Who's to Blame For The Boston Celtics Panic? Brad Stevens? How to Save The C's Season.

Craig D'Alessandro: 0:24

Today I'm missing the point. As we head towards the all star break we take a look at the Boston Celtics and their disappointing start of the season we'll talk about what's gone wrong, who's to blame for the season meddling and what moves Danny Ainge can make to get the seeds back on track. This is missing the point, Episode 40. But it's all relative.

Michael Marcangelo: 0:58

Welcome to another episode of missing the point I'm your host and Michael Mark Angelo as always joined by the real DK sizzle, I almost combine the two there, Clark. little thing we should a little thing we should mention here DK sizzle is the Robin Hood of traders of Jeff Teague stock internally here at missing the point. So he is the reason that they skyrocketed. And we are the reason that he crashed.

Dave Clarke: 1:20

Are you still I'm holding, there's no choice when you lose that much you got to hold. You got

Rob Kelly: 1:26

once you get into negative you can't go anywhere but

Unknown: 1:29

sell at a loss.

Michael Marcangelo: 1:31

We're also joined by the man that would if he had the opportunity to vote for Peyton pressured 100 times out of 100. He would do it for Rookie of the Year Bob Kelly Bobby, how are you?

Rob Kelly: 1:40

I'm good, man. I'm good. I mean, considering he's been one of the one bright spots for the past week and a half my stock my stocks just on the rise at this point, you

Dave Clarke: 1:49

know, I actually bought the pain, Prichard stock too, but I gave it to you out of sympathy, because you were so into him. It didn't feel fair to hold both, but I made the wrong choice.

Michael Marcangelo: 1:59

So if you guys can't tell what we're going to talk about today is really the Boston Celtics, where they are, why they are where they are, who they actually are right? Like, is this who they're going to be moving forward? Is it an aberration? And then we'll also talk about a couple other NBA topics. I will start off by saying that the Celtics recently have not shown us that they are a good NBA team. And the reason why I say that I'm gonna hit you guys with a few stats, and I'll open

Unknown: 2:23

it up. Oh, no, this is gonna be brutal.

Craig D'Alessandro: 2:25

They're there. They're barely 514 and 13. Currently. Interesting enough, in December, they're averaging 113 points again, they were shooting 42.8% for the field. In January, they averaged 111. Shooting 41% from the field in February this month. 107 points a game 37% from the field. So they're on the downward trend. My question to you, Bobby, is this trend reversal? Or is this just who they are?

Rob Kelly: 2:53

I mean, that's kind of a double edged question. Because like it is who they are right now is this team as constructed with the players they have how young they are, I don't see them, putting together a consistent stretch that we're looking for from them just because of how inexperienced they are. At the same time, they do have that potential to where if they do play as good as they can. They are a team that can beat the best teams in the NBA. We saw last night with the nuggets when these guys play up to their potential they can absolutely compete with those teams. It's just a fact that right now, this team is so young, so inexperienced on the bench, and there's just they don't have that go to guy right now. Except for my man, Payton Pritchard off the bench, that that can push them to that next level consistently. And that's the problem is it's like that consistency where right now we're watching the game illusions to the Hawks. Most predictable thing ever. Because it's like you see them almost beaten? Or do you see them beat the nuggets? And I knew they'd have this letdown. It's just the type of team they are at this point. So yeah, it is who they are. But who they can be is a different level of basketball team that we haven't seen

Michael Marcangelo: 4:07

before. Kick it over to Dave, like, the nuggets. I mean, they're the seventh seed in the West. There's they're 15 and 12. They're not that good. So what would you say like one of the best teams the NBA, I think that we overvalued just the fact they're in probably the tougher conference, but DK based on like what you've seen over the last two weeks, I'll ask you the same question. Is this trend that they're currently on over the last three months? Is it reversible? Or? Or is this the team that we're that they're going to continue to be unless they make a move?

Dave Clarke: 4:36

I mean, yeah, now with this current group, no, this current list of personnel I mean, Bobby has a slightly more optimistic view of them. I think like there has been one bright spot in Payton Pritchard, and he has a bright spot but I think if we're sitting around talking about a seven point averaging guard coming off the bench, we're in pretty dire straits. I think at the at this point, the two big free agent, big being, you know, air quotes, free agent signings interest in Thompson and Jeff Teague. It was like when the signings happen I think we're all kind of collectively lukewarm about it especially after what felt like a pretty big Miss in in that in how we squeezed the Pacers and how that all worked out with Hayward the trade exception and Gordon and all this stuff, especially with how Tardos playing now man with how are sorry, yeah, no, not Gordon Myles Turner and thinking we were gonna get Myles Turner and then kind of settling for Tristan Thompson. It was like alright, well, we can still get excited. And then we got Jeff Teague and it was like, Oh, we definitely needed like an upgrade at guard Brad watermaker wasn't the answer is like Canvas backup. And then Jeff t got a great game. And then now he hasn't done anything since, like, at all like he's been actually, like, actually harmful to the Celtics since his very first game if I'm being honest. And you know, it's if those guys come in and they were supposed to be our answer at depth. And they're just not then yeah, this is what we're going to look like. I mean, we're so shallow. You know, our bench just stinks. It's just not good. And like we need to improve our bench like, almost everybody on the bench if I think if we had if we kept Jason Tatum, Jalen brown and Payton Pritchard, and I would say everybody else is on the trading block for me. Like I wouldn't be upset if anybody even Marcus. Yeah. Oh, yeah. 100% I mean, it's like he's not he's been getting banged up periodically this season it I feel it when he's out. But like, not nearly as much as Tatum being out. And then you know, him kind of Tam coming back and not playing well. It's been a big reason why we can't we can't win games. But yeah, everybody, like I'm excited to see Robert Williams his ceiling. But like, if it takes if it means getting another two or three really good players to backup, we need size and we need shooting, you know, and we just don't have that right now. Well, so

Rob Kelly: 6:42

my question with the with Tatum effect. So you bring that up? Is like that's been that was the starting point for the downward trend. Well, he

Dave Clarke: 6:49

hasn't looked right since he came back.

Rob Kelly: 6:51

Agreed. And you know, there were seven and three when he went out. And ever since then, it has just been downhill and there's been no stopping the snowball. So it's like, I know, this team is playing like crap right now. And listen, you're preaching to the choir javante green has no business coming off the bench have a legitimate

Dave Clarke: 7:13

it's like come on,

Rob Kelly: 7:14

there's guys that come off the bench. And I'm like, Listen, these are not the guys. Semi. So what it should be is like semi Peyton and and really that's it semi and Peyton are the guys that should be playing like 12 to 18 minutes a game he teens distress for semi or for like, well, that semies the 12 Payton's the 18. And then we should have like another guy that's like 2324. And that's the move that we need to make. There's a guy that can come off the bench and be a legitimate threat to score the goddamn basketball when Tatum or brown or off or off the floor. That's who we need to come in and make a difference.

Dave Clarke: 7:48

Yeah, and unfortunately, you know, a record like this at this point of a truncated season is really unfortunate because you don't have that then the luxury to extend your rotations. And keep your record high and keep your superstars rested and get minutes in the legs of your young guys. And like what we need right now with Tatum coming back from a COVID thing that seems to be he says sticking around and his lungs and like, you know, it's we don't it's different for everybody. So I don't know what his symptoms are, what he's feeling, but it's clear that he's not like playing the same as he was before he got sick, he needs rest. But you can't rest him right now because everybody else sucks. So it's like, then you shorten your rotations down to nine men, which is playoff numbers. You know what I mean? Like those if it's nine guys split in time that you're at your playoff rotation already. And you know, we're only 20 some odd games in like, That's not good. So that ruins the playoff picture in advance. And it's just like, just you got to make a move, you got to make a trade, you know, we have to do something we have if we want to. At this point, I'm worried about Tatum and brown, like long term, you know, we need to keep them safe long term this

Rob Kelly: 8:54

season is a couple of weeks away from being a wash. It's a keeps them happy and keeps them happy and happy exactly all the time. We can't let this turn into a harden in Houston or apologize George in Indiana where they're begging to get out because we can't get them to that next level.

Dave Clarke: 9:10

fact is we're in that you're absolutely right, because we're in that player empowerment era now and like we're not any different as the Boston Celtics, like, they'll just leave like they will if we're not doing the right thing. Like that's what the enemy is now. And I know that like we all grew up in areas where it's like, it was the bowls in Michael Jordan, you know, now it's, it's not the same. It's about what the players want to do. And I think they're happy right now. I think they're happy with each other, which is big. But damn, man, you know, we got to do something to keep them around and like watching john J. Green, you know, out there for 14 minutes and score four points. You know, it's just like, come on,

Rob Kelly: 9:47

dude. I will get four points going out there for 14 minutes. Like Get out of here with that. devonta green and trauma waters playing significant minutes on a content Get out of here, man. I agree.

