New England Championship ReWrap - 2004 Boston Red Sox Part 1: 86-Years of Misery
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On this episode, we present Part 1 of a 2 part Series Reaping the Curse Breaking 2004 Boston Red Sox.
In This 2-Part Series, We’ll Discuss how the Red Sox endured 86-years of misery, from the 1967 Impossible Dream, to Bill Buckner’s error and Morgan’s Magic, to having their hearts broken once again by the Yankees in 1999, and 2003.
This is The New England Championship ReWrap: 86-years of Misery
Hosts: Bob Kelly, Michael Marcangelo, Joe Malkin, Rayshawn Buchanan
Producer: Craig D'Alessandro
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Welcome into missing the point I'm your host Michael Mark Angelo. Today I am joined by the real BK Bob Kelly Broadway Joe Malkin and DK sizzle Dave Clark and today, Wednesday, June 2 ton of news comes out of out of Boston if you're a Celtics fan, and we're here to talk about it all. I mean, you won't even know that there was a game last night. But today, Brad Stevens stepped down as head coach of the Boston Celtics. Danny Ainge is relieved of his duties as the vice president of basketball operations. He retired quote, unquote, and Brad Stevens will be filling that role to talk about this and everything that has been going on and maybe the things that will go on. I will kick it over to DK sisal first. Yeah, Dave, we've been talking about this all year that they need the big change. Was this the change that you thought was coming? Now? I
Dave Clarke:don't think any of us expected this. I mean, this just came out of nowhere today, like there was definitely no like inklings of this. Maybe you would thought like a full firing, you know, after this season, like maybe would have been one of my earlier guesses before this happening. But I've, you know, I heard about it this morning from you guys. And I rolled it around in my head, and I think it's a good thing. I think that's where I came out on it because I think I think we've talked a lot about nobody wanting to trade with Danny Ainge. And I think that that's the truth. And I think you saw that last couple of free agencies. I think people are gonna want to trade with Brad Stevens. He's got a nice face. And and I think he can call people up and and actually work, maybe work out some deals because he doesn't have this reputation proceeding him of fleecing every team that he comes up against. And I mean, the the irony, I don't know about you guys, but the irony was not lost on me of just getting absolutely spanked by the Brooklyn Nets, having been bragging about fleecing them for the past five or six years, however long it's Beckham remember how long it's been. And then not winning a championship in that time and then losing to them pretty embarrassingly, and then having like, like, three Hall of Famers on their team, yeah. So did we flee from that deal? Yeah, I mean, kinda at the time. Still, it still counts. You know, Jayson Tatum still on the team, and he's like the future. But yeah, I think it's a good thing. Overall. I think Danny Ainge, it was time.
Michael Marcangelo:Bobby as someone who's been you know, you and I have talked on the show in OFF AIR about they needed they needed a complete restructure from top to bottom, Brad Stevens out his coach, Danny Ainge, how does GM you got what you wish for? But did you ever expect that Brad Stevens would be the GM going into next season?
Rob Kelly:No. I actually googled this morning when I heard Danny was stepping down like gems around the league just so I could get an idea of who like we'd be looking at I was thinking I can never pronounce his name maaser masuri. from Toronto. I was thinking, like, Sam Presti from Oklahoma, Sam Presti from Oklahoma City I there was there was all these different guys I was looking at and all of a sudden, it just the news kept trickle and kept coming in. Brad Stevens is going to be taken over. And honestly, what it comes down to is I really think DK did hit the nail on the head is listen, Danny Ainge has been the Boston Celtics GM since 2004. You don't see that anymore. You know what I mean? You don't see guys that are the general manager of a team for that long anymore, especially with the continued success that he's had. It's unbelievable that he's been successful for this long. I just think it was time for a new face, a new guy in that front office. And to be honest, I think one portion of why Brad Stevens is now the GM is because the Celtics are kind of Hi, Tim. And I think that did have something to do with it. I also think that Brad Stevens style of play, and the way he likes to play basketball, I think could be very successful. So I'm really excited to see the kind of team he tries to put together. He has a really tough job ahead of them. But I'm really pumped to see the kind of team he tries to put together. Is it a risk 100%. But it almost reminds you like to do Epstein type gn move because it's like this young guy. He thinks outside the box. He knows basketball better than anyone else. So let's see what he can do you know what I mean? Like, I don't hate it. It definitely reach definitely not what I expected. At the end of the day, I'm just happy we're moving forward to a new era of Celtics basketball, because I'm done with this last five years. And Joe, you know,
Michael Marcangelo:you've been someone on the show that, you know, obviously you have your opinions on like what you think should happen, but it's always been like, Let's wait and see. Right? And today. There's no I can't imagine that you were waiting to see this. So when you're what were your initial reactions when you saw the news? It's so interesting, because this is what
Joe Malkin:excuse me, the world is still such a small place. Even in terms of sports, because Dave's like oh, I never saw this coming. This was kind of floated out there by some Smaller sources. And but it's still it was still a surprise. So I'm gonna I'm gonna kind of err on the side of caution here and I don't want to blow up deep spot because he's absolutely right like this, this was not expected. And as you guys are talking and going through this it's it's so interesting because I was always under the impression that there was some kind of a rift somewhere in the organization. And I always thought it was between Danny and Brad. And what I mean by that is Brad has his style and Danny has his and Danny would often, as Mike says, lay his Speaker of the House deck on the table and make the decisions that he wanted to make and basically told Brad, deal with it. This is what you have. I think the end and I hate to bring him up because you guys know he lives in my head renfree the end of the Danny Ainge era began the day that he traded for Kyrie Irving. That's my that's my personal opinion. I believe that that's what happened because I believe that Kyrie Irving had an effect on the young guys on this roster. And that's where a lot of the I don't want to say that Brad Stevens lost his team. But I think that that's where a lot of the, he's not a superstar head coach style head coach really came to the forefront when guys didn't really seem to want to play for him, but never came out and said it. So when this happens, Danny like, like Bobby said, Danny has been here since 2004 is the general manager. With Doc Rivers, he was an incredible GM, incredible GM. When Brad Stevens first got here, above average, the last two years below average. And sometimes in a relationship we've talked about this before, sometimes just has to end. And this was the point where it needed to end. The part I was surprised about is the same part that Bobby surprised about that, that Brad Stevens was named president of basketball operations or will be I don't even know what what the status of this whole
Rob Kelly:they had the press conference, then they have a professional it's it's it's happening,
Joe Malkin:maybe I just don't want to accept it. Because I really wanted to see Brad Stevens play bull put on both hats, I really wanted to see him recruit and draft and sign the free agents that he wanted to build his team, all our Bill Belichick and reason why I think Bobby, he's gonna be really good in this GM role to kind of parlay off of what you said, he's gonna be good, because he's a recruiter, he, he turned Butler into a, I don't want to say a national powerhouse, but he put them on the national stage. for multiple years for a good period of time in the realm of college basketball, he put Butler on the map. And he did a great job at that. So he's a recruiter, he's a talent evaluator. And the nice thing about college is, you don't have to have the best players in order to be successful. We've seen that in the past. That's one of those sports where if you can get the right chemistry and the right flow and the right players, you can do well. But this is gonna be a great role for him. It's kind of weird, because you think of a coach stepping away at such a young age stepping away from being a coach. So how long is it going to happen? Is he going to be the GM of the Boston Celtics for 17 years as long as Danny ones? I don't know. But this was such a surprise. I'm, I'm happy with the decision, because something needed to happen. And I think this is the most civil way to do it. I think it makes the most sense. And I think at the end of the day, everybody's gonna be happy.
