Remembering Boston Celtics Legend Bill Russell 1934-2022

Rayshawn Buchanan: 0:47

Welcome to missing the point I am Hollywood rage I'm Kenan was my guy. Okay, sizzle. Man, this is not gonna be one of our more fun shows,

Dave Clarke: 1:01

under better circumstances.

Rayshawn Buchanan: 1:04

Yeah, you know, yeah, no, no, same same here, man. We've had a lot of great selfless content or where, you know, the last several months. And, you know, once again, you know, you as the audience have shown us a lot of love. And you know, we praise you show us love on this one as well. It is with a heavy heart that we speak about the passing of your vessel. He just passed away the other day, he at the age of 88. You know, he was on the southwest for 13 years. And you know, 111 time champ two time champion and college. So just, you know, what was what was your initial thoughts on, you know, the passing no decay and just like, you know, what were your, you know, do you remember when you first heard about, you know, the Russell growing up as a kid?

Dave Clarke: 1:45

Yeah, I mean, I think my probably my first thought was back to the most recent time, I'd seen him out in public, which was during that obviously great Celtics playoff run last season, and he didn't look great, you know, he looked old. He wasn't moving great. I you know, as a tall man, myself, not Bill Russell tall, but as a tall man myself, there is more shit to break, you know, there's more surface area to break. And he was having a tough time getting out of his chair. And, you know, bums me out, because like to sort of segue that into your next question. What do you remember from watching him as a kid now, obviously, he starts his career professionally in 56. So I didn't get the chance to watch him play live or you know, during his era, but when you become a Celtics fan, and you're sort of indoctrinated into the fan base, there's sort of a few key lessons you have to learn that there will be a quiz on later when you're when you first sort of start out and I think probably less than one is probably burden McHale and like that whole run and like that's the first one on one class you get put through. And then once you pass your A levels there, you you sort of move on to learning about the older the older grades back in the day. Now, when I was a kid, I used to love the movie, Conan the Destroyer that will still take Chamberlain is in and he's awesome in it. And it's a great movie of him and sports and Edgar fight. It's super fun. So will it was actually a guy I knew about first before being introduced to Bill. And that was sort of my context, when being introduced to Bill. And the way it was sort of always explained to me and it's kind of I mean, there's some nuance to it now, but the way it was sort of always explained to me was that it was like those two, those were the two guys, they were the two giants of the sport, both literally and figuratively. But maybe Bill was a bit more of a competitor. And, you know, he had maybe some things to say about what happened to between him and Wilson in that finals that they played against each other. Well, it was hurt, he wanted to come back and didn't want to come back in there was you know, whatever I wasn't there, I can't speak to him. What I do know is that you then sort of learn and you can start to draw a line between the Celtics culture, the kind of basketball that we play, and the kind of winning basketball that we play, and you can draw a direct line to Bill Russell, his complement complicated relationship. I'm sure we'll go into talking about with the city aside, I think having the winningest guy in basically any sport, be part of your franchise was always cool as fuck the fact that every time he got in an interview, he was always cool as fuck the fact that like the best uncle drew commercial was him being like, these kids have to learn that this game is about buckets. You know, I still think about that. I mean, because it is, right. And like the fact that, you know, not everybody gets like the coolest guy ever to be their guy to be their old head, like the guy that kind of got got their franchise to where to where it is. And it's such a participant in the cultures was still such a participant in the culture right up until he died. Not everybody gets that. So just like my overall view of him, I think is kind of the Grand Master of our franchise, you know, the reigning elder of Celtics basketball, and one of the first and best ever do it.

Rayshawn Buchanan: 4:52

Yeah, no, I mean, what was said, I think so for me, obviously, I you know, growing up in the inner city, like, you know, we grew up in the 90s. And obviously, the soldiers weren't a good team at that time. So that's, that's, that's yeah, so that's, that's actually where to put it. Right. So they were negative a team so you know, yeah, I mean, you knew about the AJA Griffiths of the World War Two handsaw walkers obviously and obviously pairs comes along but you know yeah, you're right the first a doctrine doctrine ation like Vera Bo burn McHale parish like that. That is the thing that you know, you may hear about Jojo. Wait, Dave Cowen's shall have checks. Charlie Scott's would have been so and so forth. Then obviously didn't it gets back to the fitness episode here about Kuzey heights in the Sam Jones Casey Jones Bill Sharman Sanders, and you know that is like, Oh, this larger life guy. Well, Russell comes up from University of San Francisco. And Timmy really turns around their franchise, right? It turns turns around. And you know, my mom was a child of the 60s. And you know, she would tell me like, you know, how, you know, it wasn't games weren't really being sold out at that time, you know, for for people to come to this office, which is wild to me, because they have to have a franchise. Like could you imagine if we were we were living with a one a street

Dave Clarke: 6:07

there every night here in the best seats in the house. We have

Rayshawn Buchanan: 6:10

no one would have been I mean, people may think we're unbearable now, we've replete would have been unbearable. And we were wrapping up when he not one, not two, not three, not four, not five, not six, not seven, but eight in a row. like listen, I would have been the most inseparable person out here. Like, by far the only bit tucked in crazy shade in the cafeteria. KTG like all that, like it just it just wouldn't be crazy. But yeah, I just remember saying like, you know, it wasn't always it wasn't always a fun time for him here. And as I got older, we found that most people getting sad, you know, later on but yeah, it was it was it was something where it was like Yeah, you were able to hear about how great he was as a player and then later on found out by how cool he was even outside of the you know, the Boston Garden that at the time, so we're just like, you know, we're not going to see a straight again, right, like, we're not going to see that now.

Dave Clarke: 7:08

It's like, you know, there's this kind of, you know, and this is a little bit of an aside so I'll keep it short. But this this debates been coming up in the basketball world, which I know you're you know, just as plugged into as I am about like, oh, you know, JJ Reddick talks shit about Bob Cousy, whatever and he's like, he was playing against, you know, firemen, or whatever. Like, okay, the thing is, is like, my issue with that kind of conversation, and usually it's done honestly, in basketball terms to just sort of try to disregard the Celtics amount of the Celtics titles that we have. And what I always try and say to people is, like, you know, you'd have to take that across everything that happened in the 50s and 60s, because if Bill Russell wasn't the winningest basketball player of all time, he would have like set high jump records, you know, it's he wanted to go to the Olympics for two sports, you know, and, and this is a guy that I don't know like maybe they're putting different shit in the Wheaties now and like maybe like with nutritionists and and personal trainers and strength and conditioning coaches and an Advanced Tactical knowledge of the game. Yeah, it's different. It's it's hard to compare but where would we be without them you know, these we're standing on the shoulders of these giants you know, when we're watching this sport, and these are people that had to take a game in its infancy and develop it and and make make it important to be seven feet tall and be able to still run in jump make, you know, a place for that person in like a place for a seven foot tall man that can run and jump and do cool stuff because football in it, you know, and they paved the way for this the feats of athleticism and the kinds of things that we see players do today and it's like if you're Joellen bead like you should be thanking Bill Russell every time you catch that 25 million check you know, it's it's it just the reason why we're here is because of the people that came before us and like I'm sure that like once they're playing with those NFL robots from the fox broadcasts and that those are the guys playing all the sports we're not going to want to hear that our era wasn't shit because our guys blood actual blood, you know, so right right, just that it's a silly argument. It's just so silly. It's just it's never necessary. It's it's disrespectful, quite frankly. And like, these are also people like you said that were like, fucking fighting civil rights battles at the same time. It's like becoming a great basketball champions. What are you guys doing nowadays? You know, what are the basketball players that today doing? For the most part fucking going back to their Manhattan brownstone and like tweeting, so like, whatever, you know, it's all relative.

