Week 7 NFL Power Rankings

Dave Clarke: 0:06

Welcome to missing the point I am TK sisal Dave Clarke here once again to take you through really case by Power Rankings. Their wacky is ever not his fault. It's been a wacky season. It's been some crazy wins crazy losses and we're going to walk you through the top 10 best teams in the NFL which is different than the top 10 best teams last last week and different than investing in week four. So really the case here to defend himself, which is always nice for him. And of course we have the return the triumphant return of Mike Mark Angelo haven't had him on a power Ranking Show in quite some time. So happy to happy to have you here. Mike. Please drop rockin his red, white and blue patriots. Would you call that a T shirt is a long sleeve t shirt.

Michael Marcangelo: 0:46

It's like a sweater. It's like a sweater. It's thermal. Yeah, it's like a borderline.

Rob Kelly: 0:51

It's like a baseball thermal.

Michael Marcangelo: 0:52

Yeah, no. I just want to sweat shirt.

Dave Clarke: 0:54

I want to paint it. Yeah. Oh, is that the it's the kangaroo pocket?

Michael Marcangelo: 0:58

The thing that I think so. And there's no hood?

Dave Clarke: 1:01

Well, that's a hoodie. And to me Yeah. Anyway, I just wanted to paint a little word picture to to the to the listeners not watching here on the YouTube and I promise we are all wearing clothes. But we're here to talk about football and in the kind of crazy NFL season that we've had. So let's just jump right into it. Number 10 on Bobby's Power Rankings are the New England Patriots. Not something I think I thought I was gonna hear myself say coming into this season, not something I thought I was gonna hear myself say last week to be quite frank with with everybody but I don't disagree with them being on there. I don't, I wouldn't put my my non existent child's college education on them staying in the top 10. But I guess tell me why they crack the top 10 Bobby, we'll start with you.

Rob Kelly: 1:47

It really comes down to the quality of football that we've seen through the first six weeks and the poor coaching that we've seen through the first six weeks. And the really the poor quarterback play that we've seen through the first six weeks from most of the league. And the Patriots stand out to me it's a one of the better coach teams in the league besides that left tackle when he's garbage and the quarterback, man. I know you guys probably remember during the draft, I was high on Bally's every coming into the season, I didn't actually think he'd start. I never thought that would happen. But I just enjoy watching this team play football right now. The offense is funner than it was the front seven is pretty legit. That could use some linebacking help. But compared to the teams below them on the list, man, it's just when you watch them, you know what you're getting. It's a consistent style of football, which is something that you don't see in the NFL. So that's why they cracked the top 10 It's mainly because I love Bailey Zappe Because it zapper ethic

Dave Clarke: 2:46

as ever, you know, I deplore the lack of strength of schedule factored into these Top 10 Top 10 Power Rankings I think playing the Cleveland Browns and the Detroit Lions to me does not admit a great teammate, but I do agree with you that zappy has been playing really well. Mike, let me ask you the question that I think is probably the most talked about question in New England right now. Who is in your mind? If everyone's healthy, the number one QB in New England?

Michael Marcangelo: 3:16

I mean, I think that it has to be Mac Jones. So I think what we're seeing now is what we saw from the cowboys and kellen moore right what once once Dak went down, it looks like they called a better game. It looks like they're made this offense easier, or in more digestible for Bailey Zappe. I thought that his performance in Cleveland was was good, but it's against Cleveland. And I was said I'm basically wearing a Patriots fucking billboard right now and I'm here to tell you that I don't think they belong on the top 10 I mean, I mean, I bet thank you for putting them there. But I just think I just think it's a matter I appreciate

Dave Clarke: 3:58

it. But

Rob Kelly: 3:58

yeah, if you if but if you look at the teams that they're ahead of right now, right so it's just a matter of like a principle of not having teams that play that bad of football right now on this list because listen, the Bucs definitely could be on this list. The Packers definitely could be on this list. The Ravens could be on the list the Rams the dolphins, like all these teams, but week in and week out. Something weird is going on in all those cities across America. I don't know what it is. Well, we know what it is on Miami. But for the rest of them it's just a it's the Rams offense is horrible. They have no running game and Cam Akers and his coach are having a drama fit every week. You have the Ravens who just can't hold on to a fourth quarter lead for the life of them. Obviously the Buccaneers Tom Brady's going into weddings on Friday night getting hammered and playing like crap on Sunday the Packers. Those troubles are very documented Aaron Rodgers offense, the Niners just loss of the Falcons. It's just like you go down this list And there's so many glaring weaknesses or like glaring red flags for all these teams. And one green flag,

Dave Clarke: 5:09

the Patriots made the top 10 Because everybody else sucks. Yeah,

Rob Kelly: 5:13

that's that's a factual statement. Yes,

Michael Marcangelo: 5:15

I would just advocate that. So do they. And it's just it's again, it's alliances, it's the browns. I don't know what's going to happen against against the bears will also like the only two arguments that would make about them. return would be I would advocate for either the Bengals or the Titans Bengals because they win the Superbowl last year, so they should get that. And then

Rob Kelly: 5:35

Bengal tiger was number nine.

Michael Marcangelo: 5:37

Or they are okay, perfect. You already solved that. And then the titles are what 3323. And they have a net negative 23 point differential. And they still want three in a row. So if there's something to be said about that their offense is not great. And they're still winning games. But yeah, I mean, great. They were

Rob Kelly: 5:57

the other top competitor. I when I first put the list out there originally were the number 10 team. And I sat there and thought about it for a minute and it's just I trust zappy and Mac Jones more or less trust Ryan Tannehill at this point, so that's why they go

Dave Clarke: 6:12

you know, Bill Belichick like you said, I mean, the coaching around the league has been, for the most part pretty atrocious. It's pretty terrible cause like, like the idea of a team like the Las Vegas Raiders taking them out and taking a gamble on Josh McDaniels that Josh McDowell is just like finding a way to lose, you know, like, that's just like, seems to be his MO like, I'm just gonna find a way to like, let that like I remember when they played the chiefs and he read this guy in his head so hard and it's like, I you know, I don't know who Josh McDaniels is like, is he this offensive guru? Or is he just like all hype, you know? And then you watch him coach, the Denver Broncos back in the day make weird trades, like advocate for weird trades and like, build a weird Tebow? Yeah. And like, build a really weird team. And it's like, very strange. And then you watch him in Vegas going for it in situations where you shouldn't be going for it and doing all this weird stuff. And he's the perfect example I think of, I don't know, probably 23 Bad coaching jobs so far across the league. And I think you're right about it. Like I think the Eagles look really well coached. The Patriots are pretty well coached. For obvious reasons. I think. You know, I still think the Chiefs look really well coached. I don't even think it sums up with the bills, you know, like, as much as they won that game. And it was, it was a big win for them. It something's up with them. So I just think like, across the league, like game plans really aren't being implemented. And I do genuinely see your point as far as them playing the bears on Monday, like, talk about finding a way to lose man, the bears, like genuinely could be every every week. For one put, it's like something happens where and it's like, you know, it's it's tough, right? Because like Justin feels like year two, you want to see him like make plays to win games. The ball is like never in his hands to win the win the game and then when it is his guys, let them down, you know, as a play. To be fair, he

Rob Kelly: 8:01

made the play. Yeah. And,

Dave Clarke: 8:03

and, you know, I mean, obviously, if Darnell Mooney is your best wide receiver, you might be in a little bit of trouble. Weapons wise, he's not a bad receiver. And he made a great catch this season like a great one hander, it's going to be on the highlight reel for the season. But come on, you know, with some weapons on the offense. I get it to look we're rebuilding, we're in a full rebuild. Do I think we'd be able to beat the Patriots on Monday? Who fucking knows what could happen in this league? You know what I mean? I think we got a little curse by the fact that we were on Thursday night and there's something to be said for how turgid Thursday nights been for the most part this season. And like, it's Hawaii, it's laughably bad. And I think it was just like anybody playing on Thursday just curse to have a bad game. But yeah, I mean, I don't know if they're gonna be in the in the top 10 Next week, but here they are. Now moving on to the Bengals. You know, they're defending AFC Champions, right? They have studs all over the field. They have Jamar Chase, who finally looked like himself this week, Joe burrow finally looked like himself this week kind of showed up like a man on the mission. You know, going back to Louisiana showing up in the game Warren Jamar Chase LSU, Jersey, signs in the crowd. Thanks for coming, Joe. But like this is our house bah bah, like he needed to go win that game. And I think what I will say for the for the Bengals and I'll start with you on this one, like what I will say for the Bengals this season is they've put themselves in a position where their season seems to be on the line every week. So they're kind of like, we got to go win this game. You know, every game is a final game. For them. Every game is a championship game every week. And they seem to sort of be rising to the occasion, despite not quite looking as good as they did on that run. Would you agree with that? And do you think that the Bengals are going to stay in this top 10 for the foreseeable I

Michael Marcangelo: 9:41

just think that it's too fine of a line to have to walk but I think we've seen it in the last couple of years Joe burrow like the tiger king, he does thrive when his backs against the wall. But there's only so many times you can put yourself in that position and it doesn't it doesn't eventually bite you in the ass. I think what's so surprising to me is that he still was one of the top Five most sacked quarterbacks in the league this year and all they did was invest in the offensive line in the offseason. And it feels like it still hasn't solved that problem. But I mean, 300 yards, three touchdowns and two of those to Jamar Chase. That is that team is a wagon. If they keep them upright I, I think they're, they're going to be okay. But to answer your question, a very long winded format.

