Brian Flores lawsuit against the NFL, Tom Brady retires, AFC/NFC Championship recap, Celtics Trade Deadline Moves

Craig D'Alessandro: 0:41

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Rayshawn Buchanan: 1:23

Hello welcome into missing a point I am Hollywood ray with the man the myth the legend my guy DK sizzle, and our executive producer Craig D'Alessandro. Yo How are we doing tonight? Man?

Dave Clarke: 1:35

Awesome, dude. I'm so excited to finally chop it up with you on the pot. I feel like we've been trying to get a ray and Dave Show together for the entirety of the two man format and now we're here.

Rayshawn Buchanan: 1:46

Yeah, cuz I think the last time we did it we had we had we had a three three guys so yeah, so that's great. It may just happen. You know, we're gonna do some best.

Dave Clarke: 1:54

Finally, the Celtics are talking about a bowl, right? Yeah, yeah. There was a while there. I was just like, I'm not doing it. I'm not doing it. It's gonna hurt my feelings,

Rayshawn Buchanan: 2:04

too. I was watching you already know. Listen, we were out after that Chicago Bulls game. I was like, fuck it. But

Dave Clarke: 2:09

yeah, I would turn on the games. And I would I would just go through that like product that you know that slow death over the course like the first quarter second quarter. And like, it wasn't even like we're like, Yeah, we were blown for the quarter leads. But it wasn't even like it wasn't even like we ever really look like we did it the entire time during those like turgid games, and we couldn't be any offense going in the shooting was terrible. Sorry, I jumped the gun. There we started with the Celtics. It's just hurtful. It's just hurtful. They're the way they were playing was hurtful.

Rayshawn Buchanan: 2:41

Yeah, what? No. Well, that's it the way you've done this before, because I still go sideways. So for one thing that's been hurtful to another thing has been hurtful. So Brian Flores man, he served as the coach down in Miami last few seasons, he recently was releaved duties, aka getting fired down in Miami after going 25 and 24. He is now currently suing the NFL for discrimination in the hiring process. So, um, you know, just want to know your thoughts, Dave. So, you know, what, what ripple effect do you think this will have? Um, you know, after all defamation comes out,

Dave Clarke: 3:16

you know, someone said to me a few days ago, it's like, so it was like, oh, Colin Kaepernick 2.0. Somebody made that point. I was like, I don't know, feels different. feels super different. I feel like, while they're both sort of a they were protesting different things, right. Like, they were kind of taking a stand against different things. Colin Kaepernick was taking a stand against, like systemic racism in America as a whole and police brutality. Like in general, like specifically. And Brian Flores I was saying, like, there's hiring practices in the NFL, for my job, that are definitely skewed white or outright racist. And I think if anybody doesn't think that's the case, I could probably pretty quickly point to their politics on other things like life saving vaccines and the Confederate flag and things like that. It I mean, you know, at this point, it's, it's, it's a joke, you know, of course, it's true. Like, why don't you just look at it? And just try? I mean, you know, why? Because the NFL is made up of a bunch of the owners who are just a bunch of fucking little boys basically, that have no intention of addressing things that don't outright benefit them. I don't know if they're racist, even as much as just like, completely self interested. Or maybe they're racist, but either way, yeah, of course, he's right. Of course, he's correct. You see it happen all the time. And I think this, I think he was smart to be the one to take stand, to be honest with you, because I think every sports fan would agree that when we were talking about the coaching landscape, and who was available, he was the blue chip stop. He was the guy, nobody understood why the Miami Dolphons fired him in the first place. And every team that needed a coach wanted him I really felt that way. As far as like, as far as fan, the fan side of things goes, I would love to have him in Chicago. Chicago is a good example. You know, the guy we hired, we basically hired on the philosophy of bringing in to make the defense a solid unit again, and he's going to bring in, you know, and he's gonna foster team spirit. He's gonna bring in an offensive coordinator that can take care of Justin Fields, you would have gotten out of Flores and to me Flores is already a proven commodity. So I wonder, you know, I wonder why we didn't just go and get him. Yeah, I mean, I, you and I have talked about it in the past like the treatment of certain coaches like Lovie Smith, for example, in Chicago, I think sort of got the same rub. You know, you take a team 15 and one and bring him to the bring him through Green Bay. And take him to the Super Bowl and through Drew Brees and take him to the Super Bowl. Yeah to lose but like, come on, they didn't give them enough time again after that and I think I think because reasons. You know, like I just think like a Jim Harbaugh or John Harbaugh would get electro would have gotten like a couple extra years, you know, and I think we know why. So yeah, he's I think he's right. But I guess it's it's not what you know, it's what you can prove. So I I'm excited to see the progress of his lawsuit. I hope this doesn't mean what it meant for Colin Kaepernick . Which means no one's gonna touch him with a 10 foot pole now like, I don't see why. I don't see why he he can't have a job still. I mean, I kind of do, I guess, I guess I see the conflict of interest. But do you think anyone's gonna hire him? Do you think that's gonna happen?

Rayshawn Buchanan: 6:34

I mean, I would hope so. I think now, you know, people are realizing, but I guess if he was still if he was speaking about social injustice, as well, I think they probably would have shied away from it. Because no one wants to search, you know, deal with that distraction, as I put that in air quotes. Um, but they'd be dumb right now not to at least look at him now. Does he now to know that they're under you know, they're under the fire. They're under the light. So, um, listen, the man made Tua Tagovailoa relevance, that alone she gets released three or four years somewhere else. Like, you know, and I don't mean to me lightly because it's a it's a messed up situation, but it's just like, Yo, like, you know, let me smell some some bugs and Caudwell. Um, you know, enemy was, you know, been a commodity last few years, but for whatever reason, hasn't gotten that look, lovely phrase to the world. I did do it to Jackson,

Dave Clarke: 7:27

Josh McDaniels the second he wants to go and try it again. He gets to walk right in. Yeah,

Rayshawn Buchanan: 7:32

yeah. After playing Indianapolis. I wasn't, I'm happy about that. So I'm happy about him leaving. So that's that's just a quick aside, but, um, but yes, he gets opportunity as opportunity. He would look like him. To to to get opportunity, I thought, but certainly so. Um, yeah, I mean, I think it'll be a while before he gets a another job, unfortunately. But that's what happens whenever you shake the system. And that's what he tried to do was try to take the system. Um, although there's gonna be folks that agree with them silently, cuz no one's gonna say out loud.

Dave Clarke: 8:00

They were like, anonymously on in the comments section. You know? Oh, it's

Rayshawn Buchanan: 8:04

like call 55501 to five. Is it? Like what like, just say, say it was? It's okay.

Dave Clarke: 8:10

Yeah, say it with your fucking chest. Exactly. We want to hear it.

Rayshawn Buchanan: 8:14

Yeah, don't but Right. Right. Don't be on that bullshit. Just just say what's on your mind. But yeah, I'm actually I'm, I'm surprised but not surprised. They're more like players and other coaches have not said much. I'm actually annoyed by it. Honestly. Like, I feel like, you know, if you, you know, NFL is the number one brand like it is. So, um, it's not like people are gonna firmly stop watching just because you say, Hey, we we stand with Brian Flores. So all you have to say today, like get literally standing with them. Because you're gonna you're gonna go back home, you're gonna you're gonna lay here king size bed, you're gonna work out whatever do today. But all you have to write, I stand with Brian Flores. That's all you have to do. If you have the oh my gosh, they're standing together. They're in Unity. It's like, you know, no one can divide them. It's like, that's all that's all you have to do. But

Dave Clarke: 9:05

the numbers there and it's it's difficult to it there's it's difficult to kind of reason with it from this side, because you want them to do the brave thing. There's it's indicative, I think of the kind of organization The NFL has to work for behind the scenes, because I think the fact that so few people over the years not even just to deal with this situation of it's so scared to bite the hand that feeds them, because I think they do sort of respond to the brutally and I think I think their statement is a great is a great example that because their statement was like, their statement is essentially denying the existence of any level of systemic racist hiring practices in their organization, which I don't think is true of any organization of the size and scope of the NFL, you know, nevermind one smaller, so I just feel like if I was in the room, just from a PR standpoint, I would love something like, Hey, if if he feels this way, like this would be a great opportunity for us to like, look at it, look at it as a whole. We'll let an individual team speak for themselves on their hiring practices, but like, the NFL is with you. You know, we're not mad at you for this. Don't Don't worry about it. We're just gonna take a look at it and have conversations about it. But it was very like we can we can like I don't know exactly the wording but it was like we completely refute any allegations of racism.

