The 76er's Process is a Complete Failure as Doc Rivers Fails Again, Ime Udoka's Introduction, and Way Too Early NFL Predictions

Craig D'Alessandro: 0:24

On this episode we're missing the point we'll check in on the NBA is the matchup so the Eastern and Western Conference Finals between the Milwaukee Bucks and Atlanta Hawks in the east and La clippers and Phoenix Suns in the West are well underway. We'll talk about how the Philadelphia 76 are screwed up the process and just about every way imaginable from the draft of the head coach, and might take the victory lap on Doc Rivers. We'll also discuss new Boston Celtics head coach, he may have broke his introductory press conference and discuss what impressions he left on us and the team. And lastly, you will check it on the NFL as we give you some way too early season projections for both the New England Patriots and the Chicago Bears. This is missing the point, Episode 70. But it's all relative.

Dave Clarke: 1:20

Hello, and welcome into missing the point I am your host DK sizzle Dave Clark, rare occasion that I'll be hosting because I am not as well equipped to do the job as some of the other folks here at missing the point. But due to the ever increasing issues with scheduling that are happening, now that the panda is over, or we're heading towards post Panda, I don't I'm not a doctor, I'm not declaring it over but we're heading to the words post pandy life so people have stuff to do except for me. So here I am with graciously Mike Marcangelo wanted me to host today. And it's just the two of us. Also, Craig is here producing making magic behind the scenes we actually funny enough did a show recently for the first time where Craig was like, Okay, I'm gonna let you guys do the show. And just press record and then like, send me that the files. And it was a good example of why it's good to have Craig here because we fucked up the video. Like we had like three different technical difficulties go on. It was a whole thing. And I had no idea what time it was. By the time we were at like an hour and 15 I was like, How long has this show been? I don't know.

Craig D'Alessandro: 2:24

Your parents still sounded pretty good after I was done with it, though.

Dave Clarke: 2:26

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. After Yeah. After we got it home. You know, he cleaned it up. And that was nice. But I'm sure it was more work than usual. not watching

Craig D'Alessandro: 2:34

about the same.

Dave Clarke: 2:36

Fine, whatever. Yeah, whatever. Craig. Sir,

Craig D'Alessandro: 2:39

we don't need me after all.

Dave Clarke: 2:40

No, we need you. That's what I was trying to say. I just did a whole like, what like long thing about how nice it is that you're here behind the curtain. But anyway, I'm here with Mike. I'm here with Craig. And we're going to talk about a lot of different stuff. But we're going to start with the National Basketball Association, which we've been talking about a lot lately, obviously, because it's been a pretty exciting playoffs, like a lot of stuff has happened. There's been a lot of stuff to talk about. But there is two Conference Finals going on right now. And they both look. One looks a little bit more decided than the other. So like, let's talk about that. First. The Phoenix Suns are up three one right now on the Los Angeles Clippers. And, Mike, you're right. You're right. It's like, I know, like, I mean, Doc, sixer's.

Michael Marcangelo: 3:21

Yeah. Like, trust me, and we'll get to that, like I cannot wait to just to just have my way with that. But I mean, you can forecast injury like you'd like to Kawhi Leonard as well, when you have a guy who's who in the regular season was averaging 25.6 rebounds and five assists in the postseason, he was 37 and four. How do you replace that? How do you make up for that? Right. And I think if they can bring this to six games, that's a very valiant effort from a team that I think we learned a lot about that was down to Oh, twice as postseason, and just never gave up, which was something that they had a hard time doing under previous regimes. Yeah, I don't know what you can do. I think one of the like, one of the quotes that I read from one of the one of the four letter networks was with an injured Kawhi Leonard again, watching from a suite, the Clippers outscored the sons 30 to 19, and the third after trailing by 16 in the first half. And they still lost.

Dave Clarke: 4:15

Paul George, you know, I mean, I mean, it's like, as much as Yeah, I think it might be a different series if Kawhi Leonard didn't get hurt, of course, because like you said, I mean, his numbers speak for themselves. And like, he's quiet, Leonard. But Paul, George is not a winner to me, you know, I mean, he's missing these big free throws at the end of games. And the thing is, he's having good games, he's having good solid games going into these situations. And then he's, he's choking at the end, you know, and he's kind of letting his team down in that sense. And like this, they they are so much better than the suns on paper, you know? Like with Kawhi, I should say with Kawhi. Like you would never think at the start of this series. This is how this is going to go. But on paper also you think Paul George should be able to get you through this. Like everything you know about Paul George, He's a real he's supposed to be a real all star. You know, he made the third team all NBA ahead of Jayson Tatum. Would you rather have Jayson Tatum right now trying to win you to series or Paul George? I would take Tatum all day, but

Michael Marcangelo: 5:08

yeah, Tatum eight days a week. I think, Paul George is what we've learned over the course of his career and you maybe you disagree, he's just softer than baby shit like he's terrible. He not only I think he's one of those. He's one of those that he puts up all the right stats in the regular Season. I mean, you might even surprise you with a couple with a couple of games in the postseason. But in the bubble, he sucked. He was awful. He was one of the reasons why they lost. And I think what one of the things that have been able to help the Clippers come back from, you know, down to Oh, is that they have a winner on the team. They had Kawhi who's recently won a championship so he knows what it takes. Now when that guy is not even sitting courtside. It's hard to manifest it. And if Paul George and again, he's 1000 times the athlete that I am remember that if he's your best player and a game time decision, you're so screwed. Like, remember those Indiana teams?

Dave Clarke: 6:01

Yeah,

Michael Marcangelo: 6:02

he couldn't do it. He could not do it. He still can. What about that one time? It wasn't even OKC with that with Carmelo Anthony

Dave Clarke: 6:09

with Westbrook

Michael Marcangelo: 6:10

Westbrook sorry yeah. Also couldn't do it.

Dave Clarke: 6:13

Yeah, well, you know I don't know his fault that was more but I agree but it's it's interesting you bring up though because you do bring up the the previous comeback in the last series and I do want to talk about that because we have a Chris Paul who has blown a three one lead before Yeah, we have Phoenix Suns team that are kind of maybe you know, Devin, but I mean not crisp, obviously. And it's great to have a veteran leader especially one I think is who has the record that Chris Paul has as a leader but there's a lot of young players on that team Devin Booker's young and the Clippers did just come back and I think I you know, I saw a presser with Ty Lue. And he I think he's a pretty good coach. You know, I know we everything was everybody was lining up to suck his dick after the last comeback. I get that. But like, you know, I do think he's a good coach. If he gets them to 3-2 how much does the balance shift in your head? Because then that narrative that he's obviously calling on last series, Chris Paul's blown away like this before, like, also Chris Paul, at any point, could just miss two or three games, you know what I mean? And so if they you know, if they do get back to three to like, do you think that's bodes badly for the Phoenix Suns?

Michael Marcangelo: 7:20

Oh, I think it's a, it's an interesting point in the terms of like, it'll, it will be a good talking point, but the chamber is empty, you still don't have Kawhi. But you need the manpower to overcome that lead. And like, are we trying to get ourselves here? Do we think that they come back to Oh, without Kawhi? Because I don't know.

Dave Clarke: 7:36

I think that's a big hill to climb at this point. I honestly, I think they're gonna go out. I think they're gonna go out and five at this. Like, that's, that's how I see it going down.

Michael Marcangelo: 7:43

Me too. But if you push it to six that shows the strength of the coach and the strength of the character on that team, but with losing probably a top four or five player in the world. And you're still able to push push the series to six. But yeah, I think it's over. But I also just to kind of talk about this, I think we've reached the point of Chris Paul's career, where he's at the Kevin Garnett 2008 Celtics moment, right? Like, you only be a choker for so long, you can only want that championship and to taste a finals appearance for so long before it consumes you. And I think if you look back, and you know, maybe three or four seasons ago, Chris Paul doesn't make the free throws at the end of game for like he did this season. So I think it's, I think, I think now it's to the point where all right, I've missed it for so long. This is not going to be how what up like my final story written about me, I'm going to get there. I'm going to be the reason that we do.

Dave Clarke: 8:38

Yeah, it's a lovely story. I mean, if Chris Paul does make his first finals, and then goes on to win his first fight, I think that would be awesome. And the reason but the reason I'm saying you were right before is it's like you did say that Doc Rivers was not a very good coach.

Michael Marcangelo: 8:52

Correct? Well, he's an overrated coach.

Dave Clarke: 8:55

Sure, sure. Sure. And like playoffs all that stuff. We've heard it but Ty Lue came in and he was basically credited as the reason why they came back in that last series. I know the answer his question already. Well, if that's Doc, do you think that's Do you think that's why they were able to come back or do you think it was like Kawhi Leonard because if that's doc you think I think they probably lose that series right?