Michael Marcangelo:For Danny Ainge, his body of work right? I think before we talk about like all the huge impact that today had, I think you need to look back at it right 18 seasons as the GM of the Boston Celtics 15 playoff appearances, seven Eastern Conference Finals, two final appearances in the championship. So when you take that and you know, yeah, he did swindle the nets. Right. We get that but I think the jury's actually still out on who won. Like what happened after that, because really, we have not won a championship since then. The jury's not out anymore. They just smoked us.
Rob Kelly:Yeah. I don't know if those are connected that way. Can we do I don't know. I don't. I don't I still think we fleeced them guys,
Dave Clarke:we fleeced them. But we have a we freestyle a draft picks. We play some draft picks, and most of the draft picks we drafted terribly
Rob Kelly:but but the thing is, is like we did we traded three washed up guys for literally our two cornerstones of our franchise going forward right now. So yes, yes. The nets are better than us right now. But I I just don't see the connection to the trade.
Dave Clarke:While they took I'll tell I can explain. I'll tell you exactly the connection to the trade the Brooklyn Nets took took back contracts office for aging stars. We went and built a team around younger guys, that the contract space eventually went away when those all those guys retired as they knew they were going to, they use that contract space and the kind of brand that developed in Brooklyn because like they are kind of cool. You know what I mean? Like there is sort of like a cool hip hop thing about them existing as a Brooklyn team. They're a lot cooler than the New Jersey Nets where I'll tell you that much. And like, just as a franchise, and like Jay Z's involved, and it's like, Yeah, let's go play there. You can go play in New York without having to play for the Knicks. And the Knicks are obvious. Because the Knicks run terribly. Nobody wants to go there. It's exactly what happened with KD. And they had all this this cap space. And they went and got superstars, you know, and like, I don't know if we can build that way. Like, I don't know, if you can criticize Danny to the point of like you, you should have done something different because like, I'd like I think I see your point there. Because it's like, you can't really do that in Boston, you're not going to get Katie and Kyrie and all those guys to come play here at the same time, it's just not going to happen. So because nobody really wants to come and play in Boston, when it comes to basketball, unfortunately, like I'm just, you know, just just on brand recognition alone, and like the stuff Carrie was saying the other night, and it's not hugely off base, you know, it's like we don't have a great reputation for treating our players well and like not being like dumb, racist. And then of course, he says that in some moron, I know is one person, but it's representative some moron throws a water bottle at him. And it's like, what are you doing? Like that's a it's just completely feeding his point. But anyway, whatever. I digress there, I just think it's like that to draw the line. You can draw the line and they're they're better earlier. You know what I mean? Like?
Michael Marcangelo:I my question to DK originally was, when you assess Danny Ainge, his body of work? Was he a success? Was he was he a successful General Manager, the Boston Celtics over 18 years?
Dave Clarke:Yeah, of course, he was he brought a championship.
Rob Kelly:Yeah. And so like, I know, everything is always recency bias. And like everyone's always thinking about right now and like what's happening, but like, everyone needs to remember what this guy actually did like he took. So he took a team that was one of the worst basketball teams I've ever watched in my life, traded everyone and brought us a championship. All right, he brought us kg he brought us Ray out, he brought us a championship. Then he took, but then he took that team and traded them, right. We thought we were going to be rebuilding. But somehow this guy builds up this team that competes every single year. Yes, they ended up as like the worst one seed in the history of the NBA. But like all those teams exceeded expectations. Why? Because Danny put them together. Well, he made trades at the right time bringing in Isaiah Thomas was the best part of that team. And when you look back at that carry trade, listen, every single one of us does that 100 out of 100 it was Jake, but it was Jay Crowder washed up Isaiah Thomas, in our first round pick for one of the best point guards in the league. And he was promising he was going to stay. So it's like, yes, that did focus. And that was the beginning of the end. But like the decisions up until 2019 2019 is where everything fell apart. And it's just that no matter what he did was a couple of
Dave Clarke:key it's a couple of key draft mistakes is the thing it's like it's like a few key recent draft mistakes and and a little bit of a tendency to go for defensively minded guards, like one too many times. You know, it's like when you look at the free agency now it's like it's still pretty repairable. Oh, it's like Marcus smart he drafted Marcus smart he I don't I love Marcus. Marcus isn't as good as I want him to be. This is basically the full version of Marcus smart now and like he's become this, which is good, but not like what he could have what I thought maybe he could have what his ceiling was originally. So like that changes that you know, like something changes there. Danny's had a more successful last few years. You know, the Lankford and the grant Williams is of the world like I don't know if you knew that grant Williams is going to be as big of a bust as he was. I don't think anyone that I think at the very beginning. It was like, Oh, I think he's got size for the position, blah, blah, blah, like those are the conversations we're having. So a couple of those drafts go a little bit differently. You're looking at Danny Ainge in a different way.
Joe Malkin:Sure. And that's and that's part of the that's part of the issue, right is like that, those things are gonna go that way. There's personalities that are going to clash. There's things that are going to happen. He made some questionable decisions. He didn't go out of the trade deadline this year, and get a big man, which was a mistake. I think that could have helped in the long run.
Dave Clarke:I agree. And I you know what, you were absolutely right about that. When you said, when we were who we going for in Indiana was like, yeah, we're going for Myles Turner, right? And it was like and do you actually hit the nail on the head about that where it was like Danny's gonna get greedy in that trade? And then he's gonna he's gonna fuck up that Myles Turner training with Chris Thompson who had like one good game in the playoffs on the offensive boards but like whatever. You know what I mean? Like if we if we had if we had been able to get Myles Turner, our whole seasons different I think there's
Joe Malkin:so here I'm gonna hijack the question here, Mike from me and I'm gonna cut Dave off but just Brad Stevens make that trade, you know, like, like, let's play that game right now does Brad Stevens make that trade with Indiana with Gordon Hayward? So this is where I think it's that's what mark the end of the relationship is the fact that Danny Danny was great to answer your question from before Mike that you know, these guys really hit the nail on the head and I'm gonna revisit, he was great. He was incredible. He like Bobby said he brought in three of the best we he had his Cornerstone piece in Paul Pierce, and I'm calling him a cornerstone because he was here. He knew Boston he had already built a legacy here. And then he goes out and brings in these two guys that are incredible basketball players and two of the best in the league and what they do individually. They build a team around that. I mean, they brought him as john Rondo Say what you want about Rondo he was a key part of that champion. Take them or leave them, but he's still good. He's still good. He's He's consistent. I'm
Dave Clarke:Rajon Rondo is one of the funnest players to lie to ever.
Joe Malkin:Oh, absolutely. And a young Rajon Rondo with with those three guys in Boston in 2008. It made for such a fun team to watch. Dan Danny and Danny Ainge. I hate I hate to say this one we we have a friend of the show who is a former gm of the of the Boston Celtics, but Danny Ainge has me. He's he's right up there with the top and top three, maybe the top two, GM is all time and Boston Celtics history. I mean, he's, he he did what he needed to do in a very tough time. It's not easy to win in this league.