Dave Clarke: 9:57

Yeah. And also I really don't like watching Justin Thompson play basketball, and it's I know it's upsetting and I thought he was gonna do something different when he came in here and it's just it's not good. He's good. He's like a giant Marcus Marcus. He stops the ball a ton. He I guess he's okay in there. defensively. His transition games trash. Stevens doesn't like him defensively. You can tell he doesn't like him on defense. Brad Stevens doesn't like him, but is because he's over six foot nine. Anyway. Doesn't get into a Brad Stevens team apparently,

Michael Marcangelo: 10:27

I guess my question would be along those same lines, right? His you see that their points for game are going down there, they feel good percentages are going down. As a coach, if you like now that you have this, we'll call it. You know, we'll call, you know, what was it 40% of the season that has been played? What do you do? Because now it's, we've all talked about one time another how we think that Brad Stevens is really good basketball coach, right? He's smart. All of that, though his the knock on him is that he can't coach stars and make that team gel. Right now there. There is no one on this team, besides the homegrown talent as far as stars go, and they are on the downward trajectory. So what does he do? And if he doesn't do it, I'll pose this question. I don't care that they just gave an extension. Is this it? Like, are we witnessing what could be the last season of Brad Stevens if this downward trend continues?

Dave Clarke: 11:22

I think that he's gonna get held responsible one way or the other. So whether it's his fault or not, if he if we hit the end of the season, and we're under 500, or at 500, he's gonna get blamed for it. So the fan base is already like, pretty toxic towards Brad like already. I think that a lot of people are really fed up with him. I really like him. I don't think it's like time to give up on him. I think he's like a really smart coach. But it would be hard for me to defend him. If we finish the season like this. It'd be hard, it'd be difficult to defend it because it's like, yeah, like I said before, it's he doesn't like tall basketball players, which is annoying to me. Like, I like those players like the Andre drums of the world. Like you told us the other day, Mike about that rumor. And I'm like, I just thought my first thought was great, go get him rebounds. Like love it, like, look like he will be just so much bigger. And then I thought Bret Stevens is gonna be Andre Drummond like, What? He's not gonna go do that. And if he does, we're never gonna play.

Rob Kelly: 12:17

It'll be at Greg Monroe over again. Remember, we had Greg Monroe in here, and I

Dave Clarke: 12:20

was pumped when he came in. But then wait, I mean, he definitely was a very one way basketball player. But like, I but I know what you mean. But I just it's like, like, we used to be the best. My thing is we start with defense on this team. And that's what I always liked about this team. And we used to be the like the best defensive team in the NBA, we're just not anymore. And that's all well and good because I think, I mean, I want to be a good defensive team. But we also have Jaylen brown and Jayson Tatum, which is the best two men like tandem in the entire NBA with the exception of obviously LeBron James and Anthony Davis. But we have those guys in and I want them to do whatever they want. I those there, it's time now it's their team, they get to play however they want, they should score a lot of points, they should do whatever they need to do, they should learn how to play with each other and you need to bring people in to back them up. Like you need to bring players in to build around Jason Tatum and Jalen brown now that's it. It's the whole like position plus five man like young up and comer team that that's over like you have two bonafide superstars now, especially with how Jalen Browns been playing this season, take them way back, like he'll get his game in. It's all good. he'll fix this breathing like, whatever, he'll be back. And he'll be you know, better than ever before. And we need to build around those guys. We need a third scoring threat, which we don't have because kemba Walker as much as he's had a good couple of games. You know, he needs to do that consistently. He can be that but if not, we need to go get one. And we need a guy who can play around the rim athletically either Rob Williams needs to go up nine levels, or we need to trade everyone to go and get somebody big and like you know, I don't know who that guy is. I you know, I take anybody at this point. But yeah, we're not with this personnel is the short answer to your question. I guess.

Rob Kelly: 14:00

I love Brad Stevens man I have since he was at Butler, Mike, I'll never forget watching that national championship where Hayward missed that winning shot when Stevens was coached there with you. Like, like, I love Brad Stevens. He's had a special place in my heart for a long time. But I'm seeing shades of the mark Jackson warriors and I've said this to you guys before where it's like, Listen, mark Jackson was a great head coach. There was no knocks against him when he left Golden State. Everything was like he's a good coach. He's this he's that he's just not that guy to get this team to that next level. And then the Warriors bring in Steve Curren. All of a sudden it's 72 wins, winning three out of four championships and a dynasty. And like, I don't I'm not saying that's what this could be. But it really seems like that's what this could be. You know, like, this team isn't getting to that next level with Stevens. And I don't know if that actually is the answer. But it really feels like it honestly could be like Brandon's like you see another level they could go to but they don't sometimes it seems like they don't have that eyes a tiger and sometimes you need a coach in there that can't who can bring that to him?

Michael Marcangelo: 15:14

For me it i think that that comparison to mark Jackson is is a good one. But the thing I would say is I don't think that the talent level as it currently constituted on the Celtics would mimic what you saw in Golden State. I think Cuz I do think that Jalen and Jason have gotten to that next level. They're both averaging upwards of 2527 points a game, but the how you ended. That point, to me is where I'd want to talk about a little bit. I don't think Jalen brown or Jason Tatum are locked into it. Brad is saying, I think at times they tuned him out. I think you can see the team tuned him out. And because I think we liked him because he took a team you know, that I you know, went dark left all the stars left that they should have been nothing for a long time. And they weren't that they it wasn't it was

Rob Kelly: 15:59

that Evan Turner? Kelly olynyk?

Michael Marcangelo: 16:01

Yeah, it was one

Dave Clarke: 16:02

year and he brought me in, they were fun to watch. They were super fun to watch. They were young, they move the ball really fast. Like they you know, they hit their spots really well. They feel lanes. Well, like there was a very good fundamental team. But thing is, that team isn't gonna win a championship. You know what I mean? It's just that's not in today's NBA. So what you need now is you need superstars. We have that and I see Bobby's point, like, I see it in a very optimistic way where I'm like, that'd be great. Actually, if that was true if Brad came in and he was like, he was the guy to like mold the young team and like take them this far, but maybe this is as far as he can take them. And have a guy come in and elevate the two guys who might be superstars to that Steph Curry Klay Thompson level and then it doesn't matter who else is on the team. Like that's, that's just true of the NBA. You know, it's like we talked about like, oh, that guy is good. That guy's good. But the thing is, nobody likes to say it. But in basketball matters for your best three players are not your worst three players. It's a strong link sport. It's about who your best guys are. And as much as it's cool to see youth develop and it's cool to be like, Oh, nice, like, this guy's getting better like Payton Pritchard like coming off the bench. I don't give a shit about Payton Pritchard like maybe in three or four years, but like our best two to three guys need to be like, put in a position to succeed and put in a position to win. And if your best two to three guys are in a position to win and their ceiling is championship, which was what we think about Jalen and Jason. I mean, to put it another way, if you piss away any years of Jaylen brown and Jayson Tatum, your heads gonna roll that's just like the way it is. And this is the first year where it feels like a year of their careers are getting pissed away. Everything else felt like a build every other year before this felt like work in progress moving in the right direction, like, Oh, he's going up a level, he's going up a level. Now it feels like we're wasting talent all of a sudden, and it turned on a dime. real real quick. I'll admit that. But it does feel that way. And yeah, I mean, whether it's his fault or not, it'll be his fault. So

Michael Marcangelo: 17:59

I think it has to be his fault. Because if we're gonna give him credit for building this team, to where we thought they were going to go and and be on the precipice of a championship, it just feels to me, Brad Stevens can make really good coaching decisions and make you think that the team is good when they're really not. But when they really are good, he cannot make you believe that they're great. He's not that

Dave Clarke: 18:19

we better hope that's true. Because if it's not Brad's fault, and it's not a situation where a coach can come in and elevate our superstars and like, maybe get more production out of the bench for what we have, then we have a real issue, we have a real issue in the sense that everybody on our roster sucks except for two guys. And those two guys might not necessarily be winners. And that's, you know, that's a much bigger project to take on an issue to have. I hope it's just down to Brad.

Michael Marcangelo: 18:47

And I think like Bobby, I would say like for you, I think Payton Pritchard will be a much better basketball player if Brad Stevens is his coach long term. I think based on what I've seen recently, the Celtics will not reach that next level of long term. If Brad Stevens is their coach, do you disagree? Or what do you think about that?

Rob Kelly: 19:03

No, I agree. I think if we want a legit champion, if we want a legitimate contending championship squad year in and year out, I do think we need a new voice in here. I think it's just reached that point. I hope he proves me wrong. I truly do. Because like I said, I love Brad Stevens. I love how coaches basketball. You guys know me I love I always say I love basketball porn. And that's how Brad Steven coaches is when you watch him coach a basketball game, you're like, man, the way they move the ball, the way they play fundamentals. Like

Dave Clarke: 19:31

we don't even look like that anymore.