Unknown: 10:19

That's what we do. Yeah, I

Michael Marcangelo: 10:21

think I think you're gonna see like three or four more times this year, at least where it looks like they're out. And there's there's somehow gonna win that game. Yeah,

Dave Clarke: 10:29

Bobby, they played your precious saints and they seem to get the job done. I know, they're like this. I know, the saints are injury riddled, you know, and I know that you believe in them in a full strength way. And not necessarily in a I mean, their injury list is actually bananas. If you look at it, it reads like a fucking novel. So, you know, fair enough. I personally wouldn't back them regardless. But you know, do you Were you impressed? I guess my question is, Were you impressed with the with the bangles beating? I guess you're impressed enough to put them at night in the Power Rankings, beating kind of a weekend saints team? What is it that stood out to you that made it look like even though this was a week saints team, they played who was in front of them, they got the job done? What was it this set out?

Rob Kelly: 11:07

Well, this is kind of who the Bengals have been for the last two years, you know, for most of last year. They weren't great. You know what I mean? They were right around 500 For most of the season, then they made they had games where they looked amazing. And they had games where they looked absolutely awful. This is just who they were. And now when they're back throw up against the wall, and they needed a win. They got it. And that's that's literally they were all C's so that's really what pushed them into that top 10 Because I just see them being that team when they need to when they need to be you know if the Bengals can play every game in the goddamn Superdome. That'd be 70 ended up did you see what what his stats are in the Superdome? It's like in two games. He has like 785 yards and six touchdowns. And Jamar Chase has like stuff for reception touchdowns and like 300 yards

Dave Clarke: 12:02

it's crazy I guess at the same time I'm not fully I you know I do definitely agree with you guys that their identity is this and they put themselves in these positions and sort of you know get back up out of the ditch but I'm not convinced because like I watched the majority of that game the Bengals saints game and it's like to me it's not holy shit. Jamar chases back it's why does he have one guy to beat? You know, I mean we talked about that the poor in coaching it's like that highlight reel touchdown that he had where he danced into the endzone it's like he had one dude the beat you know like you had no you have you had no guy in the zone deep You had you weren't doubling him like he just had to score one dude at Joe burrow had to find them and like if you leave that like if you leave that dude with one guy it doesn't really usually matter who that one guy is within few notable exceptions. It was back coverage like it was blown coverage essentially on a stud wide receiver and like I just I'm just not convinced you know I think that the Bengals come up. Maybe they go on a little run but if they come up against any team that's like serious like a Philadelphia Eagles built to beat them right now like absolutely just formatted to beat them like the way that they win football games. So I don't know not convinced. But we'll see. We'll watch the space with the Bengals. But

Rob Kelly: 13:15

one more. The next five games for them are the Falcons which they're sneaky right now. Brown. Okay. I

Dave Clarke: 13:21

got a lot of school players.

Rob Kelly: 13:24

Yeah, the browns, Panthers, Steelers Titans and then they get the chiefs. So that's where we'll see the test for them. But they they should come out of there. What six and four as though

Dave Clarke: 13:36

because they're the Bengals they go under 500 on that run till they get to the cheese and they beat the cheese. That's something weird might happen like that. So we'll see. All right, moving on from the Cincinnati Bengals looking forward to talking about some more as the as the season goes on, because they are a weird group of guys. But I still do I still do like Joe Burrell and maintain that. That's what everybody thought. What's name Baker Mayfield is going to be and he's awesome. And I like that we have him in the league. Moving on to number eight the chargers, glad to see him in the top 10. I do still rate them. Obviously they don't look as good as I thought they were going to look, I don't think they look as good as anyone thought that they were going to look unless you were saying they were going to look stunted, and weirdly average on the offensive side of the ball. Keenan Allen being out for this whole season so far, basically, not withstanding. Herbert was a guy who was matching Patrick mahomes on yards per throw the last two seasons that he doesn't look like himself. I don't know if it's the rib thing. I don't know if it's how the offense is is being run. He looks confused out there. He doesn't look like he's he knows the plays he's supposed to be running and quite frankly, neither did Denver made to me that whole game just made it seem like they turned off the fucking microphones the headsets in communication with each other because it just looked like the players on both sides of the ball. Were just confused what their coaches were trying to tell him it was a turgid affair as a as a word I want to use. But yeah, a lot of these primetime games have been Tufty.

Rob Kelly: 14:57

I really like real because they're all there. All Broncos games,

Dave Clarke: 15:01

which is wild, right? And then like I was like, please just don't like don't put the bears in primetime. And it's like Thursday night, Monday night, Sunday night. I'm like, okay, cool. Awesome. Let's watch Justin fields get sacked but like let's millions of us watch it. But you know, whatever. Moving on with the chargers, I do think their defense looked like I thought their defense was going to look offseason in that game. I think their defense finally clicked. I think they definitely need to get it figured out on the offensive side of the ball. But with the Chargers be an eight I guess same question to you, Mike. How solid you think they're placing this top 10 is what do you think's going on with Herbert? Do you think it's his weapons being hurt? Do you think it's him being hurt? Do you think it's the coaching or a combination of all of those things? Or something I didn't mention?

Michael Marcangelo: 15:45

Yeah, it's probably gonna be a combination of all those things. I think it's easy to look as good as he looked. The last couple years when you have your number one target that is healthy. Keenan Allen, but I think he's making Josh Palmer again, notable names that you you actually want him now as a wide receiver. I also think this if they rely solely on Herbert that I don't think they can go that far yet. I think they do need to rely on the running game and and run Eckler into the ground. Awesome. In also keep using him the passing game.

Dave Clarke: 16:19

He's had a great season, to be honest with you. Yeah, of course.

Michael Marcangelo: 16:21

Yeah. Well, he's he was there. They're there. They're most leading Catcher in the game and catches 47 years. I mean, so he's, he's a dual threat. What I will say is I think that Denver is terrible. I think that this Russell is cooked. I think this is more of who wanted to lose this game. More than who wanted to win. But the thing their defense should be better than, than it has been so far. And I think that it is interesting that you saw JC Jackson get benched and the second half like that he's not he's not a shutdown corner. He's not a number one. So let's see what they do around that. But it's a tough division. Like they could be a really good team. DK and they could still finish like 10 Seven. Yeah.

Dave Clarke: 17:07

I feel like there was moments from Ross last night, you know, where he sort of looks like himself. First. Quarter, first quarter. First quarter is pretty good. Yeah, yeah, this offensive line completely just like stop trying after a while, which to me, the easy way that kind of lazy way maybe to read into that as like, he's a fucking weirdo. He hasn't been able to get galvanizes team around him from a leadership standpoint. Everybody knows that. He's kind of a weird robot. And his offensive line aren't like motivated to make him not die. But I mean, or maybe they just aren't great. Or maybe he's just not releasing the ball quick enough which was he was definitely guilty of a couple of times last night decision making towards from from the first quarter the fourth quarter looks like two different brains inhabiting the same body like the decision making was atrocious in the fourth quarter. Like I just I honestly couldn't believe it. You look like fucking Rex Grossman out there. And I just think and yeah, the puck was breaking down and stuff, but it's like, come on. That's Russell Wilson. It's what he does. Like that's him fucking doing a little skip to my Lou and cop pocket breaks down is when he's at his most dangerous so yes, in the first quarter. He looks like that. And for a quarter. He really didn't. So where they bagging them up for sure. But Jesus Christ, man, like make some better choices.

Michael Marcangelo: 18:14

Decay. He went 10 to 10 in the first quarter and then three of 18 in the second half of overtime. Yeah, that's terrible. That's That's fucking terrible. That's really

Dave Clarke: 18:23

genuinely the opposite of how you want your quarterback to play. Like Josh Allen had like a tough first half against the chiefs. They made some adjustments and then he like down the stretch. He is efficiency goes way up. And that's really the timeline order that you've paid extra for. I mean, obviously, you wanted to play great the whole game but if you're gonna pick Bobby, what are the charges look like to you? Do they look like a team that they're, I mean, I feel like they're, they're, they're teetering, right? Like, they can either. They're either going to click and key and Alan's gonna come back and he's gonna go on a little streak, that defense is gonna play a little bit more like they did last night across the rest of the season, they're gonna look like the charges, we thought they were gonna look like young, hungry, athletic, fast and winning games, or they're gonna slide and I think we're gonna see it over the next couple games. And I, I fear it slide because what I've seen that coaching staff do and the decisions they've been making, but which way do you see them going?

