conference because I don't know how closely you've been following the, the epic battles, the Mount Olympus, uh, level battles of the, of the Western Conference.

Mike Marcangelo: Or, as I like to call it, the conference containing whatever team is going to win the championship. But, we'll get there. Uh, I mean, I just mean overall, like when I watch the Western Conference games, and then I watch the Eastern Conference games, the quality of basketball in the Western Conference is much higher.

Mike Marcangelo: Does that mean that the Celtics can't, you know, rise to a, uh, to a level? And that, because they are a little bit, like, they do kind of play down to their level a lot? It's one of the things we hate the most about this team maybe, but, like, everybody in the Western Conference is, like, pretty good and all does things that make me really nervous, um, to see the play, to see the Celtics go up against them.

Mike Marcangelo: So, Let's start with my favorite series so far, which is the Nuggets and the Timberwolves. I don't know if you know this, but I am actually no longer a Celtics fan. I'm now just an Anthony Edwards fan. Um, I, how much do you remember when Tiger Woods hit the scene? 

Dave Clarke: I mean, I was 10, so I, I think Were you into golf yet?

Dave Clarke: No, no, but it just, I think it, seeing him, it was like 97 Masters, or the 98, one of those, I was just like, holy shit, he's Cause it was, it was just coming off of Jordan's final run in basketball. And you were like, there's just like, that is the greatest athlete. And I, you know, you and I have had this debate before about golf, golfers being athletes, but like the transition from that perennial championship winner in one sport, then right into Tiger, who just didn't lose for 10 years, 

Mike Marcangelo: I, 

Dave Clarke: that's why I look back on that so fondly.

Dave Clarke: And I feel like where you're going with this is. You know, uh, one of MJ's bastard kids is just gonna take over the league again, Anthony Edwards. 

Mike Marcangelo: It's, it's just that, I don't know, I mean, like, it's impossible to make this prediction based on just what we've seen basketball wise, because if you just take it basketball wise, you can sort of say, he's really young, the signs are there, it's incredibly promising.

Mike Marcangelo: The Nuggets might prove to be too much for what he has right now, but like the Celtics proved to be too much for MJ at a certain point, and then like he got the correct sporting cast and hit the right age and became who he is. It could go either way, and it's a small hole to hit, you know, it's no bigger than a womp rat, but I did use to bullseye womp rats in my T16 back home, so it's possible that yeah, he could get to that level.

Mike Marcangelo: The thing that is sticking out to me is the outside of basketball impact on the zeitgeist. I feel like the thing that happened when Tiger hit the scene, which I don't remember when, when Jordan emerged, he was just always there. He was in the culture, but I remember Tiger happening to, to society, you know, like everybody all of a sudden knew who Tiger Woods was.

Mike Marcangelo: There was conversations around every water cooler in America, nay the world, about this crazy, phenomenal, clearly going to be the goat, a golfer. And it sort of was, it, it mattered too much that it was like bigger than golf. You know, it was Tiger versus the field was it was bigger than golf. And I just think he's got all those qualities.

Mike Marcangelo: You know, he's just got the qualities to just sort of enter all of our brains and not leave until he's good and ready. And in addition to that, he's a fucking baller. Like, I just love watching him play basketball. Beautiful, beautiful game. Would you like it if something like that happened? Would that be good, even though he's not a Celtic?

Mike Marcangelo: Would you, would you take the atheist approach, sports atheist, if a sports atheist approach where you say like, this is just good for the culture, baby? 

Dave Clarke: Yeah, I think I would, especially because it's a, it's a smaller market. Right, so if you see the emergence of what could be the next great player in the league, and it's from not a top 10 market, and they just start dominating and becoming perennials, yeah, I think that's, I think that's good for the, I think that's good for basketball, because you're always gonna have fans in New York, LA, Boston, like all the big markets, but if you can start saying, like, you too, in a small, in a small town, uh, can have, like, the next guy, right?

Dave Clarke: I think interest just continues to go up. I also think that he is, I think, uh, you and Ray talked about this last week and I really, I loved it so much that I wanted to just kind of rehash him, is that he is the perfect complement to, to Kat, right? Cause I think we've always just said that, you know, uh, we, we would want Kat here because someone like Jaylen Brown would get him going.

Dave Clarke: Anthony Edwards is Jaylen Brown on fucking steroids. I know. Like he, and you can see it, like he is, he's made Kat better. He's made this entire culture, uh, for the Timberwolves better, like they've been, they went on some hard times after, after KG left, right? And to think that he's just, you know, we said this about Tatum all those years ago, but he's fucking 22.

Dave Clarke: And he's, and he's already just, you know, dropping his sack on the entire league. I mean, he's better than any 

Mike Marcangelo: 22 year old I've ever seen. Absolutely. I mean, yeah. I mean, honestly, yeah. I, I think that the obvious, obvious comparables are Kobe, LeBron, Kevin Garnett, you know, the high school guys. I just. I don't know.

Mike Marcangelo: I, it's, he's got that team. 

Dave Clarke: has a chance, he has a chance to be better than LeBron because I do, I, listen, this is not, I don't mean to be disrespectful, LeBron's gonna be, he's one of the greatest basketball players in, in the history of the game. LeBron wasn't the best player, or wasn't the most dominant force in his era.

Dave Clarke: Anthony Edwards could be. 

Mike Marcangelo: You think Steph Curry was the most dominant force in his era? In LeBron's era? 

Dave Clarke: Yeah, I mean, I think every, every championship team that LeBron was on, they, they went against the other dynasties of, of his era, like the Spurs. And the fuckin Warriors. And they all had, you know, lightning in the bottle.

Dave Clarke: LeBron was never on the most dominant team of his era. 

Mike Marcangelo: Right. Right. I think from a basketball sense, I really think the Nuggets deserve a little bit of piece of a conversation, too, after coming back in that series, like, you know, both teams have won their away games, essentially. I do think, like, we, collectively as basketball, like, talking heads, owe the Nuggets a little bit of an apology, where it was like, okay, everybody did shit on them a little bit, but they definitely do have that dog in them.

Mike Marcangelo: Jamal Murray kind of miraculously coming back from that leg injury, uh, and playing lights out for two games. Like, the guy literally couldn't fucking miss. I don't know what part of, like, deep Mexico or South Africa or whatever he went to, and what, like, piece of, like, you know, what village sacrificed. Uh, their best athletes ACL in exchange for, you know, uh, an extended, an extended time of food and, and, and, uh, and plenty.

Mike Marcangelo: But someone did and Jamal Murray's back, uh, with a vengeance. Joker is obviously inhuman, but they did make him look human in those first two games. And I think that it's a very young team and there is still the Karl Anthony Towns factor and I mean, Rudy Gobert in game four, that was one of the most diabolically bad.

Mike Marcangelo: Performances I've ever seen. And this is coming off the narrative conversation of Rudy Gobert, defensive player of the year. How many times does he want it? He's so good. He's this, he's that. That guy looked like somebody like just gave him the Frankenstein treatment with an ice pick before he walked out onto the court.

Mike Marcangelo: He looked so bad and fumbly and stupid. His offensive production was terrible. Uh, his decision making was awful. His, he fouled at all the wrong times and he basically gave them. Whatever that eight point cushion was that they kept for the that the Nuggets kept for the entire game. Boneheaded decisions at halftime, like, very much like young team syndrome, just like, shit.

Mike Marcangelo: Like, this is getting away from us. Like, we're we're not and still very talented, and and Anthony Edwards still went and got his, like, he was the best looking guy on the court. Carl Anthony Townsend looked Abysmal. Abysmal. He was taking, taking all the wrong shots. He was shooting from too deep. He, he was, he, he had no presence in the paint.

Mike Marcangelo: The only reason that they didn't lose by 50 was, was the fact that they had Anthony Edwards. Like that team would have gone absolutely moshed if Anthony Edwards wasn't there. So I was still kind of like, my boy is, is, You know, it's not his fault. This is going down. 

Dave Clarke: Yeah, if Andy puts up 25 points instead of, you know, his 44, that's a blowout.

Dave Clarke: I mean, they lose by 30. I mean, the Nuggets had six points off of Rudy Gobert's five turnovers. Just him alone. I mean, that's fucking awful. Could have been worse. Could 

Mike Marcangelo: have been worse. 

Dave Clarke: Like, my takeaway from this series so far is you had the defending champs on the ropes. You had the defending champs on the ropes.

Mike Marcangelo: I know. 