Michael Marcangelo: 9:16

Yeah. So I think like if we're assuming that they're down 0-2 I think the Clippers lose that series for one if Doc's the head coach, but if you're asking me like, what if everything is the same? They do come back then I think it's I think it is Kawhi and I still think i think i wrote I think Lue is a great coach. I think maybe not a great great an overstatement. I think he's a really good coach. I think it always helps to have an all-world talent. And you see that when you when you do you, you see it and not for nothing but the southern stands understand like it also looked like that Kawhi Leonard, listen to Lou. Right that he lose the room. So it always helps to have a bought in all world talent when you're down in those situations. And right now, they have a nice name and Paul George who might buy in but I just don't think intrinsically he has it in him to do the type of things that Kawhi Leonard did.

Dave Clarke: 10:12

Well, let's say about the East for a second, you know, so we can start moving in that direction to the Doc Rivers/76ers years conversation in that series is going a little surprisingly honestly when I saw Atlanta take game away from Milwaukee in Milwaukee. , they have a pretty good fan base over there. Like I think that's a tough place to go. There was a lot of like in the last series against the Nets, there was a lot of like cutting to that like, whatever they call like a Deer park or the mulch, elk or whatever the fuck they call it, where there was like a shitload of people standing outside watching the big screen, which I just would like never do in a million years. It's like I'm either going live to the event, like to like see a live event, or I'm gonna watch it from the comfort of my home with my life massive TV that we all have now because TVs cost like $8 to make in China, and like with like, whatever I want to drink and I don't have to like stand next to strangers. I'm not even talking about COVID I just fucking hate that. Like, I don't even get a chair. I don't get it but yes, great. You show in support, they smashed them that like in a comeback win then and in Atlanta immediately took the game back. And like I've talked a lot of shit about the Milwaukee Bucks and Giannis Antetokounmpo specifically because I thought as much as you know, we've talked about this at nauseam as much as they beat the nets. I thought Kevind Durant was absolutely styling on them for seven games. Even when he wasn't garden them. It was just diminishing honest to me, I think this is the honest, his best chance to win a finals with who's left with who's left in the landscape of the playoff picture. And they actually look pretty serious. Like they look like they seriously want to win this series. Now Trae Young is out I think confirmed out for game four with a bone bruise because you've stepped on the referees foot which was a very strange moment, but like it happened. And there's nothing you can really do about it. Right? This is a referee, where do you see the series going? I feel like momentum is switched. And do you think whoever comes out of this series is going to be the team to deal with?

Michael Marcangelo: 11:55

I mean, if Trae Young and camp play, then I think that it's over. I think because I think this is a must win game. I didn't know Oh God, as we're recording this, I didn't see that the final items have been set. But everything that I'd seen, had said that I

Dave Clarke: 12:10

wasn't looking good, but even

Michael Marcangelo: 12:13

he said I'm gonna play again. Lee Yeah, it's a bone bruise. It's a weird injury, I get it. But I think if you know Hawk fans, when they when they saw him react the way that they did when you ended on the referees foot they probably thought worst case scenario, this guy's you know, toast. But I think that this is the type of situation where, and because just the type of player he is right? If he can walk he's going to play. Now, the problem that I would see is that, you know, in the course of the regular season in the playoffs, he's averaged 30 points that assists but the most important thing is 38 minutes a game, right? I don't know if he's going to play 38 minutes tonight. So how do you replace those minutes? And do you have enough on the bench to withstand the run, the Milwaukee Bucks will inevitably go on when Trae Young is off the floor?

Dave Clarke: 13:01

I don't think the Hawks do now. I mean, I think they're a plucky young team. And I think that behind the level that Trey Young was playing that they were competing, and they made it this far for that reason. And I think that that's pretty obvious. And like, you remember game one, Trae Young went absolutely insane you know, like Bobby was freaking out in the group chat like he should be. He should be in before he shoots incredible and I'm like it is it was a really impressive game. Yeah, for me. I know. I'm like I'm an old fuddy duddy. Like for me it's like I hated the Golden State Warriors so much because I just thought they were like a cheat code when they were really good and like Steph Curry and Klay Thompson splash brothers every shot went down. It felt like they had like unlocked or broken basketball in some ways, man. Oh, can I just like I just want to watch like grimy 90s 73-78 final score like drive it down low everybody fight for the ball yell at each other like post up drive and dish all that kind of stuff. That's my kind of as well just like it better. It's circus basketball, that that kind of shit. But it's undeniably crazy. When you get a Steph Curry who's a once in a lifetime you think type player and then you look at Trae young calm you're like damn, like I don't know if he's going to be as good as Steph but and I'm not saying that like nobody freak out. But like the level of shooting in the NBA has gone up so much like people can score from anywhere and like he can do that, you know, and he's actually pretty good. He's got pretty good handles and everything else too. And he's a massive shit talker which I like it's disappointing if we lose him from the series. I hope he stays in there so you can compete you know, because I think that his competitive nature is a lot of what's driving them.

Michael Marcangelo: 14:34

Yeah, I mean, I think so. To the to your first point like if this version of Trae Young was on that version of the Warriors is I mean, is there any difference? I think comparatively speaking for this postseason run that he's on that level. I'm not saying that he is a Steph Curry but it looks like he could mimic what happened then now

Dave Clarke: 14:51

Yeah, cuz he can just go insane right like Steph used to be able to do it and it's like holy shit we can't do anything you remember the Celtics plan that the the Warriors on that run when the warriors have won like their first 18 games or some shit? And we like battle them and we took them to overtime and they like they want an overtime that they lost the next exact game. It's like that's like it Trae Young be kind of going to become the guy you want to be if he keeps playing like this. Yeah, like Steph did in the West and it's like oh shit like we need to like I've just been like begging them to to build for Giannis Antetokounmpo and Joel Embidd for the last few years and now like trade Young comes out of here. When I say that my obviously I'm in Celtics. I've been begging the Celtics to build for like these type of big man like lengthy big man post up like post play playmaking type guy. And then Trae Young is like, that's Steph Curry the east. And I'm like, well, wouldn't whatever, I don't even care. I quit. Like, I don't even know what to do. Now. You know what I mean? I do kind of think we were mentioned all right against it just because of the way in our shooters, but like, yeah, I mean, like, I don't know, I would love to see and I think Bobby made this point before I would love to see a Trae Young Devin Booker, Chris Paul finals. And I think that's why I'm rooting for the Hawks and I but I also am on record for hating the books. I hate the way they play basketball.

Michael Marcangelo: 16:02

Yeah, I also think like that game one, when Trae Young posted 48 points. I think the other monumental portion that I don't know I'm sure that you do know because you are well, well more versed in the NBA than I am. But that was the first Eastern Conference win for Atlanta since they moved to Atlanta in 19 Cinema it

Dave Clarke: 16:19

might be true, I don't know. But I just know that I don't remember them ever being good

Michael Marcangelo: 16:22

53 years in between the conference finals victories

Dave Clarke: 16:27

thats wild

Michael Marcangelo: 16:28

so i but i think you know, when you have a situation where a heart You know, where Kyrie Irving goes down James Harden is hurt LeBron James Anthony Davis, they're out. You know, the NBA needs to create a new star have a new focal point. And it felt like that this round was going to be the Trae young show, right? He was, this was his real coming out part on a prominent stage. And now it would just suck to see that he's either limited or he can't play.

Dave Clarke: 16:55

Yeah. And also I was born when Kyrie and Duran and hard and went out because I was like, I like when the good players are still playing when my team is not in you know, but Trae Young. There you go. Like, he filled that void. So I do hope he comes back. And as a good sir, I want that to be a good series. I don't want that to end quickly, because it looks like the other ones gonna end in five. So we'll see.

Michael Marcangelo: 17:15

Can I ask you a question? Since we were talking about the Hawks and in the books?

Dave Clarke: 17:19

Yeah.

Michael Marcangelo: 17:20

But with all the prominent injuries, right, how much? Let's say that the books go on until right when people discount this victory for Giannis Antetokounmpo because there's no Kyrie Irving there's no LeBron James, there's, you know, there's an injured Trae Young, and there's no Kawhi Leonard.

Dave Clarke: 17:33

I mean, it's tough, right? Because it's like, I always bang that drum, like you can only play what's put in front of you. Yeah, if people shit for like, you know, winning series that they like, should win. But at the same time, like, there was a lot of red flags for me from Giannis Antetokounmpo, when there was adversity put up against him. And he did get kind of lucky with the injuries that happened with Brooklyn in saying that I do think he wants to win. I think he's a competitor. And I think he would have given I think you would have had similar games, regardless of the competition. And I think that if the Bucks did go down, it wouldn't have been his fault. It would have been the coach's fault, because that coach is not very good, as we saw in the Nets series.

Craig D'Alessandro: 18:08

Oh Yeah.

Dave Clarke: 18:08

So you know, it's hard because, you know, everybody goes like, Oh, you got to put it on the best player. Like, it's that Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant mentality, where it's like, he's got to be the one who gets it done. And like, Ray and I argue about this all the time, where he's like, Nah, you got to put, you put that same scrutiny on Jaylen Brown and Jayson Tatum. And it's like, I always argue, it's like, that's because that's my team, you know, I can look at another team and be like, Hey, I don't know, man. I mean, he's pretty good. And he's doing his best. So what do you want? With Jaylen Brown and Jayson Tatum I'm like, you need to fucking be better. So, you know, I it's a tough question to answer and I and but I bet Giannis Antetokounmpo wants to play the best, you know, I don't think that he's looking for people get injured. He or he's looking for escape. He's not scapegoats like excuses, like he's not looking for excuses to or whatever so, and I don't think that about a lot of players in the NBA right now. And I do genuinely think he is a competitor I don't love how they build a team around him. I don't love the coach and you know, there are rivals so like Boca and Green Bay. You know, just all right over there. So yeah, bad bad coach, bad coach, which I hope you know he I think he's in the from the Gregg Popovich family.

