The Patriots are back! (Taylor's Version)

Craig D'Alessandro: 0:24

On this episode of MTP, we recap week 10 And Liana fell including Odell Beckham Jr. signing with the LA Rams teams forgetting how many overtimes there are. And sorry NFL, but it looks like the Patriots are back. This is missing the point, Episode 96. But it's all relative

Joe Malkin: 0:58

Welcome to missing the point I'm Joel Malkin and keys Mike Mark Angelo has always Craig is on with us as well. I think Greg has only ever missed two episodes in this entire show. Long and and even when he does, he still does all the behind the scenes work, and manages our social media and manages our story. You know what, Craig? You don't get paid enough? You deserve a day off? Get out of here. Thanks, buddy. All right, then actually, you know,

Michael Marcangelo: 1:21

he gets paid too much.

Joe Malkin: 1:23

Some some would say he gets paid too much. We don't know who pays him, but he gets paid too much. So we're here to talk to you about week 10 of the NFL season, and maybe some non NFL topics if we can get there within the allotted time that we a lot for ourselves, and that the podcast community tells us we should a lot because after a certain point, we should just stop talking. So like, let's get into the Patriots game. Because, you know, we are based in New England. And when you and I were talking earlier today, before we recorded knew you had brought up some you send some things that kind of brought back some talking points for me from other interviews and other episodes and other points that you had made. And I know you expected us to go first to Mac, but I want to go on the other side of the ball. Yeah. And go to Matthew Judon. The reason why I want to go to Matthew Judon on is because of your comments with Karen Guregian about Matthew Judon being compared to Adalius Thomas. And so far, he has panned out much better, however, Adalius Thomas also had a good first year with the Patriots. But a big difference that I think we've seen with Judon is that Judon has stepped in and become a leader in that locker room within just a few weeks of the regular season and probably before that, too. So I mean, we're looking at a right now they're a top five overall, but what are your what do you think about Matthew Judon now that we've seen him for 10 weeks?

Michael Marcangelo: 2:57

Yeah, I mean, I'm so happy that the ghost of Adalius Thomas is not coming back to haunt me. I thought it was going to. And I think Judon early on, like we started out tuned for, you know, we could have been that record can be argued we could have been more wins, whatever. Sure. reason that we had those wins was strictly because of him on the defensive side of the ball. Right? I think he's been such a disrupting force. And he said he's been a field general. It I think whatever we whatever we are paying him. It's a bargain. Every play that he's on there for, you know, you notice him, you can't help but notice him. And I think it's been, you know, such a long time. Actually, it feels like a long time, but it probably really hasn't. Since we had such such an assertive pass rusher. On the Patriots. I also think, you know, this makes me question the entire Adalius Thomas take. I think you know what Karen had said on the interview and, you know, again, show notes, is he often just went off book right? Like he did not run the scripted plays, that the 2007 Bill Belichick defense had drawn out for him. And when you had that many Hall of Famers audit, I get it. Why at the scripted out, but I think Bill on this defense, and this year, and in this time, has just said, Listen, we need you to be so your job is to kill the quarterback do it. That's it. And I think he said an amazing job. I love that he's here. I hope that he is productive. Yeah, the rest of the season is as he has been so far. But, you know, say what you want about Bill Belichick in drafting and we'll talk a little bit about that, but I have some things I want to air out. But in terms of free agents, he knows how to get great defensive health help from the free agent market on the trade market.

Joe Malkin: 4:55

In it, it's interesting you mentioned that because I think for a long time Bill Belichick his defensive coordinator, which as defensive coordinator, he was a part of two Super Bowl victories with the New York Giants in the 80s. And now we've seen him basically acting as that but you're right rightly, they've they always brought in guys to do a job. And really not since Rodney Harrison, hence he kind of had a guy and said, we just need you to be you like you just said But I also think what they did with Harrison and what they're now doing with Judon is they're they're, he's building that defense around them. And any deficiencies and holes that they would leave open from the position that they're coming from, have been filled have been backfield in other areas, I think. And I want to get to the free agent signings in the draft too. So we'll get there next, but somebody who has and speaking of the draft, somebody who's really stood out to me on that defense as well, is Christian Barmore. Yep, who has just, he's just, he's phenomenal. I mean, when we're talking about, and I always want to bring it back down to earth, because we're talking about free agent signings, and a team that is only 10 weeks into this new identity that they have. Now granted, it's still the old identity, right? It's still the old guard to Bill Belichick style team. But they're, they have this new identity. And it shows and will really showed to me and something that I noticed on Sunday that I haven't noticed much this year. And I watched this patriots team come out of the tunnel on Sunday. And there was something different about them. And I think what it was is that they've finally started to click everything's working. They know that they've gone out and, and drafted Well, which again, we'll get to, they know they've gone on brought in a lot of free agents who are panning out, which we'll get to. And I think everything has started to mesh, and they've loosened up a little bit. And what I mean by that is the first five home games of the season, when Mac Jones would run out of the tunnel at Gillette Stadium, he'd get to the 50 yard line. He'd stop, he'd get his helmet from whoever, whatever equipment, Guy was there, put it on and start throwing a football. This week, they introduced the starting defense and all 46 active players got into a huddle it started jumping around and looked like they were having a good time. Something you see at a high school or college level. And and they look like they looked at a lot of the other NFL teams that we watch every Sunday and they were doing something different and it was just a lot of fun to watch and then they went out and did what they did no great. Cleveland marched down the field on the first drive and then Myles Garrett came in and sacked Mac Jones on the first offensive drive and I can only look at it and see how the game handout and say it's drawn up that way.