Dave Clarke: And, and you fucking let them back in. Now, like this, if, if the Nuggets win this series, right? If the Nuggets win this series, let's just say, like, if they went in in six and they just, they just go four in a row, you know, I would make the argument that the Nuggets, like, they rope a doped the Timberwolves, right?

Dave Clarke: Like they just, they stood there, they took their fucking best shot, and then. Yoakish was like, I'm still gonna put up 28, 14, and 10 every game, and you're not going to be looking up 

Mike Marcangelo: a thing. They just weren't missing, though. Like, I don't know if Jamal Murray and Aaron Gordon are gonna have the same, like, Jamal Murray maybe, but Aaron Gordon had fucking lights out game, dude.

Mike Marcangelo: My guy did not miss, and he's just not that dude. He's just not that dude. He's not You 

Dave Clarke: can go back to the finals, any one of the finals shows that you did last year, and you'll hear yourself say the exact Same. Thing. About Aaron. Aaron Parker Gordon. He's still not that dude. I don't give a fuck. Right. But he just does it in the postseason.

Dave Clarke: Every once in 

Mike Marcangelo: a while. I guess so. I guess so. We'll have to have that, almost that same conversation about Jrue Holliday in a little bit. But, uh, my question to you about this series as an overall, because I think you're about to allude to this, is I find it very difficult to predict where this series is going to go, waney already.

Mike Marcangelo: Like, the, the, the smart money would be on, you know, Okay, now the T wolves are going to go back to Denver, have to play at altitude again. They're not going to be able to fight through it the way they were able to fight through it for the first two because the momentum is going against them. Denver are champions for a reason.

Mike Marcangelo: They're going to smell blood in the water. They're going to step on their neck. But every single game, and every single couplet of games, has Completely gone the opposite direction of the, of the common sense narrative going into it. So that makes me want to zag, you know, and I'm very nervous to say definitively what I think is going to happen.

Mike Marcangelo: Like that situation I just described is probably most likely, but like, Are we sure Anthony Edwards isn't secretly making all of the locker room of the Timberwolves psychopaths like him, and he's just gonna go out there and like, this is his last dance moment, like I took that shit personally, with a fucking cognac in a ludicrous house, with rooms he's probably never been in, like, you know, is that, are we seeing that in real time?

Mike Marcangelo: I don't know, I mean I think the MJ comparisons from like complete overreactors like me are a little probably unfair to him, but, 

Dave Clarke: where do you 

Mike Marcangelo: think the series is gonna go, and, I mean, what does that do to, to, to Anthony Edwards and if I can see if he's able to overcome this? 

Dave Clarke: If, if, if we believe that, uh, that patterns are, they actually exist in the NBA, then I think that, uh, Game 5 is going to be a blowout.

Dave Clarke: Because it, it has been close game, blowout close clo or sorry, close game. Blowout, blowout close game. So now we have to have that 20 point win. So, gun to head. I, I think this is gonna go, I think it's gonna go seven. I still think that the, the nuggets just by a war of attrition like you, that is how they play 

Mike Marcangelo: though.

Mike Marcangelo: The war of attrition is how they play and that's how why I, they're the team. I wanna play the least in the finals. 'cause the Celtics cannot withstand their brains. will explode in real time. Joe Mazzullo may take his own life on the court. Like, I can't. Like, their brains are, they're so incredibly fragile, as, mentally, as a team.

Mike Marcangelo: And like, we've, until we start saying that out loud, like, they just are. And especially watching what the, watching what the Teewolves did in the first two games against Denver, I was like, oh my fucking god, this is exactly how I want my team to play. They're just ferocious defensively, so they have an easier time of it offensively, because they're just, the other team's just rattled.

Mike Marcangelo: And, If it went 7, like you said, it is in strong contention to be my favorite series of basketball of all time that isn't a final series. And, uh, I really, if it goes 7, so much crazy shit's gonna happen before, before game 7. Every game just feels like so much fun. The thing that makes me believe that the Nuggets are going to win this game, uh, this series, other than the fact that the defending champions and they have probably the best, the best center of our lifetime, he will go down to probably a top three center of all time.

Dave Clarke: They responded to a 26 point loss. Just for the record, I think it's still Shaq. Yeah, yeah, for sure. But they responded, they responded to a 26 point loss. By handing 27 point fucking beat down two nights later. I know. They just aren't phased. They're not phased at all. Which is scary. Like that is the scariest fucking part about this team.

Dave Clarke: I mean, championship DNA. Yeah. If, if it exists, like that's what it is. You know, just, just motherfuckers that don't, they don't freeze up on you in the pocket. Yep. You know, like, they don't, they don't, they get calmer, they get, they, they're ice cold, you know, and like the, the nuggets do have ice in their veins.

Mike Marcangelo: Like they just did exactly what they needed to do. Methodical. One step at a time, one brick at a time, like they just lay the house around you, it's like the cask of the Amontillado, and they just like bury you, one brick at a time, until you're like, wait, are you burying me in here? And then it's too late.

Mike Marcangelo: Too late. It's too late. You're done. You're buried alive. Quicksand. They're quicksand incarnate. I mean, I like the Nuggets too is the thing. I, there's a lot of like animosity towards them, but I really like how Joker plays basketball. And so it's just been a lot of fun to watch like two high level teams go at each other and definitely the highest level of any series that we're about to talk about.

Mike Marcangelo: I think whoever, I think whoever comes out of that series is winning the championship. I'm just going to tell you that right now. I mean, I'm rooting for the Celtics, but it would be dumb to say that they're going to do it. 

Dave Clarke: I just, I want, I want podcasts. D DK to talk to Discord DK and just figure out like an in between because when the Southeast are going, everything's going well, you're just like, this team's fucking cooking.

Dave Clarke: They were saving it for the playoffs. But I think you're just overcompensating because you know that if that well oiled machine runs into the Nuggets in the finals, we I guess we could beat them, but we just, we probably won't. 

Mike Marcangelo: Discord is a place where I dump all the most extreme emotions I'm feeling about my sports team, and so I can get to this place where we can podcast and I can sound like a rational adult.

Mike Marcangelo: Right, and I think, I think this is the real me telling you. I have strong, strong concerns about the Celtics facing anybody in the Western Conference. And I also am a little concerned about the quality of the championship if we do win it. Because 

Dave Clarke: I don't care about that. 

Mike Marcangelo: Fuck that. A ring's a ring. Sure, but like, I'll present it to you in a more Mike way then.

Mike Marcangelo: The embarrassment. Of fucking up against any of the remaining Eastern Conference teams is going to be nigh on impossible to live down. It will be an all time fuck up. Everyone knows it, everyone's primed for it. The Celtics are looking down the barrel of facing and defeating a Jimmy Butler less Miami Heat, a sometimes Donovan Mitchell less Cleveland Cavaliers.

Mike Marcangelo: A full blown funeral home of New York Knicks and Derrick Brunson on one leg, and then, I mean, I don't know, by that rate, we're facing the fucking Mavericks in the final, and Luka will full on have had his leg amputated by that point, and he'll be on one of those robot legs they give to, like, sprinters, and we'll find a way to lose that game.

Mike Marcangelo: To be honest, and it'll be Kyrie Irving that like drives the fucking stake through our heart, I, we have an all time easy walk right now, and if the Nuggets do make it to the finals, or if the T Wolves do make it to the finals, they're going to be beat up. Whoever makes it out of the Western Conference is going to be absolutely beat up.

Mike Marcangelo: We can walk to the Western Conference final, to the, to the, uh, NBA finals, poor Zing is just like, oh, I'm good, I needed that rest, my calf feels great, and we could win it, I don't know but we're not at the Celtics yet. Stop jumping ahead. 

Dave Clarke: Yeah, I'm sorry. 

Mike Marcangelo: No, speaking of the Mavericks what did you make of the Luka Kyrie tandem, which I did say had the potential to be one of the most dominant backcourts in the league when the trade happened and everyone was like, no dude, Kyrie's gonna fuck it up over there, which, fair enough.

Mike Marcangelo: Like, the Kyrie heel turn, or, or, I guess, about turn, yeah, um, into, like, quietly getting the job done, Kyrie, uh, is, is welcome in, in NBA terms, I would say and he's also Honestly, been playing some of his best playoff basketball he's been really, really fun to watch. He has, he's kind of always fun to watch, to be honest, which is why I sort of stuck with him for longer than maybe I should have and like, Luka's honestly just bringing the pageantry, like, he's so dramatic, like, every time he hits the fuck, he's so European.