Rob Kelly: 19:33

Right? But that's right. That's the problem. That's the problem is like now it's frustrating. Basketball is what you watch. And, and I do think it is kind of a testament to like Tatum and brown to kind of tone him out sometimes and play hero ball. You know what I mean? And I do think that's what's happening. So I think that if we do want a legit chance to win a championship, if it doesn't happen this year, if we don't see a forward stride, like you always say, Mike, we don't see something that shows us. This is the guy and this is the team that's going to take it to that level. I think it's inevitable that after the season, Angel looks at it, because you know, the angels never gonna think it's him. And he's never gonna tear down this team because that's who he is. You know what I mean? He is the guy and he's the GM and he put the team together and it's not his fault. And to him, it's gonna be we need someone else to take us to that

Dave Clarke: 20:24

next That's the thing is it tunes into this podcast and he hears me at the very start, go. Now this fucking roster, he's gonna disagree vehemently like he's gonna disagree vehemently he put this roster together and he likes this roster. So if he goes out, I hope I'm wrong about that like Like you said, Bobby, you're hoping you will be wrong about Brad, but I don't hope you're wrong about Brad. I hope it is Brad's thing. Like I just said, If Danny Ainge came in here, he'd say that to me, like no, this roster is good. It's like, well, and what's the problem? Danny, Danny's next thing is he's gonna be like, probably the coach, because Danny's not gonna but Danny, Danny makes the decision and he's not gonna blame his selections in the draft for the last five years on on like, he's not gonna blame or like success on that. He's just isn't

Rob Kelly: 21:03

it as soon as as Brad's rhetoric that bothers me. That's what really gets under my skin honestly, is like, the way he doesn't hold his team truly accountable. You never hear that out of his voice, though, is like when they have a crap game. Or they do this, like I sent this in the text three days a joke is like, he just comes out. And he's like, yeah, you know, I like the way we're going. I like the way we feel. You know, it's just we're getting our shots. You're not following. We're playing effort. We're getting there. But they're doing this and they're doing that. And you know what, Ken was a big part of the plan. kambos a big part of it is just like, dude, I could record you every night and you say the same shit. No matter what happens in the game. If we lose by 30, or we lose by three, you say the same thing. And I just want to see Brad one time, just one time be like, Listen, that was bullshit. What just happened on that court was absolute bullshit. We shouldn't play like that. We're too good and something needs to change. And I've never heard that out of Brad Stevens.

Michael Marcangelo: 22:04

It's like the Bill Belichick press conference. It's all the bad parts. Really. He sounds exactly the same won or lost or won or lose. But he always it always sounds like a loss. Brad. It's like, well, maybe they won because Ken was going to be a huge part of it. He really likes what they do. But in actuality, they just lost back to back games to six win teams.

Dave Clarke: 22:23

I'm not so concerned, I'm not so concerned with with that kind of stuff.

Michael Marcangelo: 22:27

Well, I am I'm not concerned with losing to a six win team. And then like in two weeks losing to another six, one team. My concern is that when it happens and back to back games, when you have what you think should be the level of talent that you have, you cannot be down or get down for both of those one. Sure. Everyone has an off day. But two

Dave Clarke: 22:47

it's about to me how they look when they're losing is the most concerning thing over the last few weeks is they look, there's you know, I'm sitting there watching it and I'm getting mad because I'm you know, I don't live in Massachusetts, I have to pay for frickin NBA league pass to watch all their games. So I'm paying for it. I'm sitting there on a Tuesday night watching them just not try. That's the thing that's bugging me. Like it's bad body language. It's slumped shoulders, you know, it's just like, it's they're not talking to each other. They're not moving around. They're not running hard. They're not playing hard defense. And it's just like, guys, like, I don't care if you lose, but please look like you're putting as much effort into playing as I am into watching for at least you know, and that to me is very concerning, because like, okay, let's break it down. Like take away all the major macro problems take away all the you know, if Brad did this, if whatever who's responsible for us blowing leads in the fourth quarter all the time, has to be the coach has to be the coach. Like if that's consistent and you can't get your guy like if it happens once or twice fine. But you as the head coach, you've got to get that out of them. You got to do something like Eric Taylor Friday Night Lights, like make them run in the mud or something like do something to make them not blow leads anymore because that's mental weakness and it's your job to get their, their head straight. You know what I mean? That's your main gig as a head coach. So

Rob Kelly: 24:05

only in basketball, would it not be the head coach's fault? You know what I mean? Like you look at any other, you look at any of it, Brad Stevens was an NFL coach. And this is what consistently happened. Like we blew, you know, we were in the Eastern Conference, or the AFC Championship game, bro, it would be he'd be on the hot seat at the end of last season. And then by game 30 if it was still was happening, he'd be gone. And you know, it's

Dave Clarke: 24:32

I agree that has is the first things that people look at and like Brad's good at this stuff. Is are usually is good at this stuff is like inbounds plays, you know? Yeah. Yeah. They're just like, oh, look at then he's getting himself under even more pressure, because his rotation choices are trashed this season. Like the amount of minutes that some people are playing. It's just like, dude, he's not shooting his way into the game, you know, and he does that, too. That has to be a brand decision where it's like, do just keep shooting, you'll get into it. You'll get into your rhythm. It's like no, don't just keep shooting unless your name is Jason Tatum. Or Jalen Brown. Don't just keep shooting until you get to your rhythm. Marcus, stop shooting the basketball brand needs to say that to him. And he needs to listen to him. Sometimes you know what I mean? And it's just like, do they respect him? Do they respect him?

Rob Kelly: 25:13

That's what that's my problem. That's I don't think they do. I honestly don't think they do. And

Dave Clarke: 25:17

remember when we're remembering Jalen and Mark has gotten that fight after that one playoff loss. Yeah. Two questions. One Why is that happening? in the locker room? And to why do we know about it? There's just so many if it's not

Rob Kelly: 25:30

alright, if this isn't Brad Stevens and like, Mike, honestly, I credit you for putting this thought in my head. because ever since you said that to me, man, that thought entered my brain. And it's been eating away, like so many things that happen with this team. And I'm just like, dude, Brad. If this is any other person besides Brad Stevens, besides his basketball genius, besides this guy that we known for the past five years, who brought Butler to two straight Final Fours, who brought a team with Evan Turner, and Kelly olynyk, as your two best players to almost the Eastern Conference Finals? If that's not him, is he already gone? You know what I mean, with these things that he's doing and these decisions he's making? Maybe he might not already be gone. But would it even be a controversial decision to be talking about him? Because like, he just does the things he javante green, and who is yellow, trim out waters being in crunch time, I don't give a fuck, who's hurt. I really don't. Those two guys being in the last four minutes in the basketball game is just the one of the worst decisions I've ever seen in history, basketball,

Dave Clarke: 26:37

but also with guys like him with coaches like him, you need all buying, you need everybody buying in. And the thing is, like, I remember, bear with me for this comparison, okay, because it's a soccer comparison. But Liverpool had this coach, and he was a really good coach. His name was Brendan Rodgers. And he put together this team. And he would make these crazy substitutions and like in the middle of games, and he would put guys in different positions. And you'd be like, holy shit, it worked. He's like a mad scientist. Eventually, his downfall was that he thought to himself, I have to do it, it's up to me to fix this team. I'm going to make these changes, I'm going to do these weird things. I'm going to make all these little like tactical genius adjustments because he started to believe his own myth. And then it was like, okay, it's not working. Once it started to not work. It came down, like like Jenga, it was it's happened so quickly, because it becomes this perfect storm of you, you're trying everything then because you're, it's like you can't stop the bleeding and more mistakes and then lose the buy in. And once you lose the buy in from your players, as if they could be you have no idea if the players are good or not at that point, because they're not participating in the system correctly being utilized correctly. And they're not trying as hard as they can be mentally, they're all they want. They can pump themselves up everybody subconsciously, if they don't believe in the system, that thoughts gotten into their head. They're just not going to, they're not going to commit to it as hard.

Michael Marcangelo: 27:58

And sorry, but for me, I think it crept into their head maybe a little bit before that Miami series last season. But if it if now it's their right, because they held the lead in the fourth quarter, every single game, and they lost that series. And they didn't address that in the offseason, because they're still doing it now. So we have to all world talented players and Tatum and brown, and no matter what, if they're up by 10, in the fourth quarter, as a fan, and I go, I gotta imagine, as a player, you don't know if that lead is secure. And that's a problem, which is this sign.