Michael Marcangelo: 7:59

Yeah, yeah, you literally just hit the words out of my mouth, dude, I was gonna say like, you know, double check never loves to give up points. But first, that first sack on match on Mac Jones. That was a sacrificial sack. What I mean by that is he wanted to see what he needed to do. And what Cleveland was going to be doing all game because I think you know, we all give him a million dollar check a ton of crap all the time. But he makes really awesome adjustments mid game, right? Always on the fly. On the fly. First score, it doesn't matter. So he was like, Oh, they're just gonna send Myles Garrett out there. Cool. Well, we're gonna do is we're gonna run screens at mile at Myles Garrett and then and then one, because we know how to protect against Jadeveon Clowney. We did it when he was in Houston, with JJ Watt on the other side, with Wilfork in the middle. This isn't that. So we understand how to do that. And I think, you know, to your point about this feeling, we got a, you know, a different patriots team, or they feel differently having weeks past. I think it's two things. The first thing is if you look at the you know, two and four record, Mac Jones had to play out of his mind to get them to win. Right. And even in the games that they lost early in the season, he played well, and it still wasn't enough for them to win. I think that was probably hanging over his head, like, what else do I need to do? The defense probably felt that a little bit. But I think the most important, most important piece, I said it a couple weeks ago, you know and we talked about it, you know now after this 45 to seven when Belichick not Steven, Bill is coaching the defense. This is a Bill Belichick defense, it's a bed, not break, opportune defense that we were not seeing. And you know, Jerod Mayo might be a great head coach someday I think he probably will be Stephen Belichick is just a sperm coach. That's the only reason he's there is because his dad, he's the head coach. That's it. But you can see the difference. Now, you know, Mac is going out of his mind for the entire game, right? They're having great drives, Belichick's not talking to him. He's the entire game. He's focusing on the defense. And that tells me that he still has what it takes to gameplan and to coach up his defense based on what he has. And you know, I'm not sitting here saying that they're gonna win the Super Bowl or anything. But if he's doing that, and they are responding. And offensively they're not making mistakes. They're not shooting themselves in the foot. They're going to be a tough team to beat

Joe Malkin: 10:34

it going back to the Myles Garrett sack, the after that sack, they neutralize them the rest of the game. That was the only time he heard his name. And I wanted to make sure that before I said that, but it's I'm looking at the numbers right now. He had one tackle a sack. That was that. That was it. And, you know, I You're absolutely right about the defense. It is a Bill Belichick coach defense, and you can see it in the style of play. You've seen JC Jackson elevate his play. Jalen Mills is playing his role Christian, it has been outstanding. Matthew Judon, even JaJuan Bentley has been incredible. Yeah, I mean, eight, nine fly around that field. Like there's like they're, I mean, bats out of hell. They're just fun to watch. The secondary has been good. Kyle Duggar has been phenomenal. Devin Mccourty has been great for what he's for his age. And what he's been asked to do. He's been great. He's, I think he's been average overall. But to quarterback that defense the way he does, or at least secondary, he's been very good. And then on the offensive side, I think a big thing is that they were just trying to get the kid comfortable and see what they had. And, you know, some sometimes it's good not to take the Corvette out and go pedal to the metal right away. You have to, you know, you got to grease the skids a little bit, and you got to give it time. Herman Boone, once said, it's like Novocaine, eventually it works. And that's kind of paraphrasing the paraphrasing of the quote, but it's, they've been fun to watch. And when you have Mac Jones, come out and play the way he did on Sunday. And finally looks like he's having fun. They let him loose a little bit. And he's saying all the right things. He's doing all the right things. And the team was finally clicking. So with that said, let's talk about the draft because I think we both have a little bit to say about this draft. But of course, Mac Jones drafted in the first round Christian Barmore drafted in the second round Rhamondre Stevenson, drafted in the fourth round. I mean, Mike, what are your thoughts on this year's draft? You know,

Michael Marcangelo: 12:45

overall, I think this is one of Belichick's best drafts, I think, you know, obviously, MacJones, it is, it astonishes me but not really because we talked about it before in our post draft show. I know for a moral certainty that belcheck was calling like he was that source saying that the you know, the Rams or or The 49er's are going to take Mac Jones number three overall, that was him. He like he was just throwing all these different feelers just to see like, who the league is stupid, right, everyone that did not take Mac Jones after Trevor Lawrence was selected and needed a quarterback is an idiot. That's what he's proven. He's not I just he doesn't have a, you know, a cannon of an arm. But, again, I'm not comparing the two, but it's our most relevant comparison. Look back at Oh, 1023. Brady wasn't throwing as hard as far as he is now. So I think that they can grow into it. I and I also, if you just really look at what the things that we've always talked about for Belichick and drafting is stop trading down, trade up, right? Or draft a quarterback? You know, and it turns out, I might have been wrong. And we all might have been wrong about wanting him to select a quarterback to learn under Brady, because maybe that was never gonna be a realistic possibility. Because you never know how long Brady was gonna play for. Maybe you should have stacked a team around Brady and extend his time here, whatever. But in this draft, Christian Barmore, right. I mean, he traded what his second round into fourth rounds just to move up eight spots to get him. That is the most unbelt Checky and thing to do, because he loves I mean, he loves those fourth round picks when he moved them to make sure that he could get his guy because there was no reason that that that Barmore fell. I think he might he may have had some off field issues in college that were never really described. And I think he underperformed on the was it the aptitude test at the combine. But overall, I also think, sorry, this is long run. I also think that we talk a lot about Belichick Not being able to draft offensive talent. I think Craig and Ray said that the last time I was on, it might have been I'll just blame Rachel, he's not here. You can defend yourself. Correct. So I don't want to go after you. But the one position offensively that Belichick has hit on 80% of the time is running back. Right 2021 Rhamondre Stevenson. I'd say he did pretty well. He hit Yep. So we go 2019 Damien Harris. I'd say that's a hit. 2018 Sony Michel say what you want. He was a big factor in that playoff run in 2018 Absolutely. I think we can call that if not a hit at the wash. Right. James White 2014 That's a hit. Huge hit. 2013 I mean, I'm just gonna go through until 2000 wants to just bear with me. I want you to hear the names that are on this list. 2013 the draft running back 2012 No running backs 2011 Shane Verren hit. Yeah, he

Joe Malkin: 15:57

did pretty well for two amazing

Michael Marcangelo: 15:59

he went the Giants after the Patriots and just gone as Steven Ridley fumbled a lot, man, but had 1000 yard season. Yeah, I'd say it was a hit. So if you just think about all the people who were only at 2009. So there there are others that earlier in the 2000s that that that he missed on, but I think he's drafted 12 Or sorry, 10 running backs, I'd say eight of them. Seven of them are hits. That is a phenomenal track record. And it also shows you what my last point of it. You never need to overpay or running back. Ever. It highlights my your if your best player is a running back, you will never win a Super Bowl argument more than anything. Because, again, they're they're I'm not saying that they're disposable. But they're kind of fucking disposable, right? If you get someone that fills your need and fits your scheme, they will do what you need them to do.