Rayshawn Buchanan: 10:26

I mean, look at what John Elway said John Elway was like look Fuck y'all. I'm not in this. It's not me. You're right. You're not that again to Denver's Right. Right. The Denver's like he's like look, I'm not involved in this shit. Don't quote go do not put Yeah. In this ad all listen, we look Hey, I don't I don't know. I forgot John Oh sound I could just hear him saying like, hey, like, you know, we gave the guy a fair shake. You know, we did promise we get we gave the guy you know, we looked at him long and hard pause, you know, but yeah, give him a little look back at 2019 Well really did you? Because you chose the guy you chose match Joseph over over Brian Flores? Really? Yeah, that's awesome. Really, like I said, once again, we see we did in Miami. So I'll be just the coordinator over over anointment. So, I mean, you say that you gave him that that opportunity. And as you you know, you, you know, you strongly defended him. But, um, as someone who looks like Brian Flores, I cannot tell you how many times I've been told you were showing the Center for a role. No, um, and it's just like, it's unbelievable. And even even, I'll keep it to this even certain positions within the radio field. Um, oh, you know, you said it for this. We thought about this. Well, guess what? I got lower sitting now. They they get to the other four. Yeah, we got to own sit down. So yeah, we're everywhere. But you know, I, I just had to put that out there. But yeah. Well, I want to I want to get into the the Rooney rule, right? Because that, obviously, that that rule was tied to minority was supposed to be, you know, came from the owner of the Pittsburgh Steelers. So, um, I feel like I know the answers, but I just want outside actions. I want to see what your what were your stances? And, Craig, if you want to chime in, you can as well, um, you know, what, what amendment or, you know, doesn't amendment needs to be given, you know, for the Rooney Rule?

Dave Clarke: 12:24

Yeah, I mean, it, it sort of is a rule that has, it's a nice thought, but it's it doesn't actually pay any real, like, effect or solution to the issue, it seems? Because, I mean, are you just like bringing in a carousel of black coaches to meet a minimum? And you know, you're never gonna hire them? They're like, what's the point in the rule? You know? So from that front, I think, I think it's, it's difficult because it's sort of an insidious beast, because you can just kind of be like, No, we gave it to the best qualified person. And unless you're like, sitting down, and like comparing the two resumes, as I think is the case, in a lot of the people that didn't hire by Brian Flores, but hired somebody else, you know, it's not a matter of there's two equal candidates, and the job goes to the white person, you know, more often than not, it's the fact that in this situation as well, there are two unequal candidates, right. For us, it's like better. It's so like, I think, maybe, I mean, I, you know, this is a tough question. And I think it's like, maybe for greater minds than mine, and like legal experts, disorder philosophers to sort of tangle with as far as how to make things more equitable and fair in all workplaces. But, you know, for my two cents, I think, I think something in not necessarily punitive. But like, instead of a Rooney Rule, perhaps like a Rooney survey of like, your general hiring practices, and perhaps someone that's like, very good at being a statistician, and like compiling data, can say, like, well, this is how many times you interviewed, like an equal amount of white and black candidates for roles all through your organization, this is the amount of time you you hired white people. And this is how many instances their resumes were, you know, virtually identical. And maybe we could look at the end, this is just me throwing shit at the wall. But maybe we could look at the solid numbers in different organizations, because, you know, you could take a crack at it. Right off the bat, which ones you would guess, haha, you know, certain organizations and certain cities in certain states, I think, would probably fail that sort of grading system if we invented it, too. And maybe we just just Scarlet, letter them with it, you know, and not necessarily put anything punitive behind it, but just be like, yeah, we've labeled you as like a more racist organization, because of your, your hiring practices. And like, you're not doing great, but it's like a health score, you know, you can like work on it. And, and you can bring it up, but it's not necessarily, the way to get the score up isn't necessarily just like, hire more black people or hire more Hispanic people or hire more Asian people. It's a, it's like, how you how you enter into the idea of hiring and confronting the matter of race and inherent bias and how much you consider it and take it upon yourselves to be aware of it. And eventually, I think if everyone's doing that, because it is sort of us personal responsibility thing on behalf of these companies and people that run them. The more you do that, the more even the playing field is going to be, I think, which is I think the main goal, you know, everybody's just getting to the same shot as everybody else and I think A lot of people on the other side on the other side of this argument would cry out racism if you just like hire more black people. So I wonder if there's a way to, to just to think about it more three dimensionally, especially in the NFL, where so many people that are involved in the sport are, people have color, and they retire. And like, you know, you want to keep them around the sport, like, that's a way to do it. You know what I mean? It's just like, and how you treat your former players, and how you treat your former white players. And like, who's an ambassador for your team? And like, all these different things, you could take these into effect. Now, I'm not going to do it. I have neither the time, nor the expertise. But I think if somebody smart would do that, than that, you know, story of my life. I think if somebody smartly do that, that would be a great idea. But I think that's the only way to do it. You have to shift the paradigm a little bit to make people responsible for themselves. I don't think you can, you know, and everybody, every person in these roles sort of thinking, like, who am I doing that? Because I think a lot of people do do that. Right? Like they try to check their bias at the door, check their prejudices at the door. But you know, sometimes it comes into play in your brain, you're like, Oh, I think I'm doing that thing. And like, if you're at least thinking about it, and being aware of it, then maybe you can actually make a change in that situation. But yeah, I mean, I'm happy to have athletes come out and talk their politics and people involved in these organizations come and talk to politics. I don't need them to shut up and dribble funny. All the Shut up a dribble guys, though, markedly silence on Aaron Rodgers because he happens to share their politics. So I guess if you're only comfortable with the conversation, when your aside is getting to say something, then you might be a little bit worried about what the answer is on the other side. So yep. You know, I just think that's kind of an extension, what the NFL is doing the situation, I just think they're sort of being like, we're not talking about it, because we don't think it's a thing. And it's like talking about stealing way to fix it dummies. It's not, it's just gonna stay around, you know, I don't get it.

Rayshawn Buchanan: 17:39

Right. I mean, listen, I don't there's not much I need to add to that, like that. That was everything he does, because he said, What you just said, The how I'm going to end that. And then I'll ask the next question. One out of 32 is a problem like that, like, there's no, there's no, I didn't all the way

Dave Clarke: 17:56

right there. That creating system is no more complicated than that. Yeah. And it teaches us to have less than 5% like that. It's a joke. So great. It's not great, right? And, especially, like I said, considering the amount of people in and around the sport at the athletic level are people of color, specifically African Americans that, you know, they they make a large majority of the playing staff, but not a large majority of the coaching staffs and front offices. And, I mean, that's just it's just says it all right there. And like, if you read Jon Gruden fucking emails, it's this it's like maybe some people think some people think some

Rayshawn Buchanan: 18:33

weird thing was the was the meeting, which I knew it was coming at some point

Dave Clarke: 18:39

to say, Okay, I knew he was

Rayshawn Buchanan: 18:42

a minister and he was happy. And he was a big fruit.

Dave Clarke: 18:46

It's my all time greatest take. It couldn't have ended more spectacularly. I'd really good unless he walked out into the middle of that giant Stadium in Las Vegas and just poured gasoline on himself and just lit himself on fire. I don't see any way it couldn't be better for me. Not so great for the people. He was talking about the racist piece of shit, but like, whatever. At least he got fired. So

Rayshawn Buchanan: 19:08

yeah, no, yeah, yeah, that's right, exactly. But I just last thing I want to get on this before we move on. But I've got the Hugh Jackson salad on the first podcast with Ryan Clark. Um, I believe he talked about getting paid 100,000 for each loss. Um, and I'll get into that first before I don't about you. It's like, what what's it like? I've now listen to me quite a bit. If he was going to be 100,000 wage loss out there better. Has it been $1.6 million richer?

Dave Clarke: 19:41

Yeah. What point seven now? 1.7. Now, boy, suddenly. I've been begging you'd be like add games add games to the season? I'm pro adding games to the season.

Rayshawn Buchanan: 19:55

Exactly. Exactly. I need my money you know me so

Dave Clarke: 19:59

that I go to Detroit and lose. It's like the easiest thing you could ever do. It's easier than walking and chewing gum at the same time.

Rayshawn Buchanan: 20:05

Right? Exactly. I totally would have would have done that. Um, but you know, in the same breath, knowing knowing that black coaches don't get the same amount of chances it's then their criminal to have them you know, be basically sacrificial lambs for whatever season

Dave Clarke: 20:24

you're buying a mouse sheep basically right? You're buying them at a cheap because look at their record.

Rayshawn Buchanan: 20:28

Why exactly? Oh, yeah. So now so I mean, ready? Let's say we talked about Jim Caldwell a few shows ago, the man when 97 for a few years in a row and still got let go. So you can only imagine if someone's going one if the team you know two and 14 three At 13 and thinking they're going to get an actual chance. You know, I said Marvin Lewis and Mike Tomlin only two guys. I know they've got that's been around for a decade plus, and still had a fair shake. You know, I'm saying so not our shell, you know, obviously not you Jackson like it was terrible

Dave Clarke: 20:58

Mike sometimes seemingly at the right organization for that, like, you know, there I think if I was gonna, and I know I do pick up the Steelers in a lot of ways, but I do think the router ships like a little bit. Like if we did my magic grading system, I think they'd be doing pretty well in the in the, like hiring practices and like general sort of treatment of the situation. And they just they seem like good dudes. Like in general. And ladies, but, uh, I think in the media, you can still see what happens to Mike Tomlin, you know, so I don't know if he gets as much credit as like for his successes as like a coach that what didn't look like Mike Tomlin will give you different I mean, so, yeah, there's, there's a kind of, there's two sides to I mean, I'm critical of them, you know, a lot of the time and it's like, I wonder, you know, I wonder if that's my internal bias, just like being be more critical of them than I would like Bill Belichick. You know, I mean, I know they're not on the same level of coaching, but it's like, I just do see him get put through a different lens sometimes. And like, clearly that power struggle with Flores like, everything that went went on down there, like clearly that played a part in that too, right, don't you think?