Dave Clarke: 28:32

Yeah, she's the son of a losing team. And to extend to extend the story of what I was just saying earlier, that's the kind of stuff you used to see in that Liverpool team, you would see them blow leads, you would see and then it was it would, if they let it give up a goal. It would ransack the entire team, their whole heads would drop everything. The guy who came in to replace this guy came in as a man manager as a motivator that he ended up being the best coach we've had in the last 20 years. And he was everything he came in. And he just he took all the players that were already there. And he was like, I love this squat. This is great. You guys are gonna do awesome. And then when they screwed up, he screamed at them. And like on the field, you could see it, you know, and he was like, Come on, get your focus shit together and had every player playing at their absolute peak, you know, so maybe he wasn't regarded as a tactician, maybe like, whatever. But this is what we needed. You know, we needed the guy to come in and motivate the players that were already there. Even if that's a bridge manager, even if that's a bridge coach, we need someone to come in and figure out who's actually good. You know, who's who can actually play, go and get the guy used to coach the next go get David phys Dale to come in and just like kind of yell at everybody for a while and see what happens. You know what I mean? Like, I think he's a good coach, personally, but I don't think anyone's good on the Knicks. I don't care. I don't care who you are. They have been phil jackson didn't do well there. I know. He's the GM but still. Everybody sucks when they go to the Knicks,

Rob Kelly: 29:46

but we did that. Like it was a part time job though.

Dave Clarke: 29:48

I feel like it's faint. Yeah, he absolutely did. He was like full on like about to retire. He's like, bro, I'm just like, I don't worry.

Rob Kelly: 29:56

was a really Alice? Yeah, do it.

Dave Clarke: 29:59

He's like, Wait, are you coming to the office to film in Boca? I'm playing a few holes. I'll see you when I see it. No, you're absolutely right. But I think you go get David because it sounds to me the way you guys are talking the way that you're talking about me the way that we're talking in our chat the way that Ray Shawn has been like banging this Brad Stevens drum this entire season so far. It seems like just from the sample size that we maybe need some fresh blood in here. You know, it might just be in Might be already time, because we could at least salvage the season with some fun. We might not win a championship this year, but somebody might come in and get them playing in a way that's like entertaining to watch at least you know.

Rob Kelly: 30:34

So I feel like that's what's gonna so. Alright, so this has a lot I'm gonna I'm gonna relate this over to football and my pain I've been going through the last 20 years. It just feels a lot like Jason Garrett a little bit not as bad as Jason Garrett. Obviously not he's definitely

Dave Clarke: 30:47

a better coach pound for pound and Jason.

Rob Kelly: 30:50

Like the belief behind him and what they're gonna do I think this season they are gonna make that move. That's gonna be like Alright, listen, Brad. This is it. This is it man. Like we're giving you we're giving you these days if you don't when you're out. And like I felt that a few times with the Cowboys granted they kept them like seven years pass what I thought they were doing that but it just feels like that kind of season but that's a good move is to make that move.

Dave Clarke: 31:18

They're gonna be on the move as a franchise don't do Yeah, what you do is you go Okay, we still believe that there might be a ton of upside to you and we don't want to lose out on this bet where we you know Brad Stevens doctor basketball goes and then like, you know, goes over to, you know, replace Popovich at the Spurs and like wins a bunch of championships or some shit. You know, we don't want to look like idiots. So we want to be able to say, all right, like, Who do you want? You get to make all the choices like Who do you want? What movies do you want us to make? And you got to win with that and that's the agreement you say that to him? I agree Bobby, it's like this is it. This is the year when now or get the fuck out. And MIT next season, I'd be alright. If they were doing that. I would if that was next year. That's

Rob Kelly: 31:55

kind of what what we did when we traded for a Mario. That's what we did. Like there's a few trades along the lines that you're like, Okay, they're giving him everything he needs. Yeah, and then if things go the way they're supposed to, and we still fuck up.

Dave Clarke: 32:08

That's him. I feel like there's probably a market right now. Like, I feel like we could actually go get a decent head coach because if you look at this roster, you'd be like, yeah, I want to be the head coach the Celtics like they got Jalen brown and Jason Tatum I feel like I if you're a head coach if you are for just use the same example for if you are David phys Dale, and you're sitting at home right now watching the Celtics when they're on primetime. And they're not on primetime night but when they are and you turn around you go like oh, what are you doing? Why is he playing minutes? Like why is that the rotation what you have that guy if you're doing all the same stuff we're doing but you're also day of Israel? You know, you can coach it an NBA team? You'd be like, yeah, I can do better with these guys. For sure. I could, you know, you know, there's guys there is guys out there. You know, Jason Kidd, I don't think is working. Like that might be a thing. I'm just saying. There is some people out there to be cool to try something, you know, because we're not playing Brad Stevens basketball anymore. Even so, like what's the point?

Michael Marcangelo: 32:57

It's like, yeah, that they are where they should be for price even the basketball but as you guys have said, like they're just not trying anymore. They don't believe that they're in the right places. And at some point in time, like the onus needs to kind of fall on players to but the majority As for what I can see, it's his fault. It's Brad's fault. They either don't believe that what he's telling them to do, will will get a win.

Dave Clarke: 33:19

I'll say this though, just before you say that definitively. I will say one word to the fan base of the Celtics, who I know a lot of our listeners if not all of our listeners are their fan base. You're bad at being basketball fans sometimes when it comes to this stuff because just because we're saying that we like we might be Brad's fault and it might be like time for some fresh blood that is not the same as the people on Twitter who are like murder Brad Stevens in the

Rob Kelly: 33:48

Celtics, Twitter as a wild.

Dave Clarke: 33:51

Like, I'm pretty sure the Reddit got like shut down for like, like, I

Rob Kelly: 33:55

think it was in quarantine for a while or like, whatever they call it

Dave Clarke: 33:58

where like, it's Yes, it is quarantine. I think they might want to rebrand that. But yeah, but this is like, but it's like, okay, like, that doesn't mean that Brad Stevens is like a bad coach. Or if you believe something sort of like a bad person. I

Unknown: 34:09

don't know. He's fine.

Dave Clarke: 34:11

But I'll say this. I think if we do that, and we do bring somebody in. Let's give them a minute. You know, let's give them a minute to like, try some stuff and like implement some stuff. And let's just like accept that this. We're not gonna win championships this season. I'm sorry. I said that in the offseason because I you know, we knew we weren't gonna win this year. But maybe something fun could happen, you know, but that doesn't mean that we're like out on Brad Stevens. There's like plenty of scenarios where if they make some decent trades, if they like, you know, I do get your sandwich rhetoric though Bobby because I'm like Brad, can you just tell me just what you're gonna do? Because I don't know what you're gonna do. And I need you to tell me because I'm tuning in every night to watch this failing sitcom that you call a basketball team do we went viral the other day for being terrible? Like Did you see on like we're on the front page of Reddit for like that that sequence I forget what team we're playing but it was because it was just like blocking out but

Rob Kelly: 35:00

it was no nuggets. Yeah, it was the nuggets

Dave Clarke: 35:03

was terrible bass or just bad basketball and it's just like, Oh my God, why are we going viral for sucking right now like how bad it is it really this hasn't gotten this dark. We went seven and three to start the season off and we all said that's what we want it

Rob Kelly: 35:18

so so like before, I want to I want to do this because like you guys know him over. The positive, the resident positive Celtics fan.

Dave Clarke: 35:28

I mean, you just fired Brad Stevens. But yeah,

Rob Kelly: 35:30

I know well before, Louis I know cuz that's still what I'm feeling right now and I truly mean that it's frustrating but at the same time is like I don't want to say I understand but I get it because literally we were great until our star player went down with COVID ever since we lost Marcus where we great hate him. We were solid we were seven and three. We had a podcast me knew personally, where we were sitting here super pumped up about his team and the direction they were going and how they like Miami excited and then they immediately just went It was like the next day the Next

Unknown: 36:08

button down.

Rob Kelly: 36:11

But ever since then, it's just been like one after another like you made this reference on the Super Bowl. Show Notes on the Super Bowl show the quicksand we've been stuck in the quicksand ever since and it's just been one thing after the other after and there hasn't been a stop to it.

Dave Clarke: 36:27

We should be worth it when Tatum goes down we should get worse when he when he goes down.

Rob Kelly: 36:31

Not absolutely but we shouldn't that's a great we shouldn't be this bad. And and it shouldn't have gotten to the point where the last two straight games against six win teams. Once that happens. It's like, Oh, wait, what the fuck is happening?

Dave Clarke: 36:44

Take some professional pride. And when that second game for the love of God,

Rob Kelly: 36:48

I knew they were gonna I knew they were gonna lose that fucking. I knew they were gonna fucking lose that game. Your quicksand

Michael Marcangelo: 36:53

analogy just kind of loses me for what what we've seen so far in the Celtics? Because quicksand like, the harder you fight the further you fall,

Rob Kelly: 37:00

they're not fighting.