Joe Malkin: 16:59

James White, Kevin Faulk Shane Verren.

Michael Marcangelo: 17:01

Yeah, none of these people are Hall of Famers. But they were all 1000 yard rushers at least or they all had, you know, 35 catches for, you know, 400 yards as they're out of the backfield. Right? No, I think we have never given him the credit that he deserves in terms of his draft history and draft record for running backs. And I'm here to tell you, if there's one guy that you want drafting a running back, because he'll never overpay for it when their contract is up. And you always know that he can cycle back in it still belcheck,

Joe Malkin: 17:31

which if we look at, and this is where we're gonna cross from drafted into free agency, which is why we'll get the length of every free agent that was signed this offseason for five years. Because how long is a rookie contract for first round quarterback for the fifth, right fourth or the fifth? So Stephenson being a fourth round pick I don't think carries that many years. But that doesn't mean he can't. And that doesn't mean that you can't sell the team, the way it's being constructed. That's what Rhamondre Stevenson was and Craig and I have been high on him since week one of the preseason. I've just I've loved the way the kid runs. He understands the game of football. He understands where the holes are, and to go hit the hole. Very rarely do you see 38 for the Patriots go somewhere that he shouldn't go it happens. I mean, it's gonna happen click holes, close, guys get blocked into him. Fine, it happens. But this kid runs hard. And he runs really well. And he's fun to watch and he can catch passes out of the backfield and do absolutely need them to. He's probably not going to like that's gonna be the Brandon Bolden type of guy, which, let's say what you want about Brandon Bolden. I will. The guy is he's been a big special teams contributor for this team. And he has stepped in where he is needed to he's not going to come in and be James White. He's not that level. And James White on many other teams might be like Shane Vereen, but Brandon Bolden is going to get the job done for you. So to go kind of cross the draft again. Why did he draft Rhamondre Stevenson and not a wide receiver? Because Bill Belichick doesn't draft well with wide receivers. He drafts defense, and he drafts running backs. And I mean, so far with quarterbacks? I mean, I would say the Brady was a hit. I mean, he's done. All right. Mac Jones so far. Again, we're 10 weeks in and this is, this is another thing that we have to do is that we're 10 weeks in this team of six and four. They haven't won a Super Bowl, they haven't won a playoff game. They haven't done anything since Tom Brady left. So let's give it more time, but where they sit right now. They need to keep this up and and continue to move forward. So looking at the guys that they brought in otherwise, I mean, Kendrick Borne another guy that I've been saying you have to utilize Kendrick Borne and more. Well, I mean, Bill Belichick knows what he's doing because he's utilizing Kendrick Borne more in the run game and in the passing game, and I catch that he had for that touchdown, which happened right in front of me in Gillette Stadium was it what did it like? It was almost a catch of the season type of catch.

Michael Marcangelo: 20:18

So ballsy throw to that, you know, like it's because he trusted his guy to go up and get it

Joe Malkin: 20:24

What is right, and that's another thing that has come with 10 weeks of playing with each other now right is 10 we look at the touchdown throw he threw to Hunter Henry in the corner of the endzone. Rookie quarterbacks don't make that throw lay. And I'm not saying that because this is Mac Jones, the New England Patriots. Rookie. quarterbacks don't make that throw. They just don't. Yeah, that's a big boy throw. And he made a lot of big boy throws on Sunday afternoon. And, you know, he had the touchdown to Hunter Henry in the Dallas game that he had to go up and, you know, basically caught at the apex. I mean, these Hunter Henry touchdowns have been incredible. I know, Mike, I wasn't

Michael Marcangelo: 21:06

gonna bring it up. Just do it. already. Just do it.

Joe Malkin: 21:09

But, but there's no reason to see this is this is where I think you're like, You got to come at me. And it's like, we don't because sure you thought Jonnu Smith was gonna be the better of the two titans.

Michael Marcangelo: 21:20

That's not it, though. That's not it for context purposes. Because you're being nice. I get it's because you're a little boosted right now. But I said, I would much rather have Jonnu Smith. He's more durable. He's stronger. He's faster than Hunter Henry that six foot five to 100 and nothing made a class tight end that will not do anything for you. I was wrong. We love

Joe Malkin: 21:46

big lumbering, tight ends here in New England, though. It's the Rob Gronkowski Ben coats, like give me a big or no lumbering Titans that can do a little bit of everything, and make athletic plays. And you know what? We all said it. I mean, you were absolutely right about you were right about him. He was made of glass. But this year, you've been wrong. And that's okay. And it because, you know, we mentioned it every week in our Discord. Every time the Patriots win. Oh, 111 closer to Anthony Treash's. You know, prediction for the Patriots for the season? Well, he said four to five wins. They now have sticks.

Craig D'Alessandro: 22:27

I'll defend him on that. We did that interview before they've been drafted Mack Jones.

Joe Malkin: 22:32

Sure. Absolutely. And we had that conversation with him about who the quarterback was going to be. And I believe he said Cam Newton. And at that point, there we go again. It was right. So you know what, we're gonna get to him too. But great. Just such a good win for the Patriots over the browns. It's probably their best one on the season. So far. They've played very good teams very well. They played Tampa well. Well, the only game The only two games that really did not play well. Were New Orleans and Houston. And they still won the Houston game

Michael Marcangelo: 23:02

Miami. You should block was it now? Now? It looks it looks a little better now because they beat the Ravens. Right? But I mean, when Miami lost the Jaguars, I was like that. And so you know, race that to that is getting worse and worse. Every single, you know, to two against really good teams so far. I won't say the Browns are really good. But you know, they were five before coming in.