Dave Clarke:I agree that Danny Ainge was great. I do agree that Danny Ainge is great and like, and I also do agree it was time for a change. I mean, I made that point, the very start, but I do disagree with the kind of undercurrent you guys have been poking out for the show so far, which is that Brad Stevens, I even think you might have come right out and said Joe, Brad Stevens didn't have anyone in here like Brad Stevens, his identity was stamped all over this team for the past for since he got here, basically, he went he got Gordon Hayward? That's the most obvious Brad Stevens pickup in the history of it. That's the most that's the most directly, but like that, but like that was the Hayward was word Stevens's guy than anyone had been anyone's guy since like Dunkin and, and, and pop, you know, so it's like, Yeah, he got his people like, and he's been playing this position as basketball thing he's been. He's been, you know, basically always playing tiny, tiny, tiny men at the five position. And it's like, that's Brad Stevens. That's Brad. That's what Brad Stevens wanted to do. Danny Ainge is flexible of the kind of basketball he can play, the 2018 that he built is very, very different than it's currently currently constituted, and how we play. And I think what you're seeing is, you're going to see a lot more of the same. And that in that sense, you know, it's not going to be a revolution, I really do. I strongly feel Danny was making his best effort to go and get the players that his head coach wanted to build the kind of basketball team that he was, like, able to build and I, I think Brad Stevens is a fault for a lot of the stupid things that have happened in the past few years. So
Joe Malkin:I don't I don't disagree. I don't disagree. Because I think that's why ultimately, as you mentioned, the undertone of this so I want to kind of tie up that loose end of I think that's exactly why what happened today happened. There's a reason why they're looking for a new head coach, not a new General Manager. So I agree with DK I 100%. There was there was faults there obviously paying him more than what Indiana was gonna offer him because he didn't leave and i think i think they knew that this was coming. That was the biggest rumor of the of
Dave Clarke:the end of the regular season was was was Brad's going to Indiana. You know, now he's the GM.
Joe Malkin:Why he didn't stay he's obviously now making more than what Indiana was gonna pay him. He's probably going to sign another extension before that before even he gets to two years left on his current five year deal, because he's gonna I mean, I don't know if they're gonna keep him on his head coach, contract anyway, I don't know how that's gonna work out. They said they're definitely gonna restrict idea for why but we're seeing that because they want to bring in a head coach that is going to either mesh with him better or be able to cut down the mistakes that you're talking about. I agree. I 100% agree with you. I don't like that he's leaving the head coach role but after what you just said, I'm can I'm convinced this was absolutely 100% the right move and I commend with Groesbeck for doing it
Rob Kelly:Yeah. When you when you think about Brad Stevens. And so when when you hear all the rumors of why he wanted to step down as head coach because he was just burnt out after after the bubble last year and this year. Listen, this has been if you think about Brad Stevens, four year stretch right now, this has been just like the most exhausting, four years of Basketball everything about the year. So we go to the Eastern Conference Finals get smoked by the Cavs but that year the senior it sister died like that team was so emotional that team was amazing a just because of how much emotion was behind it the next year, all these expectations Kyrie comes in that should just go haywire. His guy Hayward breaks his ankle. You know what I mean? Like, everything just went wrong that entire season. The next year, we go to the Eastern Conference Finals. Again, we have to go through the bubble COVID like, and then this year to see his team not responding to him in that way. Listen, I don't know if you guys have ever been in a room where people like you think you're the leader and you think you can do things and people just aren't responding to you. But that is one of the most frustrating and exhausting experiences that you can go through. So I just feel like it was time for him to step down. But I think the Celtics just have this belief and love for Brad Stevens for some reason. And it is because of that basketball knowledge is what it comes down to. But like I don't I don't blame him for being exhausted a just a info at the right time.
Michael Marcangelo:Well, his experiences as a coach, you know, as someone who's lost the room, does anybody here like worried about that he's gonna look for players that will be resistant to doing the things that he that he saw his players do to him?
Joe Malkin:No, but I think he's gonna he's gonna take the players that are there now that are he sees as an issue and trade them. I mean, I don't think kemba plays another minute for this team. I don't think Margo smart plays in other ways. Where's
Dave Clarke:Kevin gonna go? The cameras on his fuckin Kim? Kim? Yeah, no one's taking him he's got he's got the grossest contract. For what for his output right now. No,
Joe Malkin:we're gonna have to find out what the new GM that didn't sign his original contract has to say about
Rob Kelly:Well, yeah, so so that reminds us of so that's Joe. You said earlier the Kyrie was the downfall. To me. The downfall was the 2019 offseason where we went into that draft with three draft picks. We traded Matthias Seibel who who is who is Marcus smart 2.0 is even better because he can actually shoot the ball sometimes, which I guess kind of sad. So we use Marcus smart to point out so we trade we trade him to go back and pick Romeo Langford and Carson Edwards. We went into that draft with three I was
Dave Clarke:that was the most that was the closest draft.
Rob Kelly:discussing how bad that draft was not only that, but we lose, Kyrie and then we do the kemba Walker signing and honestly, the kemba Walker signing to me is the biggest mistake Danny made. Now we all wanted him know like I know, I know. Listen, listen. 100% was because listen, if Charlotte didn't want him, so so that just tells me that that Danny knew that he had to go get someone he knew he had to get someone and let's now we're stuck with it. And those knee issues were very obvious at the time. You know what I mean? Like he hasn't come from day one. I guess that first season wasn't bad, but since the first the first playoff season. I don't know man. It just seems like that's the biggest mistake he made as the GM that entire offseason was the downfall
Dave Clarke:that was totally remote. Don't you remember that? Don't you remember that the mythos of kemba coming where it was just like it was like to clear the fart in the room. That was Kyrie Irving like it like him coming in. He was like, we basically just went out the anti Kyrie to try to like sage, the locker room a little bit of his like shitty energy. And like, I think that I was happy about it at the time, because I think we all love kemba because like regionally easy you Congo I think we all have where we were all in the prime of our lives when kemba Walker was when kemba Walker was like doing his thing at UConn and like, everybody remembers that, you know, and he was this offensive threat. And he was a veteran. And there was all this upside to him if if he could get the the injury sorted out, but I remember us having the conversation of like, we you never want a weird injury. You never want to like well, we don't have all the info on it. And we're not getting all the right you know, because I think that the Celtics for like, I think this other show like I bet we have better medical people in Charlotte, we can figure it out. And I think that's a completely fair. I think that's a completely fair thing to go for, you know, and one point I would just make one point about Brad Stevens, by the way, I think his agents really smart because I bet his agent leaked that Indiana rumor to in order to like, oh, you're probably already in negotiations with the Celtics, but this doesn't happen overnight. This is going on all year. Maybe Brad lost the room because he was pulled in two different directions and they always knew the season was going to be a wash because they'd like to currently constitution constitute contract situations. And I'd like to add Avery Bradley is available as a free agent, this offseason, bring him back on
Rob Kelly:or bring back
Dave Clarke:the trademark is smart for some actual value because I think he actually would offer some value. I do know I really do. I think that there's a there's a prevailing sense of everybody needs a market smart in it, but my my addition to that idiom was at your every breath We'll do like I if you want a defensive guard that can pay Avery Bradley like $5 million and Marcus smarts on 50 or some shit it's like pay every breath every rally $5 million and he's you're locked down to guard great it was it worked out great before so why not you know and then he's just kind of devalued himself because he hasn't been playing that well but like you know the Brad system gets a lot out of every Bradley so bring them on back bring them back plug them right in there that to position. I know this is crazy bear with me. Lonzo ball is available
Joe Malkin:I don't want to ball brother within 100 miles of TD gamble
Dave Clarke:I said that same shit about the mellow and the mellow is gonna be the best point guard in the NBA like
Joe Malkin:too good for him cuz I don't want him anywhere near
Dave Clarke:you. Do we have a Kardashian in the in the in the ranks right now? I don't know what
Joe Malkin:I took. It took me a while to realize that and I forgot that Tristan Thompson,
Dave Clarke:does he exactly you forgot because it doesn't matter. What matters is what have I won
Rob Kelly:or you know, I'll tell you as you'd like to come with it. So he does play the brand of basketball that Boston loves man. If he was in Boston, I guarantee you Boston will gravitate toward him so fast because he plays he's a defensive point guard that he shoots at the right time most of the time. And also when it comes to locking down the opposing point guard like 100% of the time, every night, you can count on him.