Michael Marcangelo: 37:01

They're not fighting, right? Like they're so for me. I mean, let's just close out. We're out on Brad Stevens half hour portion of the show. What do you think? Like, what is the move player only to get us you have it in the notes as over the top, I'm gonna say as little as a legitimate contender. There's Andre Drummond. There's Barnes. There's Griffin. And there's john Collins. Who do you want? And who do you think will actually get?

Dave Clarke: 37:24

I'm taking Collins out of that list on talent, but I don't think that's a good idea. Because I think we actually he would end up costing a lot more than he's worth. He just turned down a $90 million extension. We could get him with the Enos Kanter trade exception. Now basketball trading is like calculus, we could get well, we don't wouldn't need to use the 101 though. We can get in with it with the I understand. The smaller one is, which is better, but then he's gonna demand a lot more. So if we want him to stay long term, I think that might be out of our price range. But on that list, he's probably the only one that would make a real difference, because he's big, and he scores and we need a guy that can score when the other guys are in scoring. So

Rob Kelly: 38:03

So of the people I have listed the two Drummond and I think if we can get so if we can get Griffin on a bio and drama, absolutely. So tall and he can shoot. He's a three point shooter. Now. I don't know where the fuck came from. But he cannot. I feel like if we get him 16 minutes off the bench. It's better, bro. It's better than what we have coming off the bedroom right now. It's better than javante greenspon. That would

Unknown: 38:27

be that would feel like such an if it's a bio

Rob Kelly: 38:29

bio

Unknown: 38:30

project,

Rob Kelly: 38:31

if it's a PJ brown move where you're not giving an amendment. I know. But I'm just as better than what we got.

Dave Clarke: 38:39

I just hate fate. I hate failing men. Like him. And Tristan Thompson just ran out of the old folks. I

Rob Kelly: 38:45

was point like, what do you think? So these trade exceptions, they can really help you out? Because you won't have to give up as much as you normally would to like either salary or anything like that. What do you think about a guy like, I read this right, Tobias Harris? Yeah, I take some advice. Harris coming into this team. I feel Yeah, be on point because he's wrong. He plays defense he can shoot. And he's a guy that when Tatum and brown are off the floor, you can be like Tobias, go scores 10 points.

Dave Clarke: 39:16

I don't know. Are we really gonna get Tobias Harris though, like,

Rob Kelly: 39:19

I feel like that's a move that that might be a pipe dream just made it that's definitely a pipe dream. There's definitely a pipe dream. But I'm just saying that's the type of guy Harrison Barnes is the same type of guy. Those are the kind of guys that if we can bring them in. Those are the guys that are gonna make a difference on this team that like, they're I know, we don't need more wings. I remember all those years very drafted wing after wing. I was like, Yes,

Dave Clarke: 39:41

we hit on two witnesses.

Rob Kelly: 39:43

We needed another one. We need another one. We need another guys that can come in and play the four play the three and score some points when Tatum and brown are on the court or at least be that third legitimate scoring option that he can create his own shot.

Dave Clarke: 39:57

All right, if we're doing pipe dream picks though if we really can like extend like what we really want. I want Bradley Beal I want Bradley Beal go and trade everyone.

Rob Kelly: 40:05

Again, I'm with

Dave Clarke: 40:06

that man Dan, Danny and just card for Bradley Beal because him the kind of player that he is and the stuff that he does with that's a big three, that's a legitimate Big Three if you can keep Canva great. If not, that's fine too. No pressure was you know you get rid of Kava because prejudice is a perfect place. guard for those three because you got Peyton being who he is. And you have bill is the shooting guard and he's gonna be Bradley Beal and then you have our year two wings, you what you can do in that situation is you can say our one, two and three and I don't mean positions. I mean our three best guys are this good. Four or five and six are a drop off. But you know, six, seven and eight are like one of the better six, seven and eights on a roster rotation at that point you can put together smart veteran minimums and like use the trade exceptions intelligently. You can trade everybody it's just like, do it. I mean, just be like yo just call up the wizards and be like Yo, do you see Robert Williams? Do you see Robert Williams like he's got dude he looked at his ceiling I'm trading you his ceiling stone his rookie contract Come on. Rob Williams is gonna he's gonna do great we haven't Russell Westbrook Think about it. He's gonna go up if you give us fucking Bradley Beal give give us Bradley Beal make it happen because at least they'd be fun to watch.

Rob Kelly: 41:21

By the by the way they might give us Bradley bill if we accept to take Russell Westbrook.

Unknown: 41:25

I know

Michael Marcangelo: 41:31

you wouldn't do it. No, God. No.

Dave Clarke: 41:33

I mean, I get what you get bill to I love Bradley Beal as much as I hate Russell was hurt. So it's a very strange situation for me. I don't hate Russell Westbrook. I just would hate him for the Celtics. And he's just not the guy anymore. And even when he was the guy, he couldn't win. So I know

Michael Marcangelo: 41:51

Can we talk about kemba? Can we because I feel I think like yeah, that the knee injury was weird. It's a weird you coined it like when you said that it's a weird knee injury, right? We don't really know. Just the

Dave Clarke: 42:04

worst kind because then you never get any info on like, if he's gonna be okay. I have nothing to compare it to. It's awful.

Michael Marcangelo: 42:10

So it's an eye test. I will just use the eye test. He's cutting fine. He's driving fine. He just can't shoot. Like I don't know what that like what happened to him.

Dave Clarke: 42:20

I think he is behind the I think he's I think he's a half a second behind on his cuts. And he's a he's a half a second behind on his rotations and like, it reminds me strangely and not to like circle this around to blame Brad Stevens for this, again, reminds me of how Hayward came back where he was just like, timid, and a little slow. And, like just a little, like kind of timid around the basket and like not making his cuts like on that bad ankle as like hard as he was. And maybe it's because Brad was like, hey, Don't be a pussy. Like make the cuts harder. Like Come on. You need to do that. But like maybe he encourages them to you know, take it a little easy on the urge to say yeah, we brands a little like skittish when it comes to that stuff. Because like Hayward went down to New Orleans and he's doing great. So I mean, Charlotte, he's doing great, whatever team that's

Unknown: 43:10

great. Yeah, shot, but

Dave Clarke: 43:13

it's just like,

Rob Kelly: 43:13

I mean, I agree that it is it does seem like it's a little bit of that because like it's a you're right Mike where it's like once he makes the decision to cut or once he makes the decision to do whatever he's doing. He looks like the old camera, but it's just what used to be different about Canva there you didn't see that split second decision of I need to cut this where'd he do that? He just fucking did it.

Dave Clarke: 43:37

And now not space right there and I think he's losing some space from his guys. I feel like people can follow him a little bit. But also, he got beat up in the playoffs last year. It would that say, you know, trying to cut like, why do we bring him back was the knee Okay, I got to know. I got to know Canva you know, like I

Rob Kelly: 43:54

don't what's crazy is like you guys remember halfway through the season last year with how high we were on Canva. And like this dude wasn't just an all star. He was a no brainer starter in the all star game last year like he was one of the best 10 players in the NBA for the first 50 games of last season. And then some and dude it's not even close maybe it's I feel like we kind of I hate to make making comparisons for blackfield we RG three of them. Were like we brought him back for that playoff run last year and like I just don't think he was ready.

Dave Clarke: 44:32

That hindsight is 2020 though because we were all sitting here saying this is our chance to win a championship because it's such a weird season and we have to go for it we have to try like this the east is like looking so soft. We should have gotten past Miami you

Rob Kelly: 44:43

know who knew a year after we made that camera for Terry trade that Terry would be by far and away is a better asset right now in the NBA than kemba Walker.

Dave Clarke: 44:51

Okay, still for again photography in terms of stock. I'd much rather be holding kemba Walker stock then Terry rozier stock pretty close.

Rob Kelly: 44:58

It's pretty close though.

Dave Clarke: 44:59

It's closer than it was but it's not fucking close. You'd rather have your what you're saying is bring back Terry rozier No, you don't remember his game. He's saying that I have a Terry rozier shirt. I really liked Terry. You I liked him for that one series, where it was him versus Bledsoe and he kind of won because I was but I was saying Bledsoe suck this and that entire time and it was really great that Terry rozier proved him wrong. Cuz he was like, Who's Terry rozier whatever.

Rob Kelly: 45:26

He was good for the first six games against the Cavs until game seven. When I went, yeah, I was at that game. And I've never seen I've never seen someone shoot the basketball worse than he'd been so bad. I was sitting right there trying

Dave Clarke: 45:41

to help us when they were like, here's all these free overall shots. It was in tech dude, every

Rob Kelly: 45:45

time the ball left Terry's hand, like the entire crowd was ready to do a rock. But as soon as it left his fingertips the entire crowd. Oh,

Unknown: 45:53

yeah, it was. It was it was bad.