Rayshawn Buchanan: 22:08

Oh, yeah, for sure.

Dave Clarke: 22:09

Like him getting fired in the first place? Yeah,

Rayshawn Buchanan: 22:13

no, for sure. Um, it is just super unfortunate. And I can't wait we got this far. I might just say everything's coming back to me at once. Um, that that damn text message? Yeah. What are we doing man? Like

Dave Clarke: 22:28

it's just an old guy. Not worry if you know the work of phone though. You

Rayshawn Buchanan: 22:31

know is he know he's been I get it like it's the cool thing to say all like, he doesn't know about snaps had no like, you got to know cool. Um, yeah, you got isn't buyers like That's wild to me.

Dave Clarke: 22:45

Your Give me your NFL coaches this like shitty Microsoft tablets. You know, you might have gotten like a branch. And one

Rayshawn Buchanan: 22:51

last year. Um, but listen, don't don't Don't tell me that he doesn't he didn't know what was going on. I just I can't give it that.

Dave Clarke: 23:00

Well, what do you think his intentions were? What do you think his intentions were by intentionally like letting the cat out of the bag like

Rayshawn Buchanan: 23:05

that? I don't, I don't know. I wish I knew. And so we'll never know cuz he's not going to say anything. But I just think to me, like, you just cannot make that type of mistake. And once again, what Reza once again, because I look like Brian was like, Yo, that Thanks, Bill. Like that, that she had difficult, wasn't it? I've been there. Where, you know, that's the extent where it's like, you're gonna get a job, but it doesn't happen like that. But it's like, you know, you think in someone's in your corner, you're gonna do you know, we're gonna help you out in some capacity. And then it's like, oh, it was kind of like a matter of factly on the wall, you know? Oh, yeah, I messed that one up. Taylor. My life is on a fucking lie, bro. Like, so I just this is not science. This is not a game. So, um, I just think for someone who was so diligent, and tries to make sure that he's always on top of everything. That was super killer. So I don't care that he's about to be 70 years old. And you know, hasn't? Maybe that's enough. I should tell us about that. Um, though, told me that he didn't he didn't know. And also, it could have been an honest mistake. I'd like say at this moment. I just don't buy that. I hope that he comes out at a press conference and tie and talks about that.

Dave Clarke: 24:17

Yeah, well, you know, it's very giving in those situations.

Rayshawn Buchanan: 24:20

I boy, it's out there. So it's not like it's already up there. So it's not like rifles gonna keep them so it's not a matter of well, let's just shoot it under the rug. I know the giant said, Well, Mr. Blanchet doesn't speak for us. Um, I mean, but y'all just want him a few years ago to come Coachella so let's let's not

Dave Clarke: 24:35

is he just is he just gonna get pounded with this all season? Anything? He doesn't answer

Rayshawn Buchanan: 24:40

maybe maybe in the offseason could it still but it by the time we get to, you know, to July, isn't it? You know, how? How does? How do you see the progression of Mack Jones a year to like, what are some things you look for early on? Sure. Like that's, that's the question is gonna be like, you know, um, you know what, we'll see. We'll see what someone has to go. I mean, if somebody had to just ask him by his his New Year's resolutions, they damaged it, but asked about this. This is way more fucking important then. You know, what do you what are you doing? What are you gonna lose 10 pounds, or are you gonna keep you have Nike making the pics? Like, who knows maybe Nike sent a text. Maybe Nike say, Hey, Brian, uh, you know, maybe not getting jobs, but maybe it was Nike. Maybe it was the fucking dog. Maybe that's what it was. Okay, maybe that There you go. That's my conclusion. Actually. Question. Maybe it was an attack thing. Hey, hey, Brian. You know, I messed that up or whatever. So yeah, we're living real life Family Guy. That's what's going on. So maybe maybe that's what it was. So yeah, there you go. We saw it. We solved the case here. The point DK Hollywood Ray, we saw that it was Nike, that that's what happened here. So any any last words on this before we get into to talk to Tom Brady?

Dave Clarke: 25:50

No, I hope I hope I haven't heard the end of Brian Flores is all I think. I think he's a good coach. And I thought it was great. What he did with the dolphins this season, I thought was a huge turnaround and sugar late that is, is right away. I'm going to give the credit to the coachee when something like that happens. And it was pretty clear that it was him and his staff doing that. And I'm not sure what went down to get them fired, but I hope he gets a job. And I hope that he doesn't stop talking about it because he's not wrong.

Rayshawn Buchanan: 26:18

Yep. Facts. Agreed. So yeah, so Alright, so Whoa, yo, just just just a small small story happened to fear you know, emigrated was not playing anymore. But you know, Tom Brady, who played here for a million years,

Dave Clarke: 26:32

we mad about the statement. Were you mad? Tell me.

Rayshawn Buchanan: 26:34

We're gonna go get into it. Um, I wasn't I wasn't necessarily. Yeah, we just did. I was I want to say I wasn't I wasn't mad about it. I thought it was actually pretty funny. On that he went through that people were so enraged about that. It's like, oh, like, angry. I was I wasn't I wasn't a part of the team that was like, well, he's he said something two years ago. It's like, oh, the man plays for Tampa Bay right now. He was. So it's just like, Yo, that listen, he didn't he? I think a day later today, it came out that he was gonna do the side side on one day contract. He probably had the longest press conference to talk about our stuff then like, it's cool. Um, but yeah, he clearly has ill feelings or ill will towards you know, Bill as a mother as an organization. And hey, it is what it is. And right now build billion look into good. So I'm just like, honestly, as I was doing the negative white right now, fucking, that's where I'm at right now that I had moments like that throughout the season where I was like, I was out on him.

Dave Clarke: 27:32

Wait, I'm sorry, hold on a second. Hold on a second. You're saying you're out and Bill Belichick.

Rayshawn Buchanan: 27:37

I will say I had mumbles during the season when I was able to afford I was I was ready to move on. That's before.

Unknown: 27:42

That's, that's, that's true.

Rayshawn Buchanan: 27:46

Oh, yeah, but that's how that's how that's how that's how that's how that was though. Cuz I was like, You spent all this you spent almost $200 million in the offseason and you were on my you losing games as you should win. Like I was pissed off, but obviously today they're turning around and made the playoffs. But yeah, it was it was it was awful. Um, early on, in my opinion, you know, originally we had at the wrong time once again, but you know that that's a whole nother show for another day. But yeah, but I wasn't mad. I wasn't mad about the politics. I I was born mad that someone didn't give him his opportunity to go out the way he wanted to. Um, because clearly there's someone in this circle said something's a chef or whoever, you know, reported. I thought that was pretty wack. Um,

Dave Clarke: 28:31

yeah, I feel like if you're a chef, so you got to confirm it with him. Right? Right. Of course. Of course. Right. What are you doing, bro?

Rayshawn Buchanan: 28:38

But but that's that's the news cycle nowadays, like no one no one wants to be no one cares about being right. inaccurate. Everyone wants me. No, that's not right. not accurate. Everyone wants to be right. So no one no one cares about the accuracy of the story.

Dave Clarke: 28:50

And everybody wants to be first. I think rightly, like Chef jobs, you know, Chapter got scooped a couple of times. I feel like there was a period where he like, he just he was the first to everything, like all the time. And I feel like I got scooped a couple times. Now. He's jumped the gun a couple of times. Yes. Yes. That's

Rayshawn Buchanan: 29:07

me. Rappaport. Those are the two guys that get they get all the you know, and I think, you know, it was Jason locker for for a while to like he had his MO and I get it. Right. So you want to put out that that's a huge story. Um, I didn't want to leave. You know, I said we we literally just talked about God blessing. So you know, not that he was going to come back and

Dave Clarke: 29:29

Thanks, Tom. We didn't date the content right away. Yeah, no, it's

Rayshawn Buchanan: 29:33

a it is what it is. It makes it you know, it was cool. You know, it became a nice video on tick tock, baby. So you know, so that was cool. But, um, you know, but I might, I'll ask you, but obviously, you know, you're one of the two non New England fans on the show. So, um, now that his career is said and done another 22 seasons, you know, what is the right for you all the time?

