The Search for the Next Boston Celtics Head Coach & Jayson Tatum All-NBA Team Snub

Joe Malkin: 0:24

Welcome to missing the point. My name is Joe Malkin. I'm your host this evening, joined by Bob Kelly, Mike Mark Angelo and Craig D'Alessandro and we have a lot to talk about. We don't really know where to start with this one. So we're going to start in the NBA. And the reason we're going to start in the NBA is we had Joe sway put them down in the comments or in the show notes below. Thanks, Craig on last week to talk about the Boston Celtics, the state of the Boston Celtics, and now that were more than a week removed from Danny Ainge, stepping down and Brad Stevens taking over as president of basketball operations. The Boston Bruins are still without a head coach, a Boston Bruins Boston Celtics go without a head coach. But we'll get to that their head coach can stay for now. But in terms of the Celtics, and I guess the first thing we'll bring up is this billboard that's, that's now on I 90 on the mass pike. That is Bobby, you had it right there if you if you want to read what the billboard says.

Rob Kelly: 1:27

Yeah. So specifically, right on the mass pike is as the Celtics practice practice facility, it's time to shake it up. Hire Kara, or Becky? Which I think I speak for itself.

Joe Malkin: 1:37

Yeah, we talked about this right. So we brought this up. The last time we we reacted the day that all this happened, and had this conversation of who's going to be the next head coach. And really, the second half of that show was us just Geeking over who the next head coach of the Boston Celtics is going to be. And nothing really has happened yet. And here's my hot take. I think there's a chance that Brad Stevens is still the head coach of this team. By the time the regular season starts.

Michael Marcangelo: 2:11

Yeah, I just all the reports coming out saying that he was burnt out to being the head coach, I don't think it and I mean, we there was a report in one of the and one of the big, the big outlets over the last couple of weeks, or the last couple days sorry that he lost the locker room and he knows it so he can't go back. Now he can't. He has to he has to do something to inspire change. And, you know, if you listen to that interview with with Joe sway, what you'll hear is that the players were visibly shaking and upset when when, when Kara Lawson left for for Duke. Right. And so you, you got to get her. I mean, I understand that she she may have that commitment where she she went there she went there to winter rain she recruited. Her season was stopped by COVID. I think she's like foreign one as a head coach. But in reality, she was one of the one of the people that was working with Marcus smart to tweak his his his three point shooting. She also has commanded the respect of everyone in that locker room, which is it feels like something that Brad lost. So you in my opinion, you got to do you have to do something like that. And honestly, I'm over the whole, like, let's hire a woman. I think she's the most qualified, I don't, I don't care. It doesn't matter to me that she happens to also be a woman. I think now is the time to do something like this. And when you have someone that commands the respect of professional basketball players that have already been around around the coach, and they were sad when they left, you bring them back if you can, and that's what they need to do.

Joe Malkin: 3:49

We've seen it in sports at multiple levels. Man, men's sports, women's sports, college level, professional level now. I mean, Pat Summitt is one of the best college coaches of all time, one of the best college coaches of all time. That's end of sentence. She She was incredible at the University of Tennessee, commanded players and even worked with the men's team there while she was there and and never coached him, but worked with him and the court is named after her. So when you say that, that Kara Lawson and Becky Hammon, you know, the billboard says shake it up, which I like, I like shake it up, because it is different. But at the end of the day, you're absolutely right there. They're both qualified to be the head coach of the Boston Celtics. They're both qualified to be the head coach of an NBA team. I think they're both great options. I can still see to two backup. What I said earlier is that Brad Stevens, if he as the president of basketball operations can shake that team up enough from that position. I think there's still a chance that he could be the head coach, but Mike, I posed this question to you could Danny Ainge have been part of the problem as to why he lost the locker room or he was burned out. And to that end, I brought up Kyrie in the past, that move to me was still pretty transcendent in that locker room and i i don't think that helped the situation.

Michael Marcangelo: 5:24

Yeah, I mean, I think for for Danny, right, if you want to go back to that carry move 11 times out of 10 when that when a player like Kyrie is available, you have to go get him 100% you just have to do it. And he let the chips fall where they where they may right and, and for us it didn't work out the way that it should have or the way that we the way that we hoped that it would have. I think, if you look at the team that was constructed around, Kyrie when he first got here with Gordon Hayward, you know, there that was a team that on paper could compete with anybody in the NBA at that given time. Right. So kudos to Danny for putting it together. And not to mention, one of the things that we were really talking about this year was the lack of a bench presence. If you really think about it, that bench dropped them to the Eastern Conference Finals that year. So Danny did everything that he needed to do that year to put a winning team together. And and tobacco, you know, just to, to recall something that I'd said a couple of weeks ago, I think both Danny and Brad were fired. Danny wasn't owed any that much more money left. Brad was so they do what they had to do. But I think the original point, and I know Bobby wants to chime in, too, I think now's the time to do something and whether that something is a Becky Hammon a Kara Lawson, a Sam QSL. It's something that that will fundamentally change the way that the players react to the head coach. Yeah, no,

Rob Kelly: 6:49

I just I completely agree with that, that like, when it comes to Brad Stevens, there's no way you can be back in the head coach and chair next year, I get what you're saying I do think it's a possibility a few years down the road. Either he comes back to the Celtics as a head coach, or is someone somewhere else's head coach, but you can't put him back into the head coaching chair next year, to make that big of a move. At this time directly after the season ended, to dismiss him as head coach and put him as the president, then just to put him back, it would be like backtracking all over again, it would just it would put you back a couple spots and where you just were, when it comes to Kara Lawson I think she's the best head coach possible. When you think about this group of guys. It's such a young, young group, when it comes to how they see the world. You know what I mean? Like you think about this generation right now, the way they see everything, if there's ever a time to put a woman as head coach, it's a group like this, because they don't see it as putting a woman as the head coach. They see it as a basketball mind who's gonna come in here and command the respect to that locker room,

Joe Malkin: 7:57

which is great in an NBA locker room to throw it out, which is greater than NBA locker room because we know all the stigmas and and the stereotypes of an NBA team of an NBA player NBA locker room. And that that would is exactly what it is. And I think I hope the players I just don't like when players mutiny no matter what level it's at. And I don't think that happened here in terms of relieving Brad or I disagree with you. wholeheartedly. Mike, the I don't think they were fired. I think maybe one of them was maybe it was Danny. But that different different conversation.