Rob Kelly: 19:12

Yeah, that's, that's exactly what I was going to point to is, the chargers can can literally go two different ways. And they could become a top five team in the NFL within the next month and a half. Or we could be talking about them, you know, battling it out for second place in that division. I think there is a planet where they contend with the Chiefs for the top spot in that division, but they have to fix things soon. And bread and Sailor needs to stop getting out of the way. Man, he he's another one of these coaches that this season. The decisions that are being made are just not like they've never been made before in the history of football. And it's for a reason. You know, like these, these analytical like, Oh, you're tied at 20 It's worth it to go for the touchdown on fourth down at the end of the fourth quarter when you're tied and can just take the lead and make the other team drive that the length of the field you know what I mean? So it's gonna do the work mind blowing to me that there's been a lot

Dave Clarke: 20:14

of that this year man a lot of lives why are they going for two right now? Like the math doesn't add up? Why are they going for to like a lot of that not just with the charges, I'm talking across the whole NFL like a lot of those moments where you're like, just kicked the fuck an extra point or like, just kick the field goal or just just on it? It's fine. It's it, don't worry about it. I mean, we've been talked about Harbaugh making these decisions. Like there's something been mixed into the in the

Rob Kelly: 20:33

main mission or who's the number one culprit from it here? Yeah. 30%

Michael Marcangelo: 20:37

success rate so that the rest of the NFL is like, you know what? Let's do that.

Dave Clarke: 20:41

Right. What? It's, I feel like someone at some sort of offseason coach's meeting did like a TED talk about advanced analytics when it comes to like certain situations, oh, games, and they taught them all into these like, really weird situations be like, go for it on fourth and three in your half. And it's just like, Wait, what are we doing? The percentages, the percentages and percentage, let's say,

Rob Kelly: 21:05

what is the goddamn football game said what is the game?

Dave Clarke: 21:08

Right? I mean, to me, it's just like, there's a font, there's there actually isn't that fine of a line between being aggressive and being smart. It's like a or b or being dumb, I should say it's like, you're you're not being aggressive right now you're being stupid. Like you're, you're not putting your your team in a position to win the game and also, the way that football works. And the kind of rock paper scissors aspect of it is whenever you decide to do that, you're telling the other side of the ball on your team, that you don't trust them to get their job done. And I think that that, to me is the thing that always stands out from a coaching perspective. Like, if you if you are forced to kick a field goal in a situation to go three points in fourth quarter with less than six minutes to go, right. You're you're given the ball back to the team with ample time to make probably you probably give it back to him two or three times at that point, right, which six minutes to go, depending on how the how your offensive drives go, say you only get 3.6 minutes to go, you kick that field goal, and you turn around to the defense and you say I trust you guys, to keep them to three or less. That's why I just kicked the field goal. You know, if you go for it, you're you don't have to say anything to them, you're sending them the message of like, I really think we needed a touchdown, because I don't think you guys can fucking stop them. And honestly, in a game, that's 1313 that's a stupid way to treat your defense because as much as your offense might have sucked your defenses out into the 13 points. So trust that the game isn't a high scoring game. Trust that that you know, even if it's 2020 like trust, the game isn't a high scoring game trust that your defense can make the stop and encourage them to go out there and do their jobs. I mean, it's it's it's a no brainer demand. And it's you know, it harkens back to the reason why the Patriots are on the

Rob Kelly: 22:38

board. It does. So to bring it back to the charges though, let's just say that, you know, there's a question internally, when your star wide receiver who's hurt tweets at the end of a game? Oh, WTF are we doing? Because they went forward and forth into installing let

Dave Clarke: 22:58

the players eat Twitter. Like nobody gets to have a Twitter

Rob Kelly: 23:02

agreed. But he he sent his deleted the tweet, but it was out there.

Dave Clarke: 23:06

He was not deleting anything. The Internet is a permanent place.

Rob Kelly: 23:09

But like, if that's happening, right? If Canaanite was doing that on Twitter, you better believe that's happening within that locker. Like, that's not the first person that thinks totally, you know, exact so it's just that there definitely is red flags. But Justin Herbert, and Kenai when he's healthy, and Khalil Mack and Joey Bosa like those guys kind of put them into that top 10 Because there's like we said, it's a big pile of shit underneath them so

Michael Marcangelo: 23:37

but just think about what you just said they have all those people on defense to Dave's point. They they still fuck around with it, and they don't trust them. Why spend hundreds of millions of dollars on your defense and to say, You know what, we're gonna grow forward instead of trusting you doesn't make any sense. And that's what keeps it from the playoffs

Dave Clarke: 23:53

defense. Like as as a and I know, this is probably a distant memory for you guys. But as somebody who sports a franchise that is defense first defense is a culture you know, defense is a is a mindset, it's mentality. I know sounds like cliches, but I gave it is what it is like if you if you're, if your defense is better than your offense, you got to lead with your defense. So you got to say like, You guys are the fucking studs. You guys are the animals. I love teams like that personally, like it's the reason why I've been so high on the Cowboys for the last couple years. Like if you're a Chicago Bears fan, and you don't love teams like that you should go fucking route for the Packers. You know what I mean? Like, that's what like that's what we do.

Rob Kelly: 24:28

Right? Then you're probably really depressed. Yeah,

Dave Clarke: 24:31

I mean, I am really depressed but like, that's serotonin. But, but like, it's the reason why from my perspective, like I've been high on the Chargers going into this season, I've been high on the 40 Niners going into the season. I've been high on the Cowboys going into the season because I love a good defense. I love a good defensive performance. Like my favorite performance of this whole year so far has come from the San Francisco 40, Niners as much as they didn't look very good against the Atlanta Falcons. I love a good defense and to me too. It's disrespectful, you know, because it's a hard job. up and it gets gets harder every year based on the on the God rule changes. And it's very like I grew up playing Madden to just go like now we'll score again you know, it's like not to trust your defense man I need them to make better decisions in that sense and and big up those players because they have studs all over the field that charges on the defensive side of the ball. And if you have a guy on your team with the last name Bossa you should trust your defense to fucking do what they're gonna do. I know what I mean, like it just is what it is. So it's disappointing how that team is being run, because I really genuinely believe that they have a ton of talent. Let's move on to number seven surprising I think drop in on this. But I mean, record wise, no, but I didn't think I was going to see the New York Jets on the on the Power Rankings top 10 this year to the point where I'm going to be really with you like, I have not been paying much attention to them like any other players on my fantasy team. I did not think that they were going to be good. And I need someone who explained to me what it is that got the New York Jets on the top 10 of the power rankings. And if anyone can, I mean, I'm not saying they shouldn't be there. But like what is it that have gotten the New York Jets as named is one of the best seven teams in the NFL.

Rob Kelly: 26:05

So there they've got so first of all, the least expected name I've ever had to put on this power rankings are teams we wouldn't have. Both of them giants are next, by the way. Spoiler alert, that they earned it if you look at the schedule man, the they've had. The signature young team wins the past three weeks when they have the game that they had no business winning in Pittsburgh when they score two touchdowns in the last two minutes. Then they have the big divisional game where they absolutely spank the dolphins. And then they come back and have that big game against the big team. The Packers that no one expected them to be and they come out and just dominate them. I just think like I said this to you I don't know if you remember this but during our first Initial Power Rankings I was like the Jets are my weird. Like, why are they in the playoffs? Team, but they just have that swag band so coach calls them the baby jets. And

Dave Clarke: 27:02

there's a lot cooler just for the records. What it is that we did the baby bears thing first. There's alliteration in that baby jets is fucking stupid. Why wouldn't you say Junior jets you guys are fucking stupid. It's super

Michael Marcangelo: 27:13

literally their top five top five draft picks are all starting on defense. Yeah, contributing bros

Rob Kelly: 27:23

Gardner is already a top three cornerback in in the NFL. He is locked down shut down from day one that dude is legit. It I don't know. I just love they're they're fun team to watch at least on defense. And because they just have that swag. Exactly. Like you said, like defense is a culture. And when you have a team that has that kind of defense, it exhibits this kind of swag that just comes off of them where you're just like, bro, I love this team like sauce. Gardiner putting on the cheese head as he's walking off like people are getting the ship. I love I love that. Yeah, like that gets me so fired up, bro that he was like, Yeah, let's go. He said Green Bay felt like home to them. Like it wasn't even a road game for them like that shit, bro. That shit. That shit runs through your locker room. And that's the type of stuff that gets you those weird playoff teams that you never expect.

Dave Clarke: 28:15

Totally. Mike, what do you think? Are these real?

Michael Marcangelo: 28:18

Yes, yes, I wholeheartedly think that they're for real. I think that that defense is, so they kind of remind me a lot like, are many of the bears DJ in the sense of very young team. And they have a pretty good foundation. I also I love their coach. And it finally feels like they're they're putting Zach Wilson in a situation where they don't expect too much from him. They don't want him don't lose us again. You don't need to win this one. Just don't lose this one for now. But and he's an exceptional talent. Like he has arm strength. He's got it all. So they have that they figured out their running game. But that defense man, I I said in the in the preseason, I think that the Patriots are going to be closer to the jets and they weren't to the bills. I mean, if the Jets keep rolling, I don't think it's going to be that close. I mean, the pitchers are number four in their division.