Dave Clarke: 29:58

Yeah, he's clearly the greatest quarterback of all time, maybe he's probably the best football player of all time. It's not close. It's like no longer close. He was still nasty is that they? And like, I think I know, you said like, he was gonna go until he sucked. Um, and he just like really didn't suck at all. Like, he just he didn't even drop off like 1% of 1%. Like, I think he was better. I think there was the parts of his game are better from then from when he was 34. You know? And like, I think it's way more badass to go out on top like that to basically still be if you're starting to season tomorrow, and you have your choice of quarterbacks to still basically be everybody's number one. Voice especially with how the boy went crazy. Yeah, Ford F 44 years old and Yeah, cuz it's just like it's yeah, it's it's skill. And it's the way that he can put together a team. And it's the way that his guys play for him. But it's also it's also he knows how to win. You know, he's just the guy really knows how to win. And like, I know, one of your questions was just tied into this. I know when your questions was, are we judging? Pat mahomes too harshly because, you know, he crashed out of this another title game, but like he's obviously playing at a very high level. And you can see he's still very young. I think we're judging him in the Brady era, like the post Brady era, I think that it's pretty clear that the big question in everybody's minds is, is anybody going to be able to be that good ever again? Is that is that now that you're how long is this going to be the yardstick for? And I think there was just kind of a while? Yeah, I agree. But I think it was voice is kind of saying, I don't know, man, Pat mahomes. In today's NFL, like, the way that you know, the game, favourites, quarterbacks, and like the way that you can make these plays as a Pat mahomes. So because he can move he can throw, um, and the team he has around him like, maybe, but you know, it's it's an unfair standard, but it is sort of the standard, unfortunately, like that is that is the, the measuring stick that everyone should use to test themselves against? It's, it's Brady or bust for all the time greats. Now, you know what I mean? Like, who gives a shit about the conversation? of, oh, well, who's like the best of the rest? You know what I mean? Like, who's the bet it's like, who cares? It's, you know, who the best guy is, you know, that's, that's who's to be and if you're, if you really want to achieve greatness, in sports, that's what you should be setting yourself against. You know, that's, that's the standard you should be looking at, like, and if anybody's sitting there going, like, well, that's just not possible. Well, get fuck out here, then you're obviously never gonna do it. I bet somebody does get a one day. I really do. I bet we see it in our lifetime. But it was cool to watch. It was cool to watch as a little kid. You know, from the first from the 2001 Super Bowl. I was so young. You know, I was like, 11 years old. And he just retired. And I'm, I'm 31 and almost 32. And it's just like, you know, some days I woke up mad at him. Because he like just fucking just destroyed the bears. By the time the Falcons comeback happened, I was like, Yeah, I mean, he's the goat. It's not close. That was pretty much it for me. So anything else after that was cream cheese? Yeah, of course. He's the fucking goat. I mean,

Rayshawn Buchanan: 33:28

but that but that I want to I want to add on to what you just said right there. Right. So you said it took you to the Atlanta game to realize that right? Yes, that game. Right. But that's so which is fair, right? But that that's what pissed me off about those that were pounding mahomes After the Chiefs after this onto the 49 so it was like, wait a minute, like, you're gonna think Brady was the guy? Really? It's an EPC I don't forget about Atlanta. When when a tonic when a when a B Seattle in 2015. You know, so we just passed the anniversary of that. I'm like, that's that's what people said. Well, then Tom Montana, like just this guy. Like, wait a minute, like, what's it like?

Dave Clarke: 34:07

Montana was the yardstick right? My

Rayshawn Buchanan: 34:10

face Oh, my It's looking 1415 years to get you and you're telling me a guy have three fucking years or past that. Once again? Is he on his way? Sure. You can say that. Yeah,

Dave Clarke: 34:23

it's cuz he's electric. It's because he's fucking electric. You know? Like everyone just got excited.

Rayshawn Buchanan: 34:27

You but you can't you can't get up and I the best way I can say it because you know once again being a basketball guy, right? I wasn't the one of the two guys I'm gonna say we wasn't around ever seen him play because we weren't born yet. Well, none of us on this show were born yet but so I think about it. It's Dr. J. And then Michael Jordan, right. People that saw like, I think about my father. My father has Dr. J. Wholesome pi Bobby when you're Jordan, right, because that was that was there, Jordan? He's dunking over people. You know, he's blocking shots, whatever like that. That was dies there.

Dave Clarke: 35:01

He's cooler than Michael Jordan too. He had like yeah, for sure.

Rayshawn Buchanan: 35:04

There's Dan benders guy comes on North Carolina. Can you know can basically float in the air? The Air Force and Air he's getting 37 of the game to Star Season right? So just like Pat right just don't yell like and I've never He's got

Dave Clarke: 35:18

everything he can dribble he can he can play defense. Yeah, like

Rayshawn Buchanan: 35:22

oh my god, but it took him seven years to get to the final like we haven't really talked about his career from 91 to 98. No light, he played from 84 So I was three that that dad 19 years that span and then to retire, but that matters. Now the whole the whole totality matters. So I go it's like context matters. I just say so, um, that that's what it is. And I get it. Listen, mahomes is the absolute problem to say otherwise. It's like listen, um, either we don't know what's going on or you have a troll, and that's fine. That's cool. Um, but it's just like to say that in year three or four I think he's uh, you're five now said he's our he already surpassed Brady. Or even fucking Peyton Manning. Oh, no way. Yeah, I'm not gonna pay him any guy at all. But the stuff that we saw I have new numbers. Yes. Get like Brees Airmont. Yeah, you want to pass them on with you? I'm he's already Yeah, he's only better than those guys. But he's not better than that Manny or Brady right now. No way. Are you happy? No, it was a pass up eventually.

Dave Clarke: 36:26

Maybe. I mean, you're talking about those seasons we watched you know, people have such short memories up top of the seasons, we watched it back to back or nearly back to back of them dropping fucking 45 plus to the fucking house. I mean, it's just like crazy. Like every week, it was just like dive dive dive dive and you're just like, Okay, I guess this is ridiculous. But this is how it is now. Like, completely different. Really, just like running, just running. Looking up every like, every 10 seconds. There's a new Randy Moss eyelet I swear to God, there was times where I couldn't tell them apart. Where I'd be like, we do that. I would like come out of the game and I'd come back and I'd be like, Oh, they're showing this touchdown again. It'd be like, Oh, no, it's a new one scored the exact same way. It's just by running faster than guys. And it's like no, Bob says anything like that. We got a ton of great skill players around them. And I'm not sure that early in their careers. They had guys on the level of Travis Kelsey.

Rayshawn Buchanan: 37:21

Hey, David givings Jemaine Wiggins was now doing radio. Christian for reais was also Are you kidding me cutting out Daniel. Pat's.

Dave Clarke: 37:30

The pets in 2001 had like, had like a crafty special teams, you know, like they were they were like chippy. You know, they weren't like, the biggest kids on the block. Like when the Kansas City comes to town. Everybody's fucking terrified. You know, it's not just because of Pat mahomes It's because of the fucking whole thing that they got going on over there. So,

Rayshawn Buchanan: 37:47

but it is really just Helen CoSIDA like people will make it seem like good. Like, listen, people are not scared. That's enough to know. I know. I did see what it's like. No, but you say that but we can we can get it to that next but it wasn't enough because as soon as you shut down a hill, it was something it was they could do it so I'm gonna we'll touch on that. That's true. That's what happened. So knock on wood just to scare anybody a Pringle that night these days.

Dave Clarke: 38:15

But to your point about Brady though, I mean, that's exactly the point is that like a guy you get you got to not be able to throw it to Tyreke Hill and when you're like if you're Pat mahomes And you're like trying to get to that level you're trying to achieve that Senate and you're trying to beat Tom Brady or beat Tom Brady or even beat like you said he could be Peyton Manning or beat Peyton Manning you know you got to do you got to find a way to fucking win when Tyree kills not producing. That's just like, because I guarantee you like that's I mean to me, you know people talk about Tom Brady's qualities to me the number one Far and Away best quality that Tom Brady had and this is especially true later in his career is that he could make plays to guys that no other quarterback really could make plays to and I think and he could find guys and make them hit their mark and and run their routes and like you know get get their assignments correct to a point where he it was him making the place you know what I mean? It was him getting into these guys and if you watch a different quarterback he's just not going to be able to do that and it's not Yeah, not not consistently anyways. No, and I think that Josh Allen has that quality a little bit too I mean, I know he's got a got a lot of guys around and what I liked about what the bills did against the the Chiefs is I mean obviously that comes out fucking out of control but they were just like, let's have a shootout like they both teams just agreed, like let's have a shootout it was probably the greatest shootout I've ever seen. To be quite honest with you.

Rayshawn Buchanan: 39:32

agreed it was it was it was unreal. st it was it was just

Dave Clarke: 39:36

like I was like just jumping up and down like I've never been like that excited about a game that didn't involve one of my own teams. But you know, I think they said a good blueprint then to the Bengals and also I think they're a little mentally scarred going against the Bengals too so like there is context to this kind of stuff and I liked it there's teams in the AFC standing up to them, like no there there's teams not rolling over and being like yeah, the chiefs are just gonna run the AFC for the next like X amount of years you know,

Rayshawn Buchanan: 40:03

I wonder who's gonna be there Baltimore, right that listen Yeah, maybe we'll get

Dave Clarke: 40:07

it says maybe it's Baltimore.

Rayshawn Buchanan: 40:11

Yeah, maybe we'll be bought maybe we'll be kinda

Dave Clarke: 40:13

like I know it's I know it's an unpopular opinion on this podcast. No,

Rayshawn Buchanan: 40:16

no, you will not know you and I on the two but no, that's why I'm listening. Lamar Jackson, you play. The man went down. Yeah, they didn't win another fucking game. So I don't I don't want to hear it Mike.

Dave Clarke: 40:29

Yeah, if Lamar Jackson won a Super Bowl, that would be the funnest playoffs any of us have ever watched like that like other than this one. Maybe but like Lamar Jackson on the road to Super Bowl winning would it would be insane Here's like, so much shit what happened? Like I

Rayshawn Buchanan: 40:45

was out of discord. Oh my god, I keep writing messages to the Lord because I'm like, that is

Dave Clarke: 40:50

he's so fun to watch. Like, why are you hating on me? So fun to watch? Who cares? Like, it's because the Patriots fans hate Baltimore I get that. But

Rayshawn Buchanan: 40:57

yeah, awesome. But yeah, but we'll see who becomes their boss? Well, I said we will be burro. Will it be a? You know? Will it be Alan? Will it be? You know her, but eventually, you know, no, AMC is set up for years. Um, who knows? Maybe, you know, maybe Meg Jones takes a leap.