Rob Kelly: 8:36

There's a difference between there's a difference between a mutiny and losing the Walker. So I completely agree there. I don't

Joe Malkin: 8:42

I mean, a mutiny in the sense that I don't want them to be like, I'm not gonna play if Kara Lawson is not hired kind of thing. That's, that's more what I'm saying. Or, or in the terms of like, we're not gonna play for Brad anymore. Like, that's I saw that at the college level. Not Not me personally. But I've actually seen it multiple times, including with a school in Massachusetts this year, where the players refused to play for a coach. And it ultimately, and this wasn't basketball. And it ultimately ended up in the coach being relieved of his duties. Now, was it the right decision? Probably the program was moving in the right direction. But that that kind of stuff is stuff that I don't like to see, you still have to control that room. But if a guy like Mark is smart, and this brings up another question, if a guy like Marcus smart is saying, Hey, you know, Kara would be great, like, can you know, Brad, can we go get her she we loved her when she was here. We played well when she was here. I may I may do that. If I'm Brad Stevens, partly because that could keep Marcus smart around and make him better.

Rob Kelly: 9:49

That's a whole different topic. If we're talking about keeping Marcus smart around that we're opening up a whole different kettle of worms. But I also think that it comes to a point to where Brad knows Carol Lawson knows his system. Just like we just said she's been here as assistant coach, she's done camp with them. She knows how to motivate these guys and get them to buy into the system. I think that has a lot to go along with it to. The only thing that makes me think it could might not be her is I don't know if you guys saw this report this week. But they said the biggest thing that they're looking for is head coaching. experience, the only experience she has is that Duke and that shortened season. So that goes against her where I think that they could be looking at a guy like Nate McMillan, who's coached a long time in the

Joe Malkin: 10:35

NBA. Well, that wipes out half of the list of coaches. I mean, it

Rob Kelly: 10:39

does, it does wipe out a lot, but that wasn't that was. That was one of the reports, I saw that they're looking for coaching head coaching experience. So I hope that's not the way to go. Because I do think Chauncey Kara Lawson. And those names, Becky Hammon are the way to go. But that's what the report saw. So I think Nate McMillan is a good course here to

Joe Malkin: 11:04

be a mistake for them to to go after someone that has NBA coaching experience just to go after someone has NBA coaching experience, you now have a president of basketball operations, who has eight years of nine years of MBA coaching experience with the team that he is now the president of basketball operations. Well,

Michael Marcangelo: 11:25

to that point, though, Joe team that he's the president of basketball operations for that he

Joe Malkin: 11:29

has zero experience of being the president of the back of the basketball operations for MCI. But let's see here, this is this is where the college game is going to come in for him. Because when he was at Butler, that's who runs the show, when you're the head, head coach of a program that that's that's that big, you're you're basically the I mean, he he knew every single person that he recruited, that he brought in. And that's that's the experience he has. And I actually think that can almost be more valuable, especially at the level that he did it, where he really had to go out and get kids to want to come to Butler that would go to other otherwise bigger programs. Sometimes not necessarily, but otherwise bigger programs. And it's kind of the same problem that we have here in Boston, free agents don't want to sign here. It's not a destination city. So I think that experience for Brad will come into play now. You're absolutely right. Does he have experience as a president of basketball operations? No. But what it's like it's like on a on a job application. When it says all we want you to have five years of experience, it's like, well, you're not always going to get that. And sometimes the best thing to do is get somebody that you can mold and put into your spot, that you want to be what you want it to be. And I have another point. I'll let you guys jump on that. But I have another point about Brad being moved to basketball operations.

Rob Kelly: 12:49

Okay, can we just agree on one thing that the coach that does come in here needs to be in a completely different mold than Brad Stevens, it cannot be this, this this basketball mind. This this strategic type guy at the you know, drawing up the play chalkboard type, it has to be someone who's going to really put some emotion into this club. And that's one of the top four names we bring up a perfect, right, exactly. I completely agree. And that's why those guys are those top candidates. But like when it comes down to is like, we definitely need to change the voice in here. And those four, we keep saying, guys, those four candidates I know I do. For coaching candidates are what? personify that, and I love the direction they're going, I will be very disappointed if we end up with Nate McMillan or someone like that. Because like you just said, Man, we need we need change in here.

Joe Malkin: 13:41

Mike, I want to pose this question to you regarding Brad Stevens with him leaving the coaching role. After the there were the rumors of him going to iu to India and them wanting a head coach that has head coaching experience already. So not necessarily somebody that needs to be groomed. Is this a short term position for Brad Stevens? And is there a chance that he goes back to the college level within the next five years?