Michael Marcangelo: 19:14

So So does that mean you want him to win? Or do I want

Dave Clarke: 19:17

it but like, I'm like, I will talk about our new coach later, but it's like it doesn't that doesn't bode well. So moving on. Finally, now, we were supposed to get to this last show. But we're going to talk about the Philadelphia 76er's and why we shouldn't say that the accumulation of draft picks in or tanking in order to accumulate draft picks. So you get franchise players year on year is not necessarily a bad idea on paper, like communism, on paper, it seems like a really, really good idea because then no one has less right. But in practice, it can get fucked up really easily as we know. So they accumulate all these draft picks and the basically the first thing they do is they go out and get Joel Embiid in 2014 to 2014 Nba draft. They are going to build the entire franchise around Joellen bead right, not a bad draft pick. If you look back on 2014 draft, they picked her well and be third right. Andrew Wiggins and Jabari Parker get picked before him. Totally fine. They did really well. There. I think they picked the best guy out of the top three after him. Aaron Gordon Dante Exum and Marcus Smart Julius Randle, Nik Stauskas, Noah Vonleh and Elfred Payton. They picked the right guy, you know, picking Joel Embiid, I think out of that top 10? That's correct. Unless, you know, I don't know, we're not going to get into like making moves or packaging deals wherever like you go get the right guy. You did good, right. This is where it gets bad. thoughts. If the next year, right, it's the 25th of June 2015. There in Brooklyn, New York. And with the third pick, in the 2015 NBA Draft, Philadelphia 76th, select Jahlil Okafor out of Duke. Karl Anthony Towns in DeAngelo. Russell went before him, they're both better than him, obviously. But they didn't get a chance to pick him. That's okay. They couldn't got neither of those guys. No problem. Let me read you off a few of the guys that came after that. kristaps porzingis went 4

Michael Marcangelo: 21:20

pretty good.

Dave Clarke: 21:21

Especially in his first few years right here. Like would have been great in those first few years together, right? There isn't like a ton after that. But Devin Booker constrasting 13. So it makes me think, you know, like, I don't really remember that drive and makes me think nobody really knew that Devin Booker was gonna be that good. But damn, now you start to build.

Michael Marcangelo: 21:42

Where did the Celtics draft in 2015? Because they miss on Booker too. We missed. Yeah, we missed number three draft. Oh, three picks later, which Yeah, that's wrong. But like, that's not what this is about. Mike, you're right.

Dave Clarke: 21:57

That happens again, by the way. That happens again. I didn't even notice that. It's a collection

Michael Marcangelo: 22:03

of draft picks. This fits your story.

Dave Clarke: 22:05

Yeah, so collection of draft picks. So what I'm trying to do is I'm trying to build you a team. That could have been what the process could have been. So right now we have a potential best case scenario of we have Joel Embiid and Devin Booker on the same team right now in 2021. If they've drafted like more correctly, we can agree on that. So we go into the 2016. Right. They have the first pick the first pick, and it seems go on to select Ben Simmons now. Unbelievable ball handling great playmaker, great vision can't shoot couldn't shoot his way out of a fucking paper bag and is getting his draft stock just plummeted after his recent playoff performance. They could have had. Third, they could have had Jaylen Brown. And everybody shade on the Jaylen Brown pay. I just like to say even Celtics fans are shitting on the Jalen brown pay. Yeah, obviously. Now, if someone were to come up to you and ask you, would you rather Ben Simmons or Jaylen Brown you would say

Michael Marcangelo: 23:07

Jalen Brown.

Dave Clarke: 23:08

Yeah. 100%. So now we're building this team. And potentially this team could be Joel Embiid Devin Booker and Jaylen Brown. So just so far, just so far,right?

Michael Marcangelo: 23:20

It gets worse.

Dave Clarke: 23:21

It gets so much worse. So you're looking at this team already, right? You're looking at this these top three teams. One, if they pick Jaylen Brown, we end up with Simmons or someone else in that top five. None of them are as good as Jaylen Brown. It hurts the Celtics, one of their biggest rivals in the if they get Devin Booker, sure it hurts like a West team, whatever. But

Michael Marcangelo: 23:44

they would have had their big three and consecutive draft. So what you're saying 123

Dave Clarke: 23:48

and Devin Booker, what have they had this whole time point guard problems they've had to put because then they put all that money on Bledsoe and my grandmother could have told you the beds but so it was just a really good bench guy. That was so obvious, especially when hit and then to remember him and Terry rozier going at each other in that one Klaus like in the Battle of like the who's the more average point guard.

Michael Marcangelo: 24:08

Right here might be better though. rozier might be better than Bledsoe. Yeah, he might happen.

Dave Clarke: 24:13

I agree. And he I actually think it would kind of be nice if he still had him and I actually never I never disliked him. It was just that one game seven or eight he shot like, oh 484 Yeah. So we have this team now right? It's a great big three it's would even be a big three Mike would be a big six if we keep going right so given we go on to the 2007, NBA 2017 NBA Draft with the first pick and get back to back first round first pick, and they they have they already have these three guys right? In our fantasy. With the first pick. They pick Markelle Fultz and they immediately change his jump shot. Yeah, Markelle Fultz in and they're like please change your jump shot. They could have still whiffed on this draft, if we allow them a whiff on this strap. But guess how bad they fucked up. Lonzo Ball goes second, still a better pick the Markelle Fultz obviously like even if they had the book to Lonzo at one and beat at the four or the five or whatever. And Jaylen Brown at the three. It's still they've got a champion so Chico's

Michael Marcangelo: 25:18

skill set doesn't match up with what that team was currently constituted. They

Dave Clarke: 25:21

don't even know what Markelle Fultz his skill set was to be honest with you.

Michael Marcangelo: 25:24

What was a jump shot but then they changed it

Dave Clarke: 25:26

so real real real weird real rubber the whole thing. Lonzo ball goes second Jayson Tatum goes there

Unknown: 25:35

they had the first big they had the first okay so we

Michael Marcangelo: 25:38

traded them that first pic right because

Dave Clarke: 25:39

we yeah we swapped out and it felt good at the time I remember being like I don't want Lonzo ball because his dad was a moron. Yeah, but he was also like he wants to be a Laker he's gonna be a Laker. I would take Lonzo now because is that a his dad's gone quieter and be the Lakers already didn't work out

Michael Marcangelo: 25:54

over Jayson Tatum?

Dave Clarke: 25:55

No, no, no, no. Oh, God. No, no, I'm just saying like, he's a free agent next year. I keep talking about how it'd be cool if we had god no, not over Jayson Tatum sound close. So best case scenario now for this team. You should have Joel Embiid, Jaylen Brown, Devin Booker, and Jayson Tatum on the same team. This is the process in its best form right now. And I don't know when by the time they get Tatum. I don't know who's beating them in the finals. And when he maybe only brought an ad that one year? I don't know. But that's a crazy team already. Right. All right now, and there's all these other caveats. Right? Who were the coaches? Would Devin Booker have emerged the same way if he was surrounded by all this, like similar talent? Do you need some other veteran guys in there? Can you build a team like this? Sure, whatever. But we're just we're doing a fantasy draft right now. So it is what it is right? Jayson Tatum. There was a few other guys they had Zach Collins was in that draft. Donovan Mitchell was in that draft. Bam Adebayo is in that draft. Even if they whiffed on Tatum, Jared Allen was in that draft, you imagine like

Michael Marcangelo: 26:56

you haven't bead and then they have Bam coming off the bench

Dave Clarke: 27:00

to play with the four in the five it wouldn't be.

Michael Marcangelo: 27:02

There you go. There's your starting bias in history. Yeah, there's just 25

Dave Clarke: 27:07

Yeah, so that tells me this is that was the worst one. It doesn't really get much worse than that. Because after that, they start drafting a little bit lower. They still have high draft picks, like they still have but it's like hard for them to tank at this point. Yeah. So they still have you know, yeah, they said the 10th. So they take Mikal Bridges , which is terrible. Shai Gilgeous-Alexander was right in there, right there. 11th 11th. And they could have had him that would have been such an ideal just

Michael Marcangelo: 27:31

makes you wonder, not only like, what are they looking for before they draft it, but when they draft the player? Where do they think that that player is going to fit in?