Rayshawn Buchanan: 9:38

Right? So yeah, exactly. That's food. That's a term that made it that was our opinion, that it's all relative, baby. But no, that's the thing. No, this like, Yo, he was gay it was getting and was he wasn't getting crazy buckets. Like, obviously, he was getting a teammate's in the game. But it's like, bro, they always give bikinis and Chuck Taylors and Sharon Taylor's it was different people 20 And back heat 30 is

Dave Clarke: 10:04

like the last shoe I would wear to a basketball. Like, so Daniel,

Rayshawn Buchanan: 10:09

you will do it in later years, I'm able to get up. It's like that's why when you're reading Taylor's if you're blocked his sight, you know, there's a picture of him like his leg is like way up in the head like this, but I'm like, wow, like he's really not even the heights up so I'm like, boats ops.

Dave Clarke: 10:28

I'm pretty sure it was like fucking lead in the water when he was doing that. You know? What they were doing back then?

Rayshawn Buchanan: 10:36

Yeah, let's see. I mean, smoking in the locker room. Kill You name it. I mean, it was it was There was a lot a lot of stuff. I mean, there were guys who work a second jobs. Imagine that guys will work. His second job was like I know, I said was a insurance agent when he was at play. But like imagine, imagine that you're you're well, you know, selling out arenas, but you're going from a region. So really even though it was this many teams, but you go and you play a doubleheader is on sorry, games was, you know, they would never do now, what's your play? Did you play a doubleheader? Is it it's the I was the offseason, gonna go custom graphs and yeah, my age back was like, That's wild.

Dave Clarke: 11:11

So great. So and some of these stories, you know, it's like, especially in the, in the Bill Russell era, like, onward, you know, and the stuff that he like faced, I mean, what what's happening when you're flying into these towns in like, across America, with a seven foot tall black guy, and like 11 other athletic looking dudes, and you're like, there's, through time, people freaking the fuck out, you know, they're probably looking at them, like there was this circus was in town at this point, you know, and it's less Yeah, this but this is something that they had to deal with, whilst trying to be great at a sport that is not easy. You know, I mean, it's just, you got to apply all this criteria to it.

Rayshawn Buchanan: 11:49

Right. And so I'm, yeah, so let's, let's give it to that. Because there's no easy way to transition. Here we are, right? Which, trust me, we're trying to make this as light as possible. But you know, there's some stuff that we got to have a soul sticking to that right. So there was I think it was a 1961 preseason game dad traveling to Lexington, Kentucky, which is not known to be fun that people will look like yours truly. Especially at that time. And

Dave Clarke: 12:18

raise black Yeah, for this radio

Rayshawn Buchanan: 12:22

if you're not if you're not watching on YouTube. Yeah, yeah. As you know, guys like us so you know, so I just think that you know, they get there and sack so sack Sanders in at the Santa Rosa Casey jolas. Word denied food at a local restaurant, you know, because doesn't tell her this good. So they come back to the hotel, obviously, they're fired up the pitch probably really hurt. Obviously. That's, that's a very unsettling experience. A you know, so obviously, baroque has learned a bit, you know, they and they choose to boycott the game. And you know, it's high isn't. So what happened a couple of years ago, I saw it, Kenosha, Wisconsin. Well, obviously, the Jacob Blake shooting, which we did an episode on, early on, and Yoda plays when we chose to do you know, what they immobile it was like Wingate, they chose the boycott and not and not play that particular night. But it's like, Yo, wait, they were on the front? And why? Yeah, of this, right. So, you know, just kind of dispute that. So it's like, you know, just a difference between, it's like, not knowing if you're going to make it home. Yeah. Or, if it looks like you're going back to you going back to So imagine, like, these dudes walking the streets, not knowing if they were going to make it home at time. So that that was just wild. You know?

Dave Clarke: 13:39

I mean, you know, I'm on record, I think we all are of being sort of like in agreement with what the players in the bubble did during that time. I think that they were in a literal bubble, though, like a literal bubble, right? Your Kids these days are in a bubble. It's like, I'm not saying I, you know, I would be very reticent to take away from the fact that like, it's not a big deal to not go out and play like in a multi at this point, multi billion dollar industry, your industry that like, you know, and you're saying we're not going out, we're shutting it down. And I don't know, kind of credit to the league. Also, I think at that point by being like, cool, you know, whatever, we get it. I mean, this is a predominantly African American League, and like, this is how you guys are feeling about it. So cool. So not to take away from that. But yeah, I mean, I think you put it perfectly when you said they're like, literally on the front lines, like if they boycott the game, and like how quickly does a mob get formed in 1950s 1960s? Middle America, you know what I mean? Record? Yeah, yeah, it's like, you go out there and play for us. This is what blah, blah, blah. Like, you know, one guy gets pissed off because he's not going to get paid that night for like work and security at the fucking you know, arena where they're supposed to play. And he goes, it goes and get some of his friends and all of a sudden, you're on the fucking wrong end of a mob, you know, informed by ignorance and fueled by hate. And I think that like, I think that you're well aware of that, if you're Bill Russell and the Celtics in that in that era, and I think that you, I think it takes some mighty fucking stones to do something like that. And I think that people recognize that, you know, I think that right up until the players in 2020 boycotting a game because of police brutality in general and the conversation that was going on at the time, but at the same time, like other people participating in, in civil rights throughout the 60s and 70s and beyond, are going like well, they're right there on the fucking front lines. Like you know, the, the fucking guy flying their plane out of here might be a fucking card carrying racists they don't know. So it's, it seems like It's inspirational, you know, like that words tossed around a lot. But it is it's, it's to use it less in the sense of like, I'm inspired by this amazing story and more in the sense of like, I draw from experiences of people that are in the same boat as me, that are making decisions that are scarier maybe than the circumstances I'm in. So I might as well do something also. And I think that like that is what it is to be a leader in movements like that. And I think it's so cool that he was the Celtic and do and shit. Like, you know what I mean? Because, look, I mean, at the end of the day, like the Boston has a really complicated relationship with race because of the the busing stuff because of, you know, experiences players have even today have come to the garden, which, you know, I wish that wasn't the case. Obviously, experiences that Bill Russell had of just being like straight hated, even though he was a Celtic, which is difficult for me to wrap my head around now. But like, I mean, I guess it makes sense if it's 1958. Right. And you're given Russell shit, like, who are you?