Joe Malkin: 23:27

They're above average. Yeah.

Michael Marcangelo: 23:29

I mean, they're building on something. A four game winning streak is, you know, if we were to have this conversation after, you know, after six games on there, two and four. I thought if we were to look at their schedule and say they're going to win four in a row, not many people would have said, you know, I think they are and in typical Patriot fashion. The season is opening up for them. Now, you know, we can talk a little bit about this, but like, Derrick Henry, he's out. Not gonna play with the Titans. Calvin Ridley and oh my god, what? No, I think he's gonna play who was there who are there? Oh, Patterson. Cordelle Patterson. Of course. Now he's a factor. Now he's out like this is always what happened in the 2010 through 2014. Era. Like we didn't win a Super Bowl, but we got to a couple it the season just opened up. So let's see what they could do to capitalize on it.

Joe Malkin: 24:25

Well, that's the biggest thing here right like Thursday's almost a trap game against the Falcons because it's like you can't go down there on a short weekend lose. Now granted, they got smoked by Dallas on Sunday. So they're not doing very well either. But following Atlanta, you have four pretty tough games. Yeah. I mean, you're looking at a Tennessee team that is still winning football games. You have so you got the Falcons. What

Michael Marcangelo: 24:56

I would just say about that is Belichick has always been able to beat Tannahill when he's their best weapon. He's always had a hard time beating a Tannahill a team when there's a supplemental weapon. So if he knows that all he has to do is just really focus on making 10 He'll make a mistake. I think we'll be okay because that Tennessee defense isn't what it was two or three years ago. I mean, there's a real chance that game is, you know, one of those 2117 2118 In games, and if that's the case, I like the Patriots hearts because, again, our defense isn't it is not stellar in any category besides points allowed, which is I mean, they're ranked right behind right behind the bills. But there, again, is long as Bill Belichick is calling the place and has his hand on that defense and Mac. He doesn't. You know, the thing is, he doesn't have to play like he did on Sunday, every game. He really doesn't. If he does 75% of that, though, when?

Joe Malkin: 25:59

Yeah, I mean, it was a defense and the way the defense is playing, and, you know, it's when I said that there's going to be a tough stretch for the Patriots afterwards, or after the Falcons game. It actually not only opens up in terms of kind of injuries for other teams, it also opens up in days between games. So the Patriots will play against the Falcons on Thursday night. In week 11. Week, 12. They're a Sunday afternoon game against the Titans at one o'clock, then they don't play again until the following Monday night in Buffalo, then it's their bye week. Then they're back for the Colts on the road. And then buffalo here. So they they do have some tough opponents coming up in the bills in the Colts basically, I wouldn't call Atlanta but knock on wood, because any given Thursday, I guess. Yeah. But yeah, I mean, things open up. And you're right Mac doesn't have to play out of his mind. And, again, as you mentioned earlier, it's our closest and fairest comp. Tom Brady didn't throw for 350 yards, 300 yards every game in the 2001 2003 in 2004 seasons, but they made it work. And I mean, you don't if you have a good defense, if you have a enable running game, and you have a quarterback that can put the ball where it needs to be with receivers that can catch the football which seems to be something that they've figured out you can win games and win Super Bowls. Training did it Why can't Mac Jones

Michael Marcangelo: 27:34

Well, because he's a rookie no rookies, everyone Super Bowl before but I do think, Danny I do think you know, the talent that is around Mac. I just, I'm really I'm just really impressed with it. I'm happy about it.

Joe Malkin: 27:50

So moving on, we're gonna move into the need for suck. Some of that might need to be cut out because that would that would look alright. There's been there's four big stories in the NFL coming out of week. 10 like picking number one through four to number two, not the number two story in the NFL or at least while I would say it's an NFL story, but also here in New England was Cam Newton resigning with his old team, the Carolina Panthers. he resigns. It basically said that PJ Walker is going to be the starter we all saw Greg sent it to us. And then Cam Newton basically started some plays the whole game. He threw for a touchdown. He ran for a touchdown. He also got a 15 yard penalty on the rushing touchdown. And Twitter went nuts when he got this penalty. And I can't believe that gave him an excessive celebration penalty for taking on this helmet, friends, family loved ones. You cannot do that. It does not matter if your name is Cam Newton. Tom Brady. Colin Kaepernick. Michael Vick, it doesn't matter what your name is or what, you know, any. It's a penalty. It's a 15 yard penalty. It gets called all the time. And I think cam knew what he was getting into. So besides the point, what do you think of Cameron Newton resigning with his old team and helping them win winning game this weekend?

Michael Marcangelo: 29:17

I mean, he's a guy that has like enough talent to be on an NFL roster, but he should be and the things that kept him off of it. It looks like he you know, he did what he needed to do so good for him. I loved that. Everyone knew what that first touchdown that he scored that he was going to run it. They could stop it. They just could not stop it. I think. I think he's a good story. And I think he does a lot for locker room. I think he loves Carolina. I think he loves the city of Charlotte. And so whenever I hope that he's really successful. So I will say though, I'm a big PC Walker fan, big XFL guy and he was the MVP of that league before got cut short and despite the fact that Cam Newton and Christian McCaffrey obviously the stories of that game, PJ Walker 2229 167 yards. Pretty good.

Joe Malkin: 30:11

Maybe they'd be they'd been a pretty good team to I mean, I tell you a depleted team. But they'd be a team that should be pretty good. I mean, they'd be Colt McCoy without DeAndre Hopkins. I mean, Jim piglet listen as long as James Connors running well, for my fantasy team, I don't really care what's going on there in Arizona. So just real quick to go back to the Kenyan part and I echo your sentiment about Cam Newton. I hope he does well there. Wouldn't it be funny if he led that team to the playoffs or helped lead that team to the playoffs? That would just be fine. But also what's funny to me, Mike, is that not only PJ Walker, but the fact that the Carolina Panthers moved on from Cam Newton they thought they had their next guy in words was that? No, it was Alan. And then they signed Bridgewater was the Alan kid they thought could it and then they said, we're bringing in Bridgewater, they brought in Bridgewater that didn't work out. They shipped them off to Denver are paying seven and a half, seven and a half million dollars of your salary. They trade for Sam Donald use on his rookie contracts, though, so he's only getting paid like $900,000. Then they go on sign PJ Walker, who's also only making $900,000. And then they say, well, let's go sign Cam Newton for four and a half million. So really, they spent a lot of money to mismanage their quarterback position. I find that absolutely hilarious.