Dave Clarke:I also think he's a very different I also think he's very different kind of playmaker than kemba Walker, but I think that kemba Walker, his current level of output, he's a better one. Because he he's he's okay, he doesn't dribble as much he doesn't go to the to the board to the rim as much. But he's a great passer. He's a really great passer of the ball. And like we need to get our wings in. We need to get our wings and we need to facilitate them and we need to have those two guys score. So that's that I think that's it. Think of it just picture that team in your head. It's beautiful Bradley at the to Marcus is gone. And then just go and get a fucking center. Just go get a center. Just go get someone who plays the fucking five. That's good. Not Tristan Thompson. Stop trying to like go like it's like, here's your here's your miles garrets and here's your miles Garrett's from wish calm. You know what I mean? I'm sorry, Myles Turner. And here's your miles Turner from Swiss from wish calm. It's like, I don't want Tristan Thompson on the team anymore. Get rid of him. Yeah, you've there's a ton you can do in this free agency. If you do the right thing if you get the right guys in the right positions. And like there's cool guys available to like restructure that like the complete identity this team. Maybe Brad can do it.
Michael Marcangelo:If I could just reset just really quickly before we start talking about what they what they could do this season in terms of players and coaches. I want to just ask a question about the legacy of Brad Stevens as a coach in Boston, right. So he's been here eight years, his coaching record in the regular season is 354 and 282. Right? His playoff record is 38 and 40. So knowing what he knows what he took over, right knowing when he came into an inherited job, I'll start with you. What would What do you think the lasting legacy of Brad's team is as the coach will be as the Boston Celtics.
Joe Malkin:It's it's an above average legacy. A little fun fact about the move. But before I go on, Danny Ainge was the president of basketball operations for the Boston Celtics for 18 years, he was 44 when he took over the job. Brad Stevens is 44 years old. So
Dave Clarke:what's his sign? Well,
Joe Malkin:I don't know. He walks on the beach and sitting on the same side of a booth. His lasting legacy is, is a good one. And there's a reason why he's still here, Mike. I mean, he's, he's obviously done enough to show the Celtics brass that he can. Well, now he is a self Express, right? That he can that he can do the job. And being a general manager, as we know, Mike, as you and I know, when we again, second time, I'm going to bring up Bill Belichick. As we know, those are two very, very different jobs. So I think, I think, as a general manager, it'll obviously take I think, three to four years to see what happens. But as a coach, I mean, he came in and rebuilt, and he brought us Jayson Tatum and Jaylen Brown. Marcus smart again, you know, he's been serviceable. He's been a good player. We like what Mark is Mark and do we just don't want him to hook up as many threes? I mean, as many good things as, as they have both done Danny and Brad, they both made their mistakes. Dave's right he's gonna he's probably going to be remembered for a lot of the mistakes that he did make. And that's okay. Because he's his playoff record isn't great. But how many Eastern Conference Finals did they go to with him as head coach?
Dave Clarke:Doesn't matter. Eastern Conference. We don't count Eastern Conference Finals in Boston.
Rob Kelly:Yes, but we should Oh man, we should we need
Joe Malkin:Because over the last 18 years, Mike Mike brought it up with the with the ring and the amount of Eastern Conference Finals and finals appearances they've made. It's not easy to do in this league. It's really it's really nice.
Rob Kelly:I can I can tell you one thing. I counted on the Celtics since Brad Stevens has been here since Danny has been here to be my most consistent teams that I watch. They were my team that every single year I knew that they were going to be in content like I know that and listen, I'm that's why I'm separating that I knew that they were the team that was going to do that for me because we had Brad and because we had Danny, and I knew that these guys were going to do this. That's why like, I don't wasn't this this last year and a half was a fucking disaster from it was just a dumpster fire from day one. Before that. There's there's nothing that he did that like yes, I had like nitpicks here and there. But like everything he did worked like a charm for 1516 years. He brought us a championship. He brought us one of the most storied teams
Joe Malkin:in you're asking about Mike's asking about Brad as a head coach up, Danny, you know, so yeah,
Michael Marcangelo:the salary said made 72 Conference Finals under the age of 18 years, but under Brad, I think it's been what four total for
Rob Kelly:Well, it's still Alright, so so we're talking about Brad, that's fine. He brought in under me. He brought so either way, same thing. He brought an underachieving team, to the conference finals. Sure. Yeah. The team after Kyrie was hurt Eastern Conference Finals. I didn't have to carry left. We had to rebuild everything. Eastern Conference Finals. Yeah, he didn't get to the NBA Finals. But why'd Why does that make him an unsuccessful head coach? So that's what I would always ask.
Michael Marcangelo:Well, so So Dave, I guess to kind of piggyback off of that, do the positives outweigh the negatives when you look back at Brad Stevens as a head coach in Boston?