Rayshawn Buchanan: 16:34

I mean, his I think his daughter came over to statement recently, they want to, I guess someone shows on the road. And they obviously they will stay home today when they come out with family like, that's tires, tires, granite slabs? No, I think the story about someone sitting in his bed was that that to me, that's, I mean, that's to me, that's equivalent against but on, like, shit like that, like, I'm going to go to the chocolate a little bit. That's to me it. It's unbelievable. So and I'm sure there's many other subjects on the circumference that we haven't even heard about. Right. And it's crazy, because obviously, it wasn't just him, but obviously with him being restarted the team. Yeah. And being outspoken was definitely was not a thing like say, obviously, once again, the jolla bees and LeBron James Charles Barkley is like, a lot of those guys that have been able to be outspoken about race and just whatever they want to talk about endless in this world, in this in this media, on his media out without Draymond Green of the world. Like, they need to be thinking guys lead the reversal, because he really was a pioneer for people that was like, Look, this is not right. I'm going to speak on it. And if you I gotta pumped it, I'm gonna keep talking about it until, you know, we see a change. But, you know, I want to could we we've talked to the title who danced around the park that obviously, you know, it was it was good to see a guy that was on the on the front lines being in uniform being in the city of Boston, that has been racially charged at times, but I want to switch between him and right away, because obviously, I read Josh, the first, you know, black guy, and maybe a history of him, Chuck Cooper, you know, he played here for a while of Boston, same thing, same year as as Bob goody two game at the same time. But obviously, his most famous pick ever will always be, you know, Bill Russell. So I've lost out of labor. So I just wanted to speak about how important or how important you take your was there, right. Albert was his coach at that time, because I don't I don't know if anyone else would have been in that position. So what are your thoughts about your versus coach, and he's trying to hit conference at that time?

Dave Clarke: 18:31

Well, I think the I mean, it's, it's kind of a weird thing to say, but like, stay with me on this. I think the thing that red did in that scenario that was unorthodox wasn't getting a black player, the thing that he did that was an orthodox was deciding that a big man was going to be his defensive focal point on his team. And he saw Russell's toughness and rebounding and his ability to, to kind of have a giant basketball IQ in the position that he's in. And he sort of changed the senator position with him. Because if you'll remember, I mean, you're not gonna remember because you weren't there. But if you know if you've been reincarnated, but back from somebody that watched basketball in 1953 Point forwards and the senators, those are guys that scored, you know, that's that's the way it sort of was back then. And I think it was like an unorthodox move for red to put bill in that position. And I think that to find a guy as talented as Bill Russell to sort of move him up in the world as you know, one of the greats of the game and do it in that unorthodox way. And also let him be him a little bit you know, like let him express himself he did that with all the players I think that was I think that was that's great you know, I mean look I don't I didn't know read our back personally. He was a guy in the 1950s I wouldn't be very unsurprised if around a steak dinner with like five other white dudes he didn't say some shit in his time you know? I mean, I have no fucking clue but like this is just sort of how it works a lot of the times when you go there's nothing more dangerous than five white guys alone in a room you know? It's like not a room you want to fucking be in because they're either like deciding what country to invade or they're making racist jokes. But my point my point my point is the the the I think the kind of coach that red was I think, you know, I think he's instrumental and bill becoming who he is from a basketball sense.

Rayshawn Buchanan: 20:17

Yeah, no, I mean basketball says by me just believe in let Yeah, let her letting them play their style and obviously yes, you don't get to where they got to without really is defensive prowess. Right, obviously. Who's he was pushing the ball

Dave Clarke: 20:30

be diesel. He does.

Rayshawn Buchanan: 20:32

Exactly, exactly. You know, and it has nothing to do before we get back into what him it is his dynamic we have a right. It's like fun, obviously. Well, you know, man And you know those guys that have played up to now know you kind of set up and I'm like, yo, you had bought PEDOT double chaise will Chamberlain Elgin Baylor how Greer though there's a few that come to mind. You know, a third like is a guy that comes to mind and I'm like yo, these two wants to give and buck is in their days. So to stay that they played against you know, it was only plumbers only sales was like Yo, dudes was like I was eligibility specifically it's on me. I just wanted to just do was getting 30 A night. It was the original MJ, right? Like, was once again and Dang, listen, I want you to understand getting 30 and I wasn't going to say this getting 30 tailors is no easy feat. You you go out there. It was like a year in college. I knew there were lots of tools out there. What am I gonna go, go go go to it. Go to Santa Monica Pier, go outside, go do a shoot out there. Go put awesome Sunsail at 30 out there. One day,

Dave Clarke: 21:42

I'll do you one better I'll do you one better put on a pair of Chuck Taylors and go to a loop by yourself and time how long it takes you to get 30 points. You know, maybe if you have a strategy maybe you have a strategy where you're just hitting layup after layup Yeah. Oh, yeah, sure, um, rebounds. Like, that's not fun. You want to take the ball and shoot it a couple times. And then it bounces off the rim and it goes away and you gotta run after it. Tell me how long it takes to get 30 points is not easy. Yeah.

Rayshawn Buchanan: 22:06

Unreal. Unreal, man. So I gotta I gotta I gotta I gotta keep belaboring that point. That was really unreal. Want people very uncomfortable? I want people to understand like, today, it's funny because my wife said my mom, childhood 16. She's like, remember, we got a bunch of conference, but I'm like, I get it. She grew up on Congress. But I'm like, yo, like, How do y'all walk around? And he's like, there's nothing like, I'm sorry, likes this.

Dave Clarke: 22:31

Paper. Yay. This

Rayshawn Buchanan: 22:32

is just a joke. Is it's called quit. No. So it was back to you know, to the biller reg dynamic. So, you know, obviously, you know, JABSOM lesson kind of be him, but then, you know, I feel like their relationship was a lot about creating history. That's what Ron was about. Right. So once again, drafted Chuck Cooper, that you get, you know, they were getting all the best blog players and all the white players like, right, he was like, I'm gonna read, we wanted to win the win. And I'm like, that's, that's why I love the by her both, but then in 1966, the coaching and coaching change, right? So, you know, Bill says, You know what, I'm stuck with gown as as head coach.

Dave Clarke: 23:13

And apparently, he tells Ito red tells bill first he tells him that he's gonna retire because like, according to legend, it says, like, I want you to be the coach. And Bill says no, right? And he goes, Okay, well, then let's make a list of like five people we think would be a good coach. If there's any matches, we'll go to that guy and he couldn't find any matches. And he was like, Bill was like, I don't know man. I've seen the toll that takes on you like being a coach, but like the fact that reds I talked him into, you know, he's talking him into it like, well, you and I have had conversations about how like representation in the coaching position specifically in the NFL isn't where it should be. It's really easy to set examples of like the kind of leash that like the Steve Nash's of the world get compared to like, you know, who's the example he owes us? Not doc, but you you always thought about more of a Louis. Oh, what's his name? The common guy commentates with Van Gundy. Now, you always say he got to Jackson, Mr. Jackson always get you always. That's right. You always said Mark Jackson gets a fucking, you know, didn't get enough of a shot in Golden State, which I think is true. I think if you you know, if you put Steve Nash in there in the same circumstances, I wonder if he gets an extra two years to try to build try to build that same thing with whoever, however, it's a hell of a lot farther than it would have been if Bill Russell doesn't become the player coach, and if red doesn't handle those keys. And if he doesn't then do a really good job at it. You know what I mean? Like, the problem with becoming the first woman anything the first black anything that you know, you have to be twice as good three times as good as your as your counterparts? Because if you fuck it up, everybody goes, Look, they can't do it. Look, they can't do you need a white gun for that role? You know what I mean? They it's obviously ludicrous, but it's what people do. Right? It's do so to then, you know, you gotta you gotta go be Bill Russell at it. I mean, which is thank God for

Rayshawn Buchanan: 25:01

it. That's, that's what I think even the Civil Rights thing to seem to take off, right? Because obviously, you know, he coaches there for three years. They want another two as being a player coach, you know, so they weren't, you know, they weren't supposed to be a player coach, you know, probably the most famous one was winning in 1969 they just the Lakers, you know Don Nelson six of the year before. Yeah, yeah. Well, guys, first one. So yeah, so a deal done LCS, that game when the Charlotte bounces up and hips down, Bill

Dave Clarke: 25:31

Bill's still getting fucking 20 rebounds a game at this point.