Michael Marcangelo: 31:44

Yeah, I mean, it's pretty much the opposite of what we were talking about. For the Patriots right like running backs are disposable quarterbacks are not you have to hit on it, you have to be really sure about it, or else you're going to be in a situation where you're paying $14 million right now for for a quarterback, one of which isn't even on the team. When you said 7 million for Bridgewater to go and get hurt or lead Denver to a winner or Washington's eagles. I mean, it's a fireable offense to miss that often. I I was surprised by Sam Donald at the beginning of the season.

Joe Malkin: 32:18

No, he came back down to earth real quick. Yeah, I

Michael Marcangelo: 32:20

think that's his peak. I think that was the you saw him at his peak. And I don't think that his peak is sustainable.

Joe Malkin: 32:26

So your next number is three. Hmm, great. The number three is Tom Brady and the Tampa Bay Buccaneers losing to the Washington football team 29 to 19. And Tom Brady throwing two interceptions in the first quarter and it was in that story in that game had Gillette Stadium, all Twitter, because it they everyone wanted to talk about how Mac was playing well. And Brady was thrown picks and losing to Washington and lost to a Washington team that did not have Chase young in the second half and he's torn his ACL which is awful for him and for the NFL because he's just a transcendent player. But raid Brady in the Bucs fall to six and four Luna Washington. That division is wide open to for Cam Newton and the Carolina cup. Right?

Michael Marcangelo: 33:22

Yeah, I mean, here's the thing, like we all remember last year again, remember the Buccaneers were seven and five before they went on the run. Now a lot of things went well, the defense set up their defenses. Terrible this year, they brought back every single starter from the Super Bowl. And they're just terrible. Right? But you don't like this game? I think it's easy to paint the narrative like Brady blew it. Yeah. And sure he did, I sure. But he's always had those teams that he just doesn't do well again. And if you really look at it, before they changed their name, Washington was never a good team for Brady to go Yes. Even when he was a patriot. What when they won, there was one, I think one winner in the 2017 and when they blew them out, but when you go back, and maybe 1011 Like they're close 2004 They're close. So like in Brady always played, you know, like a mortal and in Miami. So like that happens. Every quarterback has a team that they have a hard time against. I think in this case, if Brady does not play the way that we all expect him to play, Tampa Bay does not have the coach to elevate them. We said this last year, we there was my first blog ever when we we had a podcast and is saying like he was great. But everyone else around him was also coached great. So they knew where to be Ariens gets exposed for what he is as a coach in games like this because everybody's freelance and man, everybody, nobody has any direction. It's really hard to get them to do what you want them to do or what you think they're supposed to do. And that might be the downfall of this team. I will also say though, I do expect I do expect the Bucs to still win 12 games

Joe Malkin: 35:17

slowly and they're going to win 12 games they're going to be in the playoffs because they do have the team now grand they have No Gronkowski and they have no Antonio Brown right now, which kind of rounds out that wide receiving core or the, you know, the weapons for Tom. And then the defense has just been bad. But that doesn't mean that they can't I mean, there's a lot of season left, you gotta remember we're in week 10 of 18. I mean that there's a lot of season last year, teams still have seven games to play eight in some cases, who have already had a bye week. So yeah, they'll have 12 games, but it was very interesting to see that they lost. And what was really ballsy is that River Boat Ron Rivera, went out. And with nine minutes left in the game and only up four points. He goes for it on fourth down and scores a touchdown. Knowing full well, I either got a score and put this game out of redrum given the ball back to Tom Brady, eight minutes, only down four, it was a button that if it fails, he looks like a dummy, but it didn't. And he looks like a genius. And it was a very well coached game from Washington. And they played well, and they did what they needed to do to get it done.

Michael Marcangelo: 36:34

Yeah, I think riverboat Ron baits himself more often than it actually works for him. But you gotta love the fact that, at least in this situation, it feels like, you know, he can rally that tea. I don't know. Like, I don't know what it is. Because if you look at like, you know, you never look back at him and say like, he's a great motivator. Like, he's not like a mike Tomlin, you know, Mike Tomlin can actually motivate the entire team to do whatever they need to do. Say what you want about him as coach I often do is a great motivator. I think Ron Rivera, like this is the perfect team for him. Like they're just gutsy, right? And they're not conventional. They, they don't have five, you know, stars in that team. They have like they have to their cheap t shirt and turn McClaren and like that, that literally is it, but to a high degree, 26 to 32 to 56, and a touchdown. That's impressive. And we saw flashes of that in their division or in the wild card game last year. That kid is fearless.

Joe Malkin: 37:31

Yeah, he can manage gains and he can make the throws a need to be made. He's not great. But Dare I say he's better than Sam Darnold. Yeah, he's sustainable. You sustainable? That's a good word for it. He's sustainable. And you know, when Fitzpatrick went down last year in the playoffs and again this year he stepped in and does his job and I think riverboat. Ron, I think Ron Rivera is a is a motivator. I think I think he has a different approach. But I think and I mean, anybody that is diagnosed with cancer, and then still coaches throughout all the treatments during a COVID season.I mean, I I would go and run through walls for that guy right now. You know, they usually I think that's just the type of guy he's that he's tough as nails. And I think his players are like, Alright, man, this guy's got our back. We're gonna get his kind of thing. All right, you got two choices left.

Michael Marcangelo: 38:26

Yeah, I'm gonna go with four.