Dave Clarke: 29:09

That's I mean, a division. I think that has a lot more wins at this point in the season than we thought it was going to as a whole right. I mean, yeah, the Patriots come in third or fourth in their division was isn't incredibly surprising to me coming into the season, but to come in fourth, where everybody's over 500. Is that Is that a real real possibility that we might actually see like that's, that's the strongest division at that point. Right? You know, you have I mean, I know Miami is having trouble at the moment because they tried to kill their quarterback and I know that I still like to coach though, like he's funny. Like, he's entertaining, but

Rob Kelly: 29:45

like, he just broke that he's like, bro, you'll be fine. Come on.

Dave Clarke: 29:49

It's fine. It's fine. I mean, I know you're not making any sense when you talk right now, but you just play but yeah, I mean, that's cool. I like a good defensive team. I don't like the Jets, though. Some people Gary knows that

Rob Kelly: 30:01

they are hard to like, but this team's likable. Yeah, that makes sense. It's one of those were like, listen, I had like no faith that they were going to beat the Packers. And it was one of those where like, if if they do this, this will bring them to the point where they can be a believable, good team. To go into question though,

Dave Clarke: 30:20

like, I mean, that is that has to play some sort of a

Rob Kelly: 30:25

deal going into Lambeau as a young football team and coming out of there with a win regardless of what they're playing. Like, like, Yeah, but

Dave Clarke: 30:31

I mean, this is an iteration of the Packers that looks like it can lose at Lambeau to a team like the Jets you know what I mean? Like, I'm not taking I'm not taking anything away from I'm not taking anything away from the Jets. I'm really I'm really not like, they went in there and they're winning and the Packers have looked a little trick or treat this season. But you know, both both good or bad. I, I mean, Herro Rodgers coming out after the game being like, simpler, needs to be simpler, and then that the floor being like, I don't know what the fuck that means. It's like guys, honestly, whatever dysfunction you have, I mean, I obviously revel in it. I think I like better than embarrassment as a package loss, but the you know, your dysfunction. At least keep it behind closed doors, like at least don't come out in the press. And obviously, Aaron Rodgers has gone weird. You know, I mean, he's not Kanye weird. He's he hasn't become like a full blown anti Semite. But he's gone fucking weird. He's He's a weird dude. He's doing fucking, I don't know.

Rob Kelly: 31:24

Definitely different. He's definitely the Ayahuasca his his whole persona is a little different.

Dave Clarke: 31:31

The whole like, his family doesn't speak to him thing. Like, I mean, this family might be assholes. But like, what's, why do I know about that? Who's his publicist? It's fucking weird, you know? And he looks like he's about to ask me to like sign up for something outside the fucking grocery store. Also, it's like, Dude, it's there's not a good look. So and also, he doesn't seem like he cares that they're losing. They don't care and he might, he might care. He doesn't seem like he cares. And I feel like that, you know, that trickles down to the guy that doesn't get to talk to Eric Rogers on the roster. You know what I mean? Like that guy that might need to come up make a big play. He's like, Well, Aaron Rodgers didn't even fucking win or lose so like, Why do I go from there lose like that's just it's not a good attitude to perform in the press conferences. Again, I love it. But I'd like to see the JetSpeed a team that isn't obviously dysfunctional that is to start to say like they're the real deal that that's just me

Rob Kelly: 32:19

Aaron Aaron Rodgers remember I'm talking about Aaron Rodgers has the most passes behind the line of scrimmage so far in the NFL this year? That's so absurd for Aaron Rodgers of all people.

Michael Marcangelo: 32:31

It's because you know that when He says it's weird as fuck

Rob Kelly: 32:35

it's because all the rookie wide receivers that's 100% Why but then it just goes back to like, listen, they did this to themselves. This is like what I was talking about with the Cowboys. like listen, you can't let everyone go and bring in rookies and expect it to be okay.

Dave Clarke: 32:47

Yes, but you also can't like you also can't like not trust your coaches ever and bring in new regimes every like few years because like you're a little bitch and what you say goes because you're Aaron Rodgers and then expect a dynasty to be built around you because everybody's gonna have different opinions on who should be in there. This is what happens when you don't give people time to build a team. So like I have no sympathy for them not that I would anyway but Mike Go ahead.

Michael Marcangelo: 33:12

I was just gonna say like simpler and Aaron Rodgers mind is like his entire career. I think he's really talented. I think there's there's a little something going on personally, and I'd love to get into that at some point time toe, but now's not the time. It's crazy. Like sit like simpler is I'm just going to drop back I'm gonna run around a little bit in Jordi or Devonte, or rental coach is gonna run there's not gonna be a rep that just didn't beat their guy. I'm just gonna throw it there. Ever no NFL That's all he's never known.

Rob Kelly: 33:39

That's it. That's fat. Because I don't know if you remember like, the exactly the Geordie days. What he used to do is they do the rollout. And then one of their wide receivers would cut over to the sideline. And that was like their number one play. Like he was so good at that that throw on the sign was a really hard throw on there. Yeah, it is. But like, be able to make it. You're right. You're right. He used to that. That street football where it breaks down. Someone gets open, and he hits that open do but guess what? No one's open. Right? No one.

Dave Clarke: 34:10

That's why it's random. Every every play, you know, and it's and there's nobody there for him. And, you know, he's throwing it. Like, I think what he's trying to do too, is he's trying to go like okay, well, how do I simplify the offense for myself, if I have to make these under underneath passes all the time, if I have to pass a flat season go into his tight ends. The problem is is tight ends are you know, they're good, they're decent, but they're not. Kelsey Gronkowski level good. They're still fucking tight ends is the problem. So how much how many tight ends and really can make a play after you give them the ball like five yards past the line of scrimmage? Not that many, they might be able to catch it and they're big, so they might be able to fall backwards a little bit but you're not making explosive plays like you're used to seeing the Packers make. I will say they're I think they have the best run. Committee of running backs in the NFL. Like I think the way that they split the touches for their running backs and the way they use their running backs is better than any other team. Like, it's genuinely like it should be studied. Like, this is how you get to get the most out of two good running backs. This is when you use them. This is when you fill in like, this is when this guy spells this guy. This is going to be the reception guy for this situation like they're great at that. So and he's always had good running backs so I you know, it's I it's like when they say Oh, Tom Brady's always had a great defense. It's like, well, Aaron Rodgers always had great, great running backs. It's like, it just is what it is. So I mean, I know we're stuck down on the Packers and we should well so like they aren't important to you to talk about. I'm curious where you guys think they're going.

Rob Kelly: 35:32

So just stare at so that's why that went over the Packers was impressive because exactly what you just said where they have those two impressive backs. Total. Those two were 19 for 60. And in that game, so as you're doing average 4.1 But they shot Aaron Jones down like it was no no room for Aaron Jones. So the fact they were able to shut that down as impressive the Packers though, but that's panic buttons Central. You're already there already on the rumor mill for a wide receiver Something has to change there because you can't run a college style offense. There's no one could good college. It's like can't run the offense from navy. Would you know what I mean? It's not gonna work so something's gonna change where it's gonna come from Wolfer will flirt with Fleur or Rogers but it's panic button central ingredient for sure.

Dave Clarke: 36:25

Yeah, except for Aaron Rodgers. He can't panic anymore because he lives on a different plane.

Rob Kelly: 36:30

But by the way, I would love to get to the center of those those issues with with a with Aaron, if you want to. You want to hit me up we can.

Dave Clarke: 36:37

We can come on the show. We can talk I will be aggressive, but you can handle it. So moving on to the Giants, the other New York team that makes this list right above the the New York Jets. I like this team. I like the way they're coached. I like the way they're motivated. I like the way that they're using say, Quan Barkley, I like that they're keeping him safe. Keeping his productivity high. I like the way they're using their quarterback who is obviously limited in a lot of ways, but they're using them to win games, they look like a seven out of 10 at everything that they do to me and what most of all, considering what has emerged as the theme of this show. They're one of the few very well coached teams in the league. And I think from a man management, motivational standpoint, from a tactical standpoint, from a game time management standpoint, they look fucking great. From the coaching side of the ball. It makes me super jealous. And I just I'm not buying I'm not saying ever flutes is like a bad coach and remains to be seen. But he's making a lot of the same mistakes.