Dave Clarke: 27:40

So this is exactly what I'm talking about? And this is what it the conclusion it led me to the process was an idea with no plan or execution. It was the fucking blind leading the blind the entire time you brought you bring up an excellent point. It felt like they were drafting. They were doing like, you know, the way you guys always talk about like the Bill Belichick draft system. And in football, it works. It's like yes, we have a really good strong safety but the best available players a strong safety like we'll figure it out. They were kind of trying to do that a little bit, I think, because Markelle Fultz , if you remember at the time was on paper, of really high prospect like it was like everyone was going they're gonna he's gonna go in everyone. They kept picking the number one guy that ESPN was telling them was the number one guy and then you whip on Jayson Tatum. You know,

Michael Marcangelo: 28:25

but there's like a reason that Stephen A doesn't draft. He just comments on them.

Dave Clarke: 28:29

You shouldn't listen to him like,

Michael Marcangelo: 28:30

sure. But okay, so if you're going to draft Markelle Fultz , let's just call those Scott what it is, if you're going to take him you take him because of what he does, you don't then instantly change what he does, and eliminate all of his value because he was he didn't stand a chance in his first year.

Dave Clarke: 28:49

They voted this high to like he didn't have the mindset to go number one overall. And you should be able to suss that out like talk to him you know what I mean? Like I really strongly feel you should be able to sit across from somebody and be like, Oh, I don't know something's not quite right there. Watch Draft Day

Michael Marcangelo: 29:07

better for worse though, like you know, you don't love them. Oh, I didn't love his dad, but like Lonzo could have gone number one, he was ready for that light. Tatum. He could have got number one too, like they were both just built for it. Right? They they have been the prime for this their entire life. But I think it's criminally negligent. What they did to Markelle Fultz into their entire roster, right because of what they could have had.

Dave Clarke: 29:28

Right? The big one and that the big problem with that and draft and you have to use Danny Ainge credit for this. There was multiple landmines in that draft, because I don't know if you remember that guy from Kansas, Josh Jackson. That's who every Celtics fan you talk to wanted, by the way. Oh,

Michael Marcangelo: 29:44

I remember that.

Dave Clarke: 29:45

Every Celtics fan you talk to you wanted him and it was just like I could. He had so many red flags. So I'm surprised that he had so many red flags. I'm surprised the Sixers didn't draft him to be quite honest with you because of like, their focus. So it's not as bad we said they could have had Shai Gilgeous-Alexander , which is a tough game for me to say because there's a lot of syllables in it, but he's a very good player. They could have Michael Porter Jr. That year. Grayson Allen might have been good on that team. You know, Mikal Bridges like No, it's just not my cup of tea. I said, I said Troy Brown Jr.

Michael Marcangelo: 30:17

Some other good guys. Just if you just think about like, just the draft picks that you just mentioned. Yeah. And then you talk about The players that actually were there like the JJ Reddick like the Al Horford later, right, those two would have been perfect complementary players to the team that you that they could have built. And they just for whatever reason, they just elected not to. And not only that, but they drafted a generational talent like can be. Yeah, never motivated him to be the best that he absolutely could be.

Dave Clarke: 30:49

But those are another series of mistakes, right? Like they didn't get the personnel in to, to motivate and get the best out of a generational talent. Like you're just saying, that's like, that's another organizational failure. You know, like, that's front that comes from the top and like, now, I'm going to we're going to get into Doc Rivers, because I've been since we started this podcast, it was one of the earliest things you said, and it was designed specifically to fuck with Rayshawn and in his brain. Yep. And it was funny. And I never gave it much if I'm being honest with you. Now, I never gave it much thought because I was like, Well, my immediate reaction when somebody says something bad about dog Riveters is I'm like Doc Rivers and butuh like we finally won a championship because the dog rivers, I remember his huddles, I remember his like raspy voice like yelling and Kevin Garnett and like hard coaching with like these vets, right. But then he, he did exactly what you said he was gonna do this season. You're like, he's gonna have a really good, regular season. And I you know, this is on tape. You guys can go back in the show notes. And be a previous show show that link to it will be in the show notes. And Mike, I think basically word for word was like, I think they're gonna be no more of these. They're gonna have the best regular season of any team in the east, maybe in the NBA. I think they're gonna look really good. I think he's gonna get more out of Embiid and then be it's gonna be like, in good shape. And then you were like, and then they're gonna lose in the first round. I was like, No way. No way. And like, even Ray the other day, I forget if he said it to you, and you weren't on the show or on the show. But he was like, Yeah, you're right. You're right. Like, I forget what the format was, when he said it to you. But he was like that Mike was. So

Michael Marcangelo: 32:28

yeah, you're right, Mike. About doc. It's ridiculous. I'm done. And

Dave Clarke: 32:33

Mike knows exactly what he said, because he's had it blown up and framed and it's on a wall.

Michael Marcangelo: 32:38

It's off camera, but I'm gonna tell you, I'm just here to tell you that I told you. So. And this. I really want you to listen to this and just make sure that you know, it does not diminish what he did while he was here, right? Because he did want a championship He sure did. And he took three Hall of Fame players that were hungry for that championship to also win it. But also remember that when he left the Celtics he left because he didn't want to be part of a rebuild. He wanted to he wanted to not only be the coach but also pick the players that he would coach.

Dave Clarke: 33:10

We did trade in fairness, we did trade him,

Michael Marcangelo: 33:11

but he asked to be traded. That was what he wanted didn't want to part of rebuilt. Since leaving the Boston Celtics regular season. Doc Rivers is 395 wins 231 regular season losses. He's a great regular season coach. playoff record is 34 and 37. Since even the Celtics and he's never reached Eastern Conference Finals, which the Celtics have three times. Imagine that with the players with the caliber of Blake Griffin, Chris Paul, DeAndre Jordan, Paul George kawhi, Leonard, Embiid, Ben Simmons can't shoot. Just think about that think about the fact that he's never been able to reach the conference finals. But also let's dive into this because we all we talked earlier in the show about how the Clippers overcame adversity from from being done to games to nothing, and won those series in 2020 in the Western Conference semi finals, Doc Rivers and the Los Angeles Clippers were up three one against the Denver Nuggets. Then the Clippers will have 15 point lead to lose game five. Then the Clippers wound 19 point second half lead to lose game six. Then the Clippers totally collapsed in the fourth quarter to lose game seven but wait everybody. There's just a little more in 2015 against the Houston Rockets against Houston Rockets up three games to one. They lost a game six were hard and didn't even play because Kevin McHale benched him. Not to mention that in 2003 there are three three games to win against Detroit. Yes, Doc Rivers is a fantastic regular season coach, he can actually get more out of some players and most than other coaches can. But what he can't do is win in the playoffs unless he has three Hall of Fame players that have never won before and that are itching for that ring. And for that trophy. So that I think that the 76ers years collapse is good, but the Los Angeles Clippers resurgence when they were down 202 validates me even more. I rest of my case on Doc Rivers.

Dave Clarke: 35:14

stuck in my head dude. It's like making me think that like the reason that shitty Atlanta team was able to take us to seven games in 2008 was because doc was like not coaching I like it's like, well world is plastic. It's Yeah, I agree. It doesn't diminish like what he did with us like, you know, it can't he's got a championship. He's a championship winning coach and like, Yeah, he took three veterans that like, all needed a ship. You know what I mean? Like they needed it and he went, and he wanted the city needed to and it was great. It's a great year and I can't wait to do the rewrap.

Michael Marcangelo: 35:47

But to your point, he took a team that had what 66 regular season wins and then needed seven games to beat the Atlanta Hawks.

Dave Clarke: 35:55

That's the funny thing is actually we weren't opening regular season in oh eight like 1616 Yeah, well, like I kept I was walking around. I remember walking around senior in high school being like 82 now. Like, I was just saying that to anyone who listened. I was like 82 now 82 now, and then they would go they would lose a game. And I'd be like 81 and one for the whole season. And they were doubling every season. We also didn't win a championship that year, which is basically the best you can do in the playoffs. But I see your point we did

Michael Marcangelo: 36:20

about like, just to two ratios point Am I just not my last thing on this whole theory of Doc Rivers, chokes and playoffs and like isn't that great of a playoff coach is no longer a hypothesis. It's a conclusion based on what we've seen in two straight years. Fine, throw away the 2015 you know, conference semi finals against Houston. Again, when James Harden was benched in game six, and they still lost. Let's just throw that away. And back to back years, when the field was literally opened up for you to do whatever you want to do. Like it could have been a Western Conference final against LeBron. There's no shame in losing to LeBron James and Anthony Davis. Absolutely none. But you can't go out the way that you did this year, and still want to be called a great coach. Doc Rivers is a great regular season coach that caught fire with three Hall of Fame talents. And since those three talents, he's that he has not had any more. He's never been able to replicate and he cannot advance to the conference finals of the conference that he is in without three Hall of Famers. I'm sorry. I hope like if that upsets you, and no, it's

Dave Clarke: 37:28

at the end of the day like I don't think it's careers. I don't think it's over. I think as of right now, anyone who's gonna argue that point wouldn't have much to stand on it's unfortunate. scathing remarks about toggery was there you know, it reminds me something there was a lot of soccer on today was spent basically my whole day watching soccer and we're not going to talk about it because I know like you hate

Michael Marcangelo: 37:48

it would be a monologue but because

Dave Clarke: 37:50

that right there was like at that rivaled Hamlet's soliloquy in morbid, morbid pression.