Joe Malkin: 38:27

We're gonna go for Alright, so the fourth one, crap, I forgot what it was again. So we had the Oh, the fourth one was the Pittsburgh Steelers. Leah's Pittsburgh Steelers. If you don't know who he is. That's Dave Clarke's fiancee tying with the Detroit Lions 1616 This week, which erases any possibility of a Lions oh and 17 season. And it puts the Steelers at five three and a one in overall and second in the division behind Baltimore, I believe still, because Cincinnati and Cleveland have kind of fallen off surprise surprise in Ohio. But a tie in the NFL, which have they become common in the last 10 to 15 years. Of course Najee Harris the rookie running back from Pittsburgh Steelers had no idea that you could tie in the NFL, which, again, don't hit me NAB did the same thing. It's like how do you guys not know the rules of the game that you play like?

Michael Marcangelo: 39:30

Me? It is stupid. I mean, it is it is ridiculous.

Joe Malkin: 39:33

Why settle, settle it in 60 minutes, and if you cancel in 60 minutes, here's 10 More, figure it out. Or you don't

Michael Marcangelo: 39:41

listen. You're not gonna spend a lot of time on this game. I couldn't care any less about either of the teams. Neither team wanted to wait and that was evident based off of the of overtime like it was that was. That was like watching the XFL back in 2001. It was a terrible football product. So yeah, what I have loved for the Steelers to lose sure because I hate them. I absolutely hate the Steelers. Sorry, we're dubbing personal. And you know, that's really it. I don't have a horse in that race. So great. They tied. I hope both teams tie every game for the rest of the season.

Joe Malkin: 40:21

And then we'll change the rules because there's too many times That's how this works. So the number one story in football, the one you didn't pick was Odell Beckham Jr. Leaving the Cleveland Browns, and becoming a free agent last week they originally put him they released them, put them on waivers, any team that picked them up would have had to pay seven and a half million dollars of his remaining salary. And of course, the reason why they did that that was part of the bargaining deal with Odell to say, hey, we're going to put you on nobody's going to take it. You're going to clear waivers you can go play wherever you want the report initially and then late was that he was going to sign with New England, because he has a good relationship with Bill Belichick following more discussion and time after the he cleared waivers. It became evident that he was going to sign with Green Bay, Kansas City or the Los Angeles Rams are the Saints, you're gonna get off I'm sorry, the saints and then the Rams came out of the woodwork a little bit, you know, and then it was everybody talked about why it wouldn't be good that he would go to Green Bay and I don't know, I feel like that locker room could explode at any point. New Orleans doesn't seem like a very stable situation and he wants a quarterback that's gonna throw to him. So he signed with what has been dumped by others, not by me, not by Mike not by Craig dubbed a possible super team. Because of the guys they've gone out and traded for and signed and brought in. So Beckham does that he signs there on Friday after saying Thursday after saying that he was going to wait until after the Sunday games rover, which was a Crocky when signed with the rams and then suited up and played in the Monday night football game. Against the leg

Michael Marcangelo: 42:14

they play last night. The San Francisco 49ers cheering

Joe Malkin: 42:18

Cisco 40 Niners. That's right, because that was actually a fun game to watch. And of course,

Michael Marcangelo: 42:24

clearly a bit based on your recollection of it. It sounds like it was going on.

Joe Malkin: 42:28

I got I got the haze the booster haze, right. The Rams go out and essentially lay an egg is Matt Stafford with Odell Beckham Jr. Now is one of his wide receivers. He did have two catches for 18 yards. But Matt Stafford throws two first quarter picks that result in touchdowns one that was picked six, both by the same guy and the 49ers win 3110 I guess the question is Mike did the did Odell Beckham Jr. Not signing with New England? Was that a good decision for both parties? And two? Is he going to wreck that rams?

Michael Marcangelo: 43:10

Now? Now we know it must stop. He's going to wreck that team that team has. I mean, if you really think about the players that have come to that locker room since McVeigh has been there, they've had some characters. I mean, they've had Ndamukong Suh. Aaron, Donald, Aqib Talib. Jalen Ramsay, and they all made deep playoff runs. So I think that he's I think the McVeigh can he can hold a row. I'm not worried about that. My problem with this with the Odell Beckham thing, is not recognizing the fact that he's a transformational talent. Now, sure, I get it. You don't like him? You think he might be a headcase or locker room pariah using his juice? What? Whatever it might be. He is a transformational talent. And if you have a chance to get him on the cheap after waivers, you know, maybe you make an offer, I think for a team with a strong head coach, a strong foundation. He can't hurt you. He really can add as long as you have, as long as you have that now in New England, would he? Would there have been this pressure from Mac to throw to him more? I think that may have been more public that internal. Because I just don't think that bill would have gone that way. I think Bill is the man that decides what happens on the field. And you either get louder you doubt. You know, Randy Moss. Just remember, two years after driving into a traffic cop at a parking lot and being forgotten about in Oakland. He was here breaking Jerry Rice's all time touchdown record for a single season. So it shows you what you can do if you have a a strong head coach and then also in that instance, you know, the greatest quarterback of all time,

Joe Malkin: 45:03

but who's to say And who's to say the Beckham is the same receiver. As Randy Moss he's not I think comparing Randy Moss Odell Beckham Jr. is a he is

Michael Marcangelo: 45:16

no no not traits wise on the field, I'd say but if he talked about they're off the field up to this point, that's how they were. I mean, that's how Randy Moss was. labeled, he was shipped to Oakland, because he was labeled as a pariah in the locker of all thanks to Chris Carter, and Minnesota, right. That's what happened. And then he was able to, you know, for three years here, rejuvenate his career and do what he needed to do. I'm not saying you know, on the field stats that that they're comparable. It just, it feels to me like Odell Beckham, you know, he wants to be. He wants to be the reason that a team wins. And I don't know why we hold that against him. Because we in reality, that's what you should want. Now, it sounds he oftentimes comes off as he wants to be the only reason that they win, which I get can be, you know, kind of annoying. But I mean, that's every quarterback in the league. And every quarterback in the league wants to be the reason their team wins. What

Joe Malkin: 46:15

does because the quarterback along the Titans is the reason the team wins, because that's the way the game is played.