Michael Marcangelo: 37:30

He's no Brian, Dave, all those like I

Dave Clarke: 37:33

think like, I just think they're super well coached. You know, I think that it looks to me like a coaching staff that looked at a team and said, I think I know what to do with that team to make them into winners. And they came in they executed that game plan to quite honestly perfection up until this point. I think once some tape emerges, we'll start to see some of the personnel holes that they definitely have get exploited once they once that we get into the sort of the middle and the end of the season. I think it's difficult to ride the wave of momentum that they've been riding but as of right now can't slide them they've done what they've done. So Mike to you, what is it that's made this chargers? Chargers, this giants Team Good? And what is it that they're going to have to do to sustain

Michael Marcangelo: 38:16

it? So I think it's their grit. And that's such a useless shitty thing for me to say because I can't tell a tangible but very, very, it just sucks but like, it's you think about this, whether they're five and one, right? And their their point differential is plus 14. Yeah. So they're not blowing any teams out so they will win. Yeah. But to your point, though, what happens when a team figures out how to stop, say calmbirth? Because then do you trust Daniel Jones and his wide receiving Corps, which is a great tool when you again, I don't know. I just feel like, again, another useless platitude. But this I think this entire team like they just all actually believe in each other so that they're making up for it. They're overcompensating

Rob Kelly: 39:03

you sound. So it sounds so much like a Dan Campbell press conference, right? Yeah, we really just got to put

Michael Marcangelo: 39:08

my TED talk on how to on how to lose fucking listeners on a podcast. Well, in reality, I think we're gonna we're gonna figure out when we come up against a team that shuts take one out, if Daniel Jones shifts his pants like he has in the last few years, then we know that he's probably not going to be on the Giants next year. But I just think week six, I would have never guessed that the jobs are going to be six No,

Dave Clarke: 39:31

I don't think ever going to be and I but I do see your point. I think that you know, much like we were talking about with the Packers just now there's always going to be a game where a team figures out how to stop the run there just always is. If you rely on the run to set up your passing, you can survive that. If you rely on the run to spell your quarterback or to confuse defenses you can survive that if you rely on the run to win you games and I think I've been saying this on this podcast. I think you have to Mike for a long time if you rely on the run and win you games that is going to blow up in your fucking face. And I think that is definitely true. The Giants. Listen, I don't blame them. If I'd say Quan Barkley, you know what they used to say about Jim Brown. I mean, this was a different version, the NFL, obviously, but they used to say about Jim Brown, if you had the biggest cannon, you got to fire it. You got to say, Quan Barkley, you forget to use say, Quan Barkley, but I absolutely agree with you that they are going to find themselves especially at their now playoff team, they're on track to be a playoff team. If they get into the playoffs, they're gonna find themselves in a situation where say, Quan, Barkley cannot win the game for them. And then you have to ask Dan Jones to do it. And then they're all going home.

Michael Marcangelo: 40:32

So just again, against that, or just the game against Philly, like, that's gonna be the first like, you can't keep up with them.

Rob Kelly: 40:37

The thing is with them is like, that's almost like their strategy. Like, even if someone does stops eight, one, I don't see anyone taking a two three touchdown lead against this team and so forth. And that's all Dabo wants to do is stay in these games. Because he knows when it comes down to that fourth quarter, he can beat anyone he can no strategize anyone in one quarter. You know what I mean? Anyone can win anyone in 15 minutes of football. But but having having that extend to the whole four quarters is is different, but to look ahead at what their schedule is, right? So the next four weeks, they have the Jags, the Seahawks, the Texans and the lions, then they play the Cowboys again. But those four games, they should easily win three out of four of those games. So alright, even if they wasn't huge if they go to in two, that's easily seven.

Dave Clarke: 41:31

They haven't easily won anything. Like, up until this point, like like Mike said, they've toughed out a few games like they've they've managed games Well, like you know, I was talking about at the start, but like they they're not blown anybody out, you know, like they're not like

Rob Kelly: 41:42

the Eagles. They've beaten the Packers and the Ravens, I guess those are pretty fun so far, and maybe the Titans those those are, those are pretty decent things.

Dave Clarke: 41:52

I mean, they know and I'm not taking this away from the giants as part of what I like about them, like, what they're doing and what we're seeing as an example from them. If you take your exact perfect examples, the Packers, the ravens, teams with full of talent can still lose if you give gifts to the other team. If you if you if you hand them ways to beat you. That will be possible. The Giants don't do that. I love that about them. Like they don't they say if you if you're gonna beat us, you got to beat us. You know, you got to come beat us fair and square. Fucking Kingsbury rules, like one on one we got to do this, um, we're not going to hand you any gifts. We're not going to, we're not going to rack up 17 penalties. We're not going to cough up a bunch of stupid turnovers like, like certain teams in Chicago like to do at the last few minutes of games that you know, we're not we're not going to give you any gifts. So we'll beat the flawed teams. Now there are teams out there with innumerable talent on their roster that aren't doing that either. You know what I mean? Like they're gonna come up against the Cowboys team that don't beat themselves, you know, they had to get beat by the Philadelphia Eagles. You know, like it's an I'm sorry to spoil this, but we'll come on to talk about that. But I you know, I just think I've seen it time and time again in the NFL, like, you can manage your way to a few wins, but talent is what gets you deep in the playoffs like the studs is what gets you deep in the playoffs and they got sake won but was like with some miles on his on his legs, you know, going into week 19 or whatever it's going to be for them. So we'll see. I mean, I appreciate your faith in them. And I know why you like them. They're very likable. I'm not trying to poke holes in them. I just I do see Mike's point.

Rob Kelly: 43:28

Question for is this the most impressive first year coaching job you've ever seen? Ever? I think it's up there. It's I can't think of another one where he took a team that was with no talent and excelled to this point. You know, I

Dave Clarke: 43:45

mean, I can remember I mean, I love to see, you know, I'd love to see his point. Yeah, sure. No, totally. I mean, maybe in recent memory, I would, I wouldn't say definitively without like, Googling Bill Parcells his first season as head coach or like,

Michael Marcangelo: 44:02

it's still the other Harbaugh with the 40 Niners. I mean, he took that team and then brought them to, I think three straight NFC title games and won Super Bowl with Alex Smith and Colin Kaepernick. Yeah.

Dave Clarke: 44:14

Kaepernick was a fucking stud when he first came in, though. Yeah. You know, that's what

Michael Marcangelo: 44:17

it 2012 year he was. But Alex Smith was the starter they were 73 accurate over

Rob Kelly: 44:22

that packers playoff game who?

Dave Clarke: 44:26

All right, well, how about them cowboys? Bobby. Number five. tough loss. I'm sorry. That happened. I'll be honest with you. I didn't see the Cowboys win in that game, I think. I don't think they're bad team. I but I think we're going to come up to the and we talked about this a little bit. And this is sort of your point. Last time we talked about the Dallas Cowboys. We're going to come up to the limitations of Cooper rush at some point it was going to happen and it was probably going to happen against a really good team like the Philadelphia Eagles clearly are. I mean, they're undefeated. As much as I wanted to talk shit about the start of the year. They're fucking undefeated, which means they're out of the eyeball. So what what take away Should you get Bobby from from your from your cowboys team? What do you want to see when Dak obviously inevitably comes back. Now I don't think that's a conversation anymore. If you're throwing three fucking dots to the team in a different color than you that's, it's not a great look, especially when you're trying to keep your job. So when that comes back, would you like to still see this to Kalin? As we've all come to affectionally refer to him? Would you like to see him keep this same simplistic offense that that Cooper has been running? Or do we go back to what they were doing before and try and let that figure it out? Or they're in a they're in a weird Limbo here? I mean, it's another team that could that could push your slide depending on on some key factors over the next few weeks. So when is that coming back? By the way? Is it next week? Yeah. So he's coming back next week? For sure. So obviously, he's going to start what what kind of? Yes, yeah, sure. What What kind of a Cowboys team do you want to

Rob Kelly: 45:46

so just thank you keep that same idea of the offense, you just expand it a little bit and give an opportunity for those big plays, which they already still kind of worse, just rush wasn't delivering on them. You know, each of the interceptions was at least 1520 yards down the field. But who had that duck to see the lamb when he was wide open was one of the worst I've ever seen in my goddamn life. Oh, no, that's that wasn't this past week was exactly why Cooper rush can't be the starting quarterback, you know, it'd be when you have to rely on solely his arm because our run game isn't isn't getting that movement. You saw what happened, he had a 101 passer rating. In the first half was I just with this team, they very easily are the second best team in the UFC. You know what I mean? It's very possible that that's the way this is gonna shake out. So you I just can't see them. You know, wasting this out, I can definitely see it. I don't want to see them waste this opportunity without expending this offense for Dec. Because if you add an electric quarterback or an electric offense onto this team with that defense, anyway, we're putting up 24 points a game, we're gonna be a tough team to beat down the stretch. Tough team.

Michael Marcangelo: 47:02

I just want to say, because I was sent to a show when I was when I was on my honeymoon. And I heard you both mentioned me about how I was telling you that the Cowboys are going to be in it just to fuck with you and just to be like an asshole.

Dave Clarke: 47:14

I didn't know. I said, I was surprised to hear that Mike was fine. It was before because I didn't remember you saying that. And Bobby was like, He's just fucking with me.