Michael Marcangelo: 45:56

It was really bad. I feel like we've been on character. uncharacteristically down on the Celtics. So I think when we talk about the one bright spot, right, I have I'm going to read it as written Bobby. So you welcome pain, quote, fast. Pa k. p. Rabbit Pritchard, highest ceiling of any player we've drafted since Tatum and brown. Is that true?

Dave Clarke: 46:20

Yeah, high ceiling.

Rob Kelly: 46:21

I have any

Dave Clarke: 46:23

time Lord the Time Lord ceilings, my favorite ceiling. It's like my Sistine Chapel right now. So

Rob Kelly: 46:28

yeah. Okay, I would put them so it kind of goes down to the neck so no time or to have the next bullet here. Do you guys see the nickname of those two? is fast p time.

Unknown: 46:40

Yeah, I hate it.

Rob Kelly: 46:41

What was it? But so? No, I just so that's

Dave Clarke: 46:48

saying that's your girlfriend Bobby fast. pp time

Rob Kelly: 46:50

fast. Yes, quick, 90 seconds. I feel like that's a positive and negative. I met that when I wrote it. Because like, I love Payton Pritchard. And we know me such a level of plays that I didn't think we were gonna see out of him this year. I think he has. I know. I want to get excited. I don't think he's gonna win Rookie of the Year because it's not gonna happen. ball ball and balls winning Rookie of the Year. There's no doubt about that. Well, no ball is

Unknown: 47:17

really good about

Michael Marcangelo: 47:20

unreal.

Rob Kelly: 47:21

So over here, I do think he has a legit shot at rookie first team. If he keeps playing like he does and playing significant minutes. You'll have those guys that you're gonna have Anthony Edwards, you're gonna have lamella ball. You're gonna have fucking Wiseman and Golden State. And Peyton pressure is going to be that guy cuz you're gonna play significant minutes of this team if he stays on the team.

Dave Clarke: 47:41

I think premium pitchers really good. Like I'm really glad that he's rookie first team know? Sure, but we still fucked up our draft if nice Smith sucks. Yeah, he was supposed to come in and be this like, well,

Rob Kelly: 47:54

we pay them over 50 grand

Dave Clarke: 47:56

rip. Yeah, I mean, it's like, it looked like the pic at the time, though. Like, I'm not gonna say that we didn't think was a good pic. Because we needed that like, grip and rip, you know, coming around the screen like three point shooter. And he's just not that like, maybe he is but the rest of his game is so underdeveloped that like, you can't even really see him get into those positions. And like, he's not confident shooting the ball is weird and awful. And it's like every time I look at Payton Pritchard, I think of that, you know, I think about how we had two first round draft picks, and we didn't capitalize on him. And I told you guys, that we shouldn't be drafting those pigs because we needed guys with the value of those pigs to change our team and bring it up onto the next level. And it's great to have Payton Pritchard, but he just to me represents a pig that we didn't get most value for money for still. Maybe he won't eventually, but age wise is it's like he's a freshman when Tatum and brown are super seniors now. And it's like, you know, I need I need someone now to win with them now, so they don't go anywhere. So I'm looking at Payton Pritchard, like No, dude, like, you can have him too. I mean, like,

Michael Marcangelo: 48:58

Bobby, you are really high on the guy. I mean, I listen, I think he does. Like, it's noticeably different. When he's on the floor, I'll give you that, right? Like he's shooting almost 50% field goal. He's shooting 43 or 42 and a half percent from three. But it's eight points a game, right, it's just under eight points game we need. Another

Dave Clarke: 49:15

way to look at it too, is he's basically being asked to do what Gordon Hayward was being asked to do. And he's not as good as Gordon Hayward. So it's like, yeah, you know, and it's just like the suite downgraded at that at those minutes. You know, and there's just a lot of downside to, and this is what I keep saying, you know, it's different in text. I know, because you're not being as descriptive. But I'm not saying that paint. pritchards not good. And it's exciting to have them. But we've had a lot of years of, Oh, look, this young players going to be pretty good. It's like, it's not time for that anymore. You know, like, it's time to it's time to win now. And like he's, he can be a great rotation guy. And like, I think he could be a great right now. He would be the he has to be the seventh best guy in a championship team. Not like the third or fourth. Yeah, you know, second seventh is like high meat, you know, right there seventh or eighth. He can't even really be your sixth man. If you're trying to

Rob Kelly: 50:04

maybe he's a hero. He needs to be heard for the heat last year,

Dave Clarke: 50:08

right? Well, he was dropping, he was dropping 40 points on us in the playoffs and he's not going to do that. Like he's not

Rob Kelly: 50:15

he's not and I agree that like so if you look back at saying we weren't gonna miss Gordon Hayward and what we actually did to replace his production His minutes on this team.

Dave Clarke: 50:27

Well, we thought kemba Walker was going to play me.

Rob Kelly: 50:29

I know but we tried. We tried to fill that spot with Jeff Teague, atrocious, semi ojeleye and Peyton pressure

Dave Clarke: 50:37

that's where Yeah, we try to fill it by committee which is not

Rob Kelly: 50:40

it's not the way it is by committee is never going to work. And I agree with you where, you know, I was with you when you said it is like draft picks, never have as much value once I've taken, which is why those picks should have been traded. I completely agree that like if we traded those picks, plus Gordon Hayward or whatever, and we brought into Myles Derman and Doug McDermott, or Myles Dermot Myles Turner and Doug McDermott, we're looking at a completely different team. And it's a team that's up actually with the bucks and the Nets rather than Yeah,

Dave Clarke: 51:10

totally. And this is where I thought we were gonna get Myles Turner that those like we were all talking to each other. We were on some sort of show or something. And it came out as a rumor. And it lasted about six minutes and Joe was like, Yeah, dude, Danny's gonna fuck this up. He's gonna ask for too much, dude. And I read it and I was like, and I started I was like, shut up, Joe. Shut up. We're gonna get we're gonna get him. We're gonna get him we're gonna get up. And I was like, because I just was seeing that, that Celtics team in my head. And the next day I work wanted to cry because Joe was right. I didn't want to do right. But Danny did squeeze that deal too hard.

Rob Kelly: 51:46

I was in the drive thru. Drive Thru at a Dunkin Donuts when I got the notification. I'll never forget it

Dave Clarke: 51:52

because I was so pissed. And I was like, Oh my god, I can't believe it. We really did fuck this up. I was like, I would have given them so much more than they were even asking for Turner. And then like the next day, rayshawn was like, Hey, we got Tristan Thompson. That's a good pickup. And I was like, I what I can't feel like that's a good pickup. I was devastated that we didn't get Turner. He was even if he wasn't going to be he was going to be the answer to all our problems, because I've been banging the drum of needing that kind of rim play for so long. Because it was my little secret devils handshake with Brad Stevens where I was saying, you'd use him though, wouldn't you? He's a big tall guy, but you'd fucking use them. You'd have to, because he can play. He's what Robert, what we're all hoping Robert, Robert Williams is going to be and we could have them now. You know, and it would have been so amazing. But it didn't work out that way. And now we're 500 team and we're about to lose the Atlanta Hawks.

Michael Marcangelo: 52:42

Yeah, I was gonna say that as a, you know, newly minted, you know, 14 and 14 team, you know, they're in fourth. Right? So does that mean that they are that we're overreacting? Or, or the east is just really that bad right now?

Dave Clarke: 52:57

I think whoever whoever comes out east is gonna get whacked by the Lakers again.

Rob Kelly: 53:01

It depends that that depends on ad. But sure, but I'm gonna kill you right now.

Dave Clarke: 53:07

I'll put it to you this way it? Oh, yeah. Whoever comes out of the East is gonna get waxed by whoever comes out of the West. How about that? Yeah. And that includes us, which on one hand is like okay, maybe it's not so bad. And we're gonna go get smacked in the finals. On the other hand, right? Oh, cool. It's the week as these has been in a while the box look weird. The Nets haven't quite gel yet. Although they will, the things the nets are gonna figure it out and like, they're gonna get really consistent, and they're gonna get consistent just in time. And then what I said was gonna happen will happen, and they will fucking beat everybody. Because they have three unbelievable players, I still think they're gonna lose whoever comes out of the West, because I just think it's a stronger conference. But it's just a bummer to suck right now, because it's had an opportunity. And rayshawn said it very aggressively last season when we went into the playoffs, and we fucked up our best chance in the last decade to win, at least when an Eastern Conference Finals. I don't think we would have been the Lakers in the finals. But you know, it's just it feels like we're letting something slip here. And I think something needs to be done. And I think there's a lot of inaction. And I think that that's been frustrating because we're not hearing anything. The rumors are a little underwhelming, and I think

Unknown: 54:12

we'll drop in with that would be like in theory.