Michael Marcangelo: 14:12

Yeah, I think so. It's an interesting question, because I think that that both answers that I'm about to give could be validated. I think if there's initial success that this could turn into a more of a long term role. Right, like if the personnel that he brings in along with the coach if they mesh well, if the if they, you know, 82 game season, I show it to them, they win 50 games, they make a big push, maybe they can get to the finals. I think if they get to the finals, Brad is Brad would want to be here. He wouldn't want to be here to stay. However, if you see another seven, eight succeed kind of finish again next year. I don't think that he's I don't think he's long for this role because he's young. He has this this moniker or this Mystique around him as being a really great head coach that NBA players really that NBA coaches really love. They fear that commands respect not only in the NBA but in the NCAA. So I don't see why. Why if you're him, you would stay to be mediocre. When you can go somewhere else to be paid exponentially more and and literally control like as you said you're the entire thing. Not only the recruiting but With the plays that are run on the court,

Joe Malkin: 15:26

yeah, when you have the opportunity to run the entire program. That's where a guy like Brad Stevens wants to be and mentioned it. The last time we talked about this a couple weeks ago is that Brad Stevens is 44 years old, the same age that Danny Ainge was when he took over as president of basketball operations for the Celtics. And the more I think about it, and the more I talk about it, there's kind of an ominous cloud over this entire situation is they're not you look at this situation with the head coach, they have four great options if they want any one of them or maybe not Carolina, maybe she wants to stay at Duke fine. Maybe not Becky Hammon, maybe she wants to take over for poppin San Antonio, fine. But I think you could go out and get Sam Zell and Chauncey Billups in a heartbeat. But if you don't, to me, if you don't go out for me, if you don't go out and get one of those for coaching candidates to come in and coach this team with this young team, in the direction that it is and Brad camp put together something for that coach to work with. There's just so many unknowns. Yeah, the Celtics team. And it's amazing that it's happened in two years time. We've seen the Nets rebuild, we've seen the Milwaukee Bucks stay about where they are. They're they're an interesting team to watch play. We've seen the Miami Heat. They're they're about as good as they were last year. But we're seeing a lot of good teams still remaining. I mean, we're going west Western Conference now but the Phoenix Suns are so much fun to watch. The LA clippers are a lot of fun to watch. So you're we're coming from a spot where the Boston Celtics were one of the most fun teams to watch in the NBA two years ago to now a seven seat and it's amazing that after all that success that a seven seed and having to play in the playing game, which we really can't put I mean, it's a factor. But it's such a silly factor. I think that was one of the worst moves the NBA made this year. I but I, I loved it. I liked it. I liked it because it added a little bit extra. But I think it didn't do Brad and Danny any favors. So maybe it's just me looking at it through a green lens, basically is what it is like that. I like that green tea. But

Rob Kelly: 17:42

the thing is with this team is it really was that what you can't expect to plug five guys who haven't had any real legitimate NBA experience and crunch time minutes and expect them to actually compete with the best of the NBA. So that's really where like as good as Danny was for all those years. That was his downfall was that 20 from 2018 to 2019. He didn't go out and get those guys that we need to win a championship. He didn't go out and get those James poses. He didn't go out to Spencer, Dinwiddie, he didn't go you know what I mean? Those role players that you need. Instead, we have an heir to new Smith play in those minutes we have we have a Trimont waters playing playoff games we have these guys have no business even being in an NBA game may include crunch time minutes.

Michael Marcangelo: 18:35

That's Bobby, I don't mean to cut you off. I sincerely do not mean to do that. But would you rather have role players that that you fill in every year like different role players? Or would you rather groom a player like in Naismith to be that guy? And if you if you do that, don't you have to play him in these minutes now to make sure that he is the guy that you want him to be in a year or two?

Rob Kelly: 18:55

Yeah, absolutely. But at the same time, you still you can't just rely on them. You know what I mean? That's the thing is like, we were relying on these guys for the minutes when it comes down to is like, yes, you want to get them those crunch time minutes. But you can't rely on a rookie in a crunch time. Like think of ourselves Think about it this way. Tyler herro last year, yes. That he was very important for the VA killed us killed us. Did they need him? No, they didn't need him.

Joe Malkin: 19:26

Well, Bobby, that wasn't the intention of the Celtics, that that wasn't the intention. Right. And

Rob Kelly: 19:30

I so so that's where my point was going was like that's where Danny Ainge,

Joe Malkin: 19:37

that's that's my point is that he went astray because he didn't bring those playmakers in. But those guys getting those minutes this early in their in their career, was not his intention. And what I mean by that is, and the most recent example I can use is the other night in the Brooklyn Nets game where you had James Harden sitting on the bench with a hamstring, and you had Kyrie Irving go down in the second quarter with an ankle injury. And all you had out there was Kevin grant, who missed 23 games in the regular season anyway, but he's still one of the best scorers in the league. But you then were relying on guys that you didn't necessarily have to rely on so what you just said about about Tyler herro do they have to rely on them? Nope. That's why he had a better season last year than he did this year because he was he was under the radar. Did they did the net have to rely on Joe Harris during the Celtics series. No, that's why he played as well as he did. Now they have to rely on him in this series, because he's going to get more minutes along with Blake Griffin and some other guys. But there, he wasn't shooting as well the other night. So my overall overarching point is when they brought in Gordon Hayward, he got hurt. Those guys had to get more minutes. They brought in kemba Walker, he got hurt. Those guys had to get more minutes and Klay Thompson was a shell of himself in Boston.

Michael Marcangelo: 20:57

I wish I wish I wish we had a wish. I know. I wish

Joe Malkin: 20:59

we had Klay Thompson Sorry, I literally shall clean. Oh, man. Yeah, I know. But Tristan Thompson, sorry. So the point is, is that they shouldn't have had to rely on them. And that wasn't the intention. It ended up that way. Because he didn't bring in the filmmaker. So the roleplayer. So I agree with you. But I also disagree with you.