Rayshawn Buchanan: 25:36

They're at 35 years old. You know, we just did our damage and energy has failed but you Yeah,

Dave Clarke: 25:41

but that's 2020 to 35. Right? You know 1967 35 Because you've been around people smoking fucking red arrow bullet cigarettes, your life and you're drinking. You're drinking whiskey to help you sleep lady. Different era, man, I'm telling you

Rayshawn Buchanan: 25:56

when and and you and it wasn't just a series i don't know i love it. Like, a you dealing with bullshit and Yeah. On our show, we're just gonna keep moving everywhere you go, which is why he ended up moving up to Seattle. And you know, later on in his life, you know if it was just like, oh, like Boston was not kind to me in that regard. Actually, I actually I had no idea honestly, we never. We weren't around, obviously. But

Dave Clarke: 26:21

how do you feel about like, just to do a quick aside on like, the city of Boston and being kind of cast in that role? I mean, you're, you live in the city, you know, you've grown up in this area, your whole life, you're black? Is is there? Like, is there a sort of like, well, I know how to move through Boston sort of thing, or is that like, because to me, it's like, well, we're also a city of like, more colleges per capita than anywhere else in the world. So there's, like, young, like a people being educated, right? Who like aren't acting that way. We're also a city in the Northeast were like, you know, where we were, on the one hand, a cultural hub. And on the other hand, we have this thing which is an outwardly untrue, you know, I mean, it's, it's a thing that is it fueled by fucking events, you know, and you can say, Oh, it's just a few idiots or whatever, but the expression isn't a few bad apples. You know, our make the rest of the bunch fine. It's a few bad apple spoils the barrel. So everything's everyone's fucked if we're like letting this happen. So what's your experience been? Like? In that sense? Like, do you think Boston is that city? Or do you think what do you think?

Rayshawn Buchanan: 27:24

Yeah, I do think that there's moments when that does happen. So we've seen what Adam Jones will play for Baltimore. I know Barry Bonds has spoke on it. I know Odyssey and Risa LeBrons, Roswell, and most recently, and yeah, so I do think that stuff is valid. As someone who worked at TD Gardner who works at TD gotta have to say, I have seen moments of clips I've been on the floor when they have gone at athletes. And yeah, it's not always tasteful. It's not it's not I'm not gonna say I say this, you know, I'm someone who was a macro product meaning I'm, I'm a kid that was enveloped in the city. But what school in the suburbs I'm what's a bummer, shut up, shut up, shut up. So Murata nation. And there was times growing up when I felt like I said, Well, damn, I felt like I received more backlash in actually the inner city than I did even out there. But what I didn't realize was sincere. Yeah, exactly. It was it was, it was it was hidden racism, right. So whether it'd be a comment about my hair or comment about the other polls I had on it. Or once again, you will sit there and talk to me about sacred What should I try and just put in context shopping while chatting to us?

Dave Clarke: 28:34

We all love that album. Sure, but I'm

Rayshawn Buchanan: 28:38

like, Yeah, once you buy my we will talk about your when should I try and or, you know, talking about, you know, when a college dropout came out, but it's just like, Oh, you want to hang out afterwards? Aggressive? Oh, no, why can't we can't hang outside things. But we want a Super Bowl to culture. So that that was kind of kind of crazy. In the same breath. You know, shout out to the few to do so I think about my guy entered the vault, thinking oh, my guy Eric B. Burson burden flaberry. You made it he made it on the show a dog. Well, I think about two cars like that, that always open they're open their house to me their parents were so kind to me, but yeah, I do. I do think that you say almost

Dave Clarke: 29:14

nobody say it to your face and fucking says these days. Yeah.

Rayshawn Buchanan: 29:17

And that's, that's the biggest thing I think about just under roof in general, as opposed to like, another day I live in Florida. It is out there and open. They don't fuck with you, you're gonna know. And although that's scary to encounter, I rather that all day could I know exactly where we stand. Don't come around, put your arm around to put the proverbial arm around me. Don't be my friend. Don't try to embrace me. Don't do that. And this behind the scenes, you know, you're calling me every racial slur under the sun. Right. So that that, to me is where I think a lot of that happens up here. I think for him because he lived in a different time. Obviously. They were saying that sits his face. They will say that to his wife, they will say that says kids, and obviously it's an odd thing. I'm pretty sure that he had many moments where say, Yo, if you were to come at me, you know, you know remember that dad? Once again about the damage letter. This was like I'm a man for like, I pretty sure he was like, Yo, if you want to come with me that come at me like Don't Don't Don't try my family. Don't shy those that have my loved one. So but yeah, but in the same group, too. I do think yeah, I felt like I didn't know how to move around. But yeah, I mean, I'm thankful I haven't experienced too much. Once again, that's in my face. It wasn't permanent. You might have been lots of stuff behind the scenes, but I haven't experienced a lot of a lot of residents send my face thankfully, a lot of it's probably been hidden and stuff that I get to do a bottle of or didn't know but when you look down,

Dave Clarke: 30:38

you go like Oh Fuck yeah, yeah.

Rayshawn Buchanan: 30:41

Okay, Yeah, like, especially with the hair and once I got raised it was like it was a whole different thing. Like I hadn't shown it was cool, but it was like, oh, like, is this your real hair?

Dave Clarke: 30:49

Was this my fucking? Oh like

Rayshawn Buchanan: 30:52

okay like right like you know so So stuff like that gets gets a little little crazy but

Dave Clarke: 30:57

like you're saying essentially like you know yeah I mean you can't necessarily denying that like the city has its issues with it but don't pretend like that doesn't mean that like it doesn't exist insidiously somewhere else also, you know?