Dave Clarke: 54:16

What is Brad Stevens do with Andre drum? What does he do with it? He doesn't. He looks at Andres, German, like they just gave him he's a German in World War Two. And they're, they're asking them to drive an American tank and all he knows is the Panzer he does only

Rob Kelly: 54:31

pigment he's ever had success with his Kelly olynyk. And that's because Kelly Lennox, an athletic

Dave Clarke: 54:38

pianist is five to play in a very specific way. And if he asked Andre Drummond to play that way, I would have a very bad time watching something even worse, right now. And I'm still gonna watch him. You know, I mean, it's

Rob Kelly: 54:49

so to think about the what's go look at this upcoming schedule, man. And it scares me. It really does. I put it here for a reason. Because like, you look at these games, like the games that we get up for are the games against the nuggets. The games we lose games to is against the Hawks against a struggling team, like the Mavericks against the wizards. You know what I mean? And I think we beat the clippers. I think by the end of this month, we see a move because I think Danny's gonna be forced to do it. Because you look at the schedule, and I don't see them showing up to be the team that they can be Over this next couple of weeks, I know Rachel was like we need to win out over the schedule is like, not gonna fucking happen, man. It just look. They're so predictable. I want money on how predictable they were last night, because they were plus 300 in Denver. And it looks like they're gonna win this game. This is a good team. They're in they're underdogs at home against this team. They're not expected to win. They need to win. And they're going to win this game. And they want.

Michael Marcangelo: 55:53

I mean, there's a real shot. There's a real shot that they go three and five of this next game stretch. Absolutely.

Rob Kelly: 55:59

Yep, absolutely. Well, something's

Dave Clarke: 56:01

obviously very wrong in a locker room.

Rob Kelly: 56:03

I don't chemistry stuff.

Michael Marcangelo: 56:05

Yeah, but let's try. Let's just try for the last couple of minutes of tonight. What if, after this eight game stretch, they come out at six and two? How do you feel about them? Like, are you remarkably different about your feelings towards the Celtics? If they go into this, they came stretching, they come in at six and two? Depends what

Rob Kelly: 56:23

that six and two looks like. If it's the second two, if it's a six, and two, where you see semi, you see ties, you see will ties comes back. You see these guys that are role players make a real impact on the game. Yeah, it's a different story. But if you win because Tatum and brown scored 35 points each night and it's like, they have to win by themselves. You got to get these guys help. If those three or four guys aren't making a serious impact on the game, then like, I don't think this section two matters that much. To me. It's the eye test. You

Michael Marcangelo: 56:58

know what I would have what I would say to that though, is like you say that the Lakers are the biggest threat in the West because of LeBron and AD. If if those two go off, so why is it? Why do we Why would you be taking away credit if we go six and two, because our two superstars were superstars?

Rob Kelly: 57:14

Because we don't have mantras. Harel, denish rotor. Yeah, they just have a better team than we did. They're so deep. It's when you compare their six to our six. We're literally looking at an all star center versus a rookie.

Michael Marcangelo: 57:26

I guess my question is like, if

Dave Clarke: 57:29

everybody wanted to go play with LeBron,

Rob Kelly: 57:31

oh, yeah. I mean, that's unfair.

Michael Marcangelo: 57:32

If we look down upon the fact that our two superstars carry our team two wins. And that is a bad thing. Because nobody else shows up there. What are we doing? I mean, because I think that you have to have, you have to have you have to have faith to guys. Like we've always talked about two guys on your team can win. Can you win a game? If they're on? If this happens over a stretch of time? And we know it can't happen for every game? Sure. But Wouldn't you love at the end of this next eight games? Going into the all star break? You say listen, we went six and two because of those two. So now we know that they now we know that they're there. They're sick of losing. They're sick of what they've been doing over the last couple of months. Now let's give them the help. Yeah, agreed.

Rob Kelly: 58:09

Yeah. 100% because you never win. So yes, it'd be awesome. If those two go off because then that brings you to a different level, but you're never gonna win a championship or contemporary championship unless you have those second level guys.

Unknown: 58:23

That's what it means. Like because you look

Rob Kelly: 58:25

at all the champ you look at the Celtics championships, we have PJ brown James Posey Eddie house, like those type of guys are who were brought to that. Well,

Dave Clarke: 58:34

I don't know about the I don't know about that. I think like to answer your earlier question like the, the idea of, if we go six and two, or six, and three, or whatever, over the next 10 or 11 games, we still had this skid. So there's still something wrong, if that makes sense. If you had a team that's like a proven winning team, and they have a skate in the regular season, then you can go Well, that doesn't matter. They just got back to the way that they play like, this doesn't feel like that. To me, this feels like there's something fundamentally wrong even if we do win out, then there's still things that need to get fixed. And that stuff is going to come back to haunt us later. And I think is Celtics fans were a little guilty of doing what Bobby just did, which is that and I do a two which is the thing of like hobble member like Posey and Poe, and we needed those guys. It's like, Yeah, well, not as much as we needed. Paul Pierce and Kevin Garnett and Ray Allen though and like, but without those guys making a real impact, though. Sure. Totally. And I'm not taking anything away. I know. I wouldn't go down to Boston and say that like Leon Poe's not God's gift, okay. I know what crowd I was on to what I what I'm saying. And I think that to listen, I'm a Celtics fan. But you know, and I'm from Massachusetts. We on Paul was on this team, man. It'd be I know. It's every drunk guy in Boston right now. Leon po I know. But y'all are guilty of Leon polarizing. Everybody. Like if we traded Marcus smart. It really wouldn't be the end of the world. You know? He's a good defensive guard. So was Avery Bradley, what do people do? They Leon pode they Leon polarised Avery Bradley. They were like how can you get rid of Avery Bradley? He's one of the best one on one defenders in the NBA. Didn't matter at all. Because it's fucking basketball. It's not the New England Patriots. It's not like oh, I don't know Turner has

Rob Kelly: 1:00:22

heart. Evan Turner has looks good. He Looks good

Dave Clarke: 1:00:24

at that said six strong safety he might come off the practice squad and fill this thing. No, it's basketball three best guys. Three best guys. Who are your three best guys? Why do we suck right now because one of our three best guys is playing well, one of us one of them came back from COVID and sucked. And one of them hasn't been right since his knee got fucked up. It's that's why. So go trade everybody else and get it get a better third best guide and kemba Walker. And then we'll be back. We'll be back on track. In my opinion, I think it's like Atkins razor, the simplest solution is often the one that's correct. And I think it's just that like, our three best guys. You know, kemba Walker is one of them. He's not the same. And like that's just part of it, you know, and yet it's true that the guys coming in to try and take the water off of Canva and Jason and take the pressure off them also weren't good enough. And that's you know, that's a factor and that's a problem. And we need they need those guys need time to like bed back in and just be able to kind of go in and shoot the ball a few times not to run super hard and run a bunch of plays. But in the especially the regular season especially on road trips, you know all that's true. But like if cameras camera right now we're not having this conversation. If Jason's Jason right now we're not having these conversations. I hope they come back and start playing well, there was Brad Stevens gonna get fired.

Rob Kelly: 1:01:41

So Mike, to go back to what you were saying earlier, and I guess we are going to do the whole show on the Celtics, which is fucking awesome. So when you go back to what you're saying about the Eastern Conference is like, I know that they're playing like shit right now. But this is the year and the time to be trying to figure it out at this point as far into the season, because you asked for 500 at this point, and we're still lined up with a playoff matchup with the Pacers who I think we beat in a seven game series. You know what I mean? We're not 11 and 16. We're 500 we're in the playoffs. And we're only a few games back of those top tier teams in the east. So I do think it is just one move away from being that top tier team again, it's just a matter of if which all the rumblings are showing they're going to make a move

Michael Marcangelo: 1:02:28

or the rumblings always show that always and they never make it ever and mid season they never do it. I know I have my Miami Heat you know footie pajamas on but here's what I'm going to here's what I'll say we've seen the heat when the right we see it like we've seen their ceiling and it just happens to be a little bit higher than ours. So I I would be more confident in the Miami Heat in a seven game series against Indiana Pacers and right now as currently constituted the Boston Celtics just based on the buy in because you know that the heater trying like weather like Butler was down, but I think they're still gonna figure it out. Whatever. I think they believe in what Spencer does. There's a fundamental belief you don't have that right now. Celtics

Dave Clarke: 1:03:10

so do you think maybe that you think maybe there's I mean, this would be great if this was true and but it might feel like wishful thinking but what you're saying about the heat and what the Celtics are looking like like they were the Eastern Conference finalists like last season, you know, like these are the two teams that play each other nice your conference finals? Are is it just a weird year? You know, is it just we it's just is nobody just is nobody motivated? is nobody interested in playing their best basketball right now is does it feel like maybe we shouldn't they don't want to be there. You know, like the bubble was a weird experience. And now it's like, Oh, we got to get on the road during COVID. There's no fans and we don't have any energy. And some teams are more energy based than others. And some teams are more home crowd based than others. And I know the Celtics are. And I know the heat kind of are and it's like, you know, maybe it's just a weird fucking year and like we get back to business as usual. Is that by Brad anytime?