Michael Marcangelo: 21:21

Yeah, well, that which is common. I think that if I think that our conversation is is exponentially different if Jaylen brown and kemba. Walker are healthy, right? Because that what you're talking about right now? Yeah, then what you're talking about is a situation where may Smith and where you're where your boy Payton Pritchard are filling the role that they were designed to fill and their rookie year. Right. But I mean, to your other point, just as a counter, the Boston Celtics lead the Miami Heat in every single fourth quarter of that series last year. So yes, the heat did need Tyler herro to go off like that they needed him to do it. It was required of that to happen for them to win that game. So but was it expected? No. But he was there. And I think your overarching point is we didn't we did not have a Tyler Hara on this team. In reality, it's because the starters that we had, we're not we're not enough to complement the starters of the opposing team.

Rob Kelly: 22:18

Yeah. And and when you think about that team last year, how much? How like, how much we took that team for granted? Yeah, for what we saw this year, at the talent level on that team last year was 10 times what we had this year, it they were so much better and so many aspects of the game. And that's why like when you look at this season is like I always look at it with a grain of salt. Now after it's all done a wrapped up and you can look at it as an overall, like actual season. That team that we had was nowhere near. We talked ourselves into like, Oh, they could be a championship contender at the beginning of the season. We no goddamn way. You look at the way that team was constructed from top to bottom. They were nowhere near as talented as they were the year before. Right. And I know you go back and run the tapes. I know I was ready to have the parade. But

Joe Malkin: 23:12

we all were

Rob Kelly: 23:13

when you actually look at that team. It wasn't anywhere near what we expected a Boston Celtics tout level to be. We had Jayson Tatum Jaylen brown and kemba who was shelved himself and then a bunch of unknowns, literally nine on nodes. year before we had Gordon Hayward unknown. Yeah, but he's still Gordon Hayward?

Michael Marcangelo: 23:30

No, he's pretty no Brown. We

Rob Kelly: 23:31

have Jayson Tatum. We have. I can't even think of the rest of the team. kemba Walker kemba. We have Daniel ty sasheer, Daniel Tice, who, I don't even remember. But anyway,

Joe Malkin: 23:44

I know you said that. Shut up.

Rob Kelly: 23:47

God, the first one Craig thought of, but anyways. But like, it's just it was a different level. And I think this year coming up, Brad is going to make a lot of moves to chef coming here. And we're gonna see a different talent level on the court. I just hope he hires the right person and culture. Fair point. In fact,

Michael Marcangelo: 24:12

can we just talk about I know, Joe was just telling me he was going to go to this but I just want to see but I want to be the person to elicit this reaction from Bobby. Jayson Tatum is not an all NBA player.

Rob Kelly: 24:23

Oh my god, don't do that.

Joe Malkin: 24:25

But But Alright, so let's good thank you for the segue. Mike. You also the the NBA. Released it's all NBA teams. today. June 15. Today, like you guys know what day it is. They released their all NBA teams on June 15. It's Tuesday. It's a great day, Tuesday all day. And here are here is your 2020 2021 all NBA first team. Receiving the most first place votes with 101st place votes is Milwaukee's giannis antetokounmpo Cobo 500 total points he had no second team votes no 13 votes. NIKOLA JOKIC from Denver Steph Curry Golden State LUKA DONCIC Dallas kawhi Leonard la the Clippers that is that's your first team. Your second team, Damian Lillard, Joelle and bead Chris Paul, Julius Randle and LeBron James. Your third team is Rudy go bear Jimmy Butler Paul. Paul George Bradley Beal, Kyrie Irving, tell me who He replaces on there. Jason Oh, hang on. Well, let me let me say that. So Jayson Tatum is listed as the next point getter, which actually doesn't make sense here, guys, which I've just noticed. I don't know if you noticed this, but he actually has, he's listed as a forward so fine, but he has more he had more total points than Kyrie

Michael Marcangelo: 25:52

He replaces Paul George dude. He called Jordan and Jimmy Butler.

Joe Malkin: 25:56

See, but here's here's the thing where we say replaces these are all voted on.

Michael Marcangelo: 26:03

You ever you asked the question like, who on there does he replace?

Joe Malkin: 26:06

Sure. So these are all voted on by by players and media and everything else? So why did you replace Paul George?

Michael Marcangelo: 26:14

Because he's a better player. Well, okay, so He replaces Paul George, because he's a better player. He's on the up. Paul. George is on there because he's the name. But in reality, if you want my total honest opinion of this list, it's absolute trash. Garbage,

Joe Malkin: 26:30

Kevin Durant's not on it. And Kevin Duran is listed in that same same level as Jayson Tatum. Right? He received one first place vote for second place votes and 6/3 place votes.

Michael Marcangelo: 26:42

You cannot have an all NBA team. He missed 23 games, Mike. That doesn't matter. He missed 23 games. I

Joe Malkin: 26:48

mean, we had conversations when when Kyrie was here, and while he was with other teams, that he missed half the season, and still made the all star game. So it does matter you have to play in order to get the votes to be put on these teams.

Rob Kelly: 27:04

Yeah, but so Okay, so then maybe that's the only rationale that can hold against Jayson Tatum is this COVID doubt and that's why he missed games. But literally, like, I know, this isn't about Tatum right now. But this is what I need to go off about. Because, listen, this dude literally harried this team the entire season. Right? Since he came back from COVID. He had two weeks where he was bad. The last three months of this season or two months, he scored 50 points four fucking times. Four times he's scored 60 points twice, or no. Now he's got 50 points three times 60 points was my bad I was at the 60 point game felt like twice. But so the level of this dude went to to end this season. You're telling me you're gonna put Jimmy Butler ahead of him on this list. Get out of here, man, Paul George. Like it just the levels of play.