Dave Clarke:I hope I hope did when it's over. When it's all said and done. We're still out. He was a better No, I mean, his career in general. I hope we're saying he was a better GM than he was head coach because we don't count Eastern Conference Finals here in in Boston, in basketball city, Boston, we just don't, it's championships are nothing we've got more than anybody. And like we're I refuse to lower the standard of this franchise. It's okay, fine. It's time whatever. We've got more than just a tad though. We've got more than literally everybody except for the Lakers. And, you know, at the end of the day, I've refused to lower the standard of the franchise in order to like rise, Brad Stevens is stock up as a head coach, did he succeed as a coach of the Celtics? No, he didn't win the championship. And but I don't think that this move is terrible. You know, I mean, like, maybe they're the thinking is that Brad is a great guy for a basketball culture. You know, I could get behind that. Maybe he's got a great eye for talent. I could get behind that maybe he's got a great eye for basketball tactics. I could get behind that. Or maybe he's not the greatest man manager, the greatest player manager in history and maybe he's not you know, maybe if you get a Sam Cassell in there, Chauncey Billups. They elevate it. This has to be because they think that Brad has taken Jayson Tatum and to a lesser extent, Jaylen brown to the farthest place he can take them. And it because that's their the franchise like they're the franchise for the next 10 years. So if that has to be the thing, but they're probably also thinking we don't want to lose Brad Stevens, and his basketball mind and the things that he can bring to the table. And Danny's about done anyway, I bet like this, Danny didn't, I pretty sure that Danny didn't get forced out. You know, I think if he wanted to stay, he probably could have stayed. But we'll never know that. That's just, that's just information that's never going to come out. So you try and get the best of both worlds. Now, the most crucial thing is, who are you going to go get to take Jayson Tatum. And, you know, again, to a slightly lesser extent Jaylen brown to the next level. Because at the end of the day, I always say it's like it doesn't really matter what you put around your best players, you need your best players to be that good, you know, and I think that if you elevate those two guys's games, and I think like, I mean, if you had Jaylen in that last series, like maybe we went to you know, he makes the difference in one of the games. So you know, you start to elevate those guys you need to Sam Cassell summer Chauncey Billups? You know one of those guys,
Michael Marcangelo:before we move on to the to the to the next head coach, I just wanna give you my take on as a host not supposed to do that. I think that Brad I think Brad Stevens and Danny Ainge, were both fired. I think that Danny Ainge, he was I think he hit me after his heart attack a couple years ago. Sure, go get a little tough. He was questioning things. But after the performance of this team and the way that he built around it, he was let go, and they realized that they had so much money tied up into Brad, why pay him to go be a coach elsewhere? Like why not just move into a role? He's been pretty buddy, buddy with So I think that what we've seen here, they both in relieved of their duties, only one is still with the organization.
Dave Clarke:I hope that's not the case, because that's really stupid if they did did it that way, because now you would, that's, that's how you create a destroyed disgruntled workforce. You know, like if Danny if Brad Stevens, I wanted to still be the head coach and they're like, well, the most will do for you is promote you out because like you get to fail up now. But like, that's gonna be so bad for whoever they bring in as the head coach. So I really hope that that's not the case. I mean, the theory is, is that he's going to be picking the coach, right? If you don't trust him to be the coach, why would you trust him to pick the coach? Yeah, I'm
Joe Malkin:with Dave on that. Like, I can't I can't agree with you on that part. I think if I think Danny was relieved of his duties, I think, Brad, I don't think he was relieved. I think that this was in the works. And this was a conversation that had been going on for majority of the season. And I think Danny is really stepping away. But it's a mutual stepping away of this is how far we've come. I think with this pairings as far as we're gonna go, they both offer something positive. And now Brandon Newquay, you're a recruiter, you are a talent evaluator. And there's a big difference between guys that are 2526 then guys that are 2122. And I think, to piggyback off Dave again, that's that's where he's gotten Jaylen brown and Jayson Tatum is he's gotten them past the, the college years, and now they're full fledged NBA players. And I think this is gonna be a great move for them. But I'm with Dave, like, you can't, you can't relieve a guy of those duties and then sign up for GM.
Michael Marcangelo:I just want to say I Danny Ainge will either be an assistant GM to the Utah Jazz or consultant with the Utah Jazz by the by the time that the season rolls around next year, so he's not retiring. He's not he was relieved. I do believe that, that Yeah, maybe I think based on the performance in the playoffs last year, against the heat, and then what they saw this year, yeah, a lot of odds were stacked against him, I get that. But we've all been saying and we're not the only ones every every media pundits out there has been saying that Brad's lost a room, but he still owed a ton of money. So let's, let's try the hand that this has been pretty buddy, buddy with Danny, that's just my I could be wrong. It's how I feel good. Bobby,
Rob Kelly:I'm gonna I'm gonna meet you in the middle. I do. I do kind of agree with you there. But I think it was more of was a wick wick runs his team from top to bottom, and he's gonna do what he wants to do. And I think he brought them in a room and was just kind of like, Listen, guys, we got to figure this shit out. Because this isn't working. And if we don't come out of here with a resolution, then no one's coming out of here. And it was kind of he, he presented them with the situation. Brad saw it, I do kind of agree with you not to the point where he was forced out where they told him listen, you can't be the coach anymore. But it was we need to make some changes. And and I do think that it has a lot to do with the money. I will agree with you that too, I do think has a lot to do with the money they owe to Brad Stevens, because they just gave him the extension last year. Right. Like it's at the very beginning of the succession.
Dave Clarke:We did say like, we have it on good authority on this podcast, like actual good authority that from people that do know, and it's been said on this show, that if one goes both go. And I think that i think that that played a part. You know, I think I think that that might have just been the only way around if one goes both go? Yeah, was to promote Brad Stevens make him an offer he couldn't refuse, you know, and and keep them around. Because I still think that despite the last two seasons, I think it became clear whether it was his agent or whoever, putting it out there that he was still a desired commodity. And it would have been silly, I think for us to trade the stock that we had for him because there was like it wasn't too long ago where they were at the all star game. And everybody was like, Oh, the general consensus here is everybody. All these players really want to play for Brad Stevens like Brad Stevens, Brad Stevens, like that was he was like the new kid on the block. I get that. It's like kind of the sophomore year now. Like he's not the hottest thing in the world anymore. But he could get a job pretty much anywhere still. Yeah. So yeah, you keep them for that reason, you know, you keep them because he's worth something.
Rob Kelly:And when you when you think about what you said earlier about how, you know, you can't run an organization like that, like he can't promote our failed or promote, you know, me or what was the like, fail? fail up? Yeah, whatever. You can't do that. I also think that you can't, you can't completely gut the organization. When you're trying to keep that same culture, you're trying to keep the same team. And if both of these guys went they just fired cleaned house completely. I think assess the team back a little bit further, as if they keep right around and bring them into the GM office have that familiar face, have that familiar voice for Tatum and Brown for them to go to have you know, input about the team, things like that. So I do think in the end, it did come down to like a organizational decision. Like, listen, you can't be the head coach, but we love you. We need you here. And we also owe you I got that money.
Michael Marcangelo:So what do they do next? Now moving on, you know, they're going to go full fledged into into, like coaching vacancy. We've we've seen all of the reports, just like the rest of you out there that you know that they're their reports for Jason Kidd. We've even floated the idea we've been talking a ton about Sam Cassell. I love that pic, by the way. And there are there are a bunch of others. So I'm going to put my ID out there first, and now we I can't but you guys discuss it. I think that you know, a friend of a friend of the show. So Mr. Brian Scalabrini. Abby Chin's best friend show notes. Correct. There you go, is he thinks that Kara Lawson should be in consideration to be the next coach of the Boston Celtics, Kara Lawson was an assistant coach for the Boston Celtics in the 2019 2020 season, she's actually the one that that was working with Marcus Smart to improve his shooting ability. And now she is the head coach of the I believe of the Duke Blue Devils women's basketball team. So and the reason why I tend to agree with scowl I think he knows thanks is he's he's tapped into the organization. But also, he said that not only This isn't like she's really good for a female. She commanded the floor with all of them while she was there, and they already know her. Right so that you wouldn't be bringing anyone in that they don't know. So I think that that's, that's my dark horse pick. So decal, I'll go with you like what type of coaching and get that you go for and who do you think it's going to be?