Dave Clarke: 41:14

I was gonna say, I can't believe you didn't say Mack Jones. I feel like he's not

Rayshawn Buchanan: 41:18

he's not in that he's using the next year. And if he ever listed ways in there right now, let's get out of burger rookie season. Um, I think that he made he was leaps and bounds better by the end of the year than he was.

Dave Clarke: 41:29

It's understandable to that he faded. I mean, that happens to rookies Right? Like,

Rayshawn Buchanan: 41:33

right. Yeah, exactly. That that curve, that curve, that curve was gonna happen. Just the learning curve was there. And that's it. He he answered the call many times. And there was plenty of games where he made throws and made plays that if he didn't make those plays, and throws that, you know, they wouldn't have been in the position they were in. And so

Dave Clarke: 41:49

who were you when, when when the draft happened? And the draft happened? And they treated it up for Jones.

Rayshawn Buchanan: 41:56

Were you down? Did they didn't trade? Did they say they are sorry? The when

Dave Clarke: 42:00

Chicago traded up for fields. Were you like in Mike's camp where you were like, oh, I want to Justin fields? Or did you think Mack Jones was gonna be better?

Rayshawn Buchanan: 42:10

I want to Lance. I want to gotcha, gotcha. My guy. Let last was the

Dave Clarke: 42:14

between those two, though. Who would you have rather?

Rayshawn Buchanan: 42:18

Well, I want to try and meet Jane. Leslie Jones.

Dave Clarke: 42:21

Well, between Yeah, between your guy at the start? And now that you've seen both of their rookie seasons? Who would? Would you would you do the same thing again?

Rayshawn Buchanan: 42:28

I'm definitely right. It would Mack now. I didn't feel that way. At the beginning.

Dave Clarke: 42:33

Maybe freelance looks different in New England, though to

Rayshawn Buchanan: 42:36

just the fields will have a bright future to say otherwise. I think once again, either you don't know what's going on or you want to troll?

Dave Clarke: 42:44

Yeah. Well, it depends. It depends on on the offense. It depends on the offense that they put together around them. You know, I mean, it's Yeah, dig dig,

Rayshawn Buchanan: 42:50

dig dig, they're gonna they're gonna have to but um, but either way, at the quarterback position for the next 10 to 15 years. Everyone say it's healthy. It's, it's very bright.

Dave Clarke: 43:00

To cogeneration to get generation quarterbacks,

Rayshawn Buchanan: 43:02

for sure. And it's the NFL is in a good spot for sure. So for the racism, right? Yeah. Yeah. Right down on the field on auto. Yeah. Great. Great point there. All right. So yeah, let's just get into the conference. championship game. So obviously, um, you know, Cincinnati played, you know, I beat Kansas City, and then the Rams had be San Francisco. So, um, you know, I mean, we talked a little bit about Joe already a few few moments ago, but, you know, what did you learn about him? What do you learn about that Bengals team as a whole on Sunday?

Dave Clarke: 43:34

I think you know, like I said, I think there was context to their win. I don't I didn't think that the bangles the way that they want I you know, I'm not taking anything from them. I really like Joe burrow. He's become a very quick fan. Like a lot of people I think around the NFL watching world, since he's sort of stepped up this season. And, you know, I feel for the guy too, because I think we all fell for him. We talked about it a good amount on the show last season. That's a tough injury, and he was having a good year. Um, yeah, I think he's super fun. I think he's a he's got a cadet and his shoulders. I like the way he carries himself. I think he's a really good quarterback. Do I think that the Bengals are better than the chiefs? No, I don't but they're the Superbowl so it doesn't really fucking matter. Um, do I think that they're gonna be do I think that they're gonna beat the Rams? I I do I do think that they're gonna beat the Rams? Because i i Yeah, I like it. I think it's just been like this quarterback Ward this season. And like, a lot of crazy shit has gone down in the in the postseason and especially in these conference championship games that we're you know, we're talking about now. And the round before it was also fucking bananas. But uh, I just feel like it's, it's in its purest form. A lot of these games have come down to give us the better quarterback and like a very pure sense this season. Um, and I think there's been a lot of cool quarterbacks that I kind of follow. And to me like Stafford has just been a bad guy since the start because I'm like, I'm just so mad. He's going to the Super Bowl because he just like he's just not that good. He's Just Not That fucking good. Like, he's not that guy. And if he went to Super Bowl it's to me it's going to be Eli level. It's going to be Eli level ring, which is it was asterisk.

Rayshawn Buchanan: 45:18

He put he put a better number to the lotto. Sure,

Dave Clarke: 45:23

but I think that the let's be honest here and I'm not trying to sound bitter cuz I know, I hate staffer, but he's here. He's here because of the most boneheaded defensive call of the entire playoffs, and maybe I can't think of all of them but the most boneheaded defensive call of the last like maybe 10 playoffs. Cooper cup has the season he has. Were like I can't think of a wide receiver who I would have rather had this seat like you know fantasy wise just like just putting up numbers I don't know who you'd rather have the Cooper cup this season just on the math right so why are you letting him go single coverage over the top with the fucking game on the line after your quarterback who's also happens to be like we just talked about the greatest of all time and just like dug you out of a fucking hole in one of the best playoff comebacks of all time and then you just let Matt Stafford of all people like throw over your fucking head like Aren't you embarrassed? Like right and they it wasn't even their only bad call it that game. on the defensive side of the ball set you please just put you guys on Cooper cup. Like PLEASE JUST PUT YOUR FUCKING guys on Cooper cup at the end of the goddamn game. Like what why are you trying to be white trying to be fancy? I don't understand just put two fucking guys out.

Rayshawn Buchanan: 46:33

But that but that doesn't it and really any sort of war run so whether it's an oil and wine or whether it's you know, when was Chicago went back and like, it's some luck has to be sure the ball some some stupid players on the other team's behalf has to be involved. So, um, I don't I don't hold that against me. I get it. It serves your point. But it doesn't it doesn't make it to me. It doesn't take away from what they've been able to do. Um, yes, I know. They got there with Jared Goff I get that. Um, but to me, it's not even close. To me the impact was was much better. And obviously as we saw what happened in

Dave Clarke: 47:12

Okay, he's better than Jared Goff. Oh, no,

Rayshawn Buchanan: 47:14

no, I'm saying but it's like when you make that swap it was like it really was Super Bowl of bus for them. Um, because they have everything else there.

Dave Clarke: 47:23

It did seem like a good very very good fit when the trade happened it seems like there was some there was some pixie dust about it a little bit I agree. I

Rayshawn Buchanan: 47:32

mean yeah, but I mean when you when you have no you know your guy Linda Floyd when you have um you know Aaron Donald when you have Ramsey you know obviously you had a copy of Robert was before he went down he got injured and obviously with the addition of obj who was nothing but a model citizen there in LA Von Miller you

Dave Clarke: 47:49

add ons to defense that was a great move to that was risky and it paid off for sure so

Rayshawn Buchanan: 47:54

I think that that's where they realized I look we got to go for broke right now like we have we have a window you know this this this core has been to the to the Super Bowl. We're looking to get there again. We got to compete with everybody we got to compete with you know the other powers in the NFC so let's a date make next day day cat they capitalized? I mean listen, I'm and I've said it on the show. Um, I saw it like I'll say this I wanted to Stafford in New England I thought I think that he could play it I really do. Um, the numbers the numbers were consistent throughout Yes. You're going to make bad plays when you play in a franchise where if you don't play well, you're not even excited because you play well. You got a chance if you don't play well. It's over because nothing else around you is going to contribute to to winning. And I think I said it on the show last week, but it was so it was so funny. That played it you're talking about where Antoine Winfield got got burned. It was so fitting that Sue was the guy that was running towards Matthew Stafford I thought that was just so funny. Like that allow I said oh, they might actually go to the Superbowl, but I'm gonna say I don't I mean, to me, I mean, they're gonna be able to beat the Packers. It was gonna be the

Dave Clarke: 49:08

Packers. Yeah, well, you knew the Packers here to crash out because like, yeah, exactly.

Rayshawn Buchanan: 49:12

So that'd be it. It was gonna be so I was I was I was concerned. And they got there. But yeah, um, I said, Wow, I said this, this this. This is crazy. But I hear you. There definitely was some loser. mentality moments for sure. In Detroit. I I'm not I'm not just I'm not gonna say here.

Dave Clarke: 49:28

I just think Jared Goff would have made that throw. I be probably would have made all the throws to get them there in the first place. But that throw that last one.

Rayshawn Buchanan: 49:37

But Gurley was still a major part of their offense when he went a few years ago. So I felt like it was a lot of check down Charlie to girlier but

Dave Clarke: 49:44

I'm saying if he's in that situation, and he sees Cooper cup. I would make that fucking point. I would.