Mike Marcangelo: Every time he hits the deck, it's like, oh, it's like, it's like he's been shot. But I kind of like it. It's really adding like a sort of a Phantom of the Opera, sort of like, like an operatic, large score situation to the, to the NBA Western Conference playoffs. I've been, I've been enjoying it. He's really hyping up the, the vaudevillian costume theater of it all, you know?

Mike Marcangelo: And because it's not something that happens all the time, it's kind of funny when it happens when, when Luca does it. So, what have you made of those guys? And I've been very impressed with SGA he's sort of still at times look like the most, most probable player to win a series on the floor to me. But it's a fun battle of a bunch of really good guards, which is like just, those are just fun games to watch.

Mike Marcangelo: Uh, so what have you made of that series so far, and which backcourt do you think is going to win it for their team? 

Dave Clarke: I mean, it should be Luka and Kyrie, just for the, for the mere point of just the talent that both of those SGA might 

Mike Marcangelo: be a top five guy. 

Dave Clarke: Okay, but is, is the number two on OKC better than Kyrie or Luka?

Mike Marcangelo: No, but So that's it. Well, I mean, I don't know, you could make it Chet's good. Like, he's good. I just think their 1 5 is better. And I think they have the best player. Potentially. So Especially with Luka. I don't know, man. I think, I 

Dave Clarke: think on his Still, he's a little bit older, but if, at his best, I still think Kyrie is a top 10 player in the league, and at his absolute best, I think that Luka is a top 10, top 5 player in the league.

Dave Clarke: One of the things that you and Ray have kind of, you know, I've been chirping about, like in my ear about all year, or ever since the, uh, I would say the trade deadline of this year, is just look at the Mavs defense, they're actually playing defense. They're actually playing better defense. And you see it, like, Kyrie was not known for his defensive prowess when he was here in Boston, obviously neither was Luka, I think the biggest transition has been, uh, once Kyrie has decided that he does not want to be the focal point, and he wants to put everyone else on the starting five over.

Dave Clarke: That's when that team's the most dangerous. Like, when he is the facilitator, they're doing great. Now, I know that Luka primarily is the ball handler, right, and everything goes through him, but if you see off the ball, Kyrie moving around, directing everybody, that's when he's at his best, and he can still fucking kill you with a teardrop, uh, like a mid range shot, and then his, his, his, his acceleration to the hoop is so deceptively quick, That it's, you don't even know what, like, you don't even know where he's gonna go and then he's already laid the ball up into the basket.

Mike Marcangelo: He's doing really good. I agree he's doing a really good, like, I, I am happy to be the second guy at times. Like I'm happy to just like score whenever you need me to score because I'm pretty automatic from like these three spots and I can get to these three spots pretty much whenever I want. Because of his size, like, and I noticed this when he was a Celtic too, like because of his size, there's like ways.

Mike Marcangelo: to slow him down, right? Like, there's just you can you he still might kill you, he could still hit a game winner on you, he's really good off the ball. I I fucking I would give my left testicle if Jayson Tatum were ever ever take a fucking off the ball spot up. No, no, 

Dave Clarke: no, can't do that. Sorry, later. 

Mike Marcangelo: Um, but I think like Kyrie in this sort of iteration of his game, like I think he gets to his spot really, really well and goes up really confidently and I think that's just like a thing that they've been able to sort of rely on when like Luke is not doing crazy shit and he hasn't had like the best playoffs ever, but he's like, he's doing, he's doing a lot, but.

Mike Marcangelo: I think, to me, having like a possible top 5 guy, possible top 10 guy isn't as good as possibly having the best guy. And I think SGA, most people wanted him to, like, I, I think it got all fucked up because I think he beat one MVP last year and it should have been, it should have been Joker. And I think you, He should've given MVP to SGA this year, I just think he was the best player, and also like, you know, amount of minutes played, and like, that stuff should factor in, and then Joker got in, it's like, it's a make up call from last year, why did you just not fuck up, like, that's how bad that MVP vote was last year, it's like, fucking up this year's, and I think SGA was the, the MVP, and, there was a moment, With about five minutes left in yesterday's game, where it's like, they have to tie this fucking series up, like, they don't want to go down 3 1, where he just, like, he's just such a quiet assassin, you know, he doesn't ever go, like, it's not that loud, like, it's not BANG, you know, it's just If he just goes about his business, and you look, and you're like, how does he have 37 points?

Mike Marcangelo: And it's like, that's, he's like, not actively talked about enough, but like, yesterday, he was like, alright. And he just started hitting every single shot. Like, he just became automatic, and then the game was just too far away. And Luka and Curry were on the court. And I witnessed that moment and I was like, you know what, that's, Oklahoma City are coming out of this series for sure.

Mike Marcangelo: And they might be low key more dangerous than we thought, and they're about to face whoever comes out of the other series. And whoever comes out of the other series is going to be traumatized. Because it's going to be one of the craziest series ever. 

Dave Clarke: If it's Denver, Denver does all the right things to slow down a team like Yeah, I mean, the best stat line about SGA's performance the other night, or last night, was the fact that he took, what, he took 27 shots.

Dave Clarke: The efficiency, yeah. 

Mike Marcangelo: Only 

Dave Clarke: 1 3. He just made, he was like, oh, I'm not gonna fucking just throw up trays. It just, he, anyone, he, 52 percent on the fucking field, are you out of your mind? Are, I mean, and, not for nothing, 27 shots, everyone knows that he, that he's gonna get the ball, and he's gonna try and score, and they, they just couldn't stop him.

Dave Clarke: There's nothing they can do about it. Did you watch Game of 

Mike Marcangelo: Thrones? Um, he gives me like White Walker vibes, but like in the first episode when like the White Walker is like emerges from the fucking, the far, you know, away wasteland, far away from you and your safe, comfortable little home where like Derek White can hit a lot of threes in the regular season.

Mike Marcangelo: And I'm really hoping that it actually turns out like the White Walkers at the end where like it's at they're actually super lame and they get killed by like 11 year old girls or whatever. Spoiler alert for those of you haven't seen the shittiest season of Game of Thrones. What a, what a fucking disaster.

Mike Marcangelo: Oh my god, you guys. What were you guys thinking? Wouldn't you have just waited? Wouldn't you have just been like, I'll do it when George does the book? 

Dave Clarke: Yeah, maybe don't turn the most lovable character that you spent six years building heel in one fucking episode. 

Mike Marcangelo: Was it Tyrion you're talking about or the Khaleesi?

Mike Marcangelo: Khaleesi. Yeah. Cause, well, Tyrion just got shitty. Like he just, he, they, he just lost every kind of like discernible character trait. Right. And then the Khaleesi. Yeah. I mean, you got to tease that out, babe. Right. Like you got to give us some more story beats like before she goes fucking cuckoo bananas, bro.

Mike Marcangelo: Like I can't, like she was just woke up crazy one day. Men writing women. Jesus Christ. Okay. Yep. Moving on back to the basketball. Should do it. We should do a House of the Dragon watch along pod. Do you watch that? I do. Dragon tails, I call it. 

Dave Clarke: Yeah. I mean, I'm, I'm very excited. 

Mike Marcangelo: Every Sunday that dragon Tails is on the, 

Dave Clarke: the, the younger version of, of the Arian girl was, was way more enjoyable than the older version, but I digress.

Mike Marcangelo: Yeah, but what about when she does interviews? She's great. They're great. I think. It's they. But Spagliata. I mean, come on. It was worth it just for that. 

Dave Clarke: With Prosecco in it. Come on. That was so good. They're trying to 

Mike Marcangelo: redo it now. I'm seeing those two interview each other on like the HBO TikToks and they're trying to get that back.

Mike Marcangelo: But they're never going to capture lightning in a bottle twice. It's not going to meme itself. You can't force a meme. That's how the internet works. I digress. Badly. Yeah, anyway, I hope that, uh, I hope that he's not the white walker that I think he is because he, he, he's, there's a world where he's just like the impending death of our season and therefore our team because, uh, little tease, big market tease for later, if the Celtics don't win this year, we probably have to blow the whole fucking thing up.

Mike Marcangelo: And I mean the building, not the team, I'm just kidding. Let's do the Knicks and the Pacers before we go on to the Celtics. They're currently playing, it's 44 33, New York. What have you made of this series so far? I feel like, if I'm, I, the fanbase that can closely relate, most closely relate to the Boston fanbase right now I would imagine is the Pacers, because it's like, 

Dave Clarke: they're all injured!