Rayshawn Buchanan: 31:09

Yeah I'm glad you said that to like, and once again that and this becomes a clip so be it whatever but I'm just this is it I felt like I'm speaking for both of us on this. Even though you're on the West Coast Tupac can't believe you don't know, it's just like, don't make Boston out to be the most versus city in America. Yeah, and I want that all while I'm that, that with this going on now with the with his passing. And obviously what LeBron said a few weeks ago it was kind of gay people. This is not the most recent racist city in America and we're not like that white. And once again, yes, it's not about Oh, well. I'm just saying that one's better than no I'm not saying one is better than the other I understand. You're not making it seem like this is the worst city of all time. You heard it

Dave Clarke: 31:52

here first folks. Boston's not the most racist city in America is just the worst at hiding. Just like everywhere

Rayshawn Buchanan: 32:03

you got poster here, they got home. Um, so it was a good morning here real people. They got home food I got they got I got burnt off fire. Like for Rose. So I'm just I mean,

Dave Clarke: 32:14

what are we talking about? It's like the same thing of like, you know, the conversation that came up, especially during 2020. But like it's always been happening of like, like the sort of insidious racism in like the education system. Like I remember learning about the Tulsa race massacre, which like Tulsa, I think you're like in the fucking lead for this, by the way for like half an hour's Yeah, but yeah, I remember learning about that, because I'm watching like watchmen on fucking HBO. And I'm like, wait a second. I'm like, oh, it's like a sci fi thing. You're creating, like an alternate universe like an asshole. And then we look it up, right? And it's like, oh, shit, this shit really happened. Like, and immediately. Like, I think a lot of people you get mad that like you weren't taught about it. Like what? Like, why was this not in any of the units or whatever, right? And then you start to realize like, oh, yeah, like there is this sort of the sort of insidious nature of this, which might actually be more important to talk about than like, what a drunk guy yells at a basketball game. You know what I mean? It's like, still not okay. I mean, obviously, and like I would the thing is, I wouldn't want this to be misconstrued as like, you know, Russell Westbrook should have to go to work and endure this bullshit. Like obviously not like of course not. But to your point about casting Boston specifically in this light and especially in regards to the guy we're talking about here. Yeah, I mean, he had to fight this fight. Did you have to fight fight cuz he was in Boston? Yeah. Little did you have to fight the fight? Because it was 1958 Yeah, a little. Exactly. Right. Because it wouldn't matter if it was if it wasn't Boston, and it wasn't 1958 He would have still had to fucking fight the fight so right it just it's sort of a thing that exists and like I think to try and sum it up or like put it in a fucking package like a city or or a group of people or anything is it's sort of detrimental to the conversation in general because it's like well, it's Yeah, sure. Okay. Like sorry about those

Rayshawn Buchanan: 33:56

histories about sort of having appears right yes. If Bob Walker never had people like Kenny innocence this happened or Adrian Griffith or Kevin Garnett perfect example, right. So a perfect example and I want to say this too. I do think there is some the tribe differentiator where I felt like there are some fantasy that I was there. I was on the floor. He walked by me, it was awesome. I do feel like there is some people that are white that say, well, there's some black people that I can't stand but you're not one of them. I know. That's just that no, like, no like, oh, just like oh, I know all the upside. That's something that's that's me. That's me that well, that is oh, we all fucked up. Is it? Oh, it's like ah, well, you don't like those you know? That Oh, so I'm with the government oh, what's

Dave Clarke: 34:48

your really what they're really saying is you know you what they're really saying that the kind of the problem with what they're saying is like, you're not one of the of the people that I've completely stereotyped in my head and I know nothing on this group, but now that I know about you as a person, you're fine. And that didn't like they didn't put the gap together. Like maybe, maybe this doesn't really

Rayshawn Buchanan: 35:10

exist. Like, right, right. Yeah, that's right. Crazy. Yeah, good. Insane, but no one wanted to go back to go granola so we went off the dock so that that that part was necessary to bring it up and hope that someone got some education and NACADA that's a way to do as well. He takes over as coach, then then you know, the Vietnam War begins, right. And, you know, there's a famous boxer how I'm bad, I'm pretty I'm damned. I'm the baddest man on the planet. You know? Mom and I Lee at the oh, he was already eight. He was eight already says his name was already had already got changed plates and so mom really and you know they were calling him Jack daju. And you know just add Mexican, every name under the sun. And you know, the Russell Jim Brown Kareem Abdul Jabbar, I believe. And I feel like I'm missing the boat. Yeah, but those are the guys that were up there, you know, supporting him. So, and once again, he's coach of the Boston Celtics at this moment, here still winning, they're still winning championships at this moment. So we're still dealing with that. But did all the did all he could to help out a friend in that moment. Because, you know, just pictures of Muhammad Ali coming up to Bowie now a Boston, shout out to sleds, I need to do I need to change our prices and your wings without the sleeves, normal sleeves, those sleeves back in the day. But now sleds is a nice little restaurant down in the south end district of Boston. So yeah, I just thought it was awesome that he still had all that stuff going on, and still made time to look out for other black athletes and just other black people in general who are doing what he was going through and chose once again, you can can you can always sit back, every black person or somebody who wants to talk in Sanders wasn't always talking. Casey Jones would always talk with Sam Jones always talking. You know, it just it takes a special person to lead and everyone cannot be on the front line. Some people do some behind the scenes look, that's what this guy did. But I'm thankful that he chose to say, you know, what I'm using this platform was one of the biggest athletes of this era. Maybe of all time eventually. Maybe he didn't know that then but you know, as we entered growing into, but let's be real he definitely got more love as he got older. Certainly when Muhammad Ali did not love them, right? Of course, they got older, it was like, Oh, you're just beloved figure this shit out. It's like, no. The video says otherwise. The styled outside my house say otherwise. This last time you say otherwise you don't say the gas lit of bottles. You're doing the door through the windows said otherwise, the 12 gauge shotgun that you have all signed by my daughter's room says otherwise. So inside let's let's not get let's let's not get it twisted. I forget where you know what it was. And you know, but like I said they they both became beloved figures, as they, you know, got older. But you know, and I say it's unfortunate, but I said it is what it is. But you know, that's that's just how it was. And you know, some things have changed. But we still have a long way to go. Yeah,