Rayshawn Buchanan: 49:51

I would, I would hope so. I would hope so. Um, it was the easiest

Dave Clarke: 49:54

throw ever. It wasn't like the most special throw you've ever seen though. You know what I mean? It wasn't like Stafford was like magic. I know but it was like just he just dropped it into a lake. It was there playing fucking catch in the fucking backyard. The coverage was non existent. Make him work for it.

Rayshawn Buchanan: 50:11

Right No, let's let's let's let's continue with that. Right so remember a couple years ago in the Superbowl in Sydney Jesus had assembled a throne. He had some manual standards in his chest as ballgame and Jimmy G had never know but there was nothing around them but palm trees and you know everyone get a chance to get lemonade. You got it got it. Got it got a sandwich all that. Remember Jimmy G. Jimmy G throws it overthrows Emmanuel Sanders. It's a basically that's all she wrote. That's the ballgame. All She Wrote You still got to make the throne yes what the difficulty the Adria difficulty matters. Um, and it wasn't easy to throw but you still got to make it and in fact they liked it you made it and I said Sue was running at him it wasn't like he was just you know what I'm reminded

Dave Clarke: 50:54

me of honestly it's like, it reminded me of the kind of heartbreak that like an EA Sports made game can bring into your life like a FIFA or Madden where like, you're like, it's just that those games like they just don't reward you for the kind of hard work that Tom Brady put in on the drives to get his team into winning position and the plays that he made and he like made those like 10 plays and how many times have you been playing a Madden Madden game where you work your ass off to like get up by three, but it's mad. So there's like 36 seconds left on the clock and some other fuckers just gonna make like a very easy pass over your head because like your guys don't do what you tell them to do. It's just bloated. You just want to kill yourself.

Rayshawn Buchanan: 51:36

It happened to me man habits and yeah, yeah, yeah, I would. This is this is when Philadelphia was good back in the day. I'm on Madden. So just like the mcnabb's pinxton

Dave Clarke: 51:46

See it's so painful you remember? Yeah, like McNabb level, Madden defeat

Rayshawn Buchanan: 51:51

this this this yo the Westbrook do Staley days you know these guys were a problem on on on Madden. As I'm throwing it all over, baby I'm I'm I'm getting I'm getting yards 30 yards there. And then yeah, I'm playing against the Rams. And yet here and Russell fall back. They're returning kicks. It it really is were five seconds left. I was on that TV out there. It was out the window. So five o'clock.

Dave Clarke: 52:22

Oh my god. That's so upsetting. I feel I'm upset for you.

Rayshawn Buchanan: 52:26

Yeah, I've got listen. Oh, yeah.

Dave Clarke: 52:30

Nobody knows the pain. Unless you've been there, dude. Yeah, yeah. So. So me, you and Tom Brady. Basically, me and Tom Brady are all in the same boat. We're basically the same guy. Yeah.

Rayshawn Buchanan: 52:41

Exactly. But, uh, let's, I want to go back to San Francisco. Right. So obviously, you know, they were the losers. You know, Jimmy J didn't play well. Debo was mid. You see these Elisa? Probably he's, he's made? Yeah. Um, so I mean, you know, have we seen the interview Jimmy G and San Francisco? And what do you think he goes?

Dave Clarke: 53:01

Um, I mean, I think it's fair to say he's not going to get it done there. Right. I think that's kind of fair. Yeah. I would love I'm glad Mack Jones had the seasons the season that he had, because like the conversations about Jimmy G coming back to New England, were just getting so incessant. It's like, Yeah, I mean, maybe maybe Bill Belichick and get that kind of stuff out of his game, maybe. But like, at this point, you got your guy. So I don't think we should entertain that possibility anymore. I don't think you I don't think you draft obviously the way that you draft if you're San Francisco if you're like planning to keep GBG for much longer. And, you know, if you believe in your drafting I think you get your guy in there and you use the salary that because you're paying them a rookie QB salary use the the salary that you freed up with the Jimmy Garoppolo and you try and get him some skill guys, and you try and build a team. I think if they're young enough, I think they have enough like, good offensive players to like, start that process. And I just don't think San Francisco are gonna get it done. I mean, do you disagree? Do you think as they're currently constituted that they're gonna come back stronger next year with him at quarterback? I don't think so.

Rayshawn Buchanan: 54:06

I mean, just this this was kind of an a problem one for them. Like they got hot. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. That's the other thing. Yeah. Yeah. Mad that they were going into actually my facts How ironic. I think going into the Cincinnati game is when you know, they seem to turn around. So I'm wishing spring 14. So you know, there's six or seven and winning out there. And actually, they they went out they went out to go 1010 and seven. And so that's okay, you know, just might be a team that you know, no one wants to face in that that's what happened and they they beat two teams out then if they should have lost they were

Dave Clarke: 54:37

they're coming to the playoffs. That's fair enough. You know, I think we all said that.

Rayshawn Buchanan: 54:40

Your lives in Minnesota was great. Um, you know, debo Samuel is

Dave Clarke: 54:45

I felt so bad for him. I felt so bad for him. He tried his ass off to you.

Rayshawn Buchanan: 54:50

Yeah, it was awesome. I think it speaking about pain like his pain watching him dominate out there. And his bomb Nikhil Harry still has a job in the NFL span it's just it just just no bigger pain that I feel like I will I will scream what I was feeling our cried tears of joy when a hair done enough done enough the only pictures ever released Nikhil Harry after really? Um. I'll say emergency pod Craig received his he got thank God he got released you know? Um, but yeah, like Yeah, depot was awesome. But yeah, I think you know, like said they had the detail to build through the job to know I'm not sure even though it's California. People in flocking to San Francisco.

Dave Clarke: 55:44

I think there's a way I think there was a sort of a, it was very helpful for their franchise to make it as far as they did. I think it was a sort of a certain sense in the in the news media and in kind of fan interactions of like, oh, yeah, we like having the San Francisco 40 Niners be good. You know, I think there's this sort of consensus if you don't, if you're not a direct rival with them, I think they're, I don't know, I their uniforms are cool. And they had Joe Montana and Jerry Rice. And they're involved in a lot of cool highlights. When you're watching, like old football footage. It's a cool city, and it's in the state i live in. So it's all you know, I know a few people that are happy when they're good. I mean, obviously, I want the bears to be better. But I it's, it's, it's, you know, it didn't I you know, and then there was that when they were good in our era as well, you know, when they had when they had the war and SAP, so the world and like they were, you know, they were still kind of knocking around and they've been gone for the last few years trying to build something. And I think they have a good young team. And I think if they just commit to that youth, I think there's like you said build through the draft, I think I think the future's bright for them. And I think it was good PR for the franchise as a whole.

Rayshawn Buchanan: 56:50

Yeah, I mean, I said that Damacy West is scary. So it's like trade lines but trade trade less better developed because if not, um, but sometimes

Dave Clarke: 56:59

that's where the best, the best cubies are made internally mean when there's team Oh, sure.

Rayshawn Buchanan: 57:03

But I mean, Kyla Kyla Marie's ready. Um, I said, obviously, you know, I mean, Stephens obvious, Eduardo. I know. Russell Wilson is older than I think then.

Dave Clarke: 57:12

I don't think he's gonna be there next season. No, I

Rayshawn Buchanan: 57:15

don't think

Dave Clarke: 57:16

so. He's got a weird feeling about that. I think he's gonna go I feel like he's gonna go to like Miami or something.

Rayshawn Buchanan: 57:21

Yeah, maybe he goes there and maybe, you know, maybe you guys give him a call? Who knows?

Dave Clarke: 57:28

I don't know. Just you got to play Justin fields. You got to try to make some

Rayshawn Buchanan: 57:33

you get Russ you know, as I like. It's not like he's he's 41 But he only 33 So it

Dave Clarke: 57:40

just feels better. Does it make him better?

Rayshawn Buchanan: 57:42

It showed? Yeah, yeah. I don't think um, once again, I mean, Greg, I mean, I know Aaron Rodgers not the best example but the fact that he he guys had to sit behind very far for two years that absolutely helped his career and if he wasn't say otherwise, I'm like, you're like of course. Yes. It helps so yeah, I think a year or two under Ross would would be cool but I at the same time but they want to stop that clock now and getting you know fields out there or any other young quarterback destined the NFL out there I totally you know understand but yeah, I think Miami Park would be that that place I think you know those days in Seattle are oh yeah seems like it. But yeah, any any any last words on the on the title game before we get into ourselves?

Dave Clarke: 58:27

You got Who do you have? Who do you have for the future Bo II think

Rayshawn Buchanan: 58:30

I'm going with the Rams. I think the Bengals are a better story.

Dave Clarke: 58:33

Like it sounds like I love that. Yeah, I can't I can't wait to chat with you and Super Bowl. Oh,

Rayshawn Buchanan: 58:37

yeah, for sure. It's gonna be great. Right? Yeah, exactly. You know, um, yeah, not to be able to record there's gonna be out everywhere right but

Dave Clarke: 58:47

all over the Tiktok that Craig is cultivating? Oh

Rayshawn Buchanan: 58:50

my gosh, I'm worldwide crushing becoming a phenomenon overnight. You just love to see it.

Dave Clarke: 58:56

overnight. It's taken forever but talking to each other two microphones for like the better part of two decades.