Dave Clarke: Just win the fucking game, they're all injured. 

Mike Marcangelo: I don't think, I would love to see Indiana in the next round, obviously, that would be my choice. I think like, Brunson is probably going to spell danger for us, because he seems to be able to spell danger for everybody. I have some thoughts about his, his size, that I've already gone over on this show.

Mike Marcangelo: But, they're tied 2 2 right now, New York is looking like they're probably going to win this game. I mean, it's only the second quarter, you never know, but. What the fuck, Indiana, right? I mean, what the fuck? What is up with them? Wouldn't you be so mad if you were a fucking Pacers fan right now? You'd be yelling at all six of your wives.

Dave Clarke: I mean, you're going up against an infirmary of a team, and their one star apparently just, let's just leave talent out, has more fucking grit than you. Like, he's just willing his entire team to be better than all five of your starters. 

Mike Marcangelo: You know what I mean? He's kind 

Dave Clarke: of a 

Mike Marcangelo: stud, dude. He's kind of a stud. I didn't want him to be good.

Mike Marcangelo: Like, I was sort of anti Brunson for a while. Like, I think partially because he was a Knick. Not much. Yeah, okay. Let's see. Yeah, let's see if fucking, if the Knicks have, like, oh, that guy that they think they have. Like, I doubt it. But he might be that dude. He genuinely might be that dude. He, he's really small for our backcourt though.

Mike Marcangelo: If the Celtics face him, I, I don't know. We, on paper, I mean, I know we never do it like this as a fucking Boston team, but on paper, we should be able to close down that whole Knicks backcourt. They're 1 3 4, their tallest guy is 6 foot 5. 1 3 4. And they have a 7 footer that starts at 5. 

Dave Clarke: What we'll do is we'll try and play, we'll try and beat them at their game.

Mike Marcangelo: Right. 

Dave Clarke: Instead of making them play ours. 

Mike Marcangelo: Right. We might as well just come out in some Knicks jerseys. 

Dave Clarke: Be like, I do, I mean, I do love Jaylen Brunson and his brother Pat, like you said earlier. I mean, I think, I think the whole Brunson family is just great.

Dave Clarke: He's not going to talk though. 

Mike Marcangelo: Sorry, I was watching him shoot. Um, tell me this, riddle me this, who would, you would obviously rather the Pacers in the next round, but you don't think that's going to happen. No, I'd rather the Knicks. Really? Because they're all beat up? We're going to come on to talking about how it was tough for us to play.

Mike Marcangelo: You're like, your famous line is the Celtics losing against a team with an injured starter. 

Dave Clarke: Yeah, but here's why I would rather play the Knicks is because I think that even though, uh, yes, it's, it's on the court, it would probably be easier because Jaylen Brunson is their only thing that they go through and he does seem to be pretty formidable.

Dave Clarke: But I do love the thought of them having to beat another, what we consider to be great coaching mind. Right, so I think that it, it, it, it does add some, some swagger to the fact that even if, yeah, Jimmy Butler didn't play, you still have to beat Spock, great, and now you're going to beat Tibbs, also great.

Dave Clarke: And then it gets you in line, okay, yeah, maybe they didn't have their best players, but great coaches are supposed to make their teams better. And you still beat them. So I like having that. Okay. 

Mike Marcangelo: I think Tom Thibodeau is a good coach. But if you, if the game was 74 minutes long, he would play you 74 minutes.

Mike Marcangelo: Like, 

Dave Clarke: there's a reason 

Mike Marcangelo: his whole team is fucking injured right now, and it's because they all play far too many minutes. Yeah, Julius 

Dave Clarke: Randall's feet just fell off. Yeah, like made of 

Mike Marcangelo: eggshells. Like he trusts, I think he trusts like maybe his accountant and maybe his wife and no one else on this earth. He trusts like the first five guys on his roster and everyone else he thinks they're out to get him.

Mike Marcangelo: He's pretty convinced, in fact. Um, I don't know. I think he's a great coaching mind, but like, and I do think it would, but like, that's not going to be the prevailing narrative. The narrative is going to be like, they don't have any fucking players. They're all beat up. Some are coming back, sure. But like, they're all fucking beat up and we're just getting killed by them.

Mike Marcangelo: And we, and the narrative is going to be, I can't believe we lost game two at home again. I can't believe we lost game two for the third time in a row. It's the fact that, all right, let's just talk about the Celtics. Cause I, It's the dogs are itching to get released here. It's the fact that they can't solve problems.

Mike Marcangelo: It's not the fact that there are problems. It's the fact that when there are problems, the problems never go away. They never get addressed. It's like being married to an emotionally unavailable person that just like, you know, you're like, hey, could you possibly change this minor behavior that like, you know, that would, it would really help me out because when you do this really easy to fix thing, it fucking annoys me.

Mike Marcangelo: And they go like, nah, I'm not going to do that. I'm just going to keep doing what I'm doing, actually. And that, uh, I would imagine would make you want to commit murder. So, I sometimes want to kill the Boston Celtics. And it doesn't mean I don't love them. Just because I'm mad, it doesn't mean I don't love them.

Mike Marcangelo: But, my issue, I'm just going to start with Tatum, because my issue is Jayson Tatum. That's my issue with this team. My issue is the trick or treat nature of his game. The fact that we're still in a place where doing four things that he's able to do really well mean he's having a good game, and then doing like three things that he thinks he's really good at, but in fact isn't, is what he does the other half of the time.

Mike Marcangelo: Right? And, I watch Anthony Edwards, and I go like, why can't you be more like that young man? Like, that's, that's sort of the, like, the sort of old relationship that me and Jayson Tatum are in right now, because he's still doing a lot of the things that he's always done, and they really fucking annoy me.

Mike Marcangelo: Namely, and I'll start with this question to you. Namely, not showing up in the fucking fourth quarter, dude. Is there a quality of his that enrages you more than that? Do you think it's the whole second half? Or is it just the fourth quarter? And like, is it a decision making issue? Is he not clutch? Like, what's the, what's the problem?

Dave Clarke: I think what, what pisses me off the most about this scenario is, is, is because of how Much he shows up in the first. The game, like everything revolves around him. We are at his will in the first quarter, almost every single game. You can literally take it to the bank that Tatum's gonna put up between 13 to 18 points every first quarter.

Dave Clarke: And then he will probably put together 10 points for the rest of the game. And The majority of his points, which I don't have a problem with, by the way, I think you should do it more, are when he's filed to go into the rim and he shoots phenomenal from the free throw line. So maybe you do that more instead of your stupid fucking fadeaway jumpers.

Dave Clarke: Sorry, like, you shoot 23 percent on those. Stop taking them. 

Mike Marcangelo: I don't think, this is gonna be a little bit of a hot take, I don't think that we need Jayson Tatum to score that much. I think. If he just took what the game gave him, from a scoring perspective, and did this other thing that he can do, where he's very much the guy in control of the whole basketball game.

Mike Marcangelo: He can just, he can just control the whole game. He really can. When he makes good decisions and gets to certain spots, when he goes and playmakes from the post, when he playmakes from the perimeter. When he gets to, when he gets to the corner and makes like a, you know, a good long pass because he's got great vision because he's so tall and he can like pass really well inside.

Mike Marcangelo: He rebounds like an absolute animal sometimes and he has the frame and the athleticism to be one of the better front court rebounders of people in his like sort of dimensions. I'm not asking him to go fucking body Joel Embiid, but like he should be making moves in the area of the, of the floor that he's in.

Mike Marcangelo: defensively with his athleticism and his length. And I just like when he, I like him better when he plays like that, to be honest. And I fully don't think he's that good of a three point shooter. He's like the 56th best three point shooter in the playoffs right now. Like, I'm not even joking. It's somewhere around 

Dave Clarke: there.

Dave Clarke: That was very specific, so I thought, I figured it was true. 

Mike Marcangelo: I, it's right around there. That step back. Like, pull up three, like, it looks cool when it goes in. This is the problem. It looks cool when it fucking goes in, but I don't think it actually has ever gone in one time. I think he's missed every single time he's ever taken it.

Mike Marcangelo: That's how it feels when he shoots it. 