Michael Marcangelo: 46:25

Let me ask you a question. Another rabbit hole. You think? Yeah, I mean, do you honestly think that Joe Montana or Steve Young are great quarterbacks without Jerry Rice? i No,

Joe Malkin: 46:38

no, I don't. But I also think that Jerry Rice Jerry Rice was a again, I'm not comparing it to Jerry Rice is the greatest receiver of all time. Sure. But Jerry Rice is a lot like a Julian Edelman. I mean, he came out of out of a division to school. He was slow, slow for the position. He had football quickness. He wasn't fast. He was quick, like Edelman. Right. And he had good hands and he made a career of that. Do Joe Montana and Steve Young have the success without him? Absolutely not. Does Troy Aikman have the success without Emmitt Smith and Michael Irvin? No. But those two teams also don't have the success without the defense. So,

Michael Marcangelo: 47:32

but I think no, my overall point is, though, is that Jerry Rice had that innate thing in him that he wanted to be the reason why the team won. He wanted to know about

Joe Malkin: 47:40

it. Sure. And that but that's a big thing that comes into the game now is that these guys, we've seen so many times, Mike, that the guys that keep their mouth shut or learn to keep their mouth shut. Figure out a way to be the best that figure out a way to be great. You didn't see it. Let's bring Jakobi Meyers back into this conversation. Because if you want to call him number one, Odell Beckham was number one in the NFL. Let's talk about these two. If you want to talk about Jakobi Meyers being a number one receiver, you didn't see him for the last two seasons or in 2019 saying, Hey, man, I'm the guy throw me the ball in the end zone. You didn't see him doing that this year when Hunter Henry was scoring seven touchdowns, but Odell Beckham Jr. goes out and because Baker Mayfield lab thrown to him Daddy's got to make a Twitter video and put it out. I mean, the guy is 29 years old. Let's not

Michael Marcangelo: 48:35

we wired. Why are we holding the sins of the father against him? Because he put it out into the the universe. Odell Beckham did it or his dad did

Joe Malkin: 48:46

it his dad did but who's to say that he wasn't a part of that? I am

Michael Marcangelo: 48:50

because apparently you're here to say that he was so I have to be the opposite of so but here I'm gonna say this due to his his Terrell Owens was a was a class one asshole. But when that man broke his leg he played in the Super Bowl. It was almost the reason why

Joe Malkin: 49:04

Beckham Jr. would have done the same thing.

Michael Marcangelo: 49:06

I don't think he's ever been given the opportunity to do it.

Joe Malkin: 49:10

No, but Terrell Owens, while he was a showboat one shirt, I don't mean he was nothing, but like, I'm gonna make a distinction because that's what we're doing. He was an ass. He wasn't an asshole. Odell Beckham Jr. is an ask.

Michael Marcangelo: 49:26

I don't know. I'm pretty sure Jerry Rice we consider Terrell Owens was an asshole. So Jeff Garcia Donovan McNabb, Tony Romo, the only person that would it would be Ocho Cinco. Well, they were at Cincinnati.

Joe Malkin: 49:38

Jeff Garcia doesn't have a say but besides the point, Odell Beckham Jr. While you say he's a transcendent talent, transformational talent trip transformational talent, what do you what does that mean to you? I mean, if if we were to say that the Patriots wide receiver right now out of a 10 based on what they have not tight at wide receiver core is rated like a six. Odell Beckham, Jr. on that team makes them an eight and a half just by being there. He makes everybody's life easier just by being on the field because you make everybody's life easier. Yeah. By being a field if he goes out and he has a his career high in receptions. 101. He had 91 in his rookie season 96 in his second year, and 101, in his third year, since then, his highest is 77. In 2018, is last year with the Giants. Granted in 2017, he was injured in 2020. He only played half the season this year. He's only played in seven games. So he may make them an eight and a half on the fields. But with a and I know that you've signed so this is literally all speculation. But with his attitude and the way he essentially shot his way out of Cleveland, if you put him on this team, does he not ruin what we just talked about? For the first half of this show? Does he not affect that chemistry? And that style due to walking in the room? Basically thinking, thinking whether it's known or not thinking, I'm the best guy in this room, this rookie quarterback he was gonna throw to me. Now, regardless of what Bill Belichick says, and does, that superseding what Bill Belichick is doing?

Michael Marcangelo: 51:31

Let me ask let me ask you a quick question. I his first three seasons in the league, what were the years 14 1516? Who was the coach of the giants?

Joe Malkin: 51:42

What does it call from skill?

Michael Marcangelo: 51:43

Yeah, that's how you know he would when he has that guy, what's it, Eli Manning is not a whole Oh, he might be off, and I'm not gonna get

Joe Malkin: 51:52

one, two Super Bowls at that point. So you put him on a team Baker Mayfield has done nothing in the NFL, for all intents and purposes gets, neither is Mac Jones. So Matt Stafford, Matt Stafford title, we haven't either coach,

Michael Marcangelo: 52:05

when you win, I know, based off of historical evidence to date, when he has a strong head coach, and a quarterback that is a pass first quarterback, let's just say that. I think he'll be fine. I don't think he's going to be to turn. Now again, as we talked about, on this show, I'm wrong. A lot, I could be wrong about this.

Joe Malkin: 52:26

Well, but that's the thing is, you're never going to get an opportunity to be wrong about this. Because he's never gonna, he's never gonna be on this team. Well, we'll

Michael Marcangelo: 52:33

figure out if he poisons the Rams or not, like that will be evident because he is good. As a locker room leader and I got I can hold the room as the Gay is, you know, that team will let us know, through the media or through you know, you know, social media, whatever, when it all fell apart. And if there was a if there's a lie that you could draw on it says, hey, you know, they were like seven, or they were six and two when he got here. And after he got here they went, you know, two and seven. That's a pretty clear indicator that he was poisonous.