Craig D'Alessandro: 59:05

We are tick tock Oh girl a lot faster. We had a girl on the show they get a shake it a little bit but unfortunately, you know we are we are

Dave Clarke: 59:12

so I've been telling you to sex it up a little bit. Put some lipstick on. Jesus Christ. Never take me anywhere nice anymore.

Unknown: 59:21

Yeah. Y'all Love me like you used to.

Dave Clarke: 59:26

Remember we get together the sparks.

Rayshawn Buchanan: 59:30

Right? Yeah, you feel me? Yep. Alright, so Well, with that being said, let's get into some stuff this talk man. So, you know, we kind of started we prematurely brought it up cuz we were so excited that they have actually played I know but yeah, come until now. You know, obviously we are now at the beginning of February. But last month, they close on a great note they went 10 and six and now that currently three games over 500 for the first time all season. So you know what is starting to go right in your opinion? You know, for yourselves we've seen

Dave Clarke: 1:00:01

um, you know, I don't want to say I thought that they were kind of there there abouts of like how to win but like, obviously, it was a mentality issue. Like obviously the first thing that needed to be addressed from the middle of last season, maybe even a little bit before that. Till now was leadership, mentality decision making all the stuff that exists sort of in the mind of a basketball team, the hive mind, a basketball team, I thought was was just wrong. And it seems like it seems like to me basically all we know is what we're kind of hearing from the locker room, you know, but and I think we've been sort of oversaturated but Celtics locker room messages over the last few years where it's like no, we got to get It's gonna be fine. There's been a lot of that. So like it's more of like a I believe it when I see it type thing but I did like that last week I think it was last week that it was Al Horford was the one to come out and be like, you know, Jaylen Brown is really emerging as a leader in the in the locker room and he's like really like taking control of the of the inspiration of the team and like trying to get the guys locked in. I'm paraphrasing of course but I liked it it was Al because I was like not going to just tell tales out of school you know, if he's saying that he's saying it for a reason. So I think mentality wise, they got a little bit locked in. I think we're starting to realize like what personnel can create produce on the floor in as the team is currently constituted, and which ones can't a case in point I was a fan of Schroeder. When he came in. I know Celtics Twitter immediately turned on him. And it looks like he's on his way out the door. So you know, it didn't work out it would I agree that it didn't work out? I think he'll be successful role player somewhere else. I don't know if it is the team for him. I still think Yeah, it's nice that things are starting to go right. But let me let me throw the question to you back to you. Do you think that are you happy with the personnel still? I feel like there's some wholesale changes that needs to be mean.

Rayshawn Buchanan: 1:01:55

So maybe now wholesale, I think, yeah, I felt like wholesale changes earlier when I felt that way. Um, yeah, I think now maybe it's more of a minor tweak.

Dave Clarke: 1:02:04

I wanted to trade everybody multiple times this season. I wanted to trade every single member of them.

Rayshawn Buchanan: 1:02:10

So I feel um, but to answer the question I asked you about, you know, what is your right arm? I just think it's the maybe the reemergence of Tatum, Brown. Um, because usually it's either it's either or, right now. They're both saying we're the two best players on the floor. You cannot gorgous and it's about time and somewhat like they had to realize it could it's like sometimes you could feel they

Dave Clarke: 1:02:35

were playing together. They weren't spreading the floor the way that they can spread the floor they because most long and they're both quick and like Jaylen brown makes really crafty runs like you know, behind the basket and went through lanes and Tatum is like so dangerous everywhere he goes so they can complement each other you know if the if they try if they learn to play like that.

Rayshawn Buchanan: 1:02:52

Now now we're seeing that though, I mean now

Dave Clarke: 1:02:55

inability to stay on the floor is an issue when it comes to that their

Rayshawn Buchanan: 1:03:00

health is always going to be a factor. Um, but to me the number with them is the five is five right? And when I said what I mean by that is a five or six or more. I did the thing it was a lesson to get Charlotte on as records of a birthday like date. I think Tim had nine assists. Brown has said

Dave Clarke: 1:03:17

I'm looking for eight, eight assists from Jason Tatum. That's what that's my number. It's my magic number

Rayshawn Buchanan: 1:03:22

that's on the higher I don't see that happening.

Dave Clarke: 1:03:24

That's the that's the goal. That's the playmaking goal. I want Jason Tatum to get to you know, I'm not asking for Rajon Rondo like double digit assist numbers every single night. I'm asking for, like on the higher end. And if and if you're scoring is in the 23 to 26 range. That's fine. Yeah, that's, that's okay. Like that's the complete package of Jason Tatum to me. And like, yeah, he can it can go for for 30 or 40, or 50 or 60. Sure. But like, just go out there and like, be a problem be the problem that I know you can be. And I think that he's still trying to find his identity in that regard a little bit more, but I think he's doing the right. And we've been talking about him improving his playmaking for the last three seasons.

Rayshawn Buchanan: 1:04:03

Yeah, but I think now it's like it's finally starting to finally click right. I agree getting those assists at Yeah, has been great. And I that That, to me, has been the biggest transition for me with him. Um, same thing with Jalen Brown. Right. I think they both have to work on the handles, though, because there's too many times when, you know, they get through the lane. And I do think defenders are a little bit more aggressive with them. And they're not getting the call they should get though, you know,

Dave Clarke: 1:04:27

I mean, I just I think I think it's their fishing in general. And I still think that we're a little skewed away from how often I'd like both of them to be going to the basket. Yeah, and I you know, and I know I've been banging the spoken drum for and it's getting annoying, probably at this point, but a presence like even Robert Williams in the way that he is sort of been amazing. Been playing this sort of stretch, big role very athletically the kind of thing that we wanted to see from him basically, he's it seems like he's in 10 places at once defensively, I really I have been enjoying it. But I need someone because I see it happen in flashes with more fruits on the floor. I need somebody to sort of clear the lane for those guys a little bit more. You know, I find that we're, we're, we so lacked underneath the basket of presence. I mean, listen, I this is the ad Biography Channel, but I grew up on the kind of basketball where I was just watching Shaquille O'Neal just shove his ass into other players and they would go flying. And that didn't just open up things for Shaquille O'Neal. You know what I mean? That opened up things for the Dwayne Wade's and the Kobe Bryant's of the world to make plays in the areas where those guys no longer work. You know, you can have a battering ram down there. So I think it still works. I just think that maybe the body shape of the guy who's doing it looks a little bit different in today's NBA and like his skill set is a little bit different. But I maintain that a shack had ever gone to the gym, he might have like, shot over like a 53% for shooting so, right, you know, whatever, but I don't think he needed to in that in that iteration of the game, but I think it's very possible now and I just I want that guy still, because I think he's gonna make those two guys better.

Rayshawn Buchanan: 1:05:57

So in other words we need Yanis

Dave Clarke: 1:06:00

I mean that would be, that would be an ideal for I'm not saying we get prime Shaq or Yanis but but there's guys out there, you know these guys out there that I think like like the Myles Turner's of the world, I think that was just a very upsetting not getting him is like still sort of upsets me because I just think, yeah, you know, like the Jared Allen's of the world. You know, I don't need huge numbers from these guys. I just need like a little bit of playmaking presence down low so that they can we can play a little bit in and out ball. You know, what I think is I think that, to me, is where they look the best where they they go in and out. And they make plays. And I know, we harped on this early Brad Stevens sort of basketball but like I have seen those guys succeed in that kind of system. And now that we're now that they've developed into the kind of players that they you know, they're kind of the most mature version of themselves at this point. I'm not like athletic prime or anything, but like, then we can see what their games look like and they're, they're skewing in the right direction. I want to see them take it upon themselves to be the playmakers that I know that they can be and not necessarily have to rely on a system or running plays or making passes. And I think that's they sort of outgrew Brad and that way, you know where they were like, well, we want to be able to sort of like be the guys that can go figure it out on the on the on the floor. And I and I do think this coaching staff is sort of letting them do that a little bit more. And I think it might take a little patience but it doesn't take much for me to be optimistic about the Celtics you know, like I like I like when they play well. I still watch when they don't and it's very, it's some of those losses were just like, very upsetting to watch. But, you know, there's moments there's always moments I'm pretty much done with Marcus smart though. I hate to say it,

Rayshawn Buchanan: 1:07:33

he's actually played a low get a lot better, honestly, lately.