Joe Malkin: 27:58

He went to superstardom levels. If we were if we were a podcast out of Milwaukee, Wisconsin. And we were looking at this Celtics team from the outside in. And we saw this list. Would you say that Jayson Tatum belongs on these days? Yeah. Take it take yourself out of being a Boston take off the green lenses. And do you think Jayson Tatum belongs on one of these things?

Michael Marcangelo: 28:24

There were there were how many games that they played this year? It wasn't it wasn't 82. It was what? 72? Okay, so 72 games? Yes. So Jayson Tatum was one of the most impactful players in the league in the games that he played. And he played more than half of more than three quarters of the entire schedule. So yes, I would have I would have them on that list. The same thing I would say to your point about about dread. Yeah, he missed 23 games. Yeah, I get it. But in the 35 games that he started, he averaged 27 points, seven rebounds, six assists. You, you're just you're just a top 10 player in the league at that point in time. And I get it. He didn't play the full full season, he missed 23 games. I'm not saying that he that he only started 10. Those stats that I just read off to you are not a 10 game sample size. It's an overwhelming majority of the season. So in that instance, yeah, I believe that players like that. But the players that like that should be on that list. And when it's not. And when they're not in the list. It's it kind of negates it. And, and the last thing that I'll say is Jayson Tatum, because he wasn't, he wasn't named to an all NBA team. He missed, he does not get the $32 million bump in his rookie contract extension. So not only does he lose out on the money, but he should he didn't deserve that. Because in a season where it was defined by overcoming the odds and COVID and coming back, you know, to suit and making sure that we all had the pleasure of watching the games, he was there. And in the games that he showed up. He was one of if not the best player on the court. At most times.

Joe Malkin: 30:06

When you when you put in a clause in your contract to make more money as it's voted on, by as you don't really have the ultimate control over it. I think that's silly.

Michael Marcangelo: 30:21

What's super confident. It's just it's just

Joe Malkin: 30:24

Just fine, but but we're also looking, we're also looking at forwards. A ton of Columbo. Leonard Randall, James Butler. George, do I agree with you that he should have? If he was on the third team? I'd say fine. I don't think he necessarily belonged higher than that. Yeah. But I also don't think LeBron James, LeBron James is again, the one that was voted on because of the name.

Rob Kelly: 30:50

He missed. He missed 21 games. Were Bron James Sheamus 21 games due to the high ankle sprain and makes the team and you're gonna leave KD and Tatum off it. It's just right. It's all because of the name and the votes. It's a popularity contest.

Joe Malkin: 31:05

Well, the NBA is always a popularity contest. And this league has always been that and we all know it. We all see it. I don't necessarily agree with you guys that Tatum was robbed. I think he deserves to be on the third team. Maybe? Yeah, I don't think he was robbed. I mean, I think it is what it is, I think the you know, when when Bobby says, Well, he did this, and he scored 50 games in this many games in a row. And it's like, well, man, that's because they had to lean on. Like he was the literal crutch of the Boston Celtics because they had nothing else at that point because of injuries because of but lack of buy in because of whatever the reason less. So I just think that the Celtics were more of a I don't want to call them a dumpster fire.

Rob Kelly: 31:56

knows, right. Yeah.

Joe Malkin: 31:59

Yeah. And we just didn't we just didn't know how much of a dumpster fire it was. And I think that that's another.

Michael Marcangelo: 32:07

I mean, I'm not an I'm not an NBA savant. Right. Those two are not in attendance tonight. But what I will say is, I don't have a problem with the first and second team in reality, I don't have a problem with those. Third team though, if you can't find a reason to put in a Jason Tatum or a Kevin Durant or even like a James Harden. And on that list, there's an issue because those three are the like the cream of the crop. And they are better than the Jimmy Butler, Apollo, George. And yeah, I think I think those two are the biggest. The two biggest considerations for me, Bradley Bradley Beal deserves to be there.

Rob Kelly: 32:51

I think I think I think the way I see it, what upsets me the most is when you think about this NBA season and the storylines and what we talked about and what you remember, what I'm gonna remember is Kevin Durant coming back from that damn Achilles injury, like like an absolute champion, and Jayson Tatum elevating to a completely different level. You don't I'm not gonna remember Paul, George, being Paul George and choking in big moments, and having stats, that that yes, he was great. But he wasn't something he wasn't something to remember was just what you expect and what you see from Paul George. And then when it comes to Jimmy Butler's like, Jimmy Butler had a terrible start to the season, he was not good to start the season, he had a stretch about 2020 games that the heat were terrible, he was terrible, they got hurt. And it really and it wasn't until he got healthy. And until the rest of the team started to gel a little bit that we actually shot the Jimmy Butler. Remember, Jayson Tatum and KD to me just deserve that spot because of what they went through the season. And because of how much they elevated their games past what we thought we were gonna say.

Joe Malkin: 34:02

So I was I was almost about to say, Chris Paul didn't make that but he did. I'm looking at the other

Rob Kelly: 34:08

that would have been, that would have been just that would have been highway. Yeah.

Joe Malkin: 34:13

So we're talking about these other ones.