Dave Clarke: 38:13

I feel like that I feel like the the kind of juxtaposition especially between a guy like Bill Russell and a guy like Muhammad Ali is funny because, you know, as as kind of ostentatious as Bill Russell could be on the court. I think he was always sort of a soft spoken individual. I think he led a lot with his actions. I think that he especially as he got older, the kind of elder statesman role that he took on, I remember so clearly, like, he basically like fixed the Shaq and Kobe feud, right? Like, it's like, it's like wading in as like, the ambassador to Israel, and like fixing their fight with the Palestinians to that point in basketball history, you know, and I think that, like he wasn't at a time where so many things could could be so and I, you know, I say this as someone looking back on a time I wasn't there for but I can only sort of look through the lens of, of the historical facts as presented, but in a time where clearly, anything could be inflammatory, if you're a black person, anything out of your mouth, especially someone that was like, in a prominent role, you know, because that's another element of racism to right, where it's like, oh, he only has that job because blank, blank, blank, right? It's like, oh, I didn't get that job, because blah, blah, blah, you know, affirmative action, blah, blah, blah, like, I've just heard these conversations going on. And it's like, well, not that guy, because actually seven feet tall, and he can jump over your head. And that's why he gets that job, right? So it's this thing of like, become, become completely unflinching in the face of this criticism, because you're undeniable, you know, and I think like, Ali had that accomplishment as well. Like, I think that he just got up there and beat the fuck and breaks off everybody. So it's like, well, I don't know, fight him, then. What are you gonna do about it? You know, so, I think to you know, you have like the, at this time, you have the sort of the intellectual branch of this movement. Not this isn't to say that Ali and Bill Russell weren't intellectuals. But, you know, you have the Malcolm X's and you have the Martin Luther King's, but then you have this, this other side to it, where it's like, well, these people have risen to prominence not just in the black community, like they're not pastors at a black church, or you know, like organizers in a black community. They're there on your TV, and they like they can run and they can jump and they can fucking do cool shit and your daughters think they're cute. It's like they're fucking here to stay. You know what I mean? There's there's nothing you can fucking do about it. Like it's their unconquerable in that sense. Like they and they look like these fucking these giants of men. You know, like Muhammad Ali was a heavyweight fucking boxer dude. The dude is walking around and like fucking 265 like pure muscle in the 19 60s Like nobody looks like that they're black, white or whatever, like these students are walking around as as new specimens of athletes and you know, you can talk a little bit about what then happened in the 70s and 80s and the way that I think people made that more insidious with like the joke we always make of like, well he's the IQ guy and like he's the athlete and like all that bullshit whatever the time I don't know if people knew how to kind of comprehend the bill muscles of the world you know, and oh, nothing to be told they're so dumb. Yeah, right. Exactly. You know, that paved that paved the way for guys like Kareem who are coming up in a time where you know you can Yeah, you can go and get your fucking 25 at night but you can also go home and you can educate yourself on things and like when a microphones shoved in front of your face you like speak to you know, you speak very intelligently on these subjects and you know, like we talked before you got to be like twice as good as the guy that like might have gotten your job or whatever it's like yeah, these guys are paving the way for the next generation and the next generation the next generation to be able to sort of just keep elevating and being you know be give being given these platforms I just think it's fucking cool and I just like Bose is so cool man like everyone's sad that Bill Russell is dead everyone said it's not just like we were buying the thing you know we're Boston fans were it you saw though you saw on the internet all social media people you know Brock Obama be ugly. This is what students like I met him a couple of times he's fierce cool as fuck you know basically set it in like Brock Obama speak but like he was basically being like, guys fuck this sucks like you know and that's what everybody was sort of feeling because you know, I mean all the guys that hated him because he was black are dead now. So that's that's a positive he probably outlasted fucking all because he's just so I

Rayshawn Buchanan: 42:19

mean for me for sure. I mean, I would love my 80 years obviously. That's a long time before I get back into you know, the Southland stuff with him I want to get I want to I want to give a charge to some black athletes around the world right what as soon as I bring up these guys weren't stars but they tend to be NBA in the late 80s to like mid 90s So that's great hajus When you see them on the last dance briefly and then a mood bill the rules Who allowed you know if I'm not just finished as Chris Jackson from LSU played played on a team with Shaq and all as long as overthrow him how to DC current NBA The reason why I bring those two guys up those are two guys who became very militant in the NBA and saw the saw what was going on and it was calling out you know, you know, calling out the oppressor so to speak right and essentially got blackballed because they were calling out right so they wasn't gonna blackballed a Bill Russell because Bill Russell was a star it wasn't gonna blackballed Jim Brown because even though he was like she was a star. It wasn't a black ball. I mean a black woman humbly step but eventually they knew you know what, this guy is a draw. And we don't get Ali Frazier we don't get Ali form. They don't get category we don't get them now. They don't yeah, don't get it took three years off his career. You don't say it's probably right. It's fine. You know what I mean? Like yeah, you know, so Yeah, still still comes back couldn't be because world champion. So you know, I leave goombah you

Dave Clarke: 43:47

love. Separate Muhammad Ali podcast if you want. I'm here. I'm read I've read up.

Rayshawn Buchanan: 43:54

So as soon as you come back row, we got it. No, but I'm good. Like so to me. I'm important. I said, you know, and it can't just be LeBron. I think of a guy. I know. He's retired. I think about guys like the way I think about, you know, I don't I'm trying to get ahead. But I'm like, you know, just guys that are prominent figures that all are African American. Once again, we're not asking you to do to put together marches, when I asked you to build on his community says we shouldn't be dope, that's great. But when these issues arise, whether you're using Twitter, whether you're going on IG live, whether you're using spaces, like whatever, whatever platform you want to use, you will need to speak up on these injustice as and not just in a moment when it happens. But periodically, so whether it's whether you're sending a Foundation's, like you have to let your resources have worked for you for the benefit of others is not just about you, because once again roleplayers like Ime and once again and this is not a knock on one but the same way. It's just it's just the fact that he's a role player. Although Grant Williams is someone who was super articulate someone that I think is a hell of a speaker caliber young man. They're not put listens to him to say what else to a Jaylen Brown or, yeah, just say them. And it's just like, that's, that's what I mean, like Jaylen Brown is about it. So let me let me say I would have thought about my bride like Jaylen Brown was about that life. Dr. Brogden, who just got treated for is also about that life. So would you explain why they want the front lines?

Dave Clarke: 45:23

You know, would you extend that same mission statement to guys in in leagues like the NFL though because I feel like yeah, Brian Flores is the world like you get sucked out of like your dream job right?

Rayshawn Buchanan: 45:36

And that's what if you stand for nothing you fall for any thing. And I know and I understand that in the day, you got to take care of your family. So I get it. I'm not I'm not asking you to give up your livelihood, but at the same time, if you can't say something publicly, because because you know the backlash, fine startup startup or foundation, work awesome community centers, do do motivational speeches, when you're talking on forums like this. There's many other ways to be effective in the endless time because there's so many different platforms to have your voice heard, you know, whether it's on the front line or behind the scenes. So yes, I that's, that's just across the board. And but we also have the same breath. We also need, you know, once again, we have enjoyed this work, we know we're black and white, we need to have more conversations like this, where it's being put out there and not shying away from it. And once again, that's why I love about what we did about the show early on. We talked about Jake, we talked about Jacob Blake, I figured the other gentleman that that we did a show on as well. But we that's that's what we did. We didn't shy away from these moments early on. I mean, how we had a whole argument about meat tonight, I'm gonna be asleep. He texted us I look, you gotta be on the show. You gotta