Dave Clarke:I don't think that's totally out of the realm of possibility. I could see Brad Stevens picking that pick picking Carolinas as a head coach,
Rob Kelly:I think there was no be off. Yeah,
Dave Clarke:she's really cool. I think. I think that we have a strong enough culture in Boston to hopefully, Wade past the circus trick that people are going to try to say that we're doing. And like, I think it's important to manage the media on that pick really, really carefully. I don't know if it would be my choice, not because she's a woman, but because like, I'm so excited about the idea of Sam Cassell, if you can't tell. I just because he's part of the furniture in Boston. You know, he was here. He was here when we had a winning culture. He's been part of multiple winning cultures. he's a he's a proven winner. He's got banner 17 you know, like, he's, he was there for that. And I think that, you know, he it's talking heads like us. If you if we had a show back then. Oh, we did. I bet if we listen to the Sunday night sports wrap, I bet there's multiple times where all of us are saying Yeah, Sam Cassell sounds like basically I part of the coaching staff, you know, like, he's, I know, he doesn't play a ton of time all the time was,
Rob Kelly:it was literally every show.
Dave Clarke:So like, and you know, it's like, I'm sure someone even said like a future head coach and Celtics or something. I know, we've had like a running joke about Mike and rayshawn, battling opinions about Doc Rivers, but Doc Rivers want us to championship and like, he he's a he's a proven winner. And like, I you know, to come from that, that expression we use all the time, but I'm pretty sure that they just implanted in the matrix coaching tree to come from that. I'm like, I know. It's just, it's just a funny visual. It's like coaches falling off like coconuts anyway. For him to come from him to come from that locker room to come from from those players. He commanded the respect of what I consider like the last generation of like actual NBA players that actually had it something about him wanting to win in Boston, which was obviously the Pierce Garnet and Allen and Rondo generation. So I think yeah, it has to be same consult for me, Carolina, I wouldn't be upset about it. You know, I mean, I think it'd be cool. I think she's a damn good head coach. And I do think she could make the current players we have.
Michael Marcangelo:Can I throw out one more before I kick it over to Bobby. So for you, what about, what about Becky Hammon? We're talking about coaching trees. That's from Gregg Popovich again,
Dave Clarke:I mean, yeah, it's it's kind of To me it's like six of one half a dozen and the other with between Lawson and Han. And because it's like, I think both of them come from great stock. I think I would probably lean a little bit more towards Carolina in that sense, because the Duke connection and I think I just I could I could see her taking Jason Tatum and elevating him. You know, I can I can really see that happening. And like, the sky's the limit for Tatum at this point, you know, like, You have no idea how he could just keep doing this. You know, like he had he scored, he took on the Brooklyn Nets, three on one, at least in one game, and he went completely insane. And it's like, at that point, I decided I said to you guys, I'm never gonna say a bad word about him ever again. Because he's the he's the truth. He's the real deal. It's, it's, it's been decided. I just wanted to be the one dissenting voice but there's no reason to do it. Anyway. Because it's just it's it's in arguable
Rob Kelly:you can't you can't you just can't anymore You can't.
Dave Clarke:I mean, listen, if we're just to break the fourth wall here listeners, we decided we decided amongst ourselves to be like had to argue about shit. So like someone has to fucking be the bad guy so I'm not doing it anymore because it just sounds ridiculous at this point, you know? But yeah, I could see him working with her I think he's of a generation as well where it wouldn't make a difference to him consciously or subconsciously if his coach was a man or a woman. I think that our generation is a little bit like that. But like people like Jayson Tatum's age who who I know it's depressing are a lot younger than us. They don't give a shit about that stuff. It doesn't it doesn't affect them like he's he's he would respect her right off the bat and continue to respect her I think maybe even more so. You know, because it's a you got to be a little bit more careful. But yeah, I I think it'd be cool. Now that now that we've talked about it, I know this happens on the show all the time. Like when we flesh stuff out, like now it's in my imagination. I'm like, Yeah, actually, it would be kind of dope.
Rob Kelly:That's my Mo, bro. That's my mo right. That's what I do. That is literally every show. moment where I'm like, I'm against that. You know what?
Dave Clarke:I'm not against it. I just like had simca. So stuck in my head. I hope it's not chasing kid. He's not good.
Michael Marcangelo:Yeah, yeah. But just
Joe Malkin:real quick, the best part about Becky Hammon and Kara Lawson and I think there's a better chance of it being Becky Hammon if we're if we're just gonna sit on that side of the aisle for a second. It's it's more likely to be Becky Hammon because I think Kara Lawson has a lot to prove at Duke. I think she she went down there after leaving the self except for, you know, being an NBA assistant for a year. And I think she can take that program in a really good direction. I think she's gonna take her time to do that. But the best part about putting Kara Lawson and Becky Hammon into this conversation is they are qualified, like that's the biggest thing here is they're they're qualified to do this job. And I said it to you guys earlier in the discord that I love Becky Hammon, because she comes from Popovich, his coaching tree, because she's been down in San Antonio learning how to handle those personalities and learning how to handle Pop's personality. Not not just the player, so I can't say Can I say
Dave Clarke:one thing while you're on that subject? Just just I'm sorry to interrupt you, but I was thinking about not saying this, but I'm gonna say it I hope it's not her because that I mean, we're already the widest team in basketball. And like it's like that then you just got white from top to bottom. And it's like that's a thing. Like I'm sorry but it is and like I just Yeah, no, it's like already we had we
Rob Kelly:had a white middle aged man
Joe Malkin:there's a wall right but but we also have a white slightly more middle aged GM So yeah, I think Sam Cassell still sell um, you have now talking yourself into Kara Lawson. You've now talked me into Sam Cassell Kara
Dave Clarke:Lawson is an African American lady. And I think that that's you know, that's a different,
Joe Malkin:but I'm counting her out right now because I don't think she's gonna leave Duke to come here is basically what I'm saying.
Dave Clarke:It's the best job and women's basketball. Oh, without
Joe Malkin:a doubt, but but Sam Cassell MBA though.
Dave Clarke:MBA comes can you go?
Joe Malkin:Right, but But you said well, so that's the other question. And we have to go there with this topic because it's never happened before. If a woman gets a job, offer to coach in the NBA as a head coach, you're absolutely right. Like you you have to take it. You have to take it. You go and you you succeed or you fail. You just you go and you do it. Because you are breaking barriers as much as I you know they're qualified to do it. But you're still breaking a barrier.
Rob Kelly:Becky Hammon no is is Carol Lawson's amazing. I love carwash, and she's literally one of my favorite woman basketball players ever maybe one of my favorite basketball players ever. But Becky Hammon has been commanding the respect of NBA players for the last decade. What rate she's been on, she will disperse for a week or so, this girl has been has been in an NBA locker room for almost a decade now. So like when you talk about experience when you talk about having having the prowess to do the job. It's got if you're gonna pick between one of those two, it's got to be back up.
Joe Malkin:As an assistant coach as an assistant coach, she has a couple years less experience but basically the same level of experience and same Cosell
Michael Marcangelo:and I have some I have something on that. I know like Dave, she's white, but I think the fact that she's a female transcends the color.