Michael Marcangelo: 37:57

I've been waiting for it. Because I wanted to tell you, when I saw him, just dominate the East this year. I was like, Well, I didn't call that but Embiid is playing pretty well. Like Yeah,

Dave Clarke: 38:10

and also he was in shape, which was a big,

Michael Marcangelo: 38:12

it would be hard to stop this team. But then like then then Ben's been shooting dog rivers to sell the coach so

Dave Clarke: 38:21

so there's been a lot of soccer on today. And it reminds me a little bit, the way you have doc like set up. A few years ago, the Netherlands coach, it was going to penalty kicks and the Netherlands coach sub this keeper, which no one ever really done before. It was like holy shit. What are you doing is like, well, this guy's a better goalkeeper. And this guy's a better penalty stopper and it worked. They won the shootout. So I wonder Could you take some money and be like, Alright, Doc, you're going to coach the regular season. Here you are, and on your team as your assistant coach is going to be who's a really good playoff Coach Ty Lue Tyler's going to be your assistant and some big tie. You're taking over as head coach for the playoffs? Can't do it now. I know there'd be a lot of issues with like the teaming fuck. Like, they wouldn't listen either from probably is

Michael Marcangelo: 39:11

what I mean. Steve Kerr did that though. Right. But didn't Luke Walton coach a majority of those regular season games and Steve Kerr for the playoffs? Because his back was injured?

Dave Clarke: 39:18

Yeah, but he wasn't hurt. So maybe the man thinking,

Michael Marcangelo: 39:20

but it happened. I mean, daugava says that as a vocal cord issue and has a bad back. But now I also will say this isn't hedging a bet. I brought this up with Bobby on one of the shows where we talked about the Celtics season this is midway through it, she I think Doc Rivers would have gotten more out of Jayson Tatum. And, and Jaylen Brown. I think he would have coached them up quicker to be the players that they needed to be and would have ingrained something else in them. But I don't know that

Dave Clarke: 39:48

they would have gone further than the Eastern Conference Finals and history would argue that he probably wouldn't be able to do it. It's but it's funny that you say that beause it's actually a perfect segue into our next topic, which is the new Celtics head coach, Ime Udoka is I believe how you pronounce it and I think there was he was banging a lot of drums today. I'm not gonna read out the exact quote because there's like too much of it and I'm just gonna be sitting here reading the fucking internet. You guys can go look it up. But he basically he was like, I am going to coach Jayson Tatum and Jaylen brown hard I'm gonna be hard on them. Marcus Smart also he kept like Mark mentioning Marcus is like, kind of an afterthought, but I was like, I guess. Like, it happens to me too. But that's what they want. He's like, I coach them at us, like for USA Basketball with pop. And I know them. They know me. They wanted me here. I wanted to be here. I know I wasn't a head coach before, but these guys need to develop that. And, you know, his boss is the guy that was developing them for the past few years. And for him to say that out. It's not a direct affront. But it's ballsy. It's headstrong. It's him saying, Hey, I'm here to coach these guys up, I'm going to make them better. And I'm going to make them realize their potential. And that immediately gets you excited, because you're like, oh, they're gonna get even better. Yes. And I think I agree with the Doc River's quote because doctors, coaches, players heart, you know, he rides them hard. And I think that's what he made he dove is going to do and I think that will bring out the best in those players, because obviously, they had lost Brad, what are your thoughts on this hire? And like the stuff that was coming in today?

Michael Marcangelo: 41:12

Yeah, I thought, you know, my favorite quote was when I was when he said, Sorry to mention this probably about 27th and assists last year, we want to have more teen basketball there. He's absolutely and we talked about this, we beat this drum all year, we don't think there was malicious, right. But at some point in time, throughout the course of any given game, the players decided that what Brad told them to do wasn't working. So they want to take it upon themselves and just play ISO ball. It never worked. So I think that I think he's gonna do a great job not allowing that to happen. I think he's the perfect mentality. He's a perfect mentality type of coach to have in here now. I think he's gonna ride everybody hard. I think, you know, the reports out that we were seeing over the last couple of weeks is that Brad would pick his players that he would go after, I think this guy's gonna take absolutely no prisoners. I think he's gonna treat Jayson Tatum just like he's a Tristan Thompson, or just like he's the Payton Pritchard. And he's gonna make everybody better. And if he can do that, you know, this team is a perennial conference final team. Right, what they were missing was, what was that factor of buying in when it counted? If they buy in the final minutes of the fourth quarter now, this team has the potential to be a 55 win team. And if that happens, then yeah, I think then we're really in for it.

Dave Clarke: 42:26

Yeah, I mean, I hope you got me thinking they're running suicides already. Listen. I'm gonna go watch that movie. Yeah, I mean, I just think I think the assisting is a big deal. But let's talk about that for a second. Because then not listening to Brad is a little disconcerting, don't you think? Because you remember that? 2017. Brad Stevens, everyone's buying in. Everyone's doing what they're told. Three passes to three different open guys to get the best. Look. You know, we're the best defensive team in the east. Like all this different stuff. Brad Stevens is brands of basketball. I like I like to read a basketball. It was very upsetting that he clearly lost the locker room. I think I'm not sure exactly what went down. I don't think we'll ever probably know exactly what went down for him to lose the locker room. But I'm a little worried that these guys always seem to have somebody to blame. Kyrie Irving sacrificial lamb like, yeah, okay, maybe not. Maybe he was being an asshole. And maybe he's a weird guy. Fine. Then Brad Stevens, it was no, we're not listening to Brad anymore. Why aren't you listening to Brad anymore? It works when you do what he's telling you to do. It's not working. It's not working. When you're doing what you're doing, which it's not working at all. They were terrible in the regular season. They're almost as bad if not worse than the playoffs?

Michael Marcangelo: 43:37

I think, you know, that. That's a very, it's a very interesting argument. But and I think we've talked about this a lot over the last year since we've had the simpson who had the podcast, but we always talked about how many times can they possibly get to the Eastern Conference Finals and lose before that that's what they think that their ceiling is right. And all the examples that you just gave a plane, Brad Stevens basketball all ended to losing to better teams, these Conference Finals. So it wouldn't surprise me if with the caliber of play that you have within Jayson Tatum and Jaylen Brown, again, not being malicious. It's like, okay, let's let him get us there. But then we're going to take over, and that just couldn't manifests itself over the last year and a half. I also think that if there's even a inclination of the team out listening to that bubble experience must have been terrible. Because you're pulling people from everything that they know, isolating them for, what, three or four months. And we heard all the reports that Marcus was throwing chairs in the locker room. Like it must not have been a great experience. So if there was a thought of Hey, like, Can this guy really get us there? And then you lead every game of the fourth quarter and lose and the Eastern Conference Finals? I think it was done that I think his ticket was written at the end of that Miami series last year.

Dave Clarke: 44:46

Yeah, I mean, it was all season right? From that point forward. Every game you watched it was Brad saying stuff and nobody's looking at him. And like, yeah, we were getting married in two I remember like me and Bobby, specifically, we're going to absolutely off on how Brad is just like Okay, guys, let's just make sure we get back on every possession. But maybe Brett, you know, Brad Stevens is an idiot he can feel that, you know, that's he's trying to stay consistent. He's trying to give these instructions and to play his brand of basketball but he knows that he lost them. So what he even wanted to come back and coach again this year, you know, like it's just, it's gonna be uncomfortable for everybody.

Michael Marcangelo: 45:17

Yeah, I mean, I don't know. But I also think like he's smart enough to know that if he thinks he lost the team, the worst thing you can do is Is dog them out to the media. You can't call players out to the reporters if you've already think that you've lost them you do that when you know that they bought in. That's why coaches like Popovich Bill Belichick across all different sports can do it, because they know that they have their buy in and that note and that there are no prisoners. But if Jaylen is not listening to you can't go tell a reporter that, you know, Jaylen has got to step it up, because that's only going to expand, you know, the void between you two. I also think, you know, not to toot my horn or our horn, I still think Brad was fired. But if I told you a couple weeks ago, they kept him because they owe him so much money. So you they'd rather pay him? Because he is a smart basketball mind. And you know, I think that this hire is a really good hire. So that Academy,

Dave Clarke: 46:09

if you really do think that I want to ask you that question, then who hired Ime? Is it Brad? Was it rattling?

Michael Marcangelo: 46:16

Brad? Yeah, because I don't think Brad wants it's not built in him to fail.

Dave Clarke: 46:20

But also politically, looking forward. Jaylen Brown on Twitter basically asked for this for this hire right for this exact kind of candidate. Apparently, they all told Brad, this is the guy we want. You know, that's no, well, that's not a very well kept secret. You know, we played with him at USA Basketball and we want this guy, if you're asking to go Okay, I'm gonna give you exactly what you want. Now, what's your fucking excuse? Gonna Be sure now Who are you going to fucking blame for you know, crashing out in early or even earlier than the Eastern Conference Finals when you're doing it my way because your way hasn't gone and you passed where I've gone. So there is there might be a little bit of that. They're like, that's Brad kind of covering his ass too. Because it's like, well, you know, and great. If you win, I look great. It's a win win for him. Because if they win, he's like, Look, I've got a big I'm a winning GM now. Great, you know, like, I can do that job.