Dave Clarke: 46:50

Yeah. But here's the thing, right? But here's the thing. This is, but this is, this is a thing, right? Because it's not, you gotta be on the show, because you're our fucking token black friend. You gotta be on the show, because you have a fucking perspective that we don't have. And then two weeks later, Bill Simmons and Ryan rasilla Do the most tone deaf fucking podcast in the history of podcasting, because there's two white dudes talking to each other. And they have no perspective. And they're the mean, well, I'm sure but they fuck up. And they have to say they're sorry. And it's like, yeah, well, you know what, it's not really because like, a lot of the requests, I think, coming from these movements, is just involve us in the fucking conversation. Do you know what I mean? Like, don't make these decisions, you know, based on what you think we want as a community don't make these decisions. And these and this, the, you know, the, the sort of moves and conversations that were not there. I mean, and it's like, why, right, exactly. You know, in the, in the, in the, when it comes to athletes, like look, the NBA is, is uniquely suited as so it was sort of my point about the NFL thing. It's like, like you brought the last dance, watch the last dance. The last dance is essentially dances around this a little bit, but it's essentially about how black culture and basketball in the 90s were one in the same and they're they intertwine and they speak to each other and one informs the other. And Michael Jordan's this fucking like, you know, unbelievable, phenomenal athlete, like complete, like, freak, that's like, no one's ever seen anything like that before and he's winning all these championships and like it, but it's like, oh, it's accepted. You know? Like everybody's wearing the fucking you know, the what would now be like vintage fucking bulls hats. Everybody's wearing the fucking starter jackets. Everybody's pumping up their Nikes. Right? It becomes a springboard to bring elements of black culture into the zeitgeist Right? Like it for everybody. But people are still taking that and leaving, like, I don't like black people. I mean, so it's like, you can't really have your cake and eat it too. You can't listen to K RS one one day, and they'd be like making fucking racist jokes with your friends the other day, it doesn't make any sense, right? So you like it? As an athlete, you've seen eras of your sport. I think this is what you're saying, correct me if I'm wrong, but you've seen eras of your sport, affect change? Right? You know, it's this, like, keep my keep politics out of my fucking sports thing. It's bullshit. Because that's just what people say when they don't want progress to be made. And like it's there, whether you like it or not, it's there. If if 70 plus percent of your league is black, it's there. If if part of the culture is of your sport is black, if not all of the culture of your pocket sport is black. If we're being quite frank, there, it's already there. You're either you're either choosing to amplify it in a positive way, or you're choosing to ignore it because you're scared and like, you can't, you can't have your cake and eat it too. You can't cash those checks from the NBA on the backs of people that are going to go outside and when they're not in the garden, or you know, in the Staples Center or whatever, they're gonna get treated like shit. It just doesn't make sense. So I would put that same charge that you put to athletes to the NBA to fucking white athletes. You know, I think there's some there's some of them that do speak up. I have liked a lot of what JJ Reddick said before he insulted Bob Cousy now he's not welcome with Boston anymore, obviously, but the but I've liked a lot of what he's said about it, you know, I mean, these are guys that spend a majority of their life around people of color in general, because of the thing that they do for a living. So they should fucking know better to you know, they shouldn't they should open their mouths to and not necessarily in the way I think that white people are prone to talk which is first and loudest, but maybe just be there with words and support for people, you know, the people that are experiencing the things that they're experiencing, you don't necessarily need to be like the leader of this bucket movement, because you don't like, you know, you're not right for the role. But we're gonna go in a different direction. Thank you so much for coming in and auditioning but you can be there and you can be supportive and I think that it's like it's not just black athletes that need to speak up. I think it's like the in owners and coaches and it's like, everybody's got to be sticking out the same hymn sheet man, because you're all making money off the same fucking thing. So,

Rayshawn Buchanan: 50:45

yeah, exactly. No, I don't know what we'll say. We'll leave it at that. So I want to get back to something else I saw on Twitter regarding but Russell so obviously, we know he went number six he had, you know, his jersey has been sold even at the pro shop now at city garden. So all someone's making the case for now his Jersey City University retired. So, you know, what are your thoughts on that?

Dave Clarke: 51:08

I think if there's anybody in basketball that has should have a universal retirement, it should be Bill Russell, I will you can make the case for Kobe, I think and like sort of what he's posthumously meant to the culture and like, how tragic it was the way that he died. You know, like, it wasn't just, I mean, I'm not saying it's good when anyone dies, but obviously, everyone has to so you want to be 88 and like die of old age, you don't want to like be with your daughter in a fucking helicopter crash, you know, so I, you know, I think that for what he did for basketball for what he did for the culture, like we've talked about, I think it makes good sense to to universally retirees jersey. And I think, I think that I think that if we're very careful about that. And I think that if we choose if we really pick and choose like who we do that with, I think you can actually make a real statement. I think if you start handing out that superlative to people that aren't Bill Russell, or of the Bill Russell sort of, you know, set level, you know what I mean? Like the kind of the thing we've been talking about this whole time, I think then you can keep that as a as a very valid and cool message as to why because then it people will always know about Bill Russell, but it'll preserve the idea of teaching when you teach your kid about basketball. You teach your kid about bills, so I think that that would be fucking cool. If that happened, to be honest with you. I'm gonna What about you?

Rayshawn Buchanan: 52:19

Yeah, cuz somebody was like, well, he's not he's not a Jackie Robinson because he wasn't the first well Jackie Robinson isn't the first he was the more famous Yeah. Oh, yeah.

Dave Clarke: 52:27

I don't know. It'll it'll apples and oranges. Isn't it? Like

Rayshawn Buchanan: 52:31

that's what people were saying. It was Yeah. JACKIE wasn't the first either but it's like Jackie, you know, you know, April 15 1947. Once again, if I attack remember that and my brain can't ever change baseball. So you know, but yes, but you know, shout out to so buckle Neil chapter satchel page, like, you know, you know, this, you know, cancer, the martyr shelter legalese. I get that there was other people that came and did the thing first, but Jackie Robinson, because he played it. He played in Brooklyn, played in New York, you know, played at Ebbets Field. It made it made it what it was, but it wasn't it it was well deserved. So let's be gentle on that. It was well deserved, but I just hate that it took for him to pass away to have that conversation. Yeah, obviously we know LeBron has made number six famous because he was able to sit down in Miami. She's down there too, from coming back and 23 I get that hell Miami has 23 retired in their arena for Jordan. Like to me like Jordan is another number that should be universally retires Welcome to eat. He is the Wayne Gretzky of the NBA. Let's be honest, angry. And I think almost

Dave Clarke: 53:35

silly when you see guys 23 Now they're right. It's like you're pretty good.

Rayshawn Buchanan: 53:39

I mean, there's no there's no, I mean, I can't think of another player. That made 23 iconic. Yeah, and once again, that's the one of the things that they but I'm like, you know, we're thinking about the 90s the next guy that I can think but that was a decent wearing 23 was Mitch Richmond and yeah, he was a two time all star but he was it wasn't near what Jordan was. He was free to guard for a while but he was he wasn't that guy but

Dave Clarke: 54:02

like Jayson Tatum was like I want 23 You'd be like Dude don't do that thing. Like yeah, no don't do that thing you're

Rayshawn Buchanan: 54:11

fine You're number zero for like you got a you know made it made us forget about Walter you know so did he oh everybody you're good but no I do is I just hated it took for him to pass away and for that conversation to even arise and things like go he did so much but that's fine. It just ties back to now he's getting all this love later in life but now he's passed away he's already started the combo Oh, like he didn't see did that like a story? I heard I thought this was a way I know you can do this while I was waiting to bring this up. So apparently it's just 1965 all will champion in his heyday chillin in Philadelphia the original warriors before they went to San Francisco 100

Dave Clarke: 54:53

point game they still Yeah, that's still a Golden State Warriors record now. Yeah, exactly. The the franchise so that's just crazy. But yeah, sorry. Go

Rayshawn Buchanan: 55:02

on, as well. Yeah, so won't champion has signed a three year deal. $400,000 Which, I mean, and now sounds like

Dave Clarke: 55:09

that's fucking money in the 1960s

Rayshawn Buchanan: 55:11

but um, yeah, that's that's Ime Udoka 3030 racks in Manchester and five. He was out here. He was out here live bait, okay. He was

Dave Clarke: 55:17

because he was flying to LA and we're in fucking mink coats and we went with like three chicks. And he was rolling into nightclubs like a fuck boss. Like, yeah, that must have been some money because like,

Rayshawn Buchanan: 55:27

yeah, so yeah, he was I mean, yeah. When a house was 2500 in the 60s. Yeah, exactly. You buy my house. Are you good? So you know, he gets that. So I guess, you know, Bill walks into the office is like, Yo, I'm not I'm not are coming back. And once I get to at least at least $1 more. So what does red do? Okay, three years 100,001 1000 He signs a deal at the end and he goes on. I mean, we saw the same thing with Oh, God was shocked with formando Yeah, you know, Alonso got seven years much money. And then they I think they gave Shaq seven years once when he wanted. He was like, Okay, coming to LA you know, saying so

Dave Clarke: 56:10

Shaq was all about his fucking back though people should have been as he should have been. Yeah, for sure. But he like he knew how to make his money, though, for sure. He was around on that front.