Dave Clarke: 1:07:37

His bad cop is like, is so frustrating to me that like,

Rayshawn Buchanan: 1:07:41

Yeah, but I think he's but I think what he's finally realized I look okay, if I'm not taking the shots, and I'm getting anything between five to 10 sets, which he's been doing lately lighter, that's the formula for them to be all successful, because he's the guy that's gonna get them into the offense. You know, it looks like his defense is back. So maybe it was a health thing like it and that that's, that's the biggest thing with him. So I'm in every now and he's gonna do what he did last night. But yet at last time, like every now that he's gonna have those moments where he gets 18 to 20 points he like, okay, cool. Um, but

Dave Clarke: 1:08:13

I could always see him as the kind of guy where like, in a place like I like Marcus smart in the foxhole, and a playoff series, you know what I mean? I like the idea of Marcus smart in a foxhole in a playoff series and the kind of guy that he is, it's just that when I haven't loved how he's been when things go wrong, I you know, I don't know if he's the guy to, like, really unite the team when things are going wrong. I think he's, he's a good kind of engine guy when things are going right. Um, but like, if he ever thinks he needs to pull you out of a situation like you're in for a long night, you know, and it's just like that. That's the kind of stuff that's like been a little bit tough for me and frustrating, but I do agree that his defenses look better lately. And like, that's what I want from it. That's all I really want from him is tick rib to play D you know,

Rayshawn Buchanan: 1:08:54

defense, and then you know, the the appropriate playmaking, but I will say I think the turning point for him. And yeah, I want to get into some trade deals and stuff before we get out of here. But, um, I think the it was, I think it was a game in Orlando last season, when, you know, Tim came to the podium and you know, Dad actionable and Marcus martyr said he was I looked like, I know how to fucking play basketball. Like, you know, I think that I think that was the moment there was like, Look, you are a teammate. You are a leader. You are You are awesome person, awesome player. But, you know, to say what you said about us publicly like that, that's not gonna work. We understand internally. You know, you do your part, I do my part to help contribute, you know, to contribute your wins and then we go from there. So I think from that moment on, I say he's been today I've been able to manage the next time they smack Miami down here. So they all um, you know, I think that was a turning point, man, man, you know, for some reason, you know, Marcus seems to listen so he may you dhoka morning he listened to Brad lately, so unless you see this Oh, yeah, I

Dave Clarke: 1:09:53

was gonna say Do you think it's the coaching staff? Like just getting them to make better decisions? Do you think that's what it is? Because if that's what it is, I could see it as being a more permanent thing.

Rayshawn Buchanan: 1:10:01

Yeah. When we they gave they gave him that contract. So I feel like he will be here. Yeah.

Dave Clarke: 1:10:06

Well, I know I mean, sure. He'll be here but I mean, like I can see his playing like this as a more permanent thing as opposed to

Rayshawn Buchanan: 1:10:12

under that's the case where business because that's that's that's really good for this but if it's just

Dave Clarke: 1:10:16

him if it's just him and what he feels like you know, trick or treat what he feels like at this given moment, then I don't know how sustainable it is. But if it is the coaching staff, and you think it's the coaching staff then great if he's listening to the coaches and he's playing the way they want to but because he was not fucking listening to Brad scenes at the end. He was the guy who was listening to Brad the least and none of them were listening to Brad but he was really not listened to like extra.

Rayshawn Buchanan: 1:10:39

Right, exactly, but all So obviously, you know, we're in February so that's tre season in the NBA. So, um, it's gonna happen probably right before or maybe after the all star break. So, um, you know, just the last thing we touched on before we talked about but

Dave Clarke: 1:10:56

early February, usually anywhere. Yeah, whatever. Either

Rayshawn Buchanan: 1:10:59

way it's approaching right. So what, um, awesome service you have in mind that you think you've given immediate impact?

Dave Clarke: 1:11:09

I don't know. I don't know who I want to make an immediate impact right now. I'm not really sure we need to be really making a trade at this point when we get all that money from House expiring stuff and is contracting it in the summer. I feel like let them play this out. The way that they're kind of currently constituted like I wouldn't mind a couple of smaller rules and like, you heard same thing about Schroeder Right. Like he's definitely going or gone already.

Rayshawn Buchanan: 1:11:32

I mean, I know I know that they're looking to get something uh, you know, back after, you know, I did trying to get something back from the new name that's been thrown around a lot has been Troy Brown Jr. from from Chicago.

Dave Clarke: 1:11:45

That'd be fine. I mean, that's nothing that's not that's nothing to write home about.

Rayshawn Buchanan: 1:11:48

You know, that's that's the that's not enough though. Like, now they talked about Norman Powell from Portland. Also in the deal. I said, now you're gonna get number Powell and the term Roger la you could get that you get both of those guys to come here. Like that. Now, now we can do something now. That's again, off the bench.

Dave Clarke: 1:12:07

You feel like we have to throw something else in? You think you'd have to throw some?

Rayshawn Buchanan: 1:12:10

I mean, hey, do you want to save me some of the late for a cool take them like See See you later? Like they were obviously shopping? Right? Yeah, of course. They have to be involved any deal today? They do? Probably. Um, you know, I think Romeo will flourish somewhere else. I really do. I just think that it just it just wasn't working or hasn't worked here.

Dave Clarke: 1:12:28

You don't you don't seem he'd be great on. He'd played really well on like the Hornets.

Rayshawn Buchanan: 1:12:33

Yeah, yeah. Actually. Yeah. He went on to become a Celtic self all obviously with all those guys that we had down there. Yeah, I think he'd be great gamble.

Dave Clarke: 1:12:42

And it contributions they asked for for their guard position is just like exactly what rodeo can do like off the bench for you. And I just think he played with the right guys. Yeah, and I just think it's like, he's not he's not like the province is fuckin city, you know, especially strictly basketball. It's like, if you're not a good fit, you're not a good fit. There's like nothing. It just is what it is. You know what I mean? I do. I agree. I think he's got still got a lot of potential. I've been done with them here in Boston for quite some time.

Rayshawn Buchanan: 1:13:09

Yes, yes. Well, I'm actually I know for me, obviously, Harrison Barnes has been, you know, he's been he's become the new Larry Fitzgerald. Remember, Larry, for Jarvis was to come to the Patriots for like, a million years and then never happened. Um, Harrison Barnes is becoming that. Oh, you know, I actually got a chance to meet him last week. In a town. Yeah. So yeah, I was out to USC. He was like, Yes, sir. I want to be like, hope to see you soon. But I couldn't say they're from the culture south. But I was. I was like, you know, cuz he sees a man.

Dave Clarke: 1:13:41

How do you like to stadium? And I would never try

Rayshawn Buchanan: 1:13:44

to recruit. I'm like, yeah, he's like, Oh, no, we need to do this. You could do that. And like, you know, you procrastinate, a little stuff like that. Whatever you want to do, Man, y'all you can well, you can achieve it right here. We got we got the best clams, whatever you want. That's the best crab shatter. Over to go. Yeah, it'll make a basketball 24/7

Unknown: 1:14:07

No distractions. No distractions.

Craig D'Alessandro: 1:14:10

Exactly. So you know,

Dave Clarke: 1:14:13

you know, you're calling in the wintertime and sometimes when they have some coat layers on and you can kind of convinced yourself but like it is what it is. Yeah. I like character. They've all got a lot of character that tell you what this is. Hey, what's on there?

Rayshawn Buchanan: 1:14:25

Yeah, exactly. A lot of credits rolling right. Harrison Barnes I said Norman Powell. Um, you know, obviously, even someone like Robert Shaw Holmes is also a Sacramento. I think he's someone that could be a really good fit here. Yeah, that'd be cool. Um, honestly, this is kind of out of the box name, but this name has been out there. Um, I said he's kind of calmed down so he would be able to help us actually is it's actually very muggy, either. JaVale McGee would be awesome here.

Dave Clarke: 1:15:08

I would love that. I would love that for obvious reasons.

Rayshawn Buchanan: 1:15:11

Yeah, you don't say I Listen, he's come a long way from the second a few days. Like I agree. And it's really really well, so. Um, I would I would love to have someone like him here in the city of tobacco Rob on 2%. But you need you need that type of guy. But yeah, who knows? Maybe they go get a search for it. Maybe they talk to Houston about getting to, um, Christian wood and Eric Gordon maybe are the

Dave Clarke: 1:15:35

No, I don't like Eric Gordon.

Rayshawn Buchanan: 1:15:37

Chris. Well, Abby, Aragorn is older but it's like you know, someone that can get you fishing. It's one When you know someone's struggling offensively, that's

Dave Clarke: 1:15:44

to say that's more of the same stuff to kind of trash. We've been bringing off the bench for the last few years. Some of them don't we think yeah, I

Rayshawn Buchanan: 1:15:49

mean, that's that's that's that could that could be true. But I mean, if you're if you're attaching Christian weight to that, who What are you talking to you? So you made your point about Horford saying that you know, losing them from time to warfare like we will see a lot more Christian wood on the floor because you're gonna make a shoot the three he's gonna rebound really well,

Dave Clarke: 1:16:07

which is contract lifts like Dino, three years 42

Rayshawn Buchanan: 1:16:11

mil. So basically, it'd be the same numbers out next year, so you could do it, you know, say so. If you want a nice Lankford for those who like I do it? You know, I'd be right there a little bit with a sign saying you

Craig D'Alessandro: 1:16:23

gotta stay on that.

Dave Clarke: 1:16:24

Don't you have to save money on that or for contract? You have to write like that. So

Rayshawn Buchanan: 1:16:27

yeah, you got we got it. Eventually. You know, we I know we want the sister on the show. Um, you know that that is a debt it's a change but we got

Dave Clarke: 1:16:36

all the fucking women a boss. Yeah, save me, Craig.

Rayshawn Buchanan: 1:16:43

This is his business.

Dave Clarke: 1:16:46

It saved me. Definitely cut that part out. I didn't even mean it. I was just being an LA snob.

Rayshawn Buchanan: 1:16:52

Sop it's all good. So we'll call to on that before we get in any more trouble. So for for DK says I'm Hollywood Ray. This has been another episode of mission point and we'll see you next time. Peace.