Dave Clarke: Right, it's like the opposite of how you feel when Derek White jacks up a three. Like, I said this to you last time. I 

Mike Marcangelo: don't know, he went fucking missing last game too. I know, 

Dave Clarke: but I think I said this to you in the Discord. I, I have, I just believe in my heart that every time he shoots a three it's gonna go in.

Dave Clarke: Yeah. I don't know why, I just do. 

Mike Marcangelo: Yeah, I mean, that feeling you're talking about was the absolute far and away best thing about the 08 Celtics. That was the best thing and that we were so spoiled because we had three guys. That every time they shot the ball, you were 100 percent convinced it was going in.

Mike Marcangelo: And if it was like Paul Pierce, plus the fourth quarter, plus like a really like intense situation, you were like more confident that we were going to fucking make the shot, you know what I mean? And they were a team of big moments. Yep. And I would rather be a team of big moments than a super talented team because.

Mike Marcangelo: All you have to do is play well enough to get you to a moment, and then you just outclass the other team in that scenario, and this Celtics team is decidedly not like that. And it makes me very, very nervous, because unless we're winning by 25, I'm very nervous about winning at all, you know? 

Dave Clarke: Yeah, and that's, the whole methodology or mindset here, when I say like, this is a, they're frontrunners, you just know it, if they don't have A 35 point first quarter, or they're not leading by 18 somewhere in the, in the third, it's, it's a high probability that, that you're gonna lose that game if you're a Celtics.

Dave Clarke: I said this to, again, this is so weird to say about a team that won 64 and 18. There's no team that I trust more to blow a 20 point lead than the Boston Celtic. 

Mike Marcangelo: Yeah, they won 64 games. I, I genuinely think that if they could play like they're dominating a regular season game all the time, they would win like every single game.

Mike Marcangelo: I think they have enough talent. It's just the fact that they are a bunch of pussies. That's the part that really gets me. I mean, we just have to dig down into the idea of the, of the, the fact that there's something really soft about the core of the team. And like, unless. Unless somebody goes in and, like, on the inside recognizes what the fuck that is and decides to, like, Buck the narrative, you know, buck the trend, and, and take, I need Jayson Tatum to be able to take over a basketball game at will in the fourth quarter.

Mike Marcangelo: I know that there's not that many players that have been able to do that in the history of the NBA, but like, that's pretty much how you win a championship now. So, Paul Pierce could do it, and I'll tell you, right now, if Tatum is not more talented of A basketball player than Paul Pierce then you aren't watching like it's he just is like he can do more things at a higher level But I would 100 percent take Pierce in a in right now prime Pierce over Jason Tatum right now with this team I'm taking Pierce ten times out of ten like without twice on Sundays without hesitation because he's clutch as fuck He can do a lot of the same things that that Tatum can do and he's gonna lead he's gonna lead I know he's gonna lead I 

Dave Clarke: think the difference there, right, is just, if I could sum it up, you know, nice, plain and simple, is Paul Pierce crescendoed to the fourth quarter.

Mike Marcangelo: Yeah. Yeah, he knew how to manage himself through a game. 

Dave Clarke: Really, really well. And Tatum will get, he will put up 30 points, and I'm not trying to shit on 30 points. I really am not. But I think 30 points means a little bit less when 16 of them are in the first quarter and everyone's firing on all cylinders.

Dave Clarke: Like, your team put up 38 points in the first quarter. Yeah. 

Mike Marcangelo: But there's, but there's moments in that where he had to have been special, and you're watching moments of him being purely special, like a special, special basketball player. He has those moments, but he, it's like he can't, he can't access them at the right times.

Mike Marcangelo: And I, I want to, I want to keep believing that that is a couple of adjustments away from happening and not just something you're innately born with and have to either be able to do or not. You're not able to do it. You know what I mean? Like, I need to think that he's almost like lined up the shot and he's about to just like have that one game that makes us all go because he hasn't shut us up, Mike.

Mike Marcangelo: Like he hasn't, he'll have like a good game or whatever. And, and, he's, his last two performances have been good. They're not like, yo, shut the fuck up, obviously, now. Cause you're wrong. Now, from this point forward, if you say it, you're wrong. Or you try to make an observation about what could be going on, or, or, or, Because we're not just, we're not crazy.

Mike Marcangelo: You know, like, I'm not gonna get gaslit. I'm not gonna get gaslit into the fucking idea that, like, me and a lot of people I know are just, like, making shit up about Jayson Tatum that, like, isn't right there in front of your fucking eyes to see. And I, it just, it, I want him to be good. I don't want this to be the case.

Mike Marcangelo: But, you watch Anthony Edwards, you watch Joker, you watch SGA, you watch Kyrie, I mean, Luka, the guys that, Brunson, the guys that, everyone has a guy at this point, at this moment in time, like everybody's got the frontrunner, leader, captain, the Leonidas of their team. And I'm just worried our guy is like more of a prince than a knight, you know?

Dave Clarke: I wholeheartedly agree with that assessment. And the, the, one of the most aggravating parts of it too, is if we just want to transition into also Jaylen Brown, is that Jaylen wants to be the guy. I know I kind of want, he, at this point, I kind of just want him to be at this point. He fucking wants to be, just put him off the leash, dude.

Dave Clarke: Fuck it. He tries. He tries so fucking hard. But he doesn't have the same talent level as Tatum and Tatum like, like you are alluding to now. Actually flat out said and crunch time or in big moments. He just doesn't want any part of having the ball like he defers. And it's going to be hard to be the best player on your team when you defer in all crunch time scenarios.

Dave Clarke: And there's 

Mike Marcangelo: two different ways that he defers. There's a way that I'm, tell me if I'm wrong about this or this, if I'm making shit up. Like, there's a way that he defers where he's still involved in controlling the game. You don't see it usually in crunch time like we're talking about, but there's a way that he's like not trying to be the primary scorer or like not have the whole, like, ball, the ball have, have to have to run through him, you know.

Mike Marcangelo: There's times where I'm like, you're in control of the game, this is good. I would love if he would, everything he has to do is off the dribble. It, like, he will not do something not off the dribble in a, in a scoring sense. Like, if he's gonna try to score, it has to, has to, has to be off the dribble because he's super fucking dominant and long off the dribble.

Mike Marcangelo: I get it. It works. Like, it, he does create space. But man, you, can you, can you? Move off the ball, and can you shoot when you, when, can you catch and shoot? Can you learn how to catch and shoot? Because it would be really fuckin helpful. If the team, in general, if the team in general, other than Derek White, could learn how to catch and shoot, did you see, did you see, uh, Holiday doing it?

Mike Marcangelo: And how helpful it was? Did you just rise up sometimes when you get an open shot, like, In the mid range, like we just, when we operate in that sweet spot in the mid range, it's so nice. Like we really can score at such a high level in there, but they just fall in love with this perimeter, you know, drive and dish and, and make the extra pass and, and do it, do an up fake and then take a sidestep and then shoot.

Mike Marcangelo: And if you can get into that rhythm, it's great. And you can obviously score to high volumes, but we need to be able to make the adjustment and Tatum has to leave that, that charge. But I do, I do want to, I do want to transition into Brown, but yeah, go ahead. 

Dave Clarke: Can I ask you a question? I, I, I want to talk to you about this and I made a point to just, just stare at it all fucking game, uh, last night.

Dave Clarke: Does, does their lack of off the ball screens on offense piss you off?

Mike Marcangelo: I think because every team seems to be allowed to set moving screens now. Like, they're just not really calling them. I think it would really behoove us to set some. Yeah. But I think that they're very, like, contact conscious. They're, they're really trying to be a finesse team. They're always trying to be a finesse team under Joe Mizzoula, and I think these players, and I include Jaylen Brown in this, I think these players are like, yeah, obviously if we're just like a finesse team, it's just like so much better because we're not getting like pounded and fucking tired and like hurt.

Mike Marcangelo: But Ime, I mean, I really lament that guy's firing because we used to set high screens off the dribble when he was there. We used to fight around, well, actually we're fighting around screens a lot better defensively this season, I will say that. I don't want to take, I don't want to take that. I mean, I mean, primarily 

Dave Clarke: on offense.

Dave Clarke: What I noticed is, I always go back to, every big shot that I remember Ray Allen hitting in the playoffs, you know, or his entire time here, was around the screen. 

Mike Marcangelo: Because Kevin Garnett set a borderline illegal screen every single time he was on the outlook. Oh, I was there. I remember. Kevin Garnett would just be like, hi, and whoever ran to him would be like, ugh, fuck.