Rayshawn Buchanan: 56:19

Not at all, even to this day. And I love him for that. But no, so yeah, so that was that was a funny story. We got another one that I think about to this is like the NBA NBA star doing the war shows after the season. And so you know, they give it out the awards. And so the Russell just a lifetime achievement award in 2017 in 2018. So Kareem is up there. Hakeem Olajuwon was up there sacks up their thing magic again. For two hours was up there.

Dave Clarke: 56:47

Bill Russell's? Yeah, so

Rayshawn Buchanan: 56:51

he, he whispers he's like is a hot mic picks it up? And it was it everyone just fall laughing. So like, and he was he just really was a clown. And, you know, because Kevin Garnett talked about it so I guess they'll just start with them too. Like he I think that's a wonder before they want he was just like yeah, he's he's amazing. One of my favorite players and carries around it was like he was a he's a he's a you know, he was like you know you're you're trying to train people because you know, I made a really one of my favorite players may Allah he's a he's a he's a you make me proud on a regular basis man. So that that did that was just cool to see the interaction because mgkg were really close. I think behind the scenes and you know, we saw it when they want to championship so I got my own man I got my homes like he was having his grandfather. I got my whole pop. I got my Oh, that'd be that's exactly how it felt. So yeah, I gotta get I got to attend

Dave Clarke: 57:48

more than the parties I go to.

Rayshawn Buchanan: 57:52

Quickly that's that's so crazy to think about like, burn one three. I think have a check has eight. Yeah, who is he has eight because he was a he retired early. Sam Jones has eight sacks has eight. Eisen has eight. Um,

Dave Clarke: 58:08

I exotic, though, because I can't I can't I give Tommy a ring for the the Oh, eight announcements.

Rayshawn Buchanan: 58:13

Oh, gosh. Oh, naughty. Okay, cool. Wait, actually, that's a good place to lead me to because he was a coach. So he wants to

Dave Clarke: 58:21

use it because he was coach to the coach Kaizala love I think actually the Tommy Robinson record is I think that he's been involved with the Celtics in some way shape or form for all. I'm crazy. Like that's, that's fucking bananas. Like that guy. Missed that guy, too. Yeah, no,

Rayshawn Buchanan: 58:40

I, I think I guess the last one left this koozie I think everyone has passed away. A few years ago, a few years. Sam Jones, both Casey Jones, one of Joe fester. Casey Jones passed away.

Dave Clarke: 58:51

koozies is on the record right now. Okay, cool. Yeah,

Rayshawn Buchanan: 58:53

he's good. Yeah, he made it he made a comment about Reddit.

Dave Clarke: 58:56

Right. He was like, he

Rayshawn Buchanan: 59:00

was asked he was I

Dave Clarke: 59:01

just said, I mean, I get it. I feel like if Yeah, if you put JJ Reddick in a time machine and went back to the fucking 1800s or whatever. Bob Cousy is dribbling fug basketball on one hand, he's probably fucking lighten them up, I get that. But if you take Bob Cousy, and you take him as an embryo, and you make it born in like fucking 1990, I like and then you train them in basketball in the way that you train everybody else in basketball, and he like gets to fucking learn how to do all that shit and you give him like food that doesn't have like, I don't fucking know what they were making. The iron

Rayshawn Buchanan: 59:29

Cruzi was dribbling around, he was juggling around people in the 50s

Dave Clarke: 59:34

you also couldn't pick the ball up like you weren't allowed to turn your wrist when you dribble. I mean, I know this is getting into some basketball nerd level stuff. But yeah, you know, the reason that they make fun of players and those highlights because they're dribbling like this, which is essentially what I looked like when I drove like a basketball but they're dribbling like this you know, and they're letting it like bounce into their hand and like obviously when we're taught to dribble basketball you like palm and a little bit you try to take it you know you try to give it its own sort of like centrifugal force in your head and go with it a little bit and put it back down and that that lets players now kind of do all this crazy shit they weren't literally weren't allowed it was like a rule they couldn't turn their hand up like that because that was that was like you know holding the ball that was a travel you know you're holding the bone so that's why they fucking look like this just for everybody's like reference. I know I don't have any

Rayshawn Buchanan: 1:00:20

but those watching on YouTube right Yeah, exactly. That's definitely so

Dave Clarke: 1:00:24

I'm just saying like errors or difference is silly conversation. No, yeah,

Rayshawn Buchanan: 1:00:26

no, totally but we'll still habit will happen nothing

Dave Clarke: 1:00:30

will happen because we're right. Right. It's a It's silly when people are saying it because they're fucking wrong. Right.

Rayshawn Buchanan: 1:00:35

Exactly. So just any any any final words on you know, his legacy and Do just just just your thoughts about him overall. So,

Dave Clarke: 1:00:44

yeah, I mean, I just think that, like I said, I just think it's cool as fuck that he was a Celtic, you know, I'm sorry for the trouble that he had here for obvious reasons. Ah, I think that I'm really proud to say that we've had some people on in our organization and on our team that were great basketball players, but also great men. And I think, to sort of be able now to turn around and say to the players that play for organization, yeah, maybe you had some trouble here. And this should happen in LeBron says this, whatever. But look, this is what he accomplished. This is who he was. And these are the things he was doing when he was also fun and dominating in basketball. So that's, that's what you're here to live up to. You're not here to live up to anything else. You're not here to live up to all black and white footage of people dunking basketballs, you're here to live up to who he was as a man. That's what that statue means. That's what his legacy means. That's what it means. You know, we universally retire his jersey. It's, it's yes, he was a great basketball player in it. And you know, you can't take that away from him. But like who he was, as a person, I think was more profoundly more important. And I think that's the legacy he leaves and we should be so lucky.

Rayshawn Buchanan: 1:01:54

Yeah, for sure. So, listen, a group player, agree activists, a great human being Barbarossa, we thank you for 13 years, we thank you for the life that you lived overall, on and off the court. And like I said, you're yourself, the ones, you know, subjects for life. And once again, we're forever grateful for the impact that you left, not only on his organization, but in this world as a whole. So sort of a decay sizzle on Hollywood where Sean Buchanan and we will see you next time.