Michael Marcangelo: 47:07

I think it's also a pretty incredible feat to have a guy that can bring a crop of talent like he did to, you know, threes and Conference Finals. And then is, let's say in his first few years of the GM Win, win win an NBA Finals. I think that on the resume makes them almost untouchable in the NBA. Right. He can really ask for whatever he wants. But I think, yeah, I don't think Brad hasn't been to sabotage anything. I don't think he hasn't ended to fail. I don't think I don't think he quit. I do think he was fired. But I do think he will make the best out of the situation that he's given.

Dave Clarke: 47:36

Cool. I hope so. for another season like that. Okay, let's switch gears for a second.

Michael Marcangelo: 47:43

can i just add one more thing. It's a question to you the host deaconesses. Oh, yeah. So let's say that things don't go the way that we want them to this year. Is this not the year that we find out if we can win a championship with both Jaylen and Jayson, or if one of them is holding the other back? Because I think now with Brad gone as the coach, now's the time, right, we need to figure out if this is if this duo can be the reason that we win or if one of them is better without the other. What do you think?

Dave Clarke: 48:12

I mean, I have been on record saying that I don't think they're gonna play all their basketball together. And I think that at some point, at this point, more likely, Jaylen Brown is gonna want his own team because he's definitely Jayson Tatum's team. I think that's been established, I think. Ray made a fierce and eloquent points in the last season. And he's banging this drum a lot where he said, like, you don't have to pick the broth on the team, it's fine. They can both be good. But the idea of one holding another back scares me because I think if Jaylen Brown did go somewhere, I could really see him just going insane. And like being the best player on a different team, they do a lot of the same stuff. Not all the same stuff. But they do a lot of the same stuff. And, yeah, we have great wings, it's very well concentrated in that area. And we're really hard to beat in that position. But we've had a tough time, like, everywhere else. So you could be forgiven. If you say, Well, if we wanted to spread the talent out if we got a really good trade, could we trade Jaylen Brown for X, Y, or Z? What do we value him at? If after this year, we see another kind of it's not working, I don't think their draft stock or their trade stock will get that messed up if that happened, because I think that everyone still thinks they're really talented. And I think that if that opinion did start to form whether it were true or not, you would have to make a move. Because if people start to say it, it kind of becomes true in a weird way. And how long do you hold on you know, I know they're still very young I know it's only been a few years but they have played together for a long time. So do you start to ask the question I think so. Yeah, I think you kind of have to start to ask especially now where there's no unless like I said earlier there's no one left to blame like left it's they have the coach they want yeah you know I hope you know hopefully we still make a couple more moves to put the red people around them I've been reconsidering my thoughts on the Marcus Smart the point guard role but like it also gives me like fucking like absolute but the heebie jeebies at the same time but I rea made some good physical points in the last show about you know what he's like when he's playing the point so we'll see I guess, but I hope that's not the case. I really both of them, you know, as much as I've been I was down on Jayson Tatum before this season. He absolutely shut me up like he's obviously phenomenal. He's gonna win a championship. He's at some point. I really hope he doesn't in Boston. He's unbelievable. Never say a bad word about him ever again. And he's so hard to guard you know, you need a guy like that in the NBA nowadays, like and if I love Kevin Durant as much as I always say I do as a neutral I gotta love Jason Tatum because he's like, very similar. Yep. as similar as you can be to Kevin Duran, who's very singular. Alright, let's switch gears because he did say in anticipation in anticipation of not being snuck up on like we were coming into these seasons, we're going to try to hit chat about upcoming sports seasons, big sports seasons in our show early. So let's talk about football. Other than, you know, other than this, some of the stellar offseason news that players are coming out of the closet and like nobody's committed suicide that used to play and asked to donate their brain to science so far this year.

Michael Marcangelo: 51:01

There is a Cole Beasley thing though

Dave Clarke: 51:03

wow yeah, I guess it's there's some decent PR though for the NFL there's like yeah there's always some pickup truck boat like shit going on with them but like you know, here we are. What do you owe to the Patriots looking like like how are we feeling? Have you given them much bandwidth Have you are you thinking about the quarterback position still like where are you at with your team?

Michael Marcangelo: 51:20

Yeah, listen in the in this order. It's patriots, Bruins Celtics and Red Sox. And given that the Red Sox really they're doing really well, but it's still pretty early. I think I get a lot of my focus on the Patriots. I think there's a real I think that there's a strong chance of the patient's finish 11 and six or 10 and seven. Here's my sneaky take. I think that both the Tampa Bay Buccaneers and the New England Patriots are three you know going into their week four matchup. If you look at the schedule, the Patriots played the Miami Dolphins, the New York Jets and the New Orleans Saints who I don't know is going to be their quarterback and if it's Jameis Winston, I love that you

Dave Clarke: 51:54

could just you just smash this off on the top of your head that I cannot do that there's

Michael Marcangelo: 52:00

lots here to him I think Bucs will be the Bucks will be three no because they're actually a great team. The Patriots have a very busy schedule. And for all those people that say the Cam Newton is talking to the starter again, just remember I said it on the show check the show notes. I don't remember the episode. If you remove Julian Edelman from the 2019 season, only 900 passing yards separate. Cam Newton and Tom Brady cam wasn't that bad last year? in context, there was no offseason. There was no preseason, and his number one receiver was Jacobie fucking Myers. So just remember that now you have Hunter Henry Jonnu Smith, Nelson Agholor, you have a Kendrick Bourne from San Francisco. Jonnu smith being a little bit injured and dropping passes in otas is a little bit disconcerting to me. But I think with that crop of talent, it fits the mold for cam to do his best to recreate his success from Carolina in 2015. Now I'm not telling you it's going to be 15 and one or 16 and one because it's 17 game season. But I am telling you that their schedule is Pittsburgh Steelers enough of last year that they can win 11 games and make the playoff run.

Dave Clarke: 53:10

Interesting. So just straight to it. You're going it's Cam Newton season it's tough to lose it's cam Newton's the quarterback for the for the new patriots and you're saying that he's gonna have what sounds like on paper the most miraculous turnaround?

Michael Marcangelo: 53:25

No, no, no, no, no. what I'm telling you is is that if you look at statistically if you again, for all those out there that are listening to this a big them that I'm absolutely batshit crazy one year right but to go back and go back and watch if you remove Julian Edelman's production from 2019. Tom Brady only passed for 900 more yards than Cam Newton and accounted for you.

Dave Clarke: 53:47

You're taking away his biggest receiver plus 900 yards. That's a lot.

Michael Marcangelo: 53:52

But if you remember Julian Edelman was on the team in 2020. But cam couldn't dardo him. So they had the exact same receiving corps minus their number one receiver only Tom had him. Cam didn't. And so when you look at and that focused area, Cam wasn't that that knows his fumbles. Sure. His passing touchdowns, they weren't great, but he made up for those in on the ground. But what I'm telling you is the offensive they put on the field this year, and if Gilmore comes back, and it all signs point to the fact that he is going to come back. There's no reason for me to believe that the New England Patriots cannot win 11 games now again, it's a 17 game season. So 11 and six. Let's see how that flushes out. But I think you could really see a world where cam throws for 3500 yards. 19 touchdowns, 10 picks, but runs for 10 touchdowns. And that is a remarkable improvement upon what he did last year.

Dave Clarke: 54:47

Do you think that there's anything that could happen in training camp, or in the preseason? Regarding minors, injuries, obviously anything that can happen performance wise for Mac Jones over the course of that that time that sees him starting game one?

Michael Marcangelo: 55:02

Honestly this could be a take that some of you have heard before that I've written it on our in our group chat, but I don't think Bill puts Mac Jones out there against Tom. I just can't see that happening. I can see him letting the defending Super Bowl champion Buccaneers led by the guy that they let go come in and steamroll the next guy. So I think it makes them I think it makes the most sense for this to be Cam shot to lose.

Dave Clarke: 55:29

How many games does Cam Newton need to lose the start of the season for you to call in for Mac Jones to start,

Michael Marcangelo: 55:37

I think they started something like two and five, you got to go. But I just like, if you look at last year, they beat most of the teams that they should have beat in the regular season, but they just couldn't be teams that they weren't expected to. And their season was one of the top of their schedule is one of the toughest in comparison to the rest of the league this year. It's one of the it's one of the easiest. So if everything is the same, I think that you just get 11 wins just based on who you're playing. So I don't know that. I don't know if that does happen. But if you see if we're in a situation a week seven and we're, you know, two and five or three and four and cam has three touchdowns and 12 interceptions and can't hit anything, then yeah, you bring in Mac Jones, but he's not coming in before we for it's not happening unless he can bring in Mac Jones, because they're down 30 to nothing, and Mac Jones can score a couple touchdowns on Tampa Bay. That's about it.