Dave Clarke:Now it really doesn't it
Michael Marcangelo:i think i think it's still I think it's still a barrier breaker.
Rob Kelly:It's a minority it's a minority higher in the NBA
Michael Marcangelo:but but to Bobby's point, I will say like paga saw, I don't know if you guys remember the shoe, he wrote an open letter to the NBA. And I'll just this is about Becky hammer. I'm gonna quote him. I play with some of the best players of this generation I played under the two sharpest minds and In the history of sports in Phil Jackson and Gregg Popovich, and I'm telling you, Becky, him he can coach, I'm not saying she can coach pretty well. I'm not saying she can coach enough to get by. I'm not saying she can coach almost at the level of an NBA male coach. I'm saying, Becky Hammon can coach NBA basketball.
Dave Clarke:No one's no one's denying that she's good at her job, though. At the point I'm making is that the point I'm making is you have to, cuz I, you know, you guys have said your piece here. And I do just think this is an important point to touch on. It's like, I think, when you when you add in all the context, the things Kyrie Irving was saying about Boston, that is a recognized, like, thought process in the NBA. I've talked to NBA fans all over the world that think that the Boston Celtics are the shittiest fan base for racial reasons. The It's fine, listen, I i'm not saying we're racist, because we like the Celtics, it's just it's a nuanced point. And you know, you have to you have to think through the nuances of it. When you have had white guy gms for as long as we have had, you have the best player on the in the history of your franchise as a white guy. Your fans are known to be a little bit racist from time to time, busing, et cetera. You know, everything there in that lies in that stuff. And your best black player of all time saying that he felt very removed from the fan base Bill Russell when he played here because he didn't think that people from Boston liked him because he is a black dude. So when your front office and coaching staff in 2021, the most hyper aware of race era of all time looks like the cast of friends for the first six seasons or whatever before they brought it should tie them in because they were nervous. It's not a good look, guys, it's just not a fucking good look. So I don't think if we were deciding for sitting in the room right now it's up to the six of us, thank God it isn't like we'd never you'd never get another championship in Boston again. But if it was, I would be pretty adamant in the boardroom, that it's just not a fucking good look. And you have to factor this stuff in you have to it's just it's it's 2021 and when you when you say unfortunately, you say the girl thing supersedes the black thing. Unfortunately, the entire I'm not saying this to you, but the entire Internet's response is going to be you don't get to make that decision because you're neither a girl nor a person of color. That's what they're going to tell you I'm just saying it on their behalf
Michael Marcangelo:most qualified person should get the job
Dave Clarke:we don't need we don't need to have an affirmative action argument like the idea the idea within I'm putting across to you is not is to not die on that hill when it's your team. I don't want my team to die on that hill. I don't want my team to be like we're taking a stand because the most qualified person but I just
Rob Kelly:think it's very possible when you can talk about that but it's very possible a white male gets hired for this job we can talk about we can talk about it's not gonna fit that Affirmative. But like I said, it's like if if if they are looking to make that type of hire I'm just saying Yeah, can we get
Dave Clarke:I don't think you I don't think you need to be black or or or you know, bring in a black guy to understand that like, this is a hot button issue in 2021. And like it's probably not a good idea to whitewash your brand. Like I feel like you guys should get this
Rob Kelly:I do but I just think at the same time like listen, I want the best guy for the job man like listen, I know Bobby we see what the person is.
Joe Malkin:Alright, but hang on a sec before it before this goes down a dark alley and we start getting hate mail. There's nothing dark about it. It's this it's a conversation that should be had. No, you're absolutely right. You are 100% right and you're 100% right with what you said and I'm in your corner on that and it has to be it does have to be factored in it so Bobby you're right could be a white guy but you know
Rob Kelly:who the head coach the number one.
Joe Malkin:Bobby that's what I'm getting to so
Rob Kelly:Larranaga
Dave Clarke:GMOs 300 out plus 300 on odds right now send yourself
Rob Kelly:a change that right? Those are still
Joe Malkin:the same but same thing the same thing to Mike like the best person for the job but best person to work with Brad Stevens best person to work with with this roster. And
Dave Clarke:I really hire Rick Pitino. I'm going to be on Brooklyn Nets fan just for a few
Joe Malkin:points. Like I said the other day it's like I said the other day when there was when it was floated around that Matt Patricia could be the successor for Bill Belichick. I will find another team to root for if Rick Pitino is hired. I'm going to be a maverick spin. If Rick Pitino is
Dave Clarke:going to become a Seattle SuperSonics fan. So I'll just become Basketball atheist
Michael Marcangelo:of the two possibilities though, it feels like caselle and Kara Lawson are the two front runners they fit the style that we have historically played and want to continue playing in the future. Right I really love Sam Cassell.
Rob Kelly:So can I can I toss out another one? Yeah. Chauncey Billups man he's in our mind that he that wasn't when when so apparently I heard the story today where Chauncey Billups so he had just gotten traded to a team. He told the story on a podcast, like this is a first hand account, he got to this team. And apparently they were in a huddle on a timeout, and they were sitting there and then timeout and they're trying to figure out the play. And the coach is like, Alright, so we're going to do this, that we're just gonna figure out what happened. And I guess Chachi bill just sat back was like, wait, what are you gonna do? And it turns again, he goes, Nope, I'm fucking here. Now. That's not what we're doing. Here's what we're doing. This is the play. This is what you're going to do. This is what you're going to do. This is what you're going to do and everyone in the hall was just like, Okay, I guess that's what we're doing. I love Chauncey Billups. Right. And so like, he just commands his presence when he enters a locker room. And he's been doing that since he was in the league for like, three, four years. So like this dude, this dude from the beginning of his career has been just commanding a leadership presence. Listen, he brought in an era of LeBron James in an era of Kobe Bryant in an era of Shaquille O'Neal. He brought a team of misfits to Shrek two out of three right to out of state championships as the point guard. We talked about Doc Rivers. We talked about Sam Cassell In my opinion, the only thing Chauncey is missing that Sam already has is that assistant coach resume. I think Chauncey now has a couple years under his belt. But I just think bringing Chauncey in here man considering we drafted them like we rated them away like everything which I think like to see him in that in that suit with the Celtics players behind them pacing back like it just like
Dave Clarke:I like Sam Cassell some for that reason, too, though, but, but Well, I thought that Chauncey was potentially going to be one of Sam's assistance if we got Sam was that did I make that up?
Rob Kelly:No. So from the one I saw was Chauncey kg and I saw appears but it was on pierce it was somewhere else. Oh,
Joe Malkin:I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm literally every day just came away with the combination.
Rob Kelly:like letting go
Joe Malkin:That's right. Me as the head coach, or Kara Lawson. I don't it doesn't listen.
Dave Clarke:Is that that culture in here get tonight? Yeah, that KGC Yes, I'll get that in here.
Rob Kelly:That's what we need the one thing so like, let's let's go back and be like the guys we don't want are the Jason kids. The gentler Nago, the Lloyd Pierce's the like the Jay The Alvin Gentry, like do not bring these dudes in here that are just the same thing over and over again. Just we can't do that. We can't go through this again. To be that fire.