Michael Marcangelo: 34:17

Before you go. I don't mean to step on you. But we have a rare appearance on this show. And in this segment, I believe someone Craig just asked for us to go to him next. So Craig, do you have something to say about this? Yeah, I just want to clear up the $32 million thing with Tatum just wanted to share my Mike's on it, it is Yay. If Taylor made the NBA All Star team he would have increased at all of his rookie extension with the Celtics by $32 million, increasing the value of the five year deal from 163 million to 195 point 6 million. This is due to the NBA rules rule which allows teams to play to pay a player 30% of the salary cap instead of 25% of the rookie extension. When a player meets one of these following criterias. They enter the NBA All Star team named to the NBA, named to the all NBA team, most recent, or in most recent, or in two of the past three seasons, named Defensive Player of the Year and the most recent season, or named MVP, MVP, and then the last three seasons so that's, that's where that is.

Rob Kelly: 35:18

So something that's in every NBA contract, every every contract, right? Yeah,

Joe Malkin: 35:22

okay, fair enough.

Michael Marcangelo: 35:30

I mean correct sometimes you just come in with absolute fucking fire dude. Oh, yeah.

Joe Malkin: 35:36

Oh yeah, somebody from the EP, nothing but he. Well speaking of the heat, we're gonna talk about the Brooklyn Nets next, actually. Yeah, let's talk about the Brooklyn blocks because this has been a story that now of course of the Boston Celtics are out of the playoffs, the focus of many Boston Celtics fans has now put their focus on Brooklyn, New York, where the New York net of the New York has the Brooklyn Nets are I want to call them the New Jersey Nets but they're in Brooklyn Nets stuff in New York. The Brooklyn Nets are tied with the Milwaukee box in their best of seven series going into game five, which is on Tuesday, June 15. So we'll know when this comes out. One team will have a three to two lead over the other end game for the Milwaukee Bucks effectively blew out the nuts. I mean, they weren't going away, Kyrie Irving gets hurt in the second quarter Yana scores 34 in this series has been very back and forth. It's kind of been the the Kevin Durant Jonas and tokunbo Kris Middleton series. We've seen James Harden out with an Achilles injury. I'm sorry hamstring injury, then we saw Kyrie go down with the ankle the other night. Another big conversation that we've been having among us is a conversation that I think again a lot of Celtics fans are having is will Milwaukee pull this series out now that there's effectively two guys on the shelf James Harden is a apparently gonna play or is apparently playing in game five. Which fine, he is still a little busted. It sounds like they're making him play because they need someone other than Kevin Durant. The question here is, do you want to see the Nets lose? And do you think that they will lose this series to Milwaukee?

Michael Marcangelo: 37:44

Yes, of course as a Boston Celtics fan I want to see them that says I want to see Kyrie Eat eat just eat absolute garbage right for stomping on lucky all that I don't wish I don't wish him injury. I think some of us have talked about that before is it karma might be I but I didn't wish for it. But the two things that I'm going to say that will maybe provide some context into how the Milwaukee Bucks can stay in the series, right. So just allow me a couple of couple of seconds here. These are the two reasons why I think that Milwaukee could still be in this. Kris Middleton got off to a really terrible start in the series averaging like 15 points a game on 30% shooting, including 23% from the from three point range in the first two games. However, over the past two games, Middleton has averaged 27 points on 48% shooting, including 43% from three points while playing 43 minutes a game. So he's heating up. Ray, you know, rayshawn said before this season started with Middleton's on the team on the floor. And he's given you 25 to 30 a game, then you got a problem, right? Because yet you have you have Yana San Middleton that are going to account for about 60 points. The second thing I'm going to say is that Milwaukee shot 34% in their game for when that's still five points below their their their season average, they averaged about 39% shooting from the field this year. So if they get if they get exponentially better, and oh, by the way, in game for 43 of their 47 three point attempts, they were wide open. So if they just get better at hitting those shots, and the Nets who are terrible at defense, continue playing their game. I think Brooklyn has a problem. No disclaimer, this this tape only holds up if harden is a one legged harden. And if Kyrie is a one legged carrier, that that's not playing.

Rob Kelly: 39:50

To add on to what you just said, Why Milwaukee does have a chance here is because so you add in the two injuries combined with the fact that Milwaukee has actually found for the first time in the history of the NBA since Kevin Duran has entered the NBA. A Kevin Durant STOPPER AND PJ Tucker was in this dude has been an absolute shadow Joe, you said earlier in the sack like they know each other. So maybe that's why but since PJ Tucker has started covering the rent whenever he's on the floor, Grant is 2453 from the field which is 37%, which is about I believe 15%. Below Durant's career average from the field, so so to have that kind of impact in such a star player is just astronomical defensive impact. You add that with the fact that the two star other two star players for the nets are out. Now, you've cancelled out all three players from those big three. And that's why Milwaukee does have a chance. I don't know if they can keep it up for the next two games, three games. But they absolutely have a chance

Joe Malkin: 41:00

it becomes easier for them when you don't have to lock down. All three of them. And Yep. Now PJ Tucker has played phenomenal in the display. Real walkie he has been really kind of putting himself on the map, per se. I mean, he's, he's an old school style player. He's a consistent player. But this has been a matchup that mill I mean, Milwaukee couldn't have asked for a better situation. They're like, you guys just said like Mike just said you're sending out a James Harden on one leg. And you may not have Kyrie it doesn't sound like Kyrie is going to come back in this series. So it's really

Rob Kelly: 41:40

going to be already he's not as confirmed.