Michael Marcangelo: 47:24

No. So I understand why you feel that way. But I was telling you that because I that's, that's how much I believe in that division, just fucking each other. That's what they do. Like you just never know when the NFCs what I will say is, I think when dad comes back, as long as kellen moore doesn't become a paranoid schizophrenic, like he was in the first couple of weeks doing all these double double reverses and jet sweeps and all this crap that doesn't fit Dak Dak is gonna is going to make your lackluster, wide receiving core better, because he throws the open guy. He loves CD land, too. But he, he made him a heat. That's why you love him. I also thought that this was the sixth best game of the season. So if you can split 30 carriers between those two however way you are, however you want to do it, and you get a buck 50 out of the out of that out of those backs, then anyone you play is in trouble. I just

Dave Clarke: 48:23

tell you why that is I'll tell you why it is because if you have a defense like you have, if you're able to run that clock and keep them off the field and fresh to go make plays for you, then you win games, if you ask them to stay stay out on the field for a long time, it's really fucking it's harder, it's physically harder to play defense in the NFL, it's you, you have to run more, you have to anticipate more, you don't get to make the first move. You're always reacting. Right. So it's just it's more of a toll physically also, I think there's a little bit of a bigger drop off in the sort of quote unquote skill positions on defense, you know, like the safeties and stuff, if you have a stud safety, chances are, you don't have another stud safeties sitting right underneath him, like you might have for running back, for example, or you might have three very serviceable tight ends, you know. So I think keeping those guys keeping your offense on the field for as long as possible managing clock, and almost asking Dak to not be the guy that he thinks he is, which is in the class of the Aaron Rodgers and the and the Tom Brady's and the guys who go out and win you games and asking him to be a little bit more of a game manager. So your defense can win you the games, just he just like it's the agreement in the cow in the in Dallas should be if you ask me. Just score 17 points. If you go out there and you score 17 points, we will win you the game from there because we will keep them to 13 Or will keep them to 10 Or will keep them to six like that. If you got to score 17 points every game and you're on the field. The offense is on the field longer than the defenses you win every single one of those games are guaranteed. So to me, it's about managing your games, you know and it's just about how successfully you can do that. And the Cowboys unfortunately are the worst franchise to be given that remit. That's because the second Dak Prescott starts making some plays. He's gonna be like, hey, it's my time baby and it's just gonna go buck and desert says that oh,

Rob Kelly: 50:16

that really is the MO with Dak though is like when you look at what's made him successful so far in his career, it's when they play, you know, football that's not based solely off of him. What the year that his rookie year, it was, it was Zeke's offense. You know what I mean? He had 1800 yards that first season like 14 touchdowns that Zeke was a monster. The next time they were gonna get up, I think was two years ago, I guess. And last year, last year was the defense and then two three years ago, also the defense plus Zeke I was like the Jaylon Smith van der rash season where they were like the Wolfpack receivers at that point. But like putting too much on Deck has always shown that it isn't going to work out well for us and yeah, we'll win a couple games we'll score 40 points in a few games but being the number one ranked passing offense with Dak Prescott hasn't worked out for us in the past yeah so so that ball control you rely on your defense is definitely the way we need to go with this team. Because that's the way that you're going to go far in the playoffs do especially in your setup see

Dave Clarke: 51:19

if Dak Prescott had come into the league 15 years sooner he would have been like the greatest quarterback ever because I just think that the margin for mistakes at the quarterback position and the reliance on quarterbacks Win win you games is is his sort of Albatross it's it's his downfall. Because you know, Red Five, if you remember used to it was like the riskiest fucking quarterback of all time, like I'm pretty sure he holds the interception record. So because he would just fucking fling it in there. And he would just try to make plays. And you could afford to do that in that version of the NFL. Now, the speed of defensive backs, the hands of defensive backs, the way the defensive players are able to make plays, the way that that defenses are asked to play. You can't do it anymore. So he's almost he's, he's transitionary amount of time to me. You know, it's like when you see a Senator who can't stretch the floor in the NBA, which is, you know, also we also have an MBA show up. You guys should listen to that, or we will we're gonna record after this. But it doesn't exist yet. But I promise it will. But you know, I think he's, he's, he's kind of transitionary in that in that way, don't you think? Because he's not a Josh Allen, or Patrick mahomes. He is more of a of a Brett Farve of a Ben Roethlisberger, you know, like he does sort of he's just sort of have that frame, he does sort of have that mentality, or am I way off base?

Rob Kelly: 52:33

No, I think you're spot on. And I think that that's what makes him have even a higher ceiling than even he realizes because if a big theme throughout the show has been game managing quarterbacks, you will get this top 10 Right now, the Pats, the Jets, the Giants, all these teams are not letting their quarterback beat down or relying on other areas of their team to win games. The Cowboys can do all that. Yes, you have a quarterback who can make the plays. And when you again, he doesn't have to do it. But when it comes down to it, he can't so I just think if they do this, right, they absolutely have another level to go to and the sky's the limit for them. However, it is still the goddamn Dallas Cowboys. They still will run a drop play with 13 seconds left like that. That's definitely

Dave Clarke: 53:25

being banned. Drop plays just not necessary.

Rob Kelly: 53:32

But yeah, so that's where I'm at with this team. We're like, what's my upside is very high on the same as it was last year. I think it's even better this year because of how they fought even in this past game. They fought back, you know, I mean, they were down 17 Nothing almost came back, but it's all with a grain of salt and I'm staying like six feet away at all times. Because I come in I think

Dave Clarke: 53:55

Mike, if you had to put all of your money on whether the Cowboys are higher or lower in the power rankings will come the end of the season. Which Way You bet

Michael Marcangelo: 54:06

because there they are right now other than the other two. Oh, and five. Oh, in I was gonna say in Bobby's. Or earlier nonbiased

Rob Kelly: 54:17

penzo That last playoff game goes?

Michael Marcangelo: 54:19

Yeah, I'll say I'll say to somebody the top 10 but they'll be lower than fast guy. I'll bet the house on it.

Dave Clarke: 54:25

So Mike believes in the Cowboys but maybe not as much as Bob does. But that's good. That's good. That's what we want to see from a fan but here we go with the fucking Vikings number four. You know, I mean, look, they've got a lot of skill players and and a lot of studs on the team. I get it. They won their game. I get it. I just don't buy it. I don't buy it. Kirk Cousins though. Just want to see it. I want to see him win in primetime. I want to see him win a buck and playoff game. He is the best practice guy I bet in the world. I bet he's the best quarterback. In practice you've ever seen in your life when it comes to actual big games that I just don't see it I mean 10am On a Sunday Kirk Cousins no fucking worries but I don't know man you know I it's I don't know so do you do you tell me Bobby number for the Vikings they're they're almost as good as the Kansas City Chiefs according to you so please explain it so

Rob Kelly: 55:18

they're not listening there's there's one one place away from no no there's a big separates like the Heisman vote where it's like the top 3000 points in like number four is a tight end from like, you know what I mean? That's, that's where we're at here. But but the Vikings man it's. So I heard a great analysis of Kirk Cousins and other famous podcasts or listen to BMT, but he was talking about how this is the first stage of the Kirk Cousins evolution where it's like, Kirk Cousins win the game at 1pm He looks amazing. The next one is like

Dave Clarke: 55:54

any pizza. It's like he's 18 for 20 You know 304 yards looks amazing.

Rob Kelly: 56:01

Jefferson has 170 Next week they beat the team on next week they beat the bangles you know like you're like Oh 4pm game he was alright. Then you have that primetime current game where you see it go all downhill again. And that's definitely the way it's gonna work. I don't like things are going to be able to go to the Super Bowl. That's not That's not like protection for them. But if they get that Saturday 1pm playoff game you have better believe they can win it Sunday 8pm playoff game not it wouldn't

Michael Marcangelo: 56:33

be a bad day

Dave Clarke: 56:34

when the division either at this point.

Michael Marcangelo: 56:36

The word if the word playoff isn't an idol bet Kirk Cousins is going to win it.

Rob Kelly: 56:41

They're gonna win that North. Right there's the Packers are coming back in the NFC North. Honestly.

Michael Marcangelo: 56:47

I think that there's okay. I believe in the Vikings folding more than I believe in the Packers. You know, overcoming the odds if that if that makes any sense. This game. Kirk Cousins went like 15 of 30 for 170 yards. And 110 of them are to Justin Jefferson. If tua was on the field and I can't believe I'm cannot believe I'm saying this. If they were not going against Teddy Bridgewater or Skylar Thompson, the dolphins win this game that's not close. Like there was nothing this was the most Kirk Cousins when they could ever see.

Rob Kelly: 57:22

I don't I heard cousins, Kirk Cousins. Yeah, I just

Dave Clarke: 57:26

I mean, I thought the better team last Thank you, to be honest with you. I just that's just what it looks like to me. I'm going a little biased, but those fuckers with those Vikings, but I don't know, man, I just think they've got weird holes. You know, it's like a team where it's like, oh, man, like really great skill position. But like, if you go into their Madden roster, I bet they're right guard is rated like a 63. You know, it's just like, there's just weird little things about their team that when I watch them, I'm like, that'd get exploited that get exploited. That's too simple. You know, they don't have studs in that area of the field. And I just think they just look soft. You know, they look like they have a soft underbelly that could be exploited by like a really hardcore team. Like,

Michael Marcangelo: 58:02

don't team that. Don't team

Rob Kelly: 58:05

isn't that isn't that like the MO of the entire goddamn NFL right now? You know, literally every single team except for that top three. You could describe in that exact way. There's not one that you're not like, what the fuck was that? What's going? What are you doing? Except for those top three teams? You know what I mean? Those three teams are different than everyone else. And right now, the Vikings are five and one and on top of shit Mountain. As far as I'm concerned. That's the way it looks in the NFL right now.