Michael Marcangelo:What are the odds that that Brad picks someone that was not like him as a coach to be the coach because he has to mesh with him? Right? So knowing like what his coaching style was, do you think that uh, outspoken and by the way like cagey as a coach, I don't know how that would go. But that would be like, do you ever talk about this we have to talk about a world where Brad Stevens Yeah,
Dave Clarke:yeah, kg is a soldier bro. kg kg is in there. Like if he looks at you and he's decided that like your his guide to like, lead him to the promised land. He will kill for you. And like if he decides that he wants to come and work for Brad's females besides Yeah, well, then he wouldn't take the job. You know what I mean? He's He's, he's a smart guy. Dude, you saying it and it just like put the image in my head though. I was like,
Rob Kelly:before so you guys, you guys have been a member of teams before. You've been a member of a team with a psychotic coach, okay? And listen, it's fun, but it's not conducive to to a winning team. I'm not saying head coach I psychotic as right as psychotic as an assistant coach. That is a whole different
Joe Malkin:story who says he says he's gonna be psychotic just because he was like that on the floor like this. This? No, that's how he's wired to Mike's question of back to Mike's question of is, is Brad Stevens going to bring in someone who has a different style than him
Dave Clarke:if Brad Stevens has if Brad Stevens is that his as enough character and I'm answering your question, so I'm sorry to cut you off, but I am answering your question if he has enough character, to have the balls to put together a coaching staff that looks in any way like Sam Cassell Chauncey Billups and Kevin Garnett, like as the coaching staff, if he has the if he's confident enough in himself to bring those three personalities into Boston and or back into Boston. In a couple of cases to head up the coaching staff and he thinks he can like tell those motherfuckers what to do I will have all the respect in the world for Brad Stevens because that is showing no he totally should that coaching staff is insane
Joe Malkin:he won't have to do that because this is this was where I was going to go with this so thank you for leading me down this way to answer the question to Mike Mike he wants exactly that. He wants exactly that he wants to bring in and I sorry sorry Brad Stevens if you're listening don't want to speak for you. But he should want exactly that. To bring in someone to bring in a coaching staff to bring in a head coach that's different than what they've had you you set it already right so like if you go to the cookie cutters of Jason Kidd who's already proven that he's a failure so piece of shit. Now, Rick Pitino to quote Rick Pitino Rick Pitino is not walking through that door. It's not happening God so if you bring it up, are you kidding me? You're gonna bring in you're gonna bring in the the championship the championship pedigree the or what is Bobby saying championship? championship DNA of Sam Cassell Kevin Garnett Chauncey Billups, you're gonna bring those three guys in? Brent doesn't have to tell them what to do, because Brad's going to go out and get the players because that's what Brad is now being paid to do. He's being paid to scout and bring in players and these three guys again, we have literally just formulated this out of little to nothing. But if that is what if that is what they bring in for a coaching staff. He doesn't have to tell them anything. He doesn't have to do anything because they're just gonna do it.
Michael Marcangelo:Can you imagine? Like the whole stomping on lucky thing happens and you have Sam Cassell kg and shotzi but he would have killed it he would have killed somebody here's the thing dude.
Dave Clarke:Here's the thing. Nobody liked it, Kyrie did that like the players didn't like that, Kyrie did they should have done that shit. All right, but I don't know if we've completely fabricated this like rumor or not. I'm not like a journalist. I don't know if this is even like a possibility like cagey would like be like this the first time here and have it on this dump. missing the point shows like these guys just made that up. I cannot get it out of my head now. And I like I'm gonna write a letter or something. Like, just do it. It's amazing. Do you know how good Jayson Tatum would be if he was a quarter as hard quote, as Kevin Garnett.
Rob Kelly:He had one conversation with Kendrick Perkins one conversation with Kendrick Perkins on the phone. And that's when Jayson Tatum brought it to this level. I don't know if you guys
Dave Clarke:know this, but once and Tatum wants, he wants someone to teach him.
Joe Malkin:That guy to do it.
Dave Clarke:Brad Stevens is not that guy to do it.
Joe Malkin:He's too mild mannered. So you're so right here, Mike, where Brad Stevens is to mild mannered and honestly it whether they bring in SAM Cassell Chauncey Billups, Becky Hammon, Kara Lawson, the Dave set the four of those people, let's just put those four people up on the pedestal right now. They're going to get more out of Jason Tatum and Jalen brown than Brad Stevens did from this point forward because Brad Stevens is too mild mannered he got that he got his brand of basketball but that's not the brand of basketball that needs to be played in the NBA right now. Because the other night the other night when when in what was a game for when Jason Tatum got teed up the those three guys Cayenne and Blake Griffin to the the big three and Blake Griffin basically bullied Jayson Tatum and the Celtics up and down the floor for the next 10 minutes beforehand. All
Dave Clarke:right. Let's be Let's be Let's be late. I know but there's like, there's extenuating circumstances like everybody was injured.
Joe Malkin:I understand. But what I'm saying is if you bring in the culture that we're talking about with this head yes, I agree that kind of thing isn't going to happen.
Dave Clarke:I agree. I agree. And also I feel like he would have fucked Kyrie Irving up for stepping on the local street
Rob Kelly:I'd like in my kid he said he wanted to fuck him up on Twitter literally he said
Dave Clarke:and my kids do fight too and like I just feel like first of all
Rob Kelly:I do wasn't we haven't talked about any of that at all but I do want to talk to him every single time I watched that I get more and more pissed off because you know you don't really bothers me the most about that not to go down this rabbit hole but we're down at he he broke up with us bro that's still from from from day one like it still blows my fucking mind
Joe Malkin:is a Fabi it's about him but but it's about
Rob Kelly:a friend so I'm going to put this in an even prospective girlfriend that told you she was going to love you to the day she died she was going to be your greatest ever she was going to bring you to the promised land. And then a year and a half left your ass and she thinks you're the asshole
Dave Clarke:and it's like, bro,
Joe Malkin:what the focus is wrong. The Kyrie show Bobby and his world grows living in
Rob Kelly:that that's so bad and listen, you don't deserve to get a water bottle.
Joe Malkin:I'm sorry. It's flat earth and we're
Rob Kelly:living in that hole. thing was the most disgusting thing ever and I completely agree if if kg or even Chauncey Billups or even any of these guys are their coaches teams, that doesn't happen. And Mike to actually answer your question after that tangent. What they're looking to hire. What Brad's looking to hire in my opinion, is a basketball mind that can match him. He's not going to hire anyone that can't sit in a room with him and and talk basketball with him if he feels like he doesn't have that same knowledge as Brad Stevens. He's not going to be your head coach. I think he's looking for the fire along with that knowledge.
Michael Marcangelo:Yeah, I mean, just put a punctuation at the end of this long sentence. It's been one hell of a day here. If you're a Boston Celtics fan, the changes that we were all talking about that they all happened in one way or another. Brad Stevens is now your GM your head of basketball operations. Danny Ainge is gone. So there's gonna be a lot of changes to come listen to future episodes for us to discuss it but for now, for DK sizzle Dave Clark Ruby k BB Kelly, Broadway Joe Malkin. I am Michael Mark Angeles. And thank you for listening to missing the point and we'll talk to you later.