Joe Malkin: 41:42

Yeah, it's gonna be down to again, and I mentioned it earlier. I mean, this is where the signing of Blake Griffin comes in, because now Blake Griffin has to step up and be the third guy possibly the second depending on what James Harden does, and I said it earlier to you guys, this is a lot about Kevin Durant's legacy, though he added also will show what Steve Nash can do as a head coach and unproven head coach. Right. We just talked about this with the Celtics, the Celtics want to coach with head coaching experience. Well, the Nets have a coach that doesn't have head coaching experience before taking over for the for the almost 100 again, New Jersey Nets for the Brooklyn Nets. And here they are. So show us what you can do because this Milwaukee team. It's really interesting when you actually look at this roster, while there's a lot of really good players there. It is kind of a lot of Misfit Toys as well. You have you have Giannis shore you have Kris Middleton shore, Drew Holliday, yep. Brook Lopez been around for a long time. You have PJ Tucker Pat connington Andover, Massachusetts on Pat Coddington you have Bobby portis, I mean, you have guys that are able to play the game. Well, it's just not pretty to watch. But if Milwaukee can can shut down Duran like Bobby just said, I think it's gonna go seven but I really think Milwaukee can can pull this out and knock and then sell which would be a shock to the NBA.

Rob Kelly: 43:14

It completely agree would be an absolute shock. But at the same time is like I think so two things first, Steve Nash is to me, no matter what happens in this series, he's been a success as an NBA coach. He's been unbelievable this year. Yeah, the way the way he's handled everything with with the stars being out with the Kyrie situation, but just everything, how it's unfolded. I really think Steve Nash has been above and beyond what we could have expected of him. But to go to the box, I think a lot of people are under estimating who this team actually is. Because if you remember last year, it was it was an absolute travesty that this team didn't get to the NBA Finals. So now I do think that they're relishing in this underdog role that they're in with the nets. And also I think that, you know, we talk about Katie's legacy a lot. I think this series is going to show a lot about Janice's legacy too, when we look back on it, because if he can't get past his beat up next team, with with the healthy bucks team, as the constructive was rude, they went out and gosh ruforum they kept on they kept Middleton they gave him the Supe rma and if he still can't get by a beat up nets team, I think this is something we remember for a long time about Giannis

Michael Marcangelo: 44:31

I mean, just don't forget that like Kevin Durant is still one of if not the best player that's still actively playing him in the NBA when he's healthy, right? He just is he is the most prolific scorer he's he's for a man his size to do what he can do on a court it's unbelievable to watch and the nets are five and one this year when when when the two other big three members are out and Katie starts climbing one against Ooh, though. And what I mean, you had six chances you only lose one game. I don't care if you're playing against the Harlem Globetrotters. But it's still like when they never lose my what but what I will say is Durant, I think Durant's legacy is more on the line in this series, then then Jonas's right, because at the end of the day, you could still make the argument that yeah, if the Nets win that Yanis didn't capitalize on the fact The two of the stars were hurt. Sure. But that was after three and a half games.

Joe Malkin: 45:29

Yeah and and and Durant's been around for 13 years, and I've said I said, you guys already like, if he can go out and win the series as the guy for what it's worth I I'm, I'm a nobody in this situation. But he will then have proven to me that he is who everyone expected just this series, not not even an NBA championship, just this series will cement for me his career and his legacy. And completely validate the two rings that he won with golden state, which we've talked about. And you know, okay, he's ringing chasing fine. I mean, he found an opportunity and went and took it. He can cement his legacy in this series. He cannot. To me, he cannot ruin his legacy in this series. Well,

Michael Marcangelo: 46:21

but what is it? Okay, so to that point, right, what is his legacy to you right now?

Joe Malkin: 46:26

I'm a guy that is one of the best players in the NBA, but cannot be the guy on the team,

Michael Marcangelo: 46:36

yet. Sure. Okay. So losing in this series won't won't hurt that it but it will prove it right, it'll go one step further to proving it. Right now. I think the consensus out there is that he can't like he's never been the guy on a team. He's been a guy on the team, right? That now is his chance to do something about it. And if you get past the bucks, and you go and you go to the Eastern Conference Finals, and if you can get if he's able to get the Brooklyn Nets into the NBA Finals with with a big three that is consistently injured, and in these in these playoffs are hurt for evil, whatever you want to say, then yeah, all that criticism goes away, because I truly believe and again, I'm not the I'm not, I'm not the basketball savant. This is the best version of Katie that we've seen. And this is the first time in a situation that we've seen that this is the team that he is on it, he is the leader of he is the glue that holds everything together for which everything that everything good that happens is because of him. Everything bad that happens is in spite of him. Right. So now it's time to prove it.

Rob Kelly: 47:40

Yeah, I couldn't agree more with that man, especially with how, like you said, those two out of the Big Three going down. And now all of a sudden, he's leading this team by himself. And not to mention the rest of the team. This was constructed to be a big three. And when you construct it to be a big three, the rest of the world players usually suffer. The box are constructed to be a full basketball team, you know what I mean? Like they could lose one or two guys that it wouldn't affect the team as much as it affects. So that's when it comes to the rant. If he actually leads the rest of this squad to the NBA Finals, it'll put him up on a different pedestal, that that literally is the LeBron the MJ that level, if he can actually leave this nest team with these 200 superstars to an NBA Finals. I mean, you look at what they're going against right now, if they can do that without those two guys, that's a whole different thing altogether.

Joe Malkin: 48:36

If the Whichever team wins that series, they'll have to play the 70 sixers of the Atlanta Hawks and I don't think I've ever been as into all except last year when we first started the podcast but I might be more into the the NBA Playoffs this year that may or may not have something to do with DraftKings not a sponsor. But watching the series and watching these teams play that Utah series with la with the Clippers has been outstanding. The 70 sixers Hawk series has been the least exciting of the four series. But now it's the third exciting because the always exciting Phoenix Suns have taken down and done logins. But guys, here's here's one of the final questions I want to pose to you. Let's say Milwaukee pulls the series out against the nets. Atlanta beats up on Philadelphia, Utah wins against LA, your final four teams in the NBA conference finals are the Phoenix Suns in the Utah Jazz and the Atlanta Hawks and the Milwaukee Bucks. What is that? What does that say about the state of the NBA good or bad? I'm not saying it's it's one way or the other. And that Will it hurt the TV ratings going forward?