Dave Clarke: 58:36

So last week, when it was myself, Robert and Joe, we did something a little different with the top three. And I think we should do it again this this week because the landscapes changed a little bit. I'm going to talk to you guys about this top three, which is the Chiefs the bills the Eagles all as a group package. Last week, I asked the question to Joe and to Bobby, if the chiefs in the bills were playing tonight in the AFC Championship Game, who are you taking? I'm going to ask that question again, knowing now that the bills just beat the chiefs in primetime. And I wouldn't say it looked incredibly convincing. I wouldn't say either team look their best. But Bobby, do you remember your answer from last week? Now that you've seen what you've seen from from from a head to head match or from those teams and if they face each other in the AFC Championship Game? Have you taken

Rob Kelly: 59:24

I do change it honestly last week I said the Chiefs when it came down to that playoff atmosphere, but to me last night in arrowhead for the bills to come out and not even play their best football like that's not the best game that we've seen the bills play and look easily. I don't want to say easy but they looked like the better football team from beginning to end and it seems like when they wanted to do or when they needed to do what they needed to do. They did it. You know what I mean? Like they were able to do you know make that big play they were able to get get it to digs on that big third down. It just said just seemed like when the bills are running their offense and their game, they are a better team than the Chiefs at this point, and honestly, I'm ready to say, I think Josh Allen might be better than mahomes. And Josh Allen is something because

Dave Clarke: 1:00:15

let's wait until he's got some silver on his hands. Oh, great. So

Rob Kelly: 1:00:18

career wise, no, but but if you ask me right now, one game to win with quarterback, my taken, I think I'm taking Josh Allen and because of that rushing that he brings along with it,

Dave Clarke: 1:00:29

it's really it's not like you to be reactionary.

Rob Kelly: 1:00:32

He's never know. But he's like my golf dot with an arm. That's that's how he runs the football. And it's just, it's so different. That it's a

Dave Clarke: 1:00:41

different it's a different iteration of quarterback and I do agree with you there. I'm still taking Pat Bowlen personally but we'll get to that. Mike same question. You didn't get a chance to answer this last week and I do think it is and there's a follow up question that that brings them the number one team but in a playoff situation knowing what you know in their regular season head to head now in a playoff situation I know it's difficult to answer just reeling from like the primetime game that we all watched last night. The playoff situation bills chiefs who take

Michael Marcangelo: 1:01:07

chiefs I just I think this is still mahomes League until until it is he has to be dethroned and hunting last you know I just think that these are the two top of the top two teams AFC for sure. But something weird happens with buffalo in the playoffs. I don't know I don't want to do that they're chokers because I do think that they can play this game in Kansas City. Buffalo frickin the Netherlands in a wooded like I don't think home field advantage matters to these people. Because both home they're just used to playing on the road and they're used to playing in front of that in front of like raucous crowds. I just the dose of energy sets I think they have a better number one wide receiver obviously the tight end goes to to Casey but mahomes has taken his he's never played an AFC title game not at arrowhead. So that means he's always he's always the best team in his conference. So I'm still gonna take him

Rob Kelly: 1:02:06

so if right now if you were to want to cheat some bills up against each other 10 games that I'm playing right in a row every week. I'm pretty sure that bills one seven of those games because because that's I think that's how on Saturday I think they went at least seven of those games. And I also think that when it comes to that that late game situation right you guys remember this when the Chiefs used to be down 20 To 1435 to 21 need that late drive with 12 seconds left against the goddamn bills you knew they were going to score you knew it it was a was already written on paper. They were going to overtime they were going down in the field they were going to do what they had to do. I don't feel that with this team guys. I'm not I'm not hating on him. I just don't feel that that assurance that I felt before like like that that knowing of they're gonna drive down the field because they're the goddamn chiefs and that's what they do is not is not there

Dave Clarke: 1:03:05

and you're sure because they've kind of looked like that this season. I mean, yeah, when maybe not so much against the bills and I think the bills played a really smart game against them, but like Yeah, even I still think they can score it. Well that can you see Travis Kelce got like nine touchdowns in one game like it's, there's still the fucking chiefs dude. Like, at the end of the day, I would love to see the stats. I don't have these in front of me, and I'm completely guessing but I would love to see the stats on playoff matchups. When two titans, two juggernauts go out each other in the regular season because I bet I'd be willing to bet that the playoff winner was the regular season loser a lot of the time. I think if you're seeing each other in the AFC Championship game and you're the Buffalo Bills, you're you shown more of your hand to win the regular season game then then then the Chiefs have I also think I don't think Shawn McDermott is a bad coach by any stretch of the imagination. But I think Andy Reid is a better one. I think that the running game for the Kansas City Chiefs is clearly better. I think that they have guys that their RB two and RB three positions that are better than Devin Singletary has been for a lot of this season to be quite honest with you. And I don't think that they the bills can figure out how to even run the ball when Josh Allen isn't doing it. It's weird. It looks weird. They can't get it figured out. You can exploit that. I think that Pat mahomes is still a big game player. So he's proven that he can win huge fucking games of football and Super Bowls. Josh Allen hasn't done that. I think if it's a playoff situation like the way that the hypotheticals frame, I gotta take the chiefs. I gotta take the cheap but now red zone offense chiefs all day like it's just to me, it's Clayton,

Rob Kelly: 1:04:35

because the bills just beat the Chiefs bills up home field. Now Mike, you just said it. Chiefs have never played an AFC Championship game on the road with mahomes. Do you think mahomes can handle that buffalo crowd as

Michael Marcangelo: 1:04:49

well. Before Yeah, but I did say that it doesn't matter if you're playing Kansas City buffalo or the Netherlands. I think that the teams are so talented. The one thing I will say in Buffalo is fever. Is the is like the emergence of Gabe Davis now that they have an actual number to complement Stefon Diggs that makes their offense so much better than than it already was. And I think Bobby I don't I really don't think you believe in your heart of hearts if this if these teams play 10 games in a row that that his

Rob Kelly: 1:05:20

surgery went through this exact version if you lined up these two rosters i did i do if you're talking last year's chiefs tears? No, no, I don't this version? I do really? Because I mean, even in their wins, right? You look at the chiefs. The decay, you said this year, they've been super impressive. In their wins. They have

Dave Clarke: 1:05:42

were super impressive. I said that they can still they still at times look like they can score it will because they do.

Rob Kelly: 1:05:47

But it's still different than it was last year. I just feel like when it comes to figuring some stuff out.

Dave Clarke: 1:05:51

You know, it's like to give to give to say that you're going to take a guy like Juju Smith Schuster and slot them in where Tyreke Hill was and expect immediate results is just ridiculous. Like they completely they play completely different games. You have to learn to scheme for him. He has to learn to hook up with mahomes He's he's more of a deep threat than than a playmaker. He, he will get involved he will get better like he's still provably undeniably good on an undeniably good offense. They just need to figure out where to work him in. He becomes by the end of the season. I guarantee it. He becomes a wide receiver one in Kansas City as far as targets goes. And he's pulling them down. So that matchups comment like that that partnerships come in. Right, Travis Kelce makes it 10,000 times easier for Juju Smith Schuster to get their right to start to start that off. They've been double team and both those guys, you know what I mean? Like it's you mahomes used to be able to give it to Tyreke hill when a play broke down underneath and Tyreke Hill go make a play. They can't do that anymore. Fine. I understand that that limits their offense doesn't make them look as insane as it did last season the year before all that stuff. I get that. However, still Patrick mahomes. Still Travis Kelce. Still Juju Smith Schuster, quite hilarious having a great season. They've got two running backs underneath those two guys that are so good. This I will not accept this chief slander for one loss. I just will not. It's ridiculous. It's crazy. There's still the clock of Kansas City Chiefs. But

Rob Kelly: 1:07:15

it's still it's different than it was I'm not saying they're bad. I still think that it's such a big gap between still

Dave Clarke: 1:07:24

the best wire they have the best quarterback in

Rob Kelly: 1:07:25

the NFL. I think it's closer than we think.

Michael Marcangelo: 1:07:29

The one thing that was said before you before you talked about silly that's absurd is I mentioned a couple times because I wanted to talk about the point differential for the bills there plus 95. The next the next closest team are the Eagles and they're plus 56. The bills have allowed 81 points on defensive six games. It's fucking maddening.