Dave Clarke: 56:30

That's an ideal situation, I would say. Yeah. So

Michael Marcangelo: 56:32

the Jimmy G or Kansas City again. Yeah.

Dave Clarke: 56:35

I wonder though, it reminds me of something, though, because I have a question as if you really do believe in Cam Newton this much and think he can lead your offense. Another soccer reference, Stewart downing terrible player played for Liverpool. First game, take some crazy shotgun inside the box and hits the underside of the bar and it's like an inch from gonella going in. And I maintain for the rest of his career as he just continued to be a piddly little shitbag that if that goal went in, he would have been a completely different player for Liverpool. If the Patriots edge it out against the Seahawks and they don't make that really dumb. Second, those really dumb second and third down calls against the Seahawks last season. Do you think their entire season looks different? Because you're kind of saying it can hang on a knife's edge here and it seems like that knife nice edge might be the Tampa Bay game.

Michael Marcangelo: 57:22

Well, I think that they were Yeah, so I think that there were three games last year that that had they gone a different way would have changed the entire conversation right? I think Seattle if you don't run the play on the goal line that everyone knew that you were going to run? that changes things I think of cam plays against Kansas City that game is different because if you remember we were only down by six points in the fourth quarter of that game with with Jarett Stidham. And fucking Brian Hoyer who never mind and then there's the buffalo game where you fumble on the last possession So those three if you just flip those now you're 10 six instead of seven and nine but by the way, like you still don't make the playoffs because every team in the AFC was

Dave Clarke: 58:02

different though like at least you fucking were 10 and six like all right, we didn't make the playoffs but we were 10 six with like a new quarterback and like this uh, yeah, I know I agree. I mean those are big wins too because like look how on everybody on the Buffalo Bills tip everybody was after that yeah and it myself included in like all the bills are so good and it's like well, you know that would have been a big scout you know so like that Yeah, I agree. I think a lot of that was it was inches like I think you could have been in no one inside Craig Do

Craig D'Alessandro: 58:27

you have something it since we're talking about the the how many games is Cam Newton need to lose to lose a starter job to Mack Jones let's just play the game that we're supposed to play in this time so we want to get the dolphins

Michael Marcangelo: 58:39

win

Craig D'Alessandro: 58:40

that's a win. So week two get the Jets

Michael Marcangelo: 58:42

win

Craig D'Alessandro: 58:43

week three against the saints

Michael Marcangelo: 58:45

win

Craig D'Alessandro: 58:45

we force week four bucks the Bucks

Michael Marcangelo: 58:49

that's gonna be an absolute blowout.

Dave Clarke: 58:51

But you could you could start three and oh, you could start

Michael Marcangelo: 58:54

I think you're gonna be three and oh, going into week four.

Dave Clarke: 58:57

And that's that would be put such a different shine on the Patriots season even if you buy the books that won't even matter

Michael Marcangelo: 59:04

shouldn't because you played two really crappy teams and one team that may not have a quarterback

Dave Clarke: 59:08

no one knows that the saints are bad yet. I mean we do. But no one else knows that the sensor bags.

Michael Marcangelo: 59:14

I just think like you've used we've seen Jamies Winston how he was able to throw it on Mike Evans.

Dave Clarke: 59:21

You're not good. He's not good. And like we know that like you know you and I hip hop in and Craig hip hop in and smart people that like watch and talk about football at time know that but everyone is gonna be kind of going like he's very good though. Like so. Yeah, exactly. The name recognition like Drew Brees is you know, I mean, whatever. He's not there anymore. But people forget, you know,

Michael Marcangelo: 59:43

so Craig we're 4 games in and we're three and one the Patriots. Good.

Craig D'Alessandro: 59:48

So we're doing week four.

Michael Marcangelo: 59:49

Yep.

Craig D'Alessandro: 59:50

Week Five. Houston Texans

Michael Marcangelo: 59:52

win.

Craig D'Alessandro: 59:53

Week Six Dallas Cowboys

Michael Marcangelo: 59:55

loss.

Craig D'Alessandro: 59:55

Oh, that's that. That's Yeah, that's at home. So week seven jets. Again, were dumped the Jets a week seven.

Michael Marcangelo: 1:00:00

When say you're five and two.

Craig D'Alessandro: 1:00:02

All right. Week 8, Chargers.

Michael Marcangelo: 1:00:04

When

Craig D'Alessandro: 1:00:06

your at, the charters.

Michael Marcangelo: 1:00:08

That's a pick em. We'll just call it a loss for content purposes.

Craig D'Alessandro: 1:00:13

Week nine Panthers.

Michael Marcangelo: 1:00:15

win

Craig D'Alessandro: 1:00:16

week 10 Cleveland Browns

Michael Marcangelo: 1:00:18

loss

Craig D'Alessandro: 1:00:21

Week. 11. You're out. You're at Atlanta.

Michael Marcangelo: 1:00:24

Win 1,000% Yeah, yeah, yeah. 74 we

Craig D'Alessandro: 1:00:29

week 12 Tennessee Titans at home

Michael Marcangelo: 1:00:31

loss 75 Yeah, no, I

Dave Clarke: 1:00:35

think you'd be done. I think they're overrated.

Michael Marcangelo: 1:00:37

Yeah, that's gonna be my thing. Derrick Henry and Julio Jones you think we think pages and stop them?

Dave Clarke: 1:00:42

I don't know

Craig D'Alessandro: 1:00:42

AJ Brown.

Dave Clarke: 1:00:43

Not for nothing, not for nothing. But like, I know we were all yelling at each other aggressively by the NFL football season, but like, I couldn't rub it in too hard. But I was like, Derrick, Henry's not gonna win you any playoff games and I was banging I fucking drum and you were like, Derrick, he was a beast. And he didn't and I was like, in your face. So

Michael Marcangelo: 1:00:59

you remember I said that your best player can ever be a running back. He's gonna want to super well. I agree with you. And I said that

Dave Clarke: 1:01:04

first but like I did.

Michael Marcangelo: 1:01:07

We're seven and five right now. Craig seven five.

Craig D'Alessandro: 1:01:10

Week 13 at Buffalo

Michael Marcangelo: 1:01:12

loss. Seven and six.

Craig D'Alessandro: 1:01:14

Yeah, week 14 that weird weird late by week. 15 Colts,

Michael Marcangelo: 1:01:19

win

Craig D'Alessandro: 1:01:20

week 16 call our bills.

Michael Marcangelo: 1:01:23

win

Craig D'Alessandro: 1:01:24

we 17 jaguars. We got the bills when in the week 16. home game.

Michael Marcangelo: 1:01:30

I have a splitting against the bills. Then they win the first one. We win the second one.

Craig D'Alessandro: 1:01:34

Okay, that's fair. 18. So yeah, jaguars winning. Yeah, we have this. Yeah, that's been the Jaguars. Yep. And by us, I mean the Patriots. I'm not playing unfortunately. And then week 18. Dolphin at dolphins.

Michael Marcangelo: 1:01:47

Yeah. win?

Craig D'Alessandro: 1:01:48

So what's that? 11 and six,

Dave Clarke: 1:01:52

and you still don't make the playoffs? That's a good call. I like it. I liked it. And I thought that game was fun. All right. Cool. You're optimistic. You're optimistic about the Patriots season. Let

Michael Marcangelo: 1:02:05

me flip this around on you. Gk Sure. Justin fields coming in for the Chicago Bears. What is how does this compare to previous years and in terms of your anticipation for the game of football, because now you actually have the guy, the guy you should have drafted then not Mitch trubisky not the one that you took in front of Patrick mahomes with the one that your GM won and moved up ahead of other teams, the Patriots that should have drafted Justin fields and they got him so like, what is it like now knowing that you know, Nick Foles might start but this is really fields team

Craig D'Alessandro: 1:02:40

there. There's also a little nugget in there to be as Tom Brady was on the Bron James show the other day, and he was being like you're gonna start this motherfucker before we saw that he

Michael Marcangelo: 1:02:47

was talking about the Raiders. I think he's talking about the bears. He wasn't even some of the Raiders. They confirmed it today.

Craig D'Alessandro: 1:02:53

Oh, they did?

Michael Marcangelo: 1:02:54

Yeah.

Craig D'Alessandro: 1:02:54

Nevermind.