Mike Marcangelo: Like he would just get there, because he could just slide that distance too, you know. Yeah. Yeah. And they ran that play, like, mercilessly, that team, where Pierce would just run it off the iso, and he would come in, and he would either, like, get his guy, and if he didn't have as much space off his dribble move, he would be like, oh, Ray's open in the corner.

Mike Marcangelo: And I don't know if you guys remember, but Ray Allen alone in a corner, it was one of the most dangerous men on planet Earth at a, at a given time. He was an absolute fucking sniper. So, I don't know if we have a guy like that, but like, man, we have so many good shooters, like, you would think, I agree with you, you would think we would just be like, yo, can somebody just, like, fucking set me a pick?

Mike Marcangelo: Like, off the ball. And a pick not involving, uh, anyone on the ball. You know, just guys moving around. Just, just move around, guys. It's really not that hard, but there's a lot of like, I'll watch you for a few seconds while you do something, then you watch me. Also, Tatum's back in this fucking habit. He's sister act fucking two.

Mike Marcangelo: He's back in this habit of waiting until seven seconds are on the shot clock before he starts to make a move. And I'm like, bro, like, what is that? Like, universally, we agreed on nine. And like, they obviously make a difference. And there's a serious problem with the ability to not to count to 10 in your head on this team.

Mike Marcangelo: There's a real problem with not being able to count to 10 in your head. It's really like, there would be a day if I was Joe Mizzoula, he'd have a better fashion sense first of all. But second of all, there'd be a day where I would just be like, all right, everybody close your eyes. We're going to count to 10 for an hour.

Mike Marcangelo: And everybody would just do it for an hour and then for the rest of the time we were gonna practice we would take free throws and then we would go home and then the next day we would do the same exact fucking thing and then I think they'd get it. The countin to ten thing, and the fuckin hittin the free throws thing, and then, here we are.

Mike Marcangelo: You know, like, now we're actually doin it. But, speakin of missin free throws, Jaylen Brown was our most important player yesterday. I think we all sort of agreed with, with that. His role players that stepped up were the Jrue Hollidays of the world, because I think we were waitin for a game like Ray, Ray said, I think specifically.

Mike Marcangelo: Shoutout Ray. That we were waiting for a Jrue Holiday game like that. I think we can, we can agree on that. I was not with the Celtics fans that were anti Jrue Holiday in the regular season because just, they were just looking at his box score, but he's doing a lot less off the ball in the playoffs so far than he normally does and it has been annoying.

Mike Marcangelo: He finally kind of woke up and arrived yesterday, so we'll come on to talk about him. But, a lot of it, a lot of it yesterday was Jaylen just getting it going. He really was just having a vintage Jaylen Brown game. He was hitting the shots he needed to hit, he was driving in, he was, he was making good decisions when Tatum wasn't and yeah.

Mike Marcangelo: They both got their points. Like, that's not the point of this conversation. Like, it's, it would be a very short podcast if it was like, Jayson Tatum had 35 points and, uh, nine rebounds. You know, it's like But I think it's about how you get the 

Dave Clarke: points. 

Mike Marcangelo: It's about how you get the points. And I think I really enjoyed, that's exactly my point.

Mike Marcangelo: My thank you for being able to read my mind at this point in our podcasting lives. Jaylen Brown's points, I liked all of them. Almost every single one, uh, that went, that went through the hoop. I was like, yes, Yes, that's how we should be scoring. Yes, that's what I want this to look like. Yes, that was a smart shot.

Mike Marcangelo: This team often has too many, yeah, it went in, but I was like, no, right before they, it went in. Sometimes it does, like, I'm often have pie in my face when I'm watching a basketball game. I go like, not that fucking shot. And then it goes in, but I'm still right. Do you get what I'm saying? Like, it's still a bad shot.

Mike Marcangelo: A bad shot's a bad shot, whether you get the points or not, in my opinion. Jaylen Brown didn't have a lot of those. Really good decision making yesterday. What'd you think of his game? 

Dave Clarke: Yeah, I thought that, you know, His efficiency was the thing that stood out to me the most, right, is that the, and, and I'll talk about the shots I really love, but the fact that he went 9 of 15, what, 20, 27 points, in, in 34 minutes, that was super efficient, it's almost like he tried to control the game without putting up the most shots, and I don't, I talked about, I never, I don't want to see Tatum's fadeaways anymore, but you give me Jaylen Brown's mid range turnaround fadeaway every fucking time, like, injected into my veins.

Dave Clarke: Because he hits every 

Mike Marcangelo: Yeah, he's just playing super consistently as well. I mean, even the, the game on the 9th against the Cavs, uh, the game we lost, 0 for 6 from 3. Sure. Not great. We, we don't love that. Then he goes on to go 2 for 3 and 2 for 3, twice in a row, 9 rebounds, 8 rebounds, 28 points, 27 points, in even less minutes, like you just pointed out, so an even higher efficiency game on the second one.

Mike Marcangelo: These are the Jaylen Brown games we need. These are the Jaylen Brown games we need. 0 for 6 from 3? No Celtics should be posting that stat line. And I include Tatum in that. It's like, if it's, that was what happened in both game twos that we lost. It's like, oh, it's not going down from 3? Hmm. Okay. I think we should go for plan B.

Mike Marcangelo: What's plan B, coach? Panic. Panic. And don't do anything to amend, uh, the game plan or, or, or whatever. Just everyone freak out. Everyone freak out. Shoot on the wrong net. Uh, don't put your shorts on before you go on the court. Just look, just absolutely bamboozled. Like you've never, like, gone through a cold streak in your entire lives.

Dave Clarke: They do that really well, by the way. They freak the fuck out really well. They absolutely do. That's why I don't want to play 

Mike Marcangelo: the Nuts. 

Dave Clarke: I thought and also, like, he had, I think he had, what, four or five turnovers? And I want to, I want to make sure I bring this up because those five turnovers in last night's game, They just felt so much better than every turnover he had in that series against the Warriors, you know, like, it, it, it felt like, that they just wanted to see Pritchard.

Dave Clarke: The one that got him made fun of for like the rest of his career. By me, yeah, exactly. Or by everybody. But yeah, by you. Like, he'll always be, he'll always speak for me. I started calling him Stanley. Yeah. Um, but, he, I just, I love his mid range game. I, and I, and I love the way in which he attacks the, uh, he attacks the hoop.

Dave Clarke: And I just. You know, Cleveland's going on, what, a 13 2 run in the fourth quarter? And who hits that three? It's Jaylen. 

Mike Marcangelo: Yeah. He is a good, he is a good, why don't you all shut the fuck up guy, too. I really like that about this game. Like, he's a really good, like, Oh, you know what you guys can do, actually, is you can shut the fuck up.

Mike Marcangelo: Watch this. He really is a good responder. He's a good counter puncher. Um, which, which I would lean into a little bit more. Like, I think that's like, I think that's, We inevitably are going to talk about Joe Mizzoula, and I've been trying to hold off on the guy, honestly, for the, the, the, this run so far. But he's pissing me off again.

Mike Marcangelo: Like, he's officially pissing me off again, because he still hasn't called timeouts at the right time, blah biddy blah, we all know all that shit, like, it's bad. But I think at this point in the Celtics, we should be reading them like a novel. You know, we, we should be looking at them like there's depth to the characters, there's things we should be leaning into, like, when you hear stories about, like, Pat Riley coaching the Lakers, and, like, he, you know, he, he had an interesting He made an interesting point to Magic Johnson about how he facilitates on the floor and made Magic look at the game in a little bit more of a three dimensional way.

Mike Marcangelo: And Magic then credits him for changing his perspective on things. We need those things to be happening to the Celtics right now. Not like, yeah, I mean, we ran the play where we, we saw they're in a zone, so we decided we were going to just try to slash through the zone and like drag players out. It's like, no, we all know all that stuff already.

Mike Marcangelo: These are, these are very proficient, very, very intelligent basketball players. We now need men to meet the moment.

Mike Marcangelo: And, and, that's gonna be why we come up short, if there's a reason at all, because we know we have all the talent in the world. And I don't know if Joe Mizzoula is gonna meet the moment, because if he doesn't, then the team won't. And I think Ime Udoka was a man who met every moment, even ones he wasn't invited to.

Mike Marcangelo: And I think, you know, and I, but I think that really benefited our team because I just don't think he was afraid. I, I don't think that, that Ime Udoka was afraid of anything. I don't think, and I think the great coaches that I've seen in my lifetime, I mean, I'm coming up to a very maudlin summer because the guy who's been the coach of, of Liverpool Football Club for the past decade ish, uh, is leaving.