Michael Marcangelo: 1:04:01

I don't know. Maybe because it to me as a fan. It felt like the bubble was different, right? Like, we were clamoring for sports as fans for something. And they came back and there was like, this thing that were what they came back.

Dave Clarke: 1:04:13

It was an event.

Michael Marcangelo: 1:04:14

Yeah, it's some sense of normalcy. They proved the point they could do it. What's their point now? Yes, they can travel to an empty arena

Dave Clarke: 1:04:22

subject to like the rumblings about the all star game. You know, like LeBron was grumbling about doing an all star game, and a few people are calling it stupid, and it is stupid. Like it is stupid to do an all star game right now. And I love pageantry of any kind. And like, I love the all star game, and I think it's awesome. And I just think right now it's like, what's it's gonna be weird. You know? It's gonna be weird. And it's just so unnecessary, like you said, and how are you going to shave 10 games off the season and have an all star game? Yeah. It's just such a strange move. And that's, that lack of energy might be factoring in like some teams just get more hit by it than others. And to go back to what you just said, I

Rob Kelly: 1:05:02

know I mentioned this on the last Celtics podcast we did but the Celtics have been statistically the most affected team by this weird COVID injury plague season that we've been having

Michael Marcangelo: 1:05:13

some coaching overcomes that

Rob Kelly: 1:05:15

I that's why we spent 45 minutes on Brad Stevens and even if he should be fired, remind everyone if you missed that, but now

Dave Clarke: 1:05:22

I don't know if he should like I kind of feel like I Talked myself into it at the start of the theme. And I'm thinking like, I don't know, can anyone really be judged that harshly on this season? Like, what's the percent of your season? The percentage of their games, they've had the most away games compared to their home games of any team in the NBA? They're seven and four at home and seven and nine away. I'm so on the road right now.

Rob Kelly: 1:05:41

Exactly. I mean, like, that's what I mean, like, like you said, like, we went through this whole podcast, this whole hour of like, we're dissecting this team, all the things wrong with them everything that could possibly go wrong for the rest of the season, Brad could get fired everything like that. But you're right. It's like sometimes the simplest solution is the correct solution is like, we're not after everything. We've said, we're not that far out of it. So I really do think it is like if we bring in that right piece. This team could compete in this Eastern Conference. And there's no doubt about that. It's just a matter of a if we bring that in, and it doesn't happen. Brad's ass is definitely on the chopping block. And be, are we gonna do that? And if we don't, then what happens

Michael Marcangelo: 1:06:29

from listening to YouTube, because you too, are much more eloquent basketball mind than I am. I know that. And it's, I love doing shows with you guys about this. For me, knowing how weird of a year it is, and how far or how close we probably still are to being that good of a team. But feeling how far away it feels. It's a coaching thing, dude, it comes back to it, and I'm a bad guy. But it has like, there has to be a run, there has to be at some point time this year, where they that he either coaches his ass off and wins games because he's that good. or his team buys in and wins games for him. If neither of those two things happen, he cannot be the guy to win here. Moving forward. I mean, that's just how I feel.

Dave Clarke: 1:07:15

Okay, what about this? Check this out for Sorry, I have not done the NBA trade calculus on this and like gone on the internet and had the internet telling me it works. So we got that training session. So

Rob Kelly: 1:07:26

like that

Dave Clarke: 1:07:26

bonus? Yeah, sure. Yeah, well inside of my ass, go to the wizards and and say, We want Bradley bill. We're not gonna take Russell Westbrook from you. But what we will give you is Brad Stevens. Because their coach is gonna get fired soon because he's not good. And they need a new coach. Because he's the work because what they need in there is defense. And it's just like, come on. Look at what Brad Look what Brad Stevens. I know at one point I tried to trade Jason Tatum on this show. Like, and like that haunted me for a while. I was just trying to rile everybody up, but I mean, you gotta still own it for me.

Michael Marcangelo: 1:08:02

Like if you're gonna trade Brad, you may as well get Russell because Russell Westbrook does not fit the current bath Boston Celtics scheme of basketball, but that's because Brad's a coach.

Dave Clarke: 1:08:10

No, he doesn't fit the any championship team

Rob Kelly: 1:08:15

westberg accepted. I was sitting with Canva multiplied by 10. No way. No, I

Dave Clarke: 1:08:20

don't even want to go to the gym anymore. Well, I'm not bringing you guys into the office because I feel like we're gonna go we're gonna walk away with fucking Russell

Rob Kelly: 1:08:27

Westbrook if I'm waiting there with you.

Unknown: 1:08:30

Oh, my God, we have gone a little bit over on this Uber positive super happy

Rob Kelly: 1:08:35

podcast. runs deep.

Michael Marcangelo: 1:08:37

Are there any? Is there anything that you want to say that you haven't? And in your final in your final minute, Bobby?

Rob Kelly: 1:08:43

No. I mean, I think we pretty much covered everything with the Celtics, the only thing I want to cover is I do want to touch on right now. So I think it's tomorrow. I don't know if it's tonight or tomorrow. But LA and Brooklyn play their first game against each other since they both form these super teams. And I'm so excited for it. I'm excited for Twitter during I'm excited to watch the game. I'm excited for so many aspects of this game is like an event. Yeah, yeah. Well, what I love most about it is if you look at both of these teams, no matter who wins, the other one is gonna blame the COVID season. And the other one's gonna thanks to the best team in the NBA and I just can't wait for that Twitter battle then. Like I can't wait to read

Dave Clarke: 1:09:19

a lot of really violent. Oh, it's gonna be it's gonna be great.

Rob Kelly: 1:09:23

It's gonna be awesome. So I'm excited for that. The other thing is, I just want to touch I know we talked about it last time with Bron James. Man, I know that I just sit here rave about these dude. But did you guys see the other night where he just he didn't even need to. He just casually pulled up from half court for three pointer.

Dave Clarke: 1:09:43

I liked his I liked his not celebrating the double o t better. What he was just like I was tired. I wanted to go.

Rob Kelly: 1:09:50

Unbelievable. That's what I mean. His game is to another level. And if a DS Achilles is okay, it doesn't matter. Everything that we just talked about for the last hour, it doesn't matter. Because no one can

Dave Clarke: 1:10:03

break down the whole second house of cards. Bobby.

Rob Kelly: 1:10:06

If ABC Kelly's okay and hands up housing the playoffs. There's not a goddamn team in the East that can compete with them. They're so good.

Unknown: 1:10:14

I've been banging on the Brooklyn drum for a while because,

Rob Kelly: 1:10:18

man, he's so unbelievable. Every time I watch another soundbite or a highlight of LeBron James, I am brought to another level of Holy shit, you know, ever just like what the fuck? Why am I even watching anymore? It's I mean, it's

Dave Clarke: 1:10:33

one it's actually one of the biggest travesties in sports. If you look at it from a neutral point of view nowadays in the West, even though he plays for the Lakers, when he's in these, there was no convincing me I'm saying anything positive about LeBron James, but when you look at the amount of years, he should have won the MVP and he didn't it's like, such a fucking travesty, you know, because he should have that on his resume. And he like doesn't know and it's this weird LeBron fatigue that people get because he's so good and he's been so good for so long that people kind of just go like yeah, I mean obviously the bronze great but have you seen this guy over here you know, and it's like what's the new what's the new hot ticket you know who's the new hot girl in town and you can rant and rave about like Yanis audits akufo and you know people really high on Joe bead for a while and like this guy loot well I do love Luca but he needs to round up such as here basketball player. Okay, yeah, let's not do racist racist Celtics Twitter. Like Luca Richard like you guys you know they're like your first guys in the gym you know? Okay it's just because we all know old racist Boston guys that like actually,

Rob Kelly: 1:11:42

Luca was on the Celtics bro. buco was on the Celtics let me fucking tell you guys let me

Dave Clarke: 1:11:47

tell you Celtics my dream Celtics dawn Luca Payton Pritchard

Rob Kelly: 1:11:55

Payton Pritchard guy

Dave Clarke: 1:11:56

but but yeah, I mean, no matter what happens no matter who the hot commodity is in the week, LeBron James is definitely like always still the best. And it sucks because he plays to the Lakers now and I hate the Lakers and Celtics aren't good and the Lakers are and that's really not not the reality I want to wake up to every day.

Michael Marcangelo: 1:12:15

Well, I think that's the most appropriate way to end this show. So Dave Clark real BK Bob Kelly. Larry Bird

Dave Clarke: 1:12:22

was

Rob Kelly: 1:12:23

thank you so much for joining us for this episode air fuckin passionate guys appear fucking pasa.

Unknown: 1:12:29

Just shut us down.

Michael Marcangelo: 1:12:33

Thanks for joining us. For this episode of this point. I'll talk to you. We'll talk to you later.