Michael Marcangelo: 49:55

I think it is great for the league. But it's terrible for ratings. Right? In the short term. I think right now, the goal is for you to believe as a fan that every that every franchise has a chance to win. And the problem with that is though is that when it happens, do not expecting it. If all if all four of those things happen at the same time. Like that. How is there? How is there interest? Right? I think that you'll be finding fans ratings have of people that are watching to see that team that just eliminated their team lose? Fine. Sure I get it, I think but I do think it's good in the lead, because you do want to have a situation where you think like, oh, Phoenix is on the rise. Right? That's great. And then you have huge, great nuggets, awesome. All the players that not the my hand, not not the Miami Heat, not the Boston Celtics, not the Lakers. At the Spurs over the last 20 years, you can have a situation where you finally can say, you know what, the Bucs are just like this, this one and done team, they've actually, they might actually have some championship DNA in them. They might make it and and you know, Yanis, if you honest, gets a ring, in this season, having to go through that big three, even if you know they're not, they're not fully healthy. I think that he's the I think he's the next superstar of this league. I think he can you can actually, if you're the NBA, you can hit your wagons to him.

Rob Kelly: 51:26

I think they have a couple routes to do that, honestly. Because if you look at the teams that are left, if there's multiple guys that need that rank to become that next level of superstar status, we have Devin Booker, we have Joe and Joe and bead, Janice, all these guys that they get that ring. There now they're now estrogen to NBA history superstars who lead their team to a ring. So I think the NBA has a lot of growth potential based off those four teams that you just mentioned. I also think that they have a lot of potential to be absolutely screwed, based off those for short term. Yes. Short term, right. Especially because NBA ratings are already down. Yeah, there's already a possibility of a Phoenix Suns Atlanta Hawks finals. And I think to me, that's just an absolute disaster for the NBA. Like, if you ask them to begin the season, who were the two teams that camp in the NBA Finals for NBA revenue? It'd be the Atlanta Hawks first, but

Michael Marcangelo: 52:21

I mean, it would turn out that that those games that you would watch would probably be the best games to what if they were so

Rob Kelly: 52:26

fun, those two games?

Michael Marcangelo: 52:28

And it'd be like, Oh, well, you know, those games are great. But if nobody watching that they actually happen. Yes. Yeah, I promise they didn't really. And we won't ban those in a future show, I promise. But I think, to see a team like the Phoenix Suns who were undefeated in the bubble last year, but still missed out on the playoffs, make the NBA Finals and maybe win it with Chris Paul, right? That entire narrative, man, that's a story. The guy couldn't be the guy on the team to win it. But he happened to be next to the guy. And after all these years, that's something my heartache joining that you asked a question that we've expanded upon I do I do really apologize. My pick my hope i true. We hope that the Los Angeles Clippers win the NBA championship, the year after doggers left with a team with a team that was a team that he constructed but could not lead to glory. That for me, that was again, that was for you. That would validate every conversation moving forward with with rayshawn about doc.

Rob Kelly: 53:32

Okay, so boom, before we dig into that, all right, so I really so to expound further on what you said earlier, Joe. The I really do think the ultimate goal though, for the NBA is to end up with two teams in the NBA Finals that are healthy and play good basketball because the storyline so far this entire season, right the entire season has been all these superstar injuries it's almost every single week it's another person going down with an injury. So So that to me, no matter who's in there. I don't think they care. As long as it's not affected by injury. I think that's the ultimate goal for the NBA when it comes down to it because they want this season to be your success. And they don't ever want it to be looked back upon as that season. That was that was because of injury we already had the bubble season. They don't want to have another one that's that's quoted by is like oh, well that was the year what brown went down and that was the year that Kyrie went down not so that to me, I think is the ultimate goal.

Joe Malkin: 54:32

It is pretty amazing that we have a season where we see Kyrie and James Harden going down we have Russell Westbrook missing the playoffs and but we have a healthy Paul George and a healthy Chris Paul, what, what what a year 2020 2021 is it has been a fun season and I think when it comes down to it, I agree with you, Bobby, I don't think it's gonna matter which two teams make it as long as it's a good series, and it will be good for the NBA in the long run. And Mike, I thought you were going to go a different route with that because I didn't even think of the Doc Rivers narrative for you that fits your narrative. Yes, that fits your narrative perfectly. But as a as a, again as a Celtics fan to see not only the Brian James for the Los Angeles Lakers get bounced and then the team that plays in the same building as them win the championship. To me that adds a little bit more to your storyline is much better than mine personal my personal but your but yours is much better because it is it is kind of a Boston Celtics thing as well as between you and Ray. You guys can talk about it at your wedding. But it for I just had to throw that in there. It would it wouldn't be great, but I mean Philadelphia. Philadelphia is still in it. So but it it would be like shades of of Tony Dungy and

Rob Kelly: 56:11

Jon Gruden Jon Gruden

Joe Malkin: 56:14

So, well this has been a band of superstars here tonight though we we talked basketball without our two big basketball guys, but that's okay. So we're going to finish off this episode of missing the point right there for Mike Mark Angelo the real BK Bob Kelly. As always our executive producer Craig D'Alessandro. I am Joe Malkin. Thank you for joining us. I'm missing the point. I'll talk to you next time.