Mike Marcangelo: And it's, you know, it's very heartbreaking for me, but he was amazing and he accomplished so much for this team and it was because he was fearless. It's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, Coaching quality that I see shared throughout every great coach I've ever seen. They take the responsibility when the team's not doing well, and they give the credit when it is.

Mike Marcangelo: They, their ego is, exists, but it exists sort of in the right directions. And they're not afraid. They're not afraid to lose. Because you have to be not afraid to lose if you want to really win some shit. You have to go out there and you have to like be the man in the arena. And I know these all sound like platitudes, but I think this is what sports is all about.

Mike Marcangelo: And watching your team achieve these moments of greatness is why we are all in this business and why we watch them lose season in season out just for that one little sniff of something like greatness, right? And We're here. All the parts are assembled. The Avengers have been assembled. There's no excuses anymore.

Mike Marcangelo: And I just, I just think Ime Udoka was fucking fearless, I guess is my point. And I, and I'm worried that Joe Mazzuola is a little afraid. And I can tell you, I don't get 

Dave Clarke: that from him. 

Mike Marcangelo: No, you didn't think last year he was like chewing his, the inside of his fucking cheeks off like a psychopath? Because it's anxiety ridden, I think.

Dave Clarke: Yeah, but I think, I actually think Joe doesn't fear. Losing? I, I, I don't think, uh, I don't think he's like, I wish he'd be more 

Mike Marcangelo: afraid of losing, to be honest. 

Dave Clarke: Yes, I, I, I do, because I, I think that he thinks of every game as an experience, right, that we can learn from. And that's the thing that pisses me off most about him.

Dave Clarke: But you hate him 

Mike Marcangelo: because he's a stupid hippie. 

Dave Clarke: Well, I didn't say that, but. I get it. I hate when he's like, well, we just, no, uh, hey, Joe, why did you just lose, uh, game seven, uh, by, by 30 points? Well, we got to play with more intentionality. Fuck that. Tell me what you learned from this game and why you think it will never happen again based on things that you're going to do, right?

Mike Marcangelo: You're going to say the same shit. Oh, you know, we really forgot last game that we have to sort of lead with our defense and our defense unlocks everything else. It's like, really? Because you seem to be forgetting that once every three games. Just play defense every time. You have to. It's your job. Like, I don't 

Dave Clarke: understand.

Dave Clarke: It's like what you're paid to do. I just, I just think he's like, his mantra is like, just be an elephant, man. Like, just forget everything bad. Don't hold on to it. And then, or be a goldfish. That's a goldfish. That's a goldfish. Elephant, fucker, remember everything. This is probably his problem. He's probably, he's like, forget everything.

Dave Clarke: Be an elephant. God damn it, I can't forget anything. My bad. Be a goldfish, yo. But I feel like every game that he loses, They talk about it, gotta be more intentional, gotta have respect, gotta, you know, be communicative, and then like five games fucking later, it's the same thing to your point, and it's the same goddamn answers.

Dave Clarke: I don't think he fears losing, I just don't know if he incorporates enough changes throughout the course of the game to win a situation where he is constantly lost. Do you know what I mean? Like we, we always see, like you and I can, actually I think the Celtics fan can tell, in the third quarter, when you're up, when the Celtics are up by four, you can just tell when we're gonna lose a game.

Dave Clarke: You just know it. The air gets sucked out of the room, and if we know it, you've got to believe in it. 

Mike Marcangelo: They've decided that we're going to lose. The team is like, oh, fuck, you know? 

Dave Clarke: Yeah, and like, if we can identify that, you'd love to think that so could he. And time in and time out, he doesn't do anything to change it.

Dave Clarke: Nothing. I see what you did there with the time 

Mike Marcangelo: out. Yeah, I was just for you. Time out, Joe. Did you like my meet the moment speech? Yeah, of course. I think that that's what we're all really deeply afraid of. Is that, is that we, we have all the pieces, but we don't have, like, the soul 

Dave Clarke: just don't, I don't, I don't, I don't wanna go down this road.

Dave Clarke: This is gonna open up a whole nother podcast, but I just don't know if Tatum's the piece.

Dave Clarke: But I really want him to be, and I want him, I want him to want to be the piece, right. Not assume that he is, but want to be it. 

Mike Marcangelo: It's just like, I'm gonna be so fed up if they, if they, I'm gonna be so fucking fed up, dude, that Jalen Brown contract. The Jrue Holliday contract's not gonna age well. Or Zynga's contract.

Mike Marcangelo: Or Zynga's contract, like what, I don't, I don't love it. I don't love it. I really don't. I should've traded Tatum when I said. Like 

Dave Clarke: four years ago. I mean, you told Abby to do it. 

Mike Marcangelo: Yeah. Yeah, well, look at us now. We're winning a series in the second round of the Eastern Conference playoffs and we're, we're all really upset about it apparently.

Mike Marcangelo: We're all, we're all miserable because yeah, it's, it's, it's like. Tatum comes out in that post game press, he's like, oh yeah, I guess we're just supposed to win every game. It's like, yeah. Against these teams, yeah. Because when you don't, it makes us worried that you're soft in the middle. Like, that's just because you have been before.

Mike Marcangelo: That's why. And I just, I hope that like, because you know the way when the Warriors just sort of snatched their soul? Like they just like, were like, let's look each other in the eye for a second and see who blinks first. And the Celtics just blinked so hard, like immediately. That's how they won that series.

Mike Marcangelo: I, like you remember, it was devastating. They were like, let's just go right here. And the Celtics could have been like, no, no, we don't need to go right here. We're just going to fucking score way more bats than you. We're so much more athletic. We can like run around. Like you're crazy. I'm not going to do that with you.

Mike Marcangelo: Why would we fight your fight? Like you said, let's play their game. But they didn't do that. They just, they just crumpled. They got their head shrunk. And that was it. And I'm just worried. I think we all should be. Let's, let's take some positives though. I think all of our role players played really well.

Mike Marcangelo: I'm kind of coming around on Payton Pritchard a little bit. Although I think that there's another world where, like, we're a few games into, like, the New York series and, like, he just gets cooked four times and I'm like, don't ever put him on the court again. 

Dave Clarke: I mean, I never thought until the day that you'd be like, maybe we should have Cornette on the court more than Al Hartford.

Mike Marcangelo: Hey, but shouldn't we obviously, like, isn't Alan Wurfurt's, I mean, it's not an ideal situation. I'm not saying, like, this is the greatest situation in the world, but Cornets? Al Horford's minutes are far more meaningful when he's rested. Like, he just needs to not play that many minutes because he becomes an obvious liability when he's overexerted and that's not his fault.

Mike Marcangelo: I'm not shitting on Al Horford. I love Al Horford. I'm not, like, don't come for me Celtics Twitter. I'm shitting on Joe Mizzoula. Like, don't play him that many minutes and honestly, Cornette against the Cavs, it's fine. Like, it's fine. Just accept the reality of the situation here. It's like, all right, Porzingis is hurt, but it's fine.

Mike Marcangelo: We're playing the Cavs. Just play Cornette, like, 17, 17 minutes going into the fourth, as opposed to Al at 9 or 10 going into the fourth, and then Al can play 10 minutes. You know, and then you're good. You're fine. You know, or like, you don't have to have everybody in the same rotation plan. Well, he's a starter, so he's got to play at least four.

Mike Marcangelo: It doesn't matter. Just get him in there situationally when you fucking need him, dude. It's not that, it's not that hard. I would run a one through five with Pritchard at the one and Tatum at the five at times against the Cavs. No problem. No problem. I'd be like, everybody just space the floor. Just run him.

Mike Marcangelo: Just run him for a little bit. Donovan Mitchell's not out there. Let's go one through five. Tatum at the five. Pritchard at the one, and let's just see what they do. He never throws looks at things, Missoula. He never throws looks. My favorite moment, it was just the stupidest fucking moment, it just summed the Celtics team up so much.