Rob Kelly: 1:07:51

Which is why I think the best version of them this iteration again, this inner is better than the best version of that chiefs team. And I think what points of that is that loss against the Colts was the most abysmal loss I've seen from the chiefs in the Pat mahomes era. You know that that loss doesn't happen two years ago. It's

Michael Marcangelo: 1:08:10

their loss to the raiders and the Chargers a couple of years ago in Kansas City,

Rob Kelly: 1:08:14

but not in that way that they lost that game. Listen, the Colts handed the chiefs that game five separate times in the fourth quarter. And they just fucked it up each time. So

Dave Clarke: 1:08:25

like we like we talked about it's been a weird season, because that I think is one of the reasons but to finish up here, too. And to sort of extend the hypothetical that I gave that that launched us into that spirit and and riveting conversation with the chiefs in the bills. Thankfully, I mean, it really works for this each you took a different team. Bobby, you're taking your bills into the Super Bowl to play this iteration of the Philadelphia Eagles who you take. Who's winning? Who is the Super Bowl champ in this fun little hypothetical,

Rob Kelly: 1:08:52

I think it's the belt is specifically just because of what I just said where I think the best version of them is still better than the best version of Philly is in a championship type game with Jalen hertz with with you know, the unproven commodities at quarterback but, but I gotta say, Man, I'm so impressed with the Philadelphia Eagles and what they're doing on both sides of the ball besides the bills to me, I think you know, they they look like the most talented football team in the NFL. I just think when it comes to Philly so far, they've just had the most impressive run. And I think that they have the easiest schedule from here on out. So a Philly is such a complete football team and I don't unless something really goes bad or goes wrong and one of these games was if that team is running the football, they are unstoppable. You can't that you cannot beat that team. If they're running that option play. They made Michael Parsons Freeze 10 times last night. I haven't seen that since he came into the NFL one time. It's just crazy. What that run offense does for this team.

Dave Clarke: 1:09:58

Sounds like you're taking Philly to

Rob Kelly: 1:10:02

Buffalo because of all the reasons I said over that before, gotcha. Hey, Josh Allen, the alligator point storage, Josh down 100%.

Dave Clarke: 1:10:11

All right, yeah, I can see that I did. Again, it's difficult for me to poke holes in anybody that is high on the on the Eagles, but I'll reserve my thoughts until I hear Mr. Mark Angelo's opinion on if he takes his chiefs into the Super Bowl and has to play the Philadelphia Eagles, which, which divisions coming home with the Lombardi trophy?

Michael Marcangelo: 1:10:30

Yeah, I would still pick the Chiefs only because so far. This is such hypothetical, but it's it that would be attract me in the in the highest state game and I don't know that Jalen hertz could compete or keep up with Pat mahomes or, or Josh Allen, just just in that. I think that so he is a complete team, for sure. But an either either scenario to your point mahomes When he it still feels like whenever he wants to. He's just three flicks of the wrist away from 21 points. I agree. And I don't know if Jalen hertz has that.

Dave Clarke: 1:11:05

I think I mean, okay, so let me let me pose this hypothetical to you guys. Who do you think regardless, we talked about the matchup between the bulls and the chiefs. Who do you think matches up better against the Eagles between those two teams? Because personally, I think it's definitely the Chiefs for the exact reason Mike just said is it's going to become a sprint. You know, like those two teams are gonna get into a sprint I have legitimately never seen the Chiefs this this chiefs team lose a sprint. I've seen a managed out of a game I've seen them nullified I've never seen them fucking lose a sprint or shoot out that kind of magnitude. The way the bills beat them was they stifled and frustrated and made plays when they had to make plays like they looked good you know, obviously it was it was a lot of talent on display, but you're going just absolute run for run with them your your foot. I Bobby Do you agree?

Rob Kelly: 1:11:50

I think it's I don't know the Chiefs have a really bad run defense so that I think the bottom third in run defense right now. So if I don't think it's

Dave Clarke: 1:11:59

like, I think that they're gonna be like, I'm 50 to 44

Rob Kelly: 1:12:04

Okay, so you're right, because because they were just out score them so I think you're right there. I do think though, if you shut down that run deep that run in Philly, and you put the game solely on Jalen hertz, he's gonna make a mistake. He you just need to capitalize on that. That's been his MO his whole career. So I think that that's the recipe to beat them and I think the bills can do that. But I also agree if it's a shoot out the Chiefs I was like,

Dave Clarke: 1:12:32

you know, for that reason, I just and this is just a gut feeling thing. The Eagles have like that 15 plus when regular season crap out in the playoffs vibe to me like just for that exact reason. And I you know, I hate to say it because honestly, they are fun to watch like they're really genuinely adding to the product in a big way this season. And, and I think and they feed a lot of teams that don't like and they've won games that in very impressive ways. And I think your long may it continue, but I think I know it's been late in the season that this hasn't happened yet and we thought it was gonna happen already. But I do think there's going to be an evening out again, you know, there's going to be a little bit of a, of a kind of a settling of the boat. And we're going to be reminded that the the best quarterbacks in the NFL are the ones that are going to win the championships and as much as Jalen hertz is very talented and you know, really impressive. He's not Pat mahomes And he's not Pat mahomes in a playoff situation or Super Bowl situation. So

Michael Marcangelo: 1:13:27

also to your point like as far as much parodies we think that there is an NFL right now like the names that you're used to hearing with Aaron Rodgers or the Tennessee Titans the Tom Brady's they're just three and three. Yeah, but they have not fallen back that far. That they're just waiting for one of these up and coming teams to make a mistake and then they'll go capitalize on it though, then they'll be there at the end.

Rob Kelly: 1:13:48

Yeah, let's be let's be real the Packers and the Bucs are one went away from being right back in this top 10 If an impressive win comps they could even jump into that top five so they're not far behind on this list.

Dave Clarke: 1:14:02

I don't see that happening for the books. I don't I don't either.

Rob Kelly: 1:14:04

I don't see it happening with either.

Dave Clarke: 1:14:07

I don't know what it is. Up down there. There's there's a there's a there's a fucking Hello, you know, magazine right at the counter at the grocery store type shit going on down there. In Saudi like,

Rob Kelly: 1:14:18

I think he's regretting not coming back. And he's coming regretting coming back to Tampa personally, but

Michael Marcangelo: 1:14:23

I didn't Well, I mean, go ahead and like, you try to go to Miami. I mean, he tried to do everything in his power. Imagine that Tim with whatever.

Dave Clarke: 1:14:34

He's like, I still want to live in Florida though. Yeah, I need a minute. Look, it's weird. It's weird. He's He's a weird dude. There's some weird stuff obviously going on in his life. I don't really care to comment on his personal life, but it obviously is seeping into his play. Yeah, I mean I think I think that, you know, I'm always I always try To become Steelers, because my wife's a Steelers fan has been difficult to season. I think they're super flawed. I think they have a great coach though, and I think it's on the theme of coaching around the NFL. I think he's really trying his best to keep that ship together with spit and fucking chewing gum but to lose to that Steelers team if you're going to be the Tampa Bay Buccaneers team that you're supposed to be to lose like that too. In sort of just that offensive just if since since they played the Cowboys like it's just been like, Tom Brady can't fucking score in the red zone. What is happening right now?

Rob Kelly: 1:15:31

That game either if Yeah, that's what I that's what that's exactly.

Dave Clarke: 1:15:34

So exactly what I'm saying. It's like you Tom Brady can't get it done. Like his killer instinct isn't putting these working games away. These are these are games that Tom Brady wins. So it's weird. It's just weird. I can't explain it. I've looked at it from a lot of different angles. I've watched a lot of Tom Brady this season, as we all are want to do every season when he plays. I mean, he's, you know, he's the goat. I can't put my finger on

Michael Marcangelo: 1:15:54

what it is right? Or what's wrong thing looks right. But yeah, he's

Dave Clarke: 1:15:57

wrong. Something's fucking wrong. I don't know what it is, man.

Michael Marcangelo: 1:16:01

I know that it's early in the season. But I just want to say this right now. I want this on on record. I'm not a Pittsburgh Steelers fan. I mean,

Dave Clarke: 1:16:09

we know I know.

Michael Marcangelo: 1:16:12

It should scare the shit out of you. If you're if you're a fan of any team in the AFC if they finish with a bad record, and they have a top 10 draft pick because what that place does with skill position players is absurd. I know. It's great. So if you give him a top 10 Pick, like they're going to be like the best team in the AFC for the next 10 years. Just so we don't I'm not gonna

Dave Clarke: 1:16:33

see Mitch

Rob Kelly: 1:16:34

is that not that we are is that the most surprising when you've seen the last couple of years distinguish between the Bucks yesterday that No, that's a really bad bad team beating Tom Brady. Well,

Dave Clarke: 1:16:49

I mean, you know that always happens without make make a fake Patrick didn't even play Yeah, but I mean I think you wonder I do think you as much as they're not great. And I agree with you. I still think that like there's a chance that Mike Tomlin keeps his I never finished under 500 record this season like I think that there's a world where he can get that figured out like Mike said, I mean I don't want to keep doing this like defend the Steelers thing because it's like getting old as a bit but like they do still like he said produce great skill players. It's always like, Oh, and here's Bama do mama bamboo and he's like the seventh round pick out of fucking Mizzou and he's unbelievable like it is what happens there like it just is like they still do have Nagi Harris like they still do have Mitch fucking now just kidding listen to is fully it's fully in swing. I'm really happy for him. He's obviously had a tough season slash career slash life. So I think that sums up our NFL show a lot of weird stuff going on. The themes sort of seem to remain remain the same every week, and we do our power ranking show here on it. I'm missing the point, but it's been fun. It's been a lot of fun. I look forward to Sunday more than I have in probably a long time. Watching redzone and cracking a fat tires is one of the few joys I have left in this ever dwindling existence. So thank you all for listening. For Mike Mark Angelou and real BK Bob Kelly for our producer extraordinaire Craig D'Alessandro. Thank you so much for listening to missing the point and we'll see you next week.