Dave Clarke: 1:02:55

I didn't even hear about this. So Eric is bad. I missed it. But oh, here's been my like roller coaster of emotions since draft day. Thrilled, like exalted excited freaking out so happy we got Justin fields. Justin field has been the avatar in our discord chat in my on my thing since then, because I just think he's like an absolute Adonis. And he's going to just do so good. And now Yeah, and now and also, yes, the best, like, by far the best prospect the bears have ever had. And they did the same thing to do with trubisky. But it was like smart this time and dumb last time and it's not for me check. Okay, and now I'm at the point where I'm like, I can't fucking believe that we're going to just drop two games on purpose. Just because we say we say Andy Dalton, he would be the starter. It doesn't. Justin Fields as the kind of quarterback it when you say Mack Jones you can't get let him get steamrolled by like whatever, just to feel the kind of draft backwards. like you'd be, you're getting fed lines right away my man. You're getting fed the lines right away and you need to go out there and start to win and we'll be forgiving for a whole season. You get to make mistakes for a whole season, maybe even two in Chicago because of the kind of quarterbacks we've seen. If you've any idea, the level of just thankfulness, the bears fans are going to have for Justin fields just by showing up like they watched Rex Grossman and Jim Miller and fucking Jen fucking Jay Cutler. And it's just my lord Kyle Orton and Brian Hoyer and all these different absolute bags of shit that played quarterback for the Philadelphia phone Chicago Bears. Justin fields just has to tie shoes and they will be kissing the ground and he walks on. So you throw him in there Why is am I hearing all this shit about Andy Dalton start in week one. Get out of here. Any dog should be getting Justin fields his breakfast form in the morning This is crazy. You can't have any dog is a proven loser. Nick foles is a proven winner but it didn't work. Why is he still I don't understand so it's and we gave him a weird contract too but just start just in fields you know he's starting by week three you know he is dude any dog is gonna go like to one touchdown three interceptions for like 98 yards every day for like over three games in a row. We're gonna have to like adventure but just the fields in just feels so exciting. Like what Matt naggy is trying to be pragmatic sometimes he does this he like tries to be pragmatic for pragmatism sake. And he can get himself into like a loop and that's why he like had to give up play calling last year he's like a really good play caller like he was like he was a play caller for any read. He's really good. Yeah, but he's Just like he tricks himself, like he just goes like into, like, you know, let's say let's see The Princess Bride when vicini and the and the man in black are like, I which one is the iron cane powder? And he's like I clearly can't trust the wine in front of you I like watch Matt naggy do that and in His head was a little visor on he's like but I clearly can't trust the wine in front of me. Like I'm like matches for can make a choice. And that's why he's doing the same damn thing. Just dude. Do the simplest thing. give the people what they want started. Fields do the right thing start Justin fields start him if he knows the playbook unless something terrible has happened. And he's turned out to just be like an insane person. Or like not what he was like advertising in camp. If he knows the playbook, and he didn't put the his right shoe on his left foot and his left shoe on his right foot that morning needs to start he needs to start

Michael Marcangelo: 1:06:12

Justin fields. Alan Robinson, Jimmy Graham, by like a great Jimmy Graham, but whatever he is right now,

Dave Clarke: 1:06:19

but you know, it was proven last season, you can literally just when you're in the red zone, he can just still just go stand. That's right, he can still just go stand and you can just throw it up a little higher than everybody else and he'll go get it and that's just like a weapon. You know, that's just like a proven weapon. I think I think we've locked down our running back at this point. You know, I think it's a good offense. I just start just in fields, let them learn and let them get those mistakes out of the way. And the problem is I think we would do you know, you talk about your strength schedule. Being favorable. Ours sucks, man. I think it would be so much more damage if we didn't have to play the fucking buccaneers. We have to play the Steelers who I still think are good. Which play the Ravens we have to play obviously the Packers twice. I know there's a bunch of drama going on over there. But I don't concern myself with it. With the Titans. I'm hoping they're overrated. We have to play the bill. Do we play those reads that pre season mid season?

Michael Marcangelo: 1:07:04

I would just say like,

Dave Clarke: 1:07:05

oh good 40 Niners are good. It's it's gonna be tough.

Michael Marcangelo: 1:07:08

Well, well, is that the tre lance? 40 Niners or is it? Or is it the Jimmy Garoppolo? I mean, that could be interesting. things really good quarterback.

Dave Clarke: 1:07:15

I think I mean, I

Michael Marcangelo: 1:07:17

I think trade Lance is really good too. I think that that team is I don't think there's gonna be much of a fall off between the two. But I will say like, my apologies to your fiance, Leah. The Steelers are not. Dude, they're still so good on paper. They don't have one returning offensive lineman for last year. Not one. That's bad. They drafted well, though, didn't they? I thought they drafted to the running back.

Dave Clarke: 1:07:40

Is he good though, isn't he? That wasn't like the best running back in the draft and like the Steelers get guys like that where it's like, oh, shit, this

Michael Marcangelo: 1:07:45

guy's gonna run for 1000 years. They get really good skill players, but like now you're relying on a 39 year old Ben Roethlisberger

Dave Clarke: 1:07:52

sucks like it sucks because he keeps limping back onto the field like a big Frankenstein and you just can't and he's like also the kind of guy won't let the plan for the future. He's like nobody better be like here

Michael Marcangelo: 1:08:03

he's pretty much known for not giving the whoever's on the other side of him but much choice in the matter so I would say that Yeah, you know, I

Dave Clarke: 1:08:09

mean, you're talking about Okay, his rape allegations. Not funny, but that was a little funny. Okay, dude again with me dude Give me the Craig read me all the things I'll give you elzar W's

Craig D'Alessandro: 1:08:20

All right, do I have the preseason theory just care about the regular Oh no. all right fine. week one you got the Rams l

Dave Clarke: 1:08:26

Lost because any

Craig D'Alessandro: 1:08:30

well while the Mets wants to be funny to week two against the Bengals

Dave Clarke: 1:08:33

last because any Don's gonna start and that's when I go that's when I pop one of my eyes out from rage on the show live and just furious. It just feels hasn't started yet. Good. Week Three Cleveland. loss but Justin fields comes in a fourth quarter we're down 20 123 Well, week four against the lions. When Justin fields beats the lions for his first divisional win and first win as a bears quarterback. They are one and three. Week Five against the Raiders Jon Gruden coaches the Raiders, we win that game Justin fields two and three week six Packers. The drama has over spilled in the Packers front office and locker room. Aaron Rodgers is still holding out and so are they it's absolutely sixes and sevens over there. And the bears squeak out a win 2421 Justin fields Man of the Match 500 3 and three week seven Tampa Bay Buccaneers. Brady in the Bucs punish the Chicago Bears. And Justin fields gets his first taste of like real hardcore defeat and adversity. But he does some cool shit when he loses he like stares out at the field or something like what he's you know, ready to go.

Craig D'Alessandro: 1:09:44

week seven Halloween, San Francisco 40 Niners

Dave Clarke: 1:09:48

I think we beat them because I think they're they're having quarterback issues more than we are at that point. Noone's even talking about Andy Dalton on our team anymore.

Michael Marcangelo: 1:09:55

4-4

Craig D'Alessandro: 1:09:56

week nine tough night in the sizzle household at the Steelers

Dave Clarke: 1:10:00

we're gonna smash the Steelers dude they didn't have one offensive lineman come back last year I learned to me dude, I fucking front seven our linebacking core is still sick. Our defensive ends are still sick. The tackles are still sick. We downgraded a little bit the safety position but like are we really worried about getting thrown over our heads against like by Ben Roethlisberger at this point? No. Does my marriage go through After the eighth of November, I don't know I don't know Leah can get real into this. And so can I, and it's a night game. So I may have had a couple of drinks or any at this point, so who knows? Who knows what's gonna happen? I might have to get a contract drawn up, but yeah, the bears went where

Unknown: 1:10:40

are they at my five and four, five and four. So week 10 against the Ravens. We beat the Ravens week 10 against the lions again, we beat the lions again. 7-4.

Dave Clarke: 1:10:53

So week 12 against the Cardinals will be done. They suck. Packers again. Kyler Murray just gets devoured by our buyer for hash rush. We beat the Packers we like beat the Packers at night historically, even when they're better than us. Vikings. Keep the streak alive beat the Vikings were 10-4 now, SeaHawks we're gonna lose the

Unknown: 1:11:14

Seahawks probably either. Yeah. That's the home game. We got to 12 so what next is week 16 or 17? Or B is the bye week I guess. Or 18 weeks now. He beat the giants. Yeah. Then wrapping it all up on the road against the Vikings would beat the Vikings.

Michael Marcangelo: 1:11:31

12-5

Dave Clarke: 1:11:34

Yep, I'll take it. I'll take it.

Unknown: 1:11:36

Ah, 17 games, but two of those losses are because they started Andy Dalton. Three of them are? Yes.

Dave Clarke: 1:11:42

frustrating. How frustrating is that? That's why I want you know, I could even go in.

Michael Marcangelo: 1:11:48

For those of you at home DK sizzle has the bears going 12 and two under the tutelage of Justin fields.

Dave Clarke: 1:11:54

The leadership qualities that the young man possess. What do you do? You love them? Yeah. And I think he's gonna be really talented. I think he's gonna throw some pics and stuff. Don't get me wrong, but I'm gonna we're gonna ride with him again because we've seen so many shitty fucking quarterbacks play for this team. All right, well, you know what I think we're gonna talk a little bit about McGregor Emporia. But I don't think we really have time. And honestly, after just thinking about the stress of the Chicago Bears season, I can't even think about what it's going to be like for Conor McGregor on the 10th of July. So we'll save that for next time. Thank you everyone for coming out and listening thanks Craig for producing thank you to Mike Mark Angelo for doing this to two sometimes three when Craig want to do that, I suppose schedules of man pod. Thanks for listening, missing the point and we'll catch you next time.