Joe Malkin: 53:04

Yeah, and I would agree with that. And I just think I, I think it was strange that they signed him in the first place because they have a good thing though. In there, they have an above average tight end and Tyler Higbee they have Cooper cup, they have a number one receiver already. So not and I'm not saying that you can't bring in a one and have a one in one a or one a one b that that's fine. I mean, it happens. It's happened before and that's okay. But I can see a similar thing happening in LA that happened in Cleveland, where, well, I'm not getting my targets keep throwing to Higbee your cup. So that's where McVeigh needs to nip it in the bud and and say listen, you're coming into to do this. We have these guys already. You are a role player who you are Odell Beckham, Jr. You're very Yes. On the surface on the home. He is a very good receiver. I don't think he's elite. I just don't. I never thought he was because when you talk about that giants team, it's so interesting. You mentioned that because to two things that they had were the coach and the quarterback. The Patriots have the coach I think the rams have the coach and the quarterback. You and I have always been pretty high on Stafford I Stafford's tough as nails Man, that guy if Mack Jones is half as tough as Matt Stafford in his career, we've already I mean, we've already won that checkbox. But that's the thing that that Odell had in New York was that he was drafted to be the guy. And he was drafted by a Hall of Fame coach that had a two time Super Bowl winning quarterback. And it was, hey, this is what we're going to do. So now, he's come on to that and said, Hey, look at what I did. I need to be able to do that again. But he hasn't done anything since he left giants. He hasn't done anything since he left there. So he has lost that he has lost that ability to say I'm the guy Give me the ball. And that's what he did in Cleveland. And he wasn't the guy.

Michael Marcangelo: 55:08

I know. I would just say I guess my final point on this is I think wide receivers often catch a lot of flack for being voiceless about, about wanting to be the reason and wanting their targets and wanting the ball right. I think some of its So that's unfair. I think if you're a professional football player, and you're not advocating for the ball all the time, as a receiver, then like, maybe so people would actually question why you're there. If you don't want to be there to be the best why the hell are you there in the first place? Right? I think I they also a lot of Odell Beckham's misfortunes do fall upon the quarterback. I'm not saying he's blameless. But when you have a guy like Eli Manning, who isn't afraid to spray the ball anywhere, anywhere, right, he will not be manipulated to only throw to Odell right? And won't happen. Odell will do well, when you have someone like Baker Mayfield, or Daniel Jones, I don't think ever play with him. But I will say a baker Mayfield who feels like oh, I had this new shiny toy, I'm just gonna feed them the entire time, then like, yeah, it's gonna fall apart because you can't be one dimensional. What I would say to you, though, is if you look back at Matthew Stafford's time with the Detroit Lions, when they had a number one receiver, like a Calvin Johnson, if you look at their number two, yeah, it was a drop off, right? But it wasn't that big. The drop off is for the third. Because Matthew Stafford will throw anywhere, anytime. If you give him a slight opening, or even not, they'll he'll try and throw somebody open. And I think that right now for the Rams. They're in this really unique, this unique circumstance when they have a really strong minded head coach who can hold a room. They have a quarterback, who's fearless and when he throws and he knows what it's like to work with someone who demands the spotlight as a wide receiver. Now, Calvin Johnson was not an asshole off the field that we know of. Right? We don't know that. But what we do know is what he was on the field. He demanded the ball, and he got it. Well, he's he's,

Joe Malkin: 57:18

he's one of the greatest receivers of all time. Sure, Jr. is not that

Michael Marcangelo: 57:24

well, Odell Beckham, Jr. If he had a quarterback like Matt Stafford, as we've seen, based off of his first three years in New York. What did that do?

Joe Malkin: 57:33

Well, the Cleveland Browns should have done a better job at that and should have gotten somebody other than Baker Mayfield, a Grady, maybe a mack Jones type. But like I know we've gone on a long time here. We're not going to get to everything you necessarily want to get to tonight, but I do know that you had some comments on the Boston Celtics that I do want to mix in to try and get to that audience

Michael Marcangelo: 57:56

as well. Yeah, let's I mean, it's not gonna be long. It's just an extension of my ally. I'm a Jalen brown fan over Jayson Tatum fan. And here's why after after a another a win against the Cleveland Cavaliers last night. Jayson Tatum, who again shot terribly big surprise to them all year long as their number one as their number one, you know, person on the team, their leader, he this guy just tries to shoot his way out of anything. Do you know I'm gonna, I'm gonna give you a stat here. There are 36 people in the league this year that have attempted more than 200 field goals. Jayson Tatum's shooting percentage of feel good percentage, he's 35th. He is the second worst shooter based on volume in the league this year is filled with percentages. 38% is three poor percentages. 31% Oh, and now this guy, my biggest complaint against him. All he does is try to drive to the basket to go to the line. He's shooting 76% for free throws. It's time I'm sorry. He's not the guy. Now he might be the guy somewhere else. I promise. I told you this two weeks ago. If if whoever leaves between him and Jaylen Brown, they're going to be an elite NBA player for a lot of time, and they might win the championship. You're just gonna have to suck on that Celtics fence. And what I'm telling you is you want to get him out of here because Jaylen Brown is the guy that you can build a team around. He's gritty. He's selfless. He will pass first instead of shoot first. And in the postgame press conference last night they want and Tatum's. Yeah, you know, wasn't my greatest shooting night. But you know, I have confidence in myself whether I'm seven for 30 or if I'm scoring 50 or 60. I can shoot my shoot my way out of this. Fuck off. Don't shoot joy out of it, pass the ball make other people better because, again, Ray said it, uh two weeks ago, and he's right. They're still playing two on five. And they're not going to win a championship doing that. So my answer to that or my remedy to that situation is to remove Jayson Tatum and I promis it might set you back. It migh set you back for a year or two And he's going to be a grea player. He's never Ever go int an A championship here? It wil never hoist that trophy as Boston Celtic

Joe Malkin: 1:00:32

I will only add, I will not read but because I agree Kyrie Irving was a negative influence on Jason Tatum. Thank you for joining us for missing the point. My name is Joe Malkin. He's Mike Mark Angelo. We got Craig Craig's doing stuff. He's spinning the tables and make it sound good. Exactly. That's it. So thank you again for joining us for another episode of MTP. We'll talk to you next time