Mike Marcangelo: The commentator, I forget who was commentating on the game, goes like, Pritchard, on the ball, alright, last play of this quarter. I think it was the end, I think it was the end of the first. And he's like, he's like, looks over to the bench, gets the play call from Missoula. And says, gets the play call from Missoula, and then Payton Pritchard proceeds to just shoot 

Dave Clarke: from the logo, and make it, don't get me wrong, and make it, but I'm like, I'm sorry, was the play from Missoula, XI 86 1, oh nice, shoots from the logo, like that's not in the playbook, surely, like, this is just, there's just no way, right, gets the play from Missoula, Joe's like, suck your own dick on the court, like, what, it's the stupidest shit that I've ever, it's like, the fact that the commentator said it too, I was like, was that, did that happen, was the commentator wrong, or is Joe Mazzulla just like, and then they fucking, he just shoots from the fucking logo, you know, I'm like, get out of here with this, gets the 

Mike Marcangelo: play call, I wouldn't be so fucking surprised if that was the play call is what I'm saying, I wouldn't be surprised.

Dave Clarke: I mean, that just didn't. age well at all for Missoula because I actually watched that clip like right before we started recording it was like Pritchard there's 10 seconds left looks over the bench gets a call from Missoula and like what did Missoula do just just go And so, and so, are we supposed to be playing a basketball game?

Dave Clarke: Dribble the ball a little bit, then step back three from the fucking half court and he hit it. 

Mike Marcangelo: Oh, he gave me the dribble the ball a little bit, then step back three from the half court signal. Oh, nice play call, coach. If only you could just be like, 

Dave Clarke: drain it from there. And it worked every time. Wow, that's an unstoppable play you've drawn off Coach Mazzullo.

Dave Clarke: It's almost worse that it went in because now, like, if he did wave off a call from Mazzullo, he's like, I don't know. I did this before. Fucking nailed it. I'll do it again. It's like, and I want to know what the play was. I want to know what it was. He 

Mike Marcangelo: had to have waved it off. He had to have. And like, that's, if Payton Pritchard's like, Shut up, Joe.

Mike Marcangelo: You're in a bad, you're in a bad fucking, you're in a bad place, dude. I'd wave off. I just want to point out 

Dave Clarke: that this last, like, two minute. Segment. Happened. Right after you said, now onto some positives. 

Mike Marcangelo: No, what I meant to say was it makes me feel better to shit on Joe Mizzoula than it makes me feel to shit on any of the players because the players are on way bigger contracts.

Mike Marcangelo: We can just fire Joe Mizzoula. It's like really not that big of a deal. Probably should have done it last year, to be honest. I really want to know what E Mate did. 

Dave Clarke: You mean who? 

Mike Marcangelo: Yeah, I want to know who E Mate did. And honestly, like, who doesn't love the Celtics enough to have just taken one for the team, within that organization, you know, who doesn't love the team enough to have just taken one for the team and be like, I know you've fucked my wife, but like, man, they're playing some sound defense out there.

Mike Marcangelo: So, let's just let Ime stay. You know, come on, man. Be a team player. 

Dave Clarke: Maybe, maybe Nia Long, maybe she probably had the biggest problem. 

Mike Marcangelo: She doesn't work for the fucking Celtics. I don't give a shit what she does. She's getting her 

Dave Clarke: money. She's his wife or partner. So maybe she kind of sounded the alarms. That ain't none of my business.

Dave Clarke: Okay, just get him out there. Just get him out there to coach the team. Who cares? Alright. I do think that Missoula has improved in some areas, but in the big areas that we've been 

Mike Marcangelo: The only place to go is up. So, I agree wholeheartedly that he's improved in some areas. Great. Okay. The fact that he's not just sitting on the sideline playing with his own poop is a fucking miracle.

Mike Marcangelo: Honestly. Just give him some blocks to play with somewhere else, far away from the TD Garden. If he can find his way out. We're gonna be in trouble 

Dave Clarke: next year with Charles Lee leaving and probably Sam Casale going to coach LeBron. 

Mike Marcangelo: Yeah, awesome. I can't, I can't believe Joe Mizzoula can find where he parked his car in the morning.

Mike Marcangelo: That's a, that's a huge positive for me. Uh, Derek White went fucking missing, so I'm just gonna not move on to him because that's not very positive. Is Porzingis coming back? Ever? 

Dave Clarke: I don't think you need him in this series, right? 

Mike Marcangelo: No, but like, what's the timeline? I'm gonna look it up. I'm, I'm kind of It was, 

Dave Clarke: it was supposed to be two to three weeks.

Mike Marcangelo: Yeah, well, we don't want him to come back too soon, 

Dave Clarke: like obviously. Theoretically, well, but here's the thing, uh, you, you, You're going to need a rested and healthy ish Horford to compete with anyone that comes out of the West. So, like, and you're going to need to, poor thing, is to get some actual game reps in.

Dave Clarke: So if we could shoot for, like, game three of the next round, you know, if, so, so, we gotta go. Limited 

Mike Marcangelo: minutes. If we were in a great spot where we were up 3 0, we were cruising to a 3 0, uh, Eastern Conference Finals, and, cause this team is not, like, I think this is one of the more obvious, like Go in hot or go in rested teams, like go in rested is the choice for this Celtics team every single time.

Mike Marcangelo: It's like, just cool them down. We'll get it going again. Like, we're not, we don't need them on big hot runs. Nobody needs to be playing a lot of games. Like, Tom Thibodeau would break this team in one day. Like, I feel like, I feel like I'm not coming to work tomorrow, Tibbs, just so you know, I'm taking the fucking day off because this is too much.

Mike Marcangelo: Can you tell I think they're soft? What would you say is your biggest positive other than Jaylen Brown from, uh, from, uh, Yesterday's game, and why was it Jrue Holiday? 

Dave Clarke: Yeah, I mean, it's fucking Jrue Holiday. Everything, everything he did in the stats, but then also like what you said that won't show up in the stat line, like, his off the ball defense and playmaking ability was Was the reason why, like, we all were like, holy shit, we had, we got him in the offseason.

Dave Clarke: I think we're, we're still in, in line for, like, to have a Jrue Holiday game. That kind of was the Jrue game, don't you think? I mean, I know that Jaylen Brown eventually took over, but I feel like he really did set the tone, and I really appreciated that from him. He set the tone really early, and I think it was like, I kind of think that the Cavs were, They stuck around and everything, but like, he was a big part of the reason why we didn't let it slip like we normally would.

Mike Marcangelo: Like, because I just think he was just like, More vocal than usual. He was playmaking. Like you said, he was playing really hard defense. Like, he was just doing everything that his teammates needed him to do. So like you said, he wasn't gonna show up necessarily huge on the box score, but his box score looks efficient as fuck.

Mike Marcangelo: I'll say that. The efficiency from Jrue Holliday has always been what I liked about him. He takes smart shots, he makes smart calls, and we needed him to step up. We clearly needed him to step up because we needed to win these games because It's really embarrassing when we lose to teams without their best player.

Mike Marcangelo: So, that's the main reason. I don't think the series would have been dead or anything, but I would have been so pissed. I'm already pissed and we won. Every Celtics fan I know is mad at them, and we're winning on most of our games. 

Dave Clarke: This team's 7 2, and we're all, we all, cause we just see it, we see it. We see it, they refuse to admit it, to your point, they are just softer than baby shit.

Dave Clarke: They just can't do it, but they might. 

Mike Marcangelo: I'm, I want to be shut up by them. I want, I want to come on and be like, everything we said was wrong. Of course it was wrong. Look how good they are. But that's not going to happen until the finals. Like, I'm gonna spend the whole fucking Eastern Conference playoffs being like, Yeah, well, they should've won that fucking game, but they didn't do it the way I like it.

Mike Marcangelo: Right. Yep. Alright. Well, thankfully, it's not really my problem anymore, Mike, because I am a Minnesota Timberwolves fan. So, for myself, DK Sizzle, and the always bright, always positive, Mike Marcangelo. Uh, we gotta get me, you, and Ray on one because honestly, me and you are just absolutely bucolic. Like, we're both just like so fed up with this fucking team that like we need Ray, Ray, Ray of sunshine.

Mike Marcangelo: Like, to just come in and be like, come on guys! Which is definitely a flip from how it used to be, so. Uh, I was wrong before. When I was really positive about them, so I'm hoping I'm wrong now as I'm really negative about them, and it's not just that the, uh, the veil has been lifted from my eyes, and I see the world as it is now.

Mike Marcangelo: I'm a cynical old man. I was an optimistic young man before, but this team has aged me, Michael. So, for myself, DK, so as well for, uh, Mike Marcangelo, thank you so much for potting it up with me about our Boston Celtics. We'll